View Full Version : MAPS 4 Plan? Shadid proposes shift in focus to fund city services.



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Plutonic Panda
05-30-2017, 04:05 PM
Yes I went back and reread it and it makes sense now. I would have thought MAPS 4 would get more money than just $180 million though it now sounds to me like they're branding it as an extension of MAPS 3 which is smart.

I'm hoping they'll release a map of each individual street project and details of it. I'm also extremely interested in the sidewalks, trails, and parks.

gopokes88
05-30-2017, 07:30 PM
It's basically a 1/4 cent tax raise and maps goes down to a 3/4 cent program. Smart way to raise taxes without the $ you are used to paying going up.

Getting amazon to start paying sales tax is huge. That's where a lot of future sales tax growth will be.

progressiveboy
06-01-2017, 06:50 PM
Would like to see street infrastructure improve by using concrete to repave city streets. I am sure city officials will say the cost is to prohibitive? OKC should do things right the first time and that includes looking at the "long term" picture and not a quick fix. The residents of OKC deserve better!

bradh
06-01-2017, 07:50 PM
The asphalt mafia would never allow that

Plutonic Panda
06-01-2017, 09:10 PM
Would like to see street infrastructure improve by using concrete to repave city streets. I am sure city officials will say the cost is to prohibitive? OKC should do things right the first time and that includes looking at the "long term" picture and not a quick fix. The residents of OKC deserve better!Yes I believe I pointed this out as well. Couldn't agree more.

In all honesty, I'm not that excited about this new bond issue. Only $20 million for transit which should be more like 50-70 million and not a lot of money for parks either. I would like to have seen more road widenings, transit improvements, and more park projects. It looks like they're just going to repave the roads in asphalt with no real traffic flow or aesthetic improvements.

OkieDave
06-01-2017, 10:23 PM
Yes I believe I pointed this out as well. Couldn't agree more.

In all honesty, I'm not that excited about this new bond issue. Only $20 million for transit which should be more like 50-70 million and not a lot of money for parks either. I would like to have seen more road widenings, transit improvements, and more park projects. It looks like they're just going to repave the roads in asphalt with no real traffic flow or aesthetic improvements.

$20 million for transit. $28 million for 3 new golf clubhouses. :(

Plutonic Panda
06-02-2017, 01:13 AM
$20 million for transit. $28 million for 3 new golf clubhouses. :(yeah it's wack. I mean it does seem like the city is gearing up for a mass transit package soon for the RTA which ACOG has said they'll be a massive investment in the service reworking to tie in the streetcar once it opens and the new commuter rail. I'll believe that when I see it.

bradh
06-02-2017, 07:55 AM
double post

bradh
06-02-2017, 07:56 AM
to be fair, I don't think we are to a point yet with transit that stuff is ready to be built, so much is still just being discussed.

i'm all for the new clubhouse at Hefner though

Pete
06-02-2017, 08:25 AM
By transit they mean bus stops and the like and those can be built any time.

The huge majority of the stops are just a sign in the ground or some sad bench with no protection from the elements.

And very few are handicap accessible.


I'll see if I can get some more detail about what that transit money would cover.

shawnw
06-02-2017, 09:12 AM
When I talked to the Embark folks at the bond meetings, they were pushing for more buses (to improve headways) and more bikes for spokies. If they got their way (and I have no idea if they did), they were talking a couple dozen more kiosks.

riflesforwatie
06-02-2017, 09:16 AM
And there are a number of stops that are just a sign or an unprotected bench not even connected to a sidewalk.

I like the idea of improving headways with more buses, but that's going to require more drivers, too. Can a non-capital cost like additional employees be covered from this sort of tax (or the GO Bond)?

shawnw
06-02-2017, 09:27 AM
Believe me, the stop by my work that I use is one of those classic benches, perched unevenly on a semi-hill with no sidewalk and just feet (2-3) from 40MPH 4-lane traffic. I'd love to have a better stop there. But I get that it's a process and I'm okay with balancing service requirements and stop upgrades over time.

Questor
06-11-2017, 09:09 AM
So what's the consensus... do folks think this sales tax proposal will be successful? I know it's anecdotal, but just talking to folks around town it seems like there's less support for this than a traditional MAPS proposal, but I don't know if that's reality or just my microcosm. Any word if there will be any significant ad campaigns to try and promote this?

soonerguru
06-12-2017, 08:16 PM
So what's the consensus... do folks think this sales tax proposal will be successful? I know it's anecdotal, but just talking to folks around town it seems like there's less support for this than a traditional MAPS proposal, but I don't know if that's reality or just my microcosm. Any word if there will be any significant ad campaigns to try and promote this?

Unless there is a considerable investment in transit included, I will be voting against this measure. This effectively trashes the MAPS brand. I will vocally campaign against this.

gopokes88
06-12-2017, 08:20 PM
Hopefully they add Hefner beach to it if they are going to allow swimming in the lake.

pw405
06-12-2017, 08:45 PM
Unless there is a considerable investment in transit included, I will be voting against this measure. This effectively trashes the MAPS brand. I will vocally campaign against this.

By transit do you mean streetcar expansion? Or more bus routes & stops, etc?

Midtowner
06-13-2017, 07:50 AM
Shifting money into permanent salaried positions kills the MAPS brand. MAPS is important. It's investment in infrastructure and public works which is supposed to generate a tax base. We can hire police and fire from that expansion. Perhaps MAPS development can focus on expanding the tax bases which fund public safety? That would be a win-win, I think.

Laramie
06-13-2017, 08:13 AM
My understanding of this bond is to repair streets with major emphasis on roads that lead to the neighborhoods. Streets, bridges & roads are in dire need of repair--30 years overdue.

http://www.etcog.org/UserFiles/Image/Transportation/ETCC/obama-high-speed-rail-corridor.png

We've made some steps toward potential transit; let's use any surplus money to do a study on high speed and/or passenger rail link to the I-35 super corridor which leads to the Metroplex and I-44 link between Tulsa & Oklahoma City.

http://businessjournalism.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/better-high-speed-rail-map-jpg.jpg

shawnw
06-13-2017, 08:24 AM
I'd rather see $88M go to improvements for Amtrak to Newton (and other places, e.g. Tulsa) in the short term. Nationwide HSR is so danged far off...

Also, I too have been campaigning against this tainting of the MAPS brand.

gopokes88
06-13-2017, 07:56 PM
My understanding of this bond is to repair streets with major emphasis on roads that lead to the neighborhoods. Streets, bridges & roads are in dire need of repair--30 years overdue.

http://www.etcog.org/UserFiles/Image/Transportation/ETCC/obama-high-speed-rail-corridor.png

We've made some steps toward potential transit; let's use any surplus money to do a study on high speed and/or passenger rail link to the I-35 super corridor which leads to the Metroplex and I-44 link between Tulsa & Oklahoma City.

http://businessjournalism.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/better-high-speed-rail-map-jpg.jpg
You do know this is never going to happen right?

Laramie
06-13-2017, 08:20 PM
You do know this is never going to happen right?

At my age it's a good chance it won't happen in my life time. The timeline on the bottom map doesn't favor any of this--more of the placeholder variety.

gopokes88
06-13-2017, 08:24 PM
At my age it's a good chance it won't happen in my life time. The timeline on the bottom map doesn't favor any of this...
It will never ever get built. It's old technology. Trains<cars<hyperloop

Laramie
06-13-2017, 08:48 PM
It will never ever get built. It's old technology. Trains<cars<hyperloop

You're right! Old technology that doesn't amount to a hill-of-beans--high speed rail.

:iagree:

Concentrate our efforts on streets, bridges & roads...

gopokes88
06-13-2017, 09:22 PM
You're right! Old technology that doesn't amount to a hill-of-beans--high speed rail.

:iagree:

Concentrate our efforts on streets, bridges & roads...

Rail is old technology. HSR will never be adopted in this country. It'll either go hyperloop or flying cars. HSR is a huge waste of time

warreng88
06-14-2017, 07:30 AM
I think the biggest problem with getting this passed with be educating the public on the purpose of this. From all the comments I see on facebook stories/posts and the nextdoor app, most people want the money to go to schools and while that is commendable, that is a state issue, not a city issue and most people don't understand that. I fear with the slim passing of MAPS3 in 2009, unless there is proper education of the public, people will vote no because there is a lack of funding for schools.

cinnamonjock
06-14-2017, 08:41 AM
Hyperloop and flying cars aren't proven technologies. High-speed rail is. It also depends on how high or low energy prices get in the future and how good batteries can become. But for the short term, working on regional transit and roadwork would be the best use of the city's time and money.

shawnw
06-14-2017, 09:14 AM
http://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/04/11/is-your-local-government-falling-for-the-hyperloop-fantasy/

rezman
06-14-2017, 09:21 AM
I would vote no to an extension until all MAPS 3 projects are completed and the public is delivered everything they were promised. Until then, the wallet should be shut.

shawnw
06-15-2017, 09:47 AM
https://nondoc.com/2017/06/15/challenges-ahead-funding-schools/

DoctorTaco
06-15-2017, 02:46 PM
Can someone please explain to me what the Board of Equalization does? I read somewhere that even if OKC was able to shunt money into OKCPS the state would just reduce its spending here and everything would come out a wash. Is this true?

OkieDave
06-15-2017, 05:45 PM
Can someone please explain to me what the Board of Equalization does? I read somewhere that even if OKC was able to shunt money into OKCPS the state would just reduce its spending here and everything would come out a wash. Is this true?

There is a difference between taxes. Property tax spent on OKCPS would count against the schools funding formula but not sales tax or income tax.

OkieDave
06-15-2017, 06:08 PM
It is also instructive to remember that while some city leaders protest that cities should not be involved in education, they were supportive of David Holt's 2015 legislation which would allow the City Council to bypass the School Boards and sponsor Charter Schools even when opposed by the Superintendent/School Board.

http://newsok.com/article/5405697