Plans revealed for new 10,000 seat arena at state fairgrounds (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=312-Plans-revealed-for-new-10-000-seat-arena-at-state-fairgrounds)

The state fairgrounds board recently commissioned a study by consultants Populous to determine the feasibility of a new 10,000 seat multi-purpose facility on the site of the venerable Jim Norick Arena.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arena8.jpg


Norick Arena seats 8,500 in its typical configuration but can accommodate up to 11,000. Originally named the State Fairgrounds Arena, it opened in 1965.

The current arena received a renovation and slight expansion as part of the first MAPS initiative in the 1990's.

The City of Oklahoma City has used Populous to assist in the site selection and design of the MAPS 3 Convention Center and also commissioned other studies from the Kansas City-based firm, which has had a hand in dozens of arenas, ballparks and stadiums around the world.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arena2.jpg


As proposed, the new arena would sit slightly southeast of the present arena site and be completely new from the ground up. It would also be attached to the new livestock barns that were recently added as part of MAPS 2 and directly across from the under-construction Expo Building, which is nearing completion as part of MAPS 3.


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The preliminary plans also call for a small horse/livestock arena to be built between the existing barns and the new facility, along with more barn and multi-purpose space.

Other features include two large plazas, suites, and retractable upper-level seating.

A lounge and restaurants are also part of the proposal.

Flexibility would allow for the easy configuration for equestrian/rodeo, basketball, circus, ice shows and concerts.

Timeline for construction and costs are not known at this time.



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Proactively lining up projects for the next MAPS, I see...

I don't see what's wrong with the current arena.

Proactively lining up projects for the next MAPS, I see...

The next MAPS or is it just part of regular improvements funded by the hotel tax? They already have a pretty detailed plan when the next MAPS is several years away.

I could see them getting this ready for the inevitable tear down of the current cox convention center. Tear down the old state fairgrounds arena while the CCC is still standing and have the new one ready by the time the CCC is ready to be torn down.

I don't see what's wrong with the current arena.

Its in the way of more horse barns. lol

This arena that is being planned looks like its primary designed as a rodeo arena that happens to be able to host other events occasionally. Plus, the current arena was built in the 1960's.

Just because it was built in the 60's doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. I can't see tearing down a perfectly good 10,000 seat arena just to build another new 10,000 seat arena. Sounds like a complete waste of money to me.

Well like the article said, it's an increase up to 10K from 8.5. If you've ever been in there for the OSSAA Basketball games, you can appreciate the need for more seats. I had the opportunity, in high school, to perform at state wrestling there as well (our pep band, aka Basketball band) played during the finals matches. Hey, we thought it was weird but the OSSAA asked us to play, so we said, sure. It was cool and several people from all over the state said they enjoyed it. Anyway....the place did get a facelift, but it really is an old pile still. It looks like complete crap with the exposed foam spray insulation on everything. The locker rooms are pretty sad, and any sort of "green" space just doesn't exist in any practical reality. So to compare a new design to that of the current arena is an apples to oranges comparison.

Part of this is keeping in mind what the main purpose of the new arena would be compared to the old one. The old one was THE arena in OKC for a while. The new arena is meant for ag shows, OSSAA, circus, etc. Think anything that uses dirt...probably going to be here. This is totally separate from the Myriad though. Events held at each are totally different. Heck look at the seating, the upper deck on this one is traditional retractable bleachers!! Obviously this is nicer than the old one, but it's still not a palace.

Just because it was built in the 60's doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. I can't see tearing down a perfectly good 10,000 seat arena just to build another new 10,000 seat arena. Sounds like a complete waste of money to me.

Inclined to agree iwith you here, Patrick. Not seeing the value in the expense, considering that the *primary* purpose for this arena despite its multipurpose persona is to support the horse shows.

Well like the article said, it's an increase up to 10K from 8.5. If you've ever been in there for the OSSAA Basketball games, you can appreciate the need for more seats. I had the opportunity, in high school, to perform at state wrestling there as well (our pep band, aka Basketball band) played during the finals matches. Hey, we thought it was weird but the OSSAA asked us to play, so we said, sure. It was cool and several people from all over the state said they enjoyed it. Anyway....the place did get a facelift, but it really is an old pile still. It looks like complete crap with the exposed foam spray insulation on everything. The locker rooms are pretty sad, and any sort of "green" space just doesn't exist in any practical reality. So to compare a new design to that of the current arena is an apples to oranges comparison.

Part of this is keeping in mind what the main purpose of the new arena would be compared to the old one. The old one was THE arena in OKC for a while. The new arena is meant for ag shows, OSSAA, circus, etc. Think anything that uses dirt...probably going to be here. This is totally separate from the Myriad though. Events held at each are totally different. Heck look at the seating, the upper deck on this one is traditional retractable bleachers!! Obviously this is nicer than the old one, but it's still not a palace.

OSSAA games aren’t going to take up 10,000 seats. I’ve been to the last two 6A basketball championship games, my nephew plays for Mustang, and even the 6A games don’t remotely fill the Mabee center’s 12,000 seats. The arena was well under half full and I don’t think the upper bowl was even opened. I can’t see the small school divisions that play at State Fair coming anywhere close to filling needing 10,000 seats.

I'm sure this is all part of the bigger strategy to bring in more equestrian shows.

It's not just the arena, but the stage area between it and the existing barns.

And, most arenas make their money from suites, food and beverage. This is why cities tear down relatively new arenas like Reunion in Dallas.

I'm sure this is all part of the bigger strategy to bring in more equestrian shows.

It's not just the arena, but the stage area between it and the existing barns.

And, most arenas make their money from suites, food and beverage. This is why cities tear down relatively new arenas like Reunion in Dallas.

I admit, I don't know anything about the horse show industry, but I'm sure they expect a certain amount of amenities and perks from an arena like NBA owners do when it comes to their arenas. The State Fair Park's primary goal is to cater to the horse show industry.

So no ice rink capabilities?

So no ice rink capabilities?

They specifically said ice shows could be accommodated.

If only they could build out an attached hotel...

Nice. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of bringing back some kind of Hockey as well.

I was thinking hockey as well, and maybe even making a run at larger rodeos and not just horse shows.

Nice. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of bringing back some kind of Hockey as well.

I'm sure a hockey rink could be easily accommodated.

If only they could build out an attached hotel...

I've often wondered why there are no hotels right next to the fairgrounds. I assume it is because years ago everyone stayed on Meridian and since it is there is a recurring attendees, this has not changed. I would think the east side of May, which is mostly industrial, would be a good place for a few hotels are restaurants.

If your into the equestrian and livestock show business, then this proposal is a no-brainer. If your not then it might seem like a waste of money. Exactly like some people thought the Chesapeake arena renovation was a waste of money. But regardless, there is no way you can keep a dated facility and expect overall revenue goals to grow or even stay the same without upgrades (business 101).

I've often wondered why there are no hotels right next to the fairgrounds. I assume it is because years ago everyone stayed on Meridian and since it is there is a recurring attendees, this has not changed. I would think the east side of May, which is mostly industrial, would be a good place for a few hotels are restaurants.

Even if something could be done like in Dallas, where Dart has hotels along the line that runs to the fairgrounds. The lack of a close hotel or public transport has kept me from hosting events at the fairground.

Inclined to agree iwith you here, Patrick. Not seeing the value in the expense, considering that the *primary* purpose for this arena despite its multipurpose persona is to support the horse shows.

For comparison, the estimated economic impact of horse shows in OKC is $126 million annually:

http://www.okcchamber.com/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=HorseShowCapital&category=OklahomaCity&submenu=HorseShowCapital

The biggest show is estimated to have $20 million impact:

http://newsok.com/article/5364285

The estimated economic impact for the thunder is around $60 million each year:

http://newsok.com/article/3811956
http://www.news9.com/story/28815494/oklahoma-city-thunder-boosts-citys-economy

Most Fairgrounds improvements are paid for by hotel taxes, as well. So these are people coming in from out of state and it's really them that pay for it. We don't have to tax ourselves to fund the investment like we do with MAPS. And, really, these people also contribute to MAPS when they spend money in the city. So, as opposed to many of the benefits from MAPS projects, the horse shows are largely a pure economic gain for the city and the state. I'm in no way trying to downplay the massive economic benefits of the MAPS projects for the city, but a lot more of that money (not all of it by any means) is spent by people in the metro who would have spent much of that money here to begin with. With the horse shows it's people from all over the world who never would have come to Oklahoma and spent money if not for those shows. If there is any other type of event(s) that bring more people (people with a lot of spending capacity) from out of state and country into Oklahoma, I don't know what it is.

And again, since it's largely paid for by visitors, I think it becomes easy to justify it. We get a nice return with little direct investment from the community itself. I don't go to horse shows or could even afford to have horses, but I think it's pretty easy to see that we should be doing as much as we can to maintain and grow the industry in OKC and maximize the revenue it generates through capital improvements like this.

@BDP, thanks for that insightful post. My initial reaction to this project was, "why?". Now I'm thinking, "why not?"

I suspect with the big civic investment in the barns and now the Expo center, the arena is a big weak link.

I used to work at one of the hotels near I-40 & Meridian and that whole area would get overrun when there was something happening at the fairgrounds.

Considering the dozens of new hotels in that area, that must be the case now more than ever.

I wonder if motorsports shows like Monster Jam and Motocross would hold their events here instead of the Chesapeake. Would make a cool home for minor league hockey, too.

As someone else mentioned, the Cox Center is going away in the near future and it would be nice to have a quality secondary arena for minor league sports and scheduling conflicts with CHK.

As someone else mentioned, the Cox Center is going away in the near future and it would be nice to have a quality secondary arena for minor league sports and scheduling conflicts with CHK.

Yeah, that was my initial thought and the timing of it makes the most sense.

If your into the equestrian and livestock show business, then this proposal is a no-brainer. If your not then it might seem like a waste of money. Exactly like some people thought the Chesapeake arena renovation was a waste of money.

Which is sort of funny, because it's much easier to see the direct impact in dollars alone with the horse shows than it is with the renovations that helped bring the Thunder to Oklahoma City. I certainly think all of the lifestyle improvements facilitated by MAPS have had a huge impact on making OKC a viable economic destination, but it's a lot harder to get to how much new money it actually generates. I honestly do think that the MAPS improvements have generated benefits that go beyond just what people spend in bricktown when they go to a game or a concert. I think people and companies locate here in part because of all the lifestyle improvements MAPS has been responsible for. But again, it's harder to make the direct correlation to determine a true ROI, even though I believe it is significant.

With the horse shows, you can simply look at the attendance, which is largely from out of state, and estimated their spending and revenue generated from taxes, all while knowing that this is largely new money injected into the economy. So, I think it makes a lot of sense to nurture the industry and try and get it to grow, even though I have little personal interest in horses or horse shows.

On the surface it may seem like a waste but I agree with others that it is a no-brainer that we continue to invest in the fairgrounds for equestrian related uses.

It kind of seems dirty and opposite of what we are trying to attract in OKC, but the reality is most show horse owners are very wealthy, definitely moreso than your average NBA fan. Having outdated facilities and lack of first class amenities for them does reflect poorly on OKC, just like an outdated NBA facility would reflect on us. Also, if I am not mistaken, these shows can last a week long or more, which means they are staying in hotels for a full week or more, eating out in our restaurants. Your out of town NBA attendee might be in town just for one night, and they might aim to spend most of their money on tickets and less on eating out.

With this State Fair Arena upgrade, the coming MAPS3 Convention Center and Hotel, and the previous renovations to the CHK arena -- OKC will be a top-tier amenity provider for all 3 of our major tourist attendees. We will have a state of the art facility catering to each major section. OKC is on the right track here.

@BDP, thanks for that insightful post. My initial reaction to this project was, "why?". Now I'm thinking, "why not?"

No problem. Things can often get dismissed because of personal interest, but, imo, it's really just about the ROI analysis. And given that I'm only talking about the horse shows that this project is catering to, and not the other events it could host, I think there's a lot to like about it. Amenities do matter for promoters when picking venues, and for a 10k venue this looks like it could have some nice features.

Of course, this all depends on how much it will cost and how exactly it will be paid for.

The City accepted Letters of Interest for the actual programming and design of a facility last week... Just an FYI.

I have to wonder if there would be as many naysayers if this were proposed for the old oil mill coop site or anywhere within a couple minutes of Downtown, Midtown, Deep Deuce, etc.

Call me crazy but I see a lot of potential at the Fair Park, especially with this addition and demolition of the CCC.

Below is a map of potential growth I could see in this area in the next 8-12 years. It includes, hotels, new rail spur out to Yukon/Airport, retail, etc. Reno would make a great spur route with that wide center median. You could have stops here, White Water Bay, Outlet Shoppes, all the way to Czech Hall Rd (Yukon).

12889

No problem. Things can often get dismissed because of personal interest, but, imo, it's really just about the ROI analysis. And given that I'm only talking about the horse shows that this project is catering to, and not the other events it could host, I think there's a lot to like about it. Amenities do matter for promoters when picking venues, and for a 10k venue this looks like it could have some nice features.

Of course, this all depends on how much it will cost and how exactly it will be paid for.

Surely. I guess my thought is that, slowly but surely, it seems we're losing the soul of the Fairgrounds, and it's becoming mostly...horse barns. I get the value of those shows, the value of those visitors, the value of that industry, but I lament the loss of the Fairgrounds...a little bit at a time. Seems the only thing left will be the space needle. Wish someone would come in and put in a contemporary replacement in the vein of what Dallas did at their fairgrounds, but I guess that's another topic for another day.

Surely. I guess my thought is that, slowly but surely, it seems we're losing the soul of the Fairgrounds, and it's becoming mostly...horse barns. I get the value of those shows, the value of those visitors, the value of that industry, but I lament the loss of the Fairgrounds...a little bit at a time. Seems the only thing left will be the space needle. Wish someone would come in and put in a contemporary replacement in the vein of what Dallas did at their fairgrounds, but I guess that's another topic for another day.
To me that he old "soul" of the Fairgrounds died with the demolition of the Speedway. Now they just need to make it whatever it will be going forward. I wouldn't keep my faith in the Space Needle. It's non functional and won't be repaired. It won't be long before that space (no pun intended) looks good for something else.

To me that he old "soul" of the Fairgrounds died with the demolition of the Speedway. Now they just need to make it whatever it will be going forward. I wouldn't keep my faith in the Space Needle. It's non functional and won't be repaired. It won't be long before that space (no pun intended) looks good for something else.

More horse barns.

I still like the old exhibit halls that remain.

I was there a few months ago for a car show and brought back tons of fond memories.

But the rest the place has changed so much I'm not too worried about future plans in terms of nostalgia.

In fact, I was feeling a little blue over losing the arena because I remember going to see the Blazers play way back in the 60's, but the truth is I haven't been in there for 30 years and so it's a bit selfish to expect them to keep it.

To me that he old "soul" of the Fairgrounds died with the demolition of the Speedway. Now they just need to make it whatever it will be going forward. I wouldn't keep my faith in the Space Needle. It's non functional and won't be repaired. It won't be long before that space (no pun intended) looks good for something else.

And I personally believe they could repair it...if they wanted to. And they don't...just like they manufactured a reason to raze the speedway. Just disingenuous IMHO.

I was there a few months ago for a car show and brought back tons of fond memories.

In fact, I was feeling a little blue over losing the arena because I remember going to see the Blazers play way back in the 60's, but the truth is I haven't been in there for 30 years and so it's a bit selfish to expect them to keep it.

I grew up in Tulsa and this is home to my first concert outside of Tulsa, Family Values Tour 1998 featuring Korn, Rammstein, Ice Cube, Limp Bizkit and Orgy. Drove up with 15 friends in two cars and drove back after the show the same night. I just remember my ears ringing and it being a pretty smelly car ride home...

What good is retractable seating on the upper level?

Oh neat, a very wide walkway up here....

Surely. I guess my thought is that, slowly but surely, it seems we're losing the soul of the Fairgrounds, and it's becoming mostly...horse barns. I get the value of those shows, the value of those visitors, the value of that industry, but I lament the loss of the Fairgrounds...a little bit at a time. Seems the only thing left will be the space needle. Wish someone would come in and put in a contemporary replacement in the vein of what Dallas did at their fairgrounds, but I guess that's another topic for another day.

I get that. And I'd like to see a nicer fairgrounds like Dallas has too. I was just trying to address the concerns of this project being a waste of money. Again, while I'd like to see other improvements, anything that doesn't really cater to the horse shows is sort of a vanity project. The fair itself is only once a year for 10 days or so and is hardly the international draw that some of the twenty or so horse shows we have a year are. So, the immediate return just isn't there.

I'm not trying to run down anyone's nostalgia for or fondness of the fair or things that have been lost along the way. I'm just saying the improving horse facilities and infrastructure does seem to be easily justified by the numbers. Personally, when I see how much space there is at the fairgrounds, I don't really understand how it's become an issue of trading one for the other. Seems like we could do both, as long as there was funding for both.

Call me crazy but I see a lot of potential at the Fair Park, especially with this addition and demolition of the CCC.

Below is a map of potential growth I could see in this area in the next 8-12 years. It includes, hotels, new rail spur out to Yukon/Airport, retail, etc. Reno would make a great spur route with that wide center median. You could have stops here, White Water Bay, Outlet Shoppes, all the way to Czech Hall Rd (Yukon).

12889

All things old are new again. It wasn't that long ago that we spent money digging/covering up the rails that were there from the days of old along sections of Reno.

And I personally believe they could repair it...if they wanted to. And they don't...just like they manufactured a reason to raze the speedway. Just disingenuous IMHO.I'm sure I've said before. An old friend of mine that I started working with 30 years ago spent many years as the Fairgrounds electrician. I worked with him then when he needed help and we both contract with the Fairgrounds now. The reasons given of the Speedway being too expensive to rewire to code was absolute crap. Complete fabrication. The needle, not so much. I've been in the control "bunker". It's completely trashed, rusted away, gone. An engineer specializing in elevator controls could start from scratch and design new controls. Then there's the "bunker" itself. The walls are cracked which allowed the flooding and were then made worse by the flooding. The walls are also part of the needle base. So to demolish them the needle would have to be held upright while the walls were rebuilt. That would be an engineering nightmare. I drive I44 every day and love seeing a fond memory that I rode in every fall. But even I don't want the $$$$$$$$$ it would cost to repair the needle spent on it.
On a side note. I also had to get on top of the car at the top of the needle to work on the cameras you can see on the top. That was NOT FUN!! In a light wind that puppy sways a foot or so. And I don't like heights.

To put a timeline on things, the expo center was officially added to the State Fair's master plan in April of 2009 and the claim's that the State Fair speedway had to close because of electrical repairs came in December of 2009. The new midway sits where the speedway use to be. Seems pretty obvious why they closed the speedway.

Big League City, continue the momentum.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arena2.jpg

A new arena at the State Fair Grounds is long overdue. The State Fair Arena opened in 1965 (Original cost $2 million). This structure is 51 years old; with an entire roof that needs to be replaced. State Fair Arena doesn't compare to the old Municipal Auditorium (Civic Center Music Hall). Let's not continue to put bandages on this antiquated structure.

The horse industry brings in a lot of tourists to Oklahoma City--the horse show capital of the world.; an industry that brings in new dollars to our community. We're positioned in the geographic center of the United States (I-35/I-40 Crossroads).


We could bring back the 5A - 6A High school basketball finals.
Bid for the National College Finals Rodeo.
Continue to make OKC more attractive to the horse show industry.


A 10,000-seat arena could accommodate the return of AA or AAA ice hockey which would be an added incentive. City leaders are thinking outside the box with plans for the future.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arena7.jpg
By the looks of the drawings by Populous, the arena has room for a modest future expansion. The Oklahoma State Fairgrounds has plenty of paved parking to accommodate an arena of this size. Let's get started.

Fort Worth, Texas is OKC's competition. They would love to pluck some of our horse show events & activities. We have to maintain and continue to upgrade our facilities at Fair Park.

I have to wonder if there would be as many naysayers if this were proposed for the old oil mill coop site or anywhere within a couple minutes of Downtown, Midtown, Deep Deuce, etc.

Prob more naysayers if they tried to build this at the Co-OP site. Not nearly Grand enough for that site IMO. This would be a massive let down.

Prob more naysayers if they tried to build this at the Co-OP site. Not nearly Grand enough for that site IMO. This would be a massive let down.
OK. That site I should have left out.

I wonder what the feasability would be to cut a canal from the river into the fairgrounds? There is already a large drainage cut. Could bring the water taxis to another high tourist area. Might also attract some new development to the south of the 'grounds and provide the fairgoers with another attraction.

Ugh that's a long water taxi treck

Use your imagination. The river to main St. in Bricktown would have been dull if not for what developed along it. Build a new arena, encourage some new hotels or a soccer stadium on the south side ...who knows?

Looking at the proposed images, I am not a fan of the retractable cheap seats that are located by the rafters. The design should do away with those because we all know that any event hosted by the proposed arena would never reach 100% capacity.

Looking at the proposed images, I am not a fan of the retractable cheap seats that are located by the rafters. The design should do away with those because we all know that any event hosted by the proposed arena would never reach 100% capacity.

I don't even know the purpose of having retractable seating on the upper level. Is that just so people can walk around the upper level?

OSSAA games aren’t going to take up 10,000 seats. I’ve been to the last two 6A basketball championship games, my nephew plays for Mustang, and even the 6A games don’t remotely fill the Mabee center’s 12,000 seats. The arena was well under half full and I don’t think the upper bowl was even opened. I can’t see the small school divisions that play at State Fair coming anywhere close to filling needing 10,000 seats.

Except the thing is, with the smaller schools, a WHOLE lot more people come to the games. The entire town turns out for those teams. Far more people than go to a 6A game.

Ugh that's a long water taxi treck

I disagree, the water taxis already go West of that point.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4640388,-97.5676677,15.5z

Except the thing is, with the smaller schools, a WHOLE lot more people come to the games. The entire town turns out for those teams. Far more people than go to a 6A game.

I tend to agree with this. I grew up in a small town in western Oklahoma and the entire town traveled to almost EVERY regular season basketball game, and more so for playoff games...especially if it was state!

I grew up in Tulsa and this is home to my first concert outside of Tulsa, Family Values Tour 1998 featuring Korn, Rammstein, Ice Cube, Limp Bizkit and Orgy. Drove up with 15 friends in two cars and drove back after the show the same night. I just remember my ears ringing and it being a pretty smelly car ride home...

I went to this show too but don't remember it being the state fair arena. But I honestly don't remember where it was at. Rammstein........was a weird performance

I disagree, the water taxis already go West of that point.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4640388,-97.5676677,15.5z

Just to be clear: the boats you are talking about are the Devon River Cruises, which operate on the river. Bricktown Water Taxi operates on the Bricktown Canal. There is a 17' elevation difference between the two bodies of water. Besides the fact that there is no way to transit between the two elevations, neither boat is physically capable of operating on the other waterway. The water taxis would be underpowered and unsafe on the river, and the river cruisers are quite large and would physically not fit on the canal.

There is a point at the south end of the canal - known as Bricktown Landing - where you can disembark from one boat, walk between the two waterways, and board the other.

Regarding a landing at the fairgrounds, it WOULD be possible, but would be much more difficult and expensive today than before the I-40 crosstown was replaced. The drainage canal that runs out of the fair grounds could easily be adapted, but due to the new bridges at the I-40/I-44 junction, a boat would not fit underneath. This means the bridges would again have to be reconstructed. This would run in the many tens of millions if not more (probably more).

There are also pipelines and drainage infrastructure that run across the channel which would require relocation before a boat could pass over/under.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to secure federal funding for such a project so soon after the Feds paid for the current construction, so essentially you might need a MAPS for river/fairgrounds connection.

Sorry to be a wet blanket. It IS fun to think about, and in fact I brought it up a decade ago when we were in the conversation for river operations. We also visually surveyed the area to see if the engineering would work, and believe it would have. The idea didn't gain any traction, and the I-40 bridge reconstruction began soon after, making it next to impossible going forward.

Just to be clear: the boats you are talking about are the Devon River Cruises, which operate on the river. Bricktown Water Taxi operates on the Bricktown Canal. There is a 17' elevation difference between the two bodies of water. Besides the fact that there is no way to transit between the two elevations, neither boat is physically capable of operating on the other waterway. The water taxis would be underpowered and unsafe on the river, and the river cruisers are quite large and would physically not fit on the canal.

There is a point at the south end of the canal - known as Bricktown Landing - where you can disembark from one boat, walk between the two waterways, and board the other.

Regarding a landing at the fairgrounds, it WOULD be possible, but would be much more difficult and expensive today than before the I-40 crosstown was replaced. The drainage canal that runs out of the fair grounds could easily be adapted, but due to the new bridges at the I-40/I-44 junction, a boat would not fit underneath. This means the bridges would again have to be reconstructed. This would run in the many tens of millions if not more (probably more).

There are also pipelines and drainage infrastructure that run across the channel which would require relocation before a boat could pass over/under.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to secure federal funding for such a project so soon after the Feds paid for the current construction, so essentially you might need a MAPS for river/fairgrounds connection.

Sorry to be a wet blanket. It IS fun to think about, and in fact I brought it up a decade ago when we were in the conversation for river operations. We also visually surveyed the area to see if the engineering would work, and believe it would have. The idea didn't gain any traction, and the I-40 bridge reconstruction began soon after, making it next to impossible going forward.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. In my mind the River Cruise is basically there to take the I-40/Meridian hotel crowd to Bricktown, so in my head it's just lumped with 'water taxi', but the two are indeed rather different.

I wonder what the actual ridership is on those cruises. Are people actually taking them from Meridian to Downtown? In my mind they aren't super efficient as I believe they have to go through two locks.

I wonder what the actual ridership is on those cruises. Are people actually taking them from Meridian to Downtown? In my mind they aren't super efficient as I believe they have to go through two locks.

I think they said the trip is like an hour because of that, which is unfortunate