The City is set to put out an RFP to redevelop the old City Jail, which has sat vacant for some time.

The new Municipal Courts building will open this summer and thus the old courts and police station immediately east of the jail will be demolished, more or less completely the civic redevelopment work in the immediate area.

The property is just south of another city-owned parcel that is also soon to go out for RFP, vacant land at 4th and Shartel.

Proposals are due September 26th.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail061017.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail061017b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail061017c.jpg


http://newsok.com/development-proposals-sought-for-former-oklahoma-city-city-jail/article/5552331

I. THE SOLICITATION
The City of Oklahoma City, hereinafter referred to as the City, is soliciting proposals for
redevelopment, by purchase or lease, of the Old City Jail Facility at 200 N. Shartel
Avenue in Oklahoma City. The City has completed construction of a new Police
Headquarters and is currently constructing a new Municipal Court facility. The Old Jail is
located adjacent to the existing Police/Courts facility, which will be demolished. The City
invites consideration by interested parties for reuse of the Old Jail in a manner
complementary to these other construction projects, and to the broader redevelopment of
the surrounding downtown area.
II. BACKGROUND
The Old Jail is located on North Shartel Avenue, one block north of West Main Street
and one block west of the Civic Center. The facility was completed in 1940 and was used
by the Oklahoma City Police Department until the late 1980s when the new County Jail
was constructed. All City prisoners are now housed in the county facility. The Old Jail is
currently vacant.
The structure is six stories tall and includes a partial basement. The sixth floor was added
in 1960 at the same time the original art deco embellishments on the west entry were
removed. The building has two elevators, one of which is non-operational. Elevator floor
plates are 6’ X 6’ with ceiling heights of 7’6”. Each floor is 6,885 square feet for a total
building size of 41,310 square feet. Ceiling beams on the 1st and 2nd floors have at least
8’ clearance, while floors 3-6 have clearance of 6’10”.
Redevelopment of the building may include single or multiple uses. The redeveloper
must ensure that significant historic characteristics of the building are maintained.
Proposals must demonstrate how they will support and leverage ongoing and planned
downtown development. The proposed project must be financially viable and should not
be contingent upon funding from The City of Oklahoma City.
III. HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE
Hare and Hare, consultants from Kansas City, completed Oklahoma City’s first
comprehensive plan in 1930. The plan included a “Civic Center” which was later
constructed based largely on the Hare Plan and included the Jail, Auditorium, City Hall
and Courthouse.
City and County bonds approved in 1935, together with a federal matching grant,
supported construction of all four buildings conceived in the Civic Center plan.
The Municipal Auditorium, City Hall, and Courthouse, are each individually listed on the
National Register of Historic Places, and the Jail has been identified previously as
potentially eligible for listing on the National Register. Listing would potentially qualify
City of Oklahoma City and Bid RFP-OCITY-040
its Trusts 6/6/2017 8:20 AM p. 12
Page 2 of 9
the rehabilitation of the property for state and federal tax credits for certified
rehabilitation.
IV. SITE CONTEXT
Several recent redevelopment actions within a five minute walk have primed this area for
new investment. Significant public investments have been completed in the surrounding
area, including Project 180 and Film Row streetscapes, renovations of the lawns between
the Civic Center and City Hall and renovation of the nearby Myriad Gardens. The new
John Rex Elementary School at West Sheridan Avenue and North Walker Avenue has
been completed, as has the new Police Headquarters building. A new Courts
Administration building should be completed this year. The construction of Oklahoma
City’s new streetcar line is currently underway, and will include alignments in close
proximity to the Jail.
Numerous private developments throughout the surrounding area include the
rehabilitation of historic buildings for commercial, office, and residential use. The new
21C Hotel in the revitalized Fred Jones Manufacturing Building on Main Street adds new
hotel rooms to the downtown market and has served as a development driver to
downtown’s west end. A large-scale mixed used development is planned in the adjacent
area that proposes 345 multifamily housing units, as well as new shops, restaurants, and
amenities. New construction of residential and commercial facilities, including structured
parking, span from West Sheridan Avenue north into the Midtown area of Oklahoma
City.
V. CURRENT BUILDING CONDITION
• Mechanical services and utilities to the buildings were provided through the old
Police Headquarters building, which will be demolished. Therefore, services and
utilities to the Old Jail will need to be provided in a future renovation.
• The building is not compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
• No fire alarm or sprinkler system exists except on the ground floor.
• Due to roof leaks and broken or leaking windows, the building has been exposed to
the elements, including birds and other wildlife, and to water infiltration and related
damage.
• Asbestos is present on HVAC hardware and has been confirmed in the floor tile and
mastic.
• Sixth floor exterior walls are deteriorating. The walls are constructed of concrete
blocks with no steel reinforcement. Over the years, water has penetrated the walls
causing failure. Pieces of the exterior stucco on the sixth floor are beginning to fall
off.
City of Oklahoma City and Bid RFP-OCITY-040
its Trusts 6/6/2017 8:20 AM p. 13
Page 3 of 9
• Lead based paint has not been tested, but is likely throughout the building. See
Appendix A for the “Asbestos and Lead-Based Paint Survey” report of July 14, 1995.
VI. PRE-SUBMITTAL BUILDING TOURS
Potential proposers will be offered an opportunity to attend a non-mandatory building
tour, to be scheduled prior to the submittal date. Potential proposers who plan to attend
are asked to contact Lacy Kelly at (405) 297-2245 or lacy.kelly@okc.gov by June 20,
2017 in order to confirm availability and scheduling, and to receive additional
information about tour content and safety procedures.
VII. PRELIMINARY IDEAS FOR REUSE
Current zoning for the Old Jail is DBD (Downtown Business District), which allows a
wide range of commercial, residential and other uses. This zoning includes requirements
for design review via the City’s Downtown Design Review Committee, with regulations
and design guidelines that encourage mixed use, pedestrian-friendly development of an
urban character, and the retention of structures that are historic or that contribute to the
design, form, and urban character of the district.
This zoning is supported by Oklahoma City’s comprehensive plan, planokc, adopted in
2015. planokc establishes Land Use Typology Areas (LUTAs), and locates the Old Jail
within the Downtown LUTA. Key characteristics include urban, high intensity
development with close proximity among business, residential, “destination”, and
amenity-related uses.
In 2015, the City of Oklahoma City also established the Downtown Development
Framework to define a vision for the downtown’s ongoing development and future
growth. This Framework lays out development typologies, street typologies, and other
considerations for sub-districts within Downtown Oklahoma City. The Old Jail is located
within an area of downtown called the Civic/Arts Sub-District, for which the Framework
includes characteristics and development priorities of medium density, mixed use
development, a mix of new construction and historic structures, and potential uses
including multifamily housing, hotels, office buildings, and education/healthcare
facilities.
Previous planning efforts have identified an opportunity for connection between new or
rehabilitated facilities serving various Civic/Arts Sub-District needs, from housing to
shared workspace to creative retail. Redevelopment of the Old Jail offers a range of
options for adaptive reuse that would be supported by existing and ongoing developments
in the surrounding area, recent planning initiatives and identified goals for Downtown
Oklahoma City.

This is great news! What is the most likely proposal? Apartments?

This is great news! What is the most likely proposal? Apartments?

I hope something can be done with this but am not super hopeful.

They tried this in 2012, nothing came of it. Times have changed, but the floors in that building are very low with is a big limitation, and there are other issues as well.

Maybe the time is right now. Hope so.

Looks like they only received one response to the RFP and they have deemed it not to meet requirments.

City Council will vote today to reissue the RFP; this will be the 3rd attempt.

*************************

The City is seeking proposals to redevelop the Old Jail facility.
Redevelopment of the building may include single or multiple uses. The
redeveloper must ensure that significant historic characteristics of the
building are maintained. Proposals must demonstrate how they will
support and leverage ongoing and planned downtown development. The
proposed project must be financially viable and should not be contingent
upon funding from The City of Oklahoma City.

Background On June 20, 2017 a Request for Proposals (RFP) to redevelop the Old
City Jail was advertised in the Journal Record and posted in the electronic
bidding system for proposals to be received on September 26, 2017.
Eighty-nine potential proposers viewed the RFP, and one proposal was
received by Gator Industrial, LLC. The proposal submitted was
nonresponsive to the requirements of the RFP.

Staff is recommending the proposal received be rejected and that the RFP
be readvertised for two weeks.

What was the proposal that was rejected?

What was the proposal that was rejected?

It was not included in the agenda packet for the meeting today.

OKC seeks development proposals to bail out old city jail

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record November 6, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – City Hall is going to ask developers for better ideas for the old city jail property this week.

The first round of pitches was less than satisfying, Planning Department Director Aubrey McDermid said.

“The only offer we received was to demolition the building,” McDermid said. “Nothing after that. Just demolition.

“That won’t do at all,” she said.

The six-story building at 200 N. Shartel Ave. originally served as the police department headquarters in addition to a detention facility when it opened in 1940. Administration offices moved out in the 1960s, and the city jail closed in the 1990s.

The building has remained empty since then. City Hall built a new headquarters last year to the south. Police officers now book people into the Oklahoma County detention center about a block to the west.

Even if someone can envision a use for the building’s shell or floor configuration – the top floor is shorter than comfortable for the average person, McDermid said, and probably only good for storage – rehabilitation will be a challenge for environmental reasons: The original builders put a lot of asbestos and lead paint into the building.

“Remediation will be costly,” she said.

City staff on Tuesday will request council members decline the proposal by Gator Industrial to raze the site without putting something in its place. Proposals must demonstrate how they will support and leverage ongoing and planned downtown development.

McDermid said City Hall hopes for a plan that would include historic restoration, which might open the deal for tax credits or other government-related funding options. However, she stressed that the city does not currently have money to help. A business improvement district fundraising plan would have to be proposed by the developer.

McDermid said a new round of requests for proposals is expected to attract a group of developers related to Marva Ellard, a developer who came forward about five years ago when City Hall first tested the market. Ellard’s proposal at the time highlighted the potential for multi-use: a diner restaurant, convenience store or laundry, with a second phase dependent on the first.

According to the RFP document, each of the building’s floors has 6,800 square feet for a total of about 41,000.

The first round of proposals was advertised in The Journal Record and posted in the electronic bidding system for proposals to be received on Sept. 26.

That invitation attracted 89 potential proposers who viewed the RFP document, but only Gator responded.

I was in Tampa recently and their former downtown post office, which later became the courthouse (similar to ours), was then sold after they built a new courthouse. It was converted into a hotel a few years ago and the entire basement, which used to be the jail/holding cells, was converted to rooms and amenities. I went on a tour and if they hadn't told me it had been a jail I would not have been able to tell. This building can be made beautiful and useful again.

With the city not currently having money to help (no TIF funds for this but everything else?) and the fact that you have asbestos in there and its an older structure, the city might have to just give it away due to the fact it will take a bunch of money to renovate. Otherwise, the numbers might not make any sense for any developers if they have to pay a significant amount of money for the property.

Either way, the city should do what they can to keep the building and find someone who will bring it back to life.

TIF would be available for this project, as it's in TIF 2 which has collected way, way more than ever budgeted.

Just saw this quote and assumed there was no TIF money for this:

McDermid said City Hall hopes for a plan that would include historic restoration, which might open the deal for tax credits or other government-related funding options. However, she stressed that the city does not currently have money to help. A business improvement district fundraising plan would have to be proposed by the developer.

Not sure what that means.

It could be through all these loans to developers that they have obligated all existing funds.

Renovation proposed for historic City Jail (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=484-Renovation-proposed-for-historic-City-Jail)

Local developer Marva Ellard has proposed renovating the long vacant old City Jail in west downtown.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail061017.jpg


The City Council voted today to name her and her group as the conditional redeveloper of the property after Ellard's response to the city's RFP was determined to be in closest alignment with the established criteria.

Ellard and architect Catherine Montgomery of the Preservation and Design Studio both spoke to the council before they authorized a resolution allowing the city to move forward with Ellard's group to move towards more specifics in terms of exact plans, financing and a financial projections.

Ellard told council that although plans are still evolving, possible uses would be a conveniences / sundry store on the first floor which would service workers and visitors to the area. Other possible tenants would be a diner and fitness center as well as office space and record storage.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail041118a.jpg


Renovation of the building has been problematic due to its condition and low ceiling height.

Economic Development Program Manager Brent Bryant said that if all goes to plan, details could be before the council in June for their approval with construction starting in the 4th quarter of 2018.

The old jail sits directly west of soon to be demolished old courthouse and police headquarters which have been replaced with new buildings to the north and south.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail041018d.jpg


Ellard redeveloped the historic Seiber Hotel in Midtown into apartments and is now part of a group looking to re-purpose the old Villa Teresa school with townhomes, a hotel and other uses.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail041018.jpg

make the upper floors into an urban Public Storage.

http://www.news9.com/story/37935150/developer-presents-plan-for-old-okc-jail-renovation

Sounds like there really isnt much of a plan.

Also, the city did a poor job on the RFP. Little notice, no viewing period, very little info to go off of. Hope something can be done with it though.

Also, the city did a poor job on the RFP. Little notice, no viewing period, very little info to go off of. Hope something can be done with it though.

This was all very strange.

In the City Council materials a 'review committee' was mentioned whereby they made this selection after posing some questions to the responding group. The council did not receive a copy of the response or even a summary of what was being proposed; just a memo asking them to provide approval to proceed then a quick presentation by Ellard and Montgomery at their last meeting.

Apart from the council meeting, I don't think any of this was public and not sure why it wasn't.

Normally I abhor non-transparency. But this is a supremely important (to not destroy) building (IMO the civic center buildings are a set that we should not separate), and also the last RFP ended up with MW Wrecking submitting an RFP to demo it. OY. Definitely don't need more of that.

City Council to consider demolition of historic City Jail (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=620-City-Council-to-consider-demolition-of-historic-City-Jail)

On Tuesday, the City Council will consider a resolution that seeks to start the process to ultimately demolish the old City Jail as well as buildings previously used by Municipal Courts and the Oklahoma City Police Department.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail1.jpg


The entire resolution is as follows:


The Old City Jail Facility (“Jail Facility”) located at 200 North Shartel Avenue, was built following the issuance of City and County bonds, that were approved in 1935, together with a federal matching grant, which were also used to construct the Civic Center Auditorium, City Hall and Oklahoma County Courthouse. Construction of the old Municipal Court Building ("Court Building") began in 1951 and construction of the old Police Headquarters ("Police HQ") began in 1968, with additions to the building made in 1980 and 1995. None of the three buildings have been designated as a historical preservation site or structure.

While the structural condition of the Court Building is fair, the interior is in major need of rehabilitation and has had long term issues with the sewer system, the mechanical and electrical systems, the roof and windows, and numerous other issues. Additionally, while the structural condition of the Police HQ is fair, the water, sewer, and electrical systems all need to be replaced and there are numerous other issues with the building as well.

The six story Jail Facility is comprised of approximately 41,310 square feet with a partial half basement, two elevators, only one of which is operable, with floor plates equaling 6,885 square feet. The floor heights vary in the Jail Facility as floors 1-2 have at least eight feet of ceiling clearance and floors 3-6 only have a clearance of 6’10”, rendering it difficult and expensive to rehabilitate.

On July 1, 1997 (Item VIII.I 1. and 2.), the City entered into a Jail Services Agreement with the Board of County Commissioners of Oklahoma County and Sheriff of Oklahoma County, effective July 1, 1997 to house prisoners that were arrested on City charges. After July 1, 1997, the Jail Facility was no longer used to house persons arrested on City charges; however, the City Marshal’s Office did continue to occupy office space in part of the Jail Facility until June 14, 2013.

The 2007 General Obligation Bond provided for construction of a new Police Headquarters and a new Municipal Court Building. The new Police Headquarters opened in 2015 and the new Municipal Court Building opened in 2017.

On June 20, 2017, a Request for Proposals (RFP) was advertised to redevelop the Jail Facility, which resulted in only one proposal being submitted by Gator Industrial, LLC, even though eighty-nine potential proposers viewed the RFP online. On November 7, 2017, the City Council rejected the proposal from Gator Industrial, LLC for the redevelopment of the Jail Facility and authorized staff to re-advertise the RFP. A redevelopment group called Allied Redevelopment L.L.C., headed by local developer Marva Ellard, submitted a response to the readvertisement.

A Review Committee consisting of representatives from the Planning, Police, Finance, and Public Works Departments, along with representatives from the City Manager’s Office and Municipal Counselor’s Office reviewed the proposal and submitted follow-up questions to the prospective developer regarding their plans for the Jail Facility. After much review and deliberation, the Review Committee recommended designating the developer as the conditional redeveloper of the Jail Facility.

On April 10, 2018 (Item VII.AI.), City Council approved a resolution to conditionally designate Allied Redevelopment L.L.C. as a potential and conditional redeveloper of the Jail Facility described above, subject to the final determination and approval of the Mayor and Council. The Resolution authorized and directed the City Manager or his designee(s) to conduct negotiations with the conditionally designated redeveloper for a period of ninety (90) days in an attempt to reach an agreement as to development plans, financing arrangements, price contingencies, and other terms and conditions, and if satisfactory, present an economic development contract to the Mayor and Council for review for the sale of land and the redevelopment of the Jail Facility. Allied Redevelopment L.L.C. was not able to reach an agreement with the City Manager or his designee(s) as of May 1st, 2019 and Allied Redevelopment L.L.C. did not meet the requirement to have a proposal ready to submit to Council within the 90 day period.

The construction of the new Municipal Courts Building and the new Oklahoma City Police Headquarters caused the loss of at least 235 parking spaces for the City’s public safety campus. There is a critical need for parking to support the City’s five-building public safety campus, consisting of the Communications/911 Center, Municipal Court/Criminal Justice Center, Police Headquarters, Police Property Facility and Police Forensic Laboratories. The demolition of the old Police HQ Building, the old Courts Building and Jail Facility would provide an estimated 166 additional surface parking spaces. Funding has been set aside to demolish the no longer needed structures.

City staff, based on its analysis of the structures and the demonstrated need for additional parking for the expanding public safety campus, is ready to proceed with demolition of the former Police HQ Building, the Jail Facility, and the old Court Building. Based on experience, it is very likely the City will realize significant savings through bidding all three demolition projects through the same competitive bidding process.

Adoption of this resolution authorizes the City Manager or his designee(s) to apply for a Certificate of Approval from the Downtown Design Review Committee to demolish the Jail Facility, old Police HQ and old Court Building.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityjail041018d.jpg

Really hard to develop right next to the county jail, courts, and police HQ.

Hey we can always build another cool historical building from 1935 with awesome stone detailing. It would be impossible to ever repurpose one of those. People only ever repurpose the buildings that come ready with modern elevators, plumbing, and 10 ft ceilings.

Hey we can always build another cool historical building from 1935 with awesome stone detailing. It would be impossible to ever repurpose one of those. People only ever repurpose the buildings that come ready with modern elevators, plumbing, and 10 ft ceilings.

They tried, and nothing came of the RFP...

They tried, and nothing came of the RFP...
So keep trying? Better than giving up.

So keep trying? Better than giving up.

So how would you propose reusing a bldg that has 6'10" (and 8') floor heights without demoing the entire inside and rebuilding? What possible use could a bldg with that low of a ceiling on a majority of the floors have?

So how would you propose reusing a bldg that has 6'10" (and 8') floor heights without demoing the entire inside and rebuilding? What possible use could a bldg with that low of a ceiling on a majority of the floors have?
I’m not an engineer but I’m sure it’s been done.

So keep trying? Better than giving up.

Easy to say when it's not your money.

Easy to say when it's not your money.
What an amazing point. You’re right. Let’s tear it down.

I think they should just leave it standing until somebody's got a better idea. It's not like it's hurting anyone by being there. And it's not like people are pushing and shoving to buy that piece of land right there.

I think they should just leave it standing until somebody's got a better idea. It's not like it's hurting anyone by being there. And it's not like people are pushing and shoving to buy that piece of land right there.

I agree, why can’t they just gut the interior structure and start new.
As in maybe being able to combine the floors, or being able to create
a building within the facade. There are countless architectural ways to keep the beauty of the masonry and bring a new life to the building.

Seems to me like the city shot themselves in the foot with the limitations and conditions in the RFP right out of the box. First they try to preserve the building through the controlling process , but when that fails, hell lets just demolish it and put in a parking lot.

Why can’t they just get it sold to one of the developers downtown who have worked their magic with other structures, and let ‘em at it?.

The city wants the parking and is not interested in saving this building.

There are all types of resources that could be made available but they would prefer just to have this building gone so employees can have a surface parking lot.

Not matter there is a sea of surface parking just to the south. Although largely owned by the Police Union, this all goes back to the city blocking their parking garage and so now here we are.

Why would any building in downtown OKC be allowed to be torn down for a surface parking lot?

OKC: The city without a past.

It’s unreal that the city seems to learn no lessons.

OKC: The city without a past.

It’s unreal that the city seems to learn no lessons.
Forget all of those buildings. It’s easy to say that when it isn’t your money.

If the only thing to be gained is parking space and the cost to simply leave in place is minimal, why not just leave it be? Maybe we will luck out and the horror show that is the Oklahoma County Jail will be demolished and relocated in the coming years, making the city jail a more desirable makeover. Regardless, at some point, someone will have a more desirable idea than "parking spaces."

With half the floors only having a 6' ceiling, this place doesn't have a future as anything. It's not a practical structure for any purpose. Really all I could see is to gut the floors and turn it into open warehouse storage space. Those aren't freight elevators (the one that works) and there's no ROI in that. I mean honestly, that's really the only practical thing i can come up with at only 6'. NO ONE wants an office with 6' ceilings. And with such cheap warehouse space elsewhere, why would someone want to pay for it at this location and then also have to deal with elevators?

The outside of the building is nice and I wish we could do something here. But when looking to save something, there really has to be some potential to turn it into something. I personally dont think this one is going to be able to do that. Do i want a parking lot? Not really, but i also understand the desire for parking between the two new structures.

Would it be cost prohibitive, or architecturally impossible to go in and knock out a couple floors and make it a 3 or 4 story loft apartment or office building?

Would it be cost prohibitive, or architecturally impossible to go in and knock out a couple floors and make it a 3 or 4 story loft apartment or office building?

That's exactly what i was thinking. Knock out the floor between 3 & 4 and 5 & 6 and you would have 14 foot ceilings and could do some really interesting things with that space.

Would it be cost prohibitive, or architecturally impossible to go in and knock out a couple floors and make it a 3 or 4 story loft apartment or office building?

Cost is always a factor and "architecturally impossible" is usually a designation that has more to do with cost and will, than it does with architecture.

Here's some examples of re-purposed prisons:

https://recyclenation.com/2010/10/recycling-repurposed-prisons/

I'm sure a few of these presented architectural challenges at least as difficult as this building would present.

Sometimes it's just a matter of creative problem solving and a desire to do it. And, really, you basically have to have the latter before the right people who can offer the former show up. Honestly, from what Pete has said, it sounds like the city doesn't have any real desire to see something other than a parking lot.

Given its location and what is around it, what kinds of marketable uses would work there?

Given its location and what is around it, what kinds of marketable uses would work there?

Surface level parking lot.

Given its location and what is around it, what kinds of marketable uses would work there?

That always depends on who you ask, I guess. Thankfully, 21c and film row people came up with a different answer than the one that most had come up with for the 20 or so years prior...

There are plenty of uses. Tons of bars and restaurants and offices all around there.

And that County Jail will ultimately go away.


That our own city wants to tear down a historic building just to add a few more surface parking spots... Well, that says a lot.

Given its location and what is around it, what kinds of marketable uses would work there?

Given its location and what is around it id say it was one of the most prime locations in OKC.

Given its location and what is around it id say it was one of the most prime locations in OKC.

It really is. The transformation to this side of downtown has been impressive. I think it'd be cool as another boutique hotel. It's basically in between the Civic Center and everything going on in and around the Jones and 21c. At this point, I imagine the new activity has brought up demand for rooms in the immediate area enough to support both 21c and something here. Also, maybe stuff at the court house generates demand for lodging?? I can see Main adding a lot more attractions in the coming years as well.

Basically, it's surrounded by stuff that people looked at for years as not worthy of investment. It's sort of weird to still ask this question every time we discuss renovating or re-purposing OKC's older buildings. There are just too many of examples of it working. It actually seems like the only time there is a failed re-purposing of a piece of land these days is when something is torn down.

So, it doesn't seem like the market would be a problem. It's just will and resources.

Think about how long the Skirvin, First National, Plaza Court, etc. etc. sat vacant before finding the right developer and use.

This is the way things go. You wait.

They could tear down the other buildings and still provide parking without tearing this down.


This is especially egregious because there is a sea of surface parking all around this spot.

What's the plan for the old police and court building lot at it's back when it is demolished? That should be happening soon, right? Why aren't we trying to rehab that building?

How about gut it out leaving the facade and making it a parking garage leaving the architecture in place, take out all the glass in the windows, etc. This way you don't have the 6' ceilings to worry about. Just gut and build up from the inside. Not only do you increase parking, you get more parking than you would on a surface lot, and it would look pretty.

I too was thinking parking GARAGE (not lot).

Together Square West? :-)

This was tabled today; will come up again in 2 weeks.

It's JoBeth Hamon's ward and like James Cooper and First Christian, only learned about the plans when she saw it on the agenda which isn't even given to the council members until Friday afternoon.

This was tabled today; will come up again in 2 weeks.

It's JoBeth Hamon's ward and like James Cooper and First Christian, only learned about the plans when she saw it on the agenda which isn't even given to the council members until Friday afternoon.

Seriously, again? Guess the new councilpeople have an uphill battle ahead of them WRT "that's the way it's always been done" around here...

Arrogance is the word that comes to mind.
Only saw it on the agenda?
The city needs to at least pretend we’re a democratic (small d, of course) municipality.

Arrogance is the word that comes to mind.
Only saw it on the agenda?
The city needs to at least pretend we’re a democratic (small d, of course) municipality.

what the council is the oversight of the city goverment ... they dont "run" the city ..

what the council is the oversight of the city goverment ... they dont "run" the city ..

Yet, people in economic development say over and over again, "We don't set policy, City Council does."

Yet, people in economic development say over and over again, "We don't set policy, City Council does."

policy yes ... day to day operation no ...

and i know that is symanatics ...


but like it or not demoing the jail is not seen as controversial to most in the city govt or to many of the public ... and we will see in a few weeks the thoughts of the horseshoe ...

Forget all of those buildings. It’s easy to say that when it isn’t your money.

This is such a silly take. By this standard, cities would preserve no buildings if there weren't an immediate economic interest. You would have let the Skirvin be torn down if parking was proposed? Please. There is a common good in preservation that precedes immediate economic interests. There's absolutely no reason this historic building should be torn down for any reason, much less parking.

Forget all of those buildings. It’s easy to say that when it isn’t your money.

Well, it's city owned property, so actually it is my money.

This is such a silly take. By this standard, cities would preserve no buildings if there weren't an immediate economic interest. You would have let the Skirvin be torn down if parking was proposed? Please. There is a common good in preservation that precedes immediate economic interests. There's absolutely no reason this historic building should be torn down for any reason, much less parking.

I believe Plutonic Panda was saying this sarcastically in regards to post #26.

^^^ yes, I was being sarcastic :p