As i've said from the start of this, i fail to see how this is really an improvement from the current arena. Or see the point.

When was the last time you were in the arena? It is a dump. There are hundreds of broken or removed seats.

When was the last time you were in the arena? It is a dump. There are hundreds of broken or removed seats.

You're correct.

The new arena will keep those events in OKC and satisfy the needs of the horse shows and related events. We don't need anything on the level of a $540,000 million Dixies' Arena.

Many are concerned about the various state basketball tournaments, those events are more of a headache for the city than people realize. What little economic impact and income generated by those events are eaten up by the amount of police protection (including overtime pay) and cleanup (hiring temporary labor firms) the city has to provide for crowd control--they aren't worth it.

The City doesn't want those events.

When was the last time you were in the arena? It is a dump. There are hundreds of broken or removed seats.

Totally. They could rebuild it to the exact specs and just the fact that it's new would be an improvement.

This is more than needed.

As i've said from the start of this, i fail to see how this is really an improvement from the current arena. Or see the point.

especially for 100M+

Totally. They could rebuild it to the exact specs and just the fact that it's new would be an improvement.

This is more than needed.

this is 100% correct

Best I can remember the Jim Norick Arena (1964?) is about 10 years older than the Incomparable Myriad (1972?) and 40 years older than the Ford Center (2003?). That puts it about 60 years old in people years. Oughta be about 100 or more in arena years. Like the other Jet Age structures at the Fairgrounds, it is not considered significant in design, efficiency, or construction. Air movement is relatively crude, and seating and viewing adaptability is limited.

The New State Fair Arena is projected to cost about 15% of what the downtown arena is. It is designed so that there are several good quality seating configurations, and the mezzanine layout is a modern design where dang near everyone in the building (who isn't in the bathroom) is able to see the action on the floor.

I think the high school basketball, wrestling and other tournaments at "The Big House" are an incredible opportunity to showcase "The City" to Oklahoma families everywhere from Altus to Miami, and Guymon to Broken Bow. The economic energy of the Fairgrounds is what has the Mathis people considering building a hotel at Portland and Reno, rather than furniture retail.

this is 100% correct

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

the entire building is basically falling apart ... electrical mechanical pluming .. ect....

it is old and to keep existing business a new facility is needed ..

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

Again, when was the last time you were in this building? I was in there in February and the place is a dump and has been for quite some time. Replacing the seats would be putting lipstick on a pig.

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

Just say you haven't been in the arena and are playing devils advocate and move on. The arena doesn't represent OKC well, at all. It is falling apart, is older than most people on this board, by 15 years, and has needed replacing for 15 tears.

I It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?
).

I am curious how the economical impact of the events at the arena is compared to the Paycom Center. Paycom is larger but the arena does multiple day events that require numerous nights in hotel. Would be interesting to see what they are as I have no clue.

New Fairgrounds Coliseum plans go before city council today.

https://journalrecord.com/files/2019/12/jfs-maps-4.jpg

New projections show Oklahoma City’s 8-year penny sales tax bringing in $100 million over initial estimates, meaning the fourth rendition of the Metropolitan Area Projects capital improvement plan could be a nearly $1.08 billion initiative.--Oklahoman, Jana Hayes, 08/16/2022

$1.08 billion means that MAPS 4 Initiative is bringing in $135 million in penny sales tax collections annually.

I am curious how the economical impact of the events at the arena is compared to the Paycom Center. Paycom is larger but the arena does multiple day events that require numerous nights in hotel. Would be interesting to see what they are as I have no clue.

I think the estimated impact #s for both are in this thread somewhere, but intuitively things like horse shows have a significantly higher net impact, simply because most of the money generated is new money to the market. Certainly concerts and thunder games bring some out of market visitors, but, in the case of horse shows, it's almost entirely visitors from all over the country and internationally. In fact, horse shows are probably our biggest international draw (maybe Route 66 brings in more international victors a year, but I don't know).

So, even if the estimated gross impacts for Paycom and the fairgrounds arena were the same amounts, the net gain to the economy overall would be greater for events at the fairgrounds that draw from outside the market.

That being said, the fairgrounds gets 6/11 of the hospitality tax collected. I don't have any raw numbers of how much that actually is, but it does raise the question of why is it not enough to build a new arena without MAPS? There are reasons to question how this is being funded, but the economic significance of international horse shows, etc. is not one of them.

The fairgrounds really needs to comply with the open meetings act or be sued to do so.

Not that I am volunteering to do so.

The fairgrounds really needs to comply with the open meetings act or be sued to do so.

Not that I am volunteering to do so.

Yeah. It'd probably have to be someone with a vested interest to do so and I'm not really sure who that would be. Maybe some politician, but I don't know if it's that big of an issue to anyone to hang a campaign on. Other than that, it'd just be John Q. Taxpayer, and ain't nobody got time (or money) for that,

I can attest to the Horse Shows economic significance as we are a major vendor of a few of the shows that roll through OKC. We also handled their shows outside of OKC, but their big event in is OKC and is worth quite a bit of change. We see zero business from the events that go through the Paycom center except the Thunder, which is smaller in volume than the Horse Show business.

So knowing that MAPS is now going to bring in an extra 100M, what are the chances that the original design is put back in to play? It was originally shopped due to construction costs, but if you have the money to pay for it now.....

According to a Mayor Holt Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1559628231338127360) yesterday the extra MAPS4 funds are being proportionally distributed to the projects with an aim of accounting for construction cost inflation, I would not bet anything on that money being used to scale any given project up.

It's still amazing to me that no serious development has happened in the area surrounding the state fairground because of the fairgrounds. I would think someone would want to come in and buy properties directly to the east or that corner of NW 10th and May and do something all encompassing like hotel, bar, restaurant and not just what we have now. I live a mile north and the only thing I have seen is a small house bulldozed to build something more modern.

It's still amazing to me that no serious development has happened in the area surrounding the state fairground because of the fairgrounds. I would think someone would want to come in and buy properties directly to the east or that corner of NW 10th and May and do something all encompassing like hotel, bar, restaurant and not just what we have now. I live a mile north and the only thing I have seen is a small house bulldozed to build something more modern.I think the problem is that the areas you're talking about and the areas surrounding them have always been considered a not very desirable area of OKC. And I worked in the area for years and grew up off 36th then lived on 19th for many years. Both right off of May. A development might work if they bought up a large enough area to have the amenities plus a separation from the neighborhood.

I think the problem is that the areas you're talking about and the areas surrounding them have always been considered a not very desirable area of OKC. And I worked in the area for years and grew up off 36th then lived on 19th for many years. Both right off of May. A development might work if they bought up a large enough area to have the amenities plus a separation from the neighborhood.

And if you have children, OKCPS is not desirable either. So you'd have to be able to afford a private school or be ok with OKCPS.

And if you have children, OKCPS is not desirable either. So you'd have to be able to afford a private school or be ok with OKCPS.

Disagree!

Disagree!

As i said, or be ok with OKCPS. I'm not going to try to change your mind or anything. So if you're happy with OKCPS, then i'm glad that this is the case.

This Maps 4 project to build a new arena at the fairgrounds breaks ground on December 9th.


The Oklahoma State Fairgrounds is building a new arena on its premises.

“The project is currently out for bids with the opening of said bids scheduled for Wednesday, October 12,” Marketing Senior Vice President Scott Munz said.

A groundbreaking ceremony is scheduled for Friday, December 9. Construction is expected to begin shortly thereafter. The current estimated timeline is 24 months.

The architect, Populous, made a design presentation to the Oklahoma City Council on Tuesday, August 16, which was approved.

The design featured a 140’ x 270’ arena floor, visibility from the concourse through to the arena floor, state of the art lighting, modern concession stands, charging stations along the chair rail and more.

This is a new design concept in place of the traditional design concept of not being able to see the main floor from the concourse,” Munz said.

The current budget is sitting at just over $102 million for the building itself, he said.

A much-needed connector is not included in the $102 million budget for the new coliseum, he said. The connector would connect the new coliseum to the Super Barn.

“We are very much engaged in an ongoing effort to identify and secure the additional funding to build the connector as it needs to be to accommodate vendor space, exercise and warm-up areas and show pen space, if needed by the shows,” Munz said.


- https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/development/oklahoma-state-fairgrounds-sets-date-for-new-arena-groundbreaking/?back=super_blog

Disagree!

OKCPS consistently rank very,very low in student achievement. That’s a fact. That’s what people looking to move to OKC look at when considering to move their family here to take a job. Locals have just accepted a very low bar.

OKCPS consistently rank very,very low in student achievement. That’s a fact. That’s what people looking to move to OKC look at when considering to move their family here to take a job. Locals have just accepted a very low bar.

Almost all urban school districts in the U.S. have an "achievement gap" due to white flight, huge differences in funding and resources, and the concentration of poverty in urban schools. In short, many people with means abandon OKCPS, often on stereptypes or biases. Moreover, student achievement data is not correlated to school quality. People have this idea in their heads that kids walk into schools as blank slates and their school experiences determine their test scores. It's not true. Even if a lot of OKCPS schools were the best schools in the state, student "achievement" might still appear average. In the end, achievement scores end up deepening inequality due to the very fact that people think of test scores as an objective measurement, or "a fact."

We're a little off topic, but dankrutka the white flight statement leads that above comment to insinuate that it's a racial aspect, but i dont think that's what you were trying to say there. It's socio-economic, not racial.

One of the major aspects to that conversation is parent involvement. That contributes to the gap in a HUGE way. It's extremely difficult for parents that are working 2 or 3 jobs to be able to spend the little time they have to help with homework or participate in activities/fund raisers/etc. In these same economically depressed areas, a large number of the kids are even working as young as 14 years old just to help pay the bills. People do what they need to in order to get by, and often the school work is what gets sacrificed to put food on the table.

Almost all urban school districts in the U.S. have an "achievement gap" due to white flight, huge differences in funding and resources, and the concentration of poverty in urban schools. In short, many people with means abandon OKCPS, often on stereptypes or biases. Moreover, student achievement data is not correlated to school quality. People have this idea in their heads that kids walk into schools as blank slates and their school experiences determine their test scores. It's not true. Even if a lot of OKCPS schools were the best schools in the state, student "achievement" might still appear average. In the end, achievement scores end up deepening inequality due to the very fact that people think of test scores as an objective measurement, or "a fact."
On average OK public schools pay less and get less qualified teachers, and get less performance. The better teachers leave the state or go to private schools. What you are implying is that it’s all the kids’ fault. That’s a cop out.

Unless any of you have been on the receiving in of dealing with the ugliness of segregation and racial discrimination you will never know the hurt and humiliation associated with these acts. Keeping a level head without allowing yourself to become desensitize requires me to continue to practice what I preach about treating people with respect. Being able to admit when you are wrong and it's never harmful to offer a sincere genuine apology.

It's easy to look the other way and call it something you don't experience everyday of being denied basic rights and frowned upon; looked down on--sometimes with pity as this trait becomes ingrained in some people's daily lives. No, some of you don't see it and you probably never will see it; because fortunately for you, you don't have to deal with it. What is 'IT,' if you don't know by now--it's not going to matter--because no one is trying to shame you or make you feel the inadequacies others have felt in their struggles to gain respect and be treated with human dignity.

Am I mad or angry--NO, it's disappointment because you see the progress being made which gives hope to future generations. There are more important things I want to continue to be concerned with in my life than to allow myself to be driven by hate and revenge that's more harmful to me than to those who spend their lives oppressing others.

I'm not saying we should be treated with kid gloves when all we've asking is to be treated with respect. None of us can make right the 'wrongs' of generations, so you move on and make each day better. Sure, there will be scars in the process--don't carry the weight of those scars and allow yourself to be pulled down as a result. Continue on with 'Respect.'

The same respect and dignity man wants to be treated with--we all have struggles and we all have to recognize life for what it is. Just saying, make the most of your life in the way you treat your fellow man.

Dan, you work with this daily, you recognize the struggles and I admire your commitment to education--keep up the good work.

.

We're a little off topic, but dankrutka the white flight statement leads that above comment to insinuate that it's a racial aspect, but i dont think that's what you were trying to say there. It's socio-economic, not racial.

One of the major aspects to that conversation is parent involvement. That contributes to the gap in a HUGE way. It's extremely difficult for parents that are working 2 or 3 jobs to be able to spend the little time they have to help with homework or participate in activities/fund raisers/etc. In these same economically depressed areas, a large number of the kids are even working as young as 14 years old just to help pay the bills. People do what they need to in order to get by, and often the school work is what gets sacrificed to put food on the table.

It is socioeconomic and racial. There's consistent evidence that race deepens segregation and white families have more social mobility for housing and schooling. Moreover, a lot of white parents rule out schools with large Black or Latinx populations right off the bat. They assume these schools are worse even when they are not.

I taught in the OKC area. When I taught at Edmond Santa Fe, I heard teachers espouse anti-Black racism because a new freshman class had more Black students than previous years. Santa Fe started being called the "ghetto" school. It was all racism that affected enrollment. It wasn't just parents who didn't want Black students at the school, it was teachers. It's absolutely infuriating.

It is socioeconomic and racial. There's consistent evidence that race deepens segregation and white families have more social mobility for housing and schooling. Moreover, a lot of white parents rule out schools with large Black or Latinx populations right off the bat. They assume these schools are worse even when they are not.

I taught in the OKC area. When I taught at Edmond Santa Fe, I heard teachers espouse anti-Black racism because a new freshman class had more Black students than previous years. Santa Fe started being called the "ghetto" school. It was all racism that affected enrollment. It wasn't just parents who didn't want Black students at the school, it was teachers. It's absolutely infuriating.

I'm sorry to hear that happened before you. Back when I was at school, I always heard things like Star Spencer, Douglass, Northeast Academy, Millwood being the ghetto schools. But they didn't dare put Classen SAS on that list because of their test scores, despite that school being heavily mixed. I assumed it was just the test scores... until I went to Harding Fine Arts Academy. Then I got into an environment made of teachers who were more open minded and well-educated. I realized then it wasn't the students that are the malfactor, it's the teachers who wanted to have you watch a move and do a test based on that movie.

Seriously, my social studies teacher in 10th grade had us do a test on the movie 300. Meanwhile my government teacher in 11th grade was teaching us the actual history of the state, including the not-so-shiny parts. My heart goes out to her, she was a real one.

This project is receiving $20 from the states “PREP” fund for assistance:


In addition to ARPA funds, the Legislature also appropriated $20 million from the state’s PREP Fund for a new multipurpose exhibit and educational building at the State Fairgrounds as well as a new extension, which will connect the Super Barn to the new coliseum.

- https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/policy/state-lawmakers-approve-63-million-in-arpa-prep-funds-for-chamber-supported-okc-projects/?back=super_blog

Pete, wasn’t the barn extension axed? So now it seems it’s back on?

Pete, wasn’t the barn extension axed? So now it seems it’s back on?

it was axed from the Maps project .... it has always been planned ..

When they got the bids back for the new arena, they didn't have MAPS budget to cover the extension so it was removed from the initial bid.

Looks like they have found an alternative funding source for it.

Thanks the replies. I’m happy to see it was brought back. This will be a cool project to watch.

Work is starting on the new MAPS 4 Coliseum.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fairgrounds020523a.jpg


The first step will be to demolish the southeast section of Norick Arena as the new facility will be built directly adjacent. Norick will continue to operate during the new construction which should wrap up in two years' time. The area to be razed is fenced off and will soon come down.

Once the new coliseum is finished, the old one will be completely demolished and a connector will be built between the new arena and the super barn facility.

Jim Norick Arena was completed in 1965. The new coliseum will cost over $100 million from MAPS and hotel tax revenue and feature 7,320 seats, a wide modern concourse and improved concessions and amenities.



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This isn't the final design, right?

I can't believe we are losing that prime parking lot for this, now we will have to walk for the state fair!!

/s

I wonder if we will finally see some sort of landscaping as planned in the site design. I also wonder if the Norwick Arena has any asbestos or not.

I wonder why they didn't combined phase 1 and 2. Only a little section of the old arena needs to be demolished to make room. They could have started excavating and installing foundation piers for over 90 percent of the structure.

I can't believe we are losing that prime parking lot for this, now we will have to walk for the state fair!!

/s

I wonder if we will finally see some sort of landscaping as planned in the site design. I also wonder if the Norwick Arena has any asbestos or not.

If only there was something like a parking garage.. Or even over flow parking at osu-okc with a pedestrian bridge.

A hockey team in that building would be awesome!

A hockey team in that building would be awesome!

Nah, they cater to horses. They dont want to take that dirt out any more often than they have to. Forget all the other things that use the arena...they're just important. Let alone someone with an actual long-term use. Pshaw.


Or so goes their logic.....

A hockey team in that building would be awesome!

Pipe dream but would love to catch a Bedlam (UCO/OU) Hockey series here sometime. This arena reminds me of a slightly larger version of Arizona State's new arena which hosts ASU Hockey and the Arizona Coyotes (NHL-Short term). I can't speak to OU but UCO has an extremely passionate following for Hockey and the program has had great success. Problem is that Artic Edge is far too small to host Bedlam and always sells out but this arena would be far too big.

17856

Nah, they cater to horses. They dont want to take that dirt out any more often than they have to. Forget all the other things that use the arena...they're just important. Let alone someone with an actual long-term use. Pshaw.


Or so goes their logic.....
I agree completely that it's never going to happen. But they wouldn't have to remove the dirt. Smooth it out some. Place the liner. Fill with water and freeze. Not all that different from the NHL games that have been played at baseball stadiums the past few years.

The groundbreaking has happened: https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1628495584461049857


This was a great day for Oklahoma City as we broke ground on the first @maps4okc project - the Fairgrounds Coliseum. This is just the beginning, as $1.1 billion rolls out over the next decade to construct 16 projects that will improve our city’s quality of life.

This specific project will replace the Norick Arena and sustain the hundreds of events that occur there every year, almost all of which bring thousands of visitors to our city, spurring economic development and tax revenues that benefit us all. The MAPS story continues!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpmUGgEXgAIyMbE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpmUON0WcAIE3Ll?format=jpg&name=large

Press release:

************

Construction begins on MAPS 3 and 4 OKC Fairgrounds Coliseum
Jim Norick Arena will continue to host events during Coliseum’s construction
02/22/2023

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/statefair022223a.jpg

City leaders broke ground today on the MAPS 3 and 4 OKC Fairgrounds Coliseum.

The 216,164-square-foot coliseum will be operated by Oklahoma State Fair, Inc. at the OKC Fairgrounds. Construction is scheduled to be complete in 2025. The Jim Norick Arena will continue to host events, just as it has since 1965, until the new coliseum opens.

“The Fairgrounds are a catalyst for Oklahoma City’s tourism industry,” MAPS 4 Program Manager David Todd said. “The 58-year-old Jim Norick Arena is home to numerous national and international horse shows along with the Cattlemen’s Congress which collectively generate in excess of $150 million annually. The new coliseum will allow Oklahoma City to remain dominant in the horse show world and continue to be an economic driver for tourism for the state of Oklahoma for the next 50 years.”

The MAPS 3 and 4 Fairgrounds Coliseum will feature seating for more than 7,000 people, a lounge, suites, a full-service restaurant and several upscale concession areas, an A/V suite and a sophisticated catwalk system. The new coliseum will be built to the south of the Jim Norick Arena and come all the way up to the footprint of the current arena.

“The new OKC Fairgrounds Coliseum will be a very special venue and will put Oklahoma City in an advantageous position in the marketplace,” Oklahoma State Fair, Inc. President & CEO Kirk Slaughter said. “The Coliseum is designed to host the top equestrian and ag-related events in the world. The venue will be great for many sporting and entertainment events, including the productions held during the legendary Oklahoma State Fair. The Coliseum will be a game changer for Oklahoma City.”

The $126-million project is funded through MAPS 3, MAPS 4, hotel tax revenue and other funding sources.

History of Jim Norick Arena

State Fair Arena, as it was originally called, debuted in September 1965. Costing $2.4 million to build, the arena was financed in part by an OKC city bond with the remaining funds coming from the Oklahoma State Fair.

The arena was rechristened the Jim Norick Arena in 1971 to honor Oklahoma City’s elected mayor, who served from 1959-1963 and again from 1967-1971.

In 1974, legendary rodeo announcer Clem McSpadden arranged for an unknown singer named Reba McEntire from Chockie, Oklahoma, to sing the Star-Spangled Banner at the National Finals Rodeo (NFR). Little did they know her Oklahoma City performance would change Reba’s life forever and set her rise to superstardom in motion.

Over the years, in addition to the NFR, the Jim Norick Arena hosted a wide variety of sporting events, horse shows, circus performances and iconic concerts including Elvis Presley, Led Zeppelin, .38 Special and Chris LeDoux.

Learn more about the MAPS 3 and 4 Fairgrounds coliseum at okc.gov/government/maps-4/fairgrounds-coliseum.

MAPS = Fairgrounds slush fund.

For all of the arguments that the fairgrounds generate this or have a revenue stream (both of which are true), can't help but notice more than 70% of the development cost of this and most fairgrounds projects are from MAPS or other city initiatives. And for the arguments that Paycom was fully publicly funded, it doesn't have a revenue stream like fairgrounds does (aka hotel-motel tax). It's not apples to apples, but the orange that always pops its head whenever there's a city initiative - yet they couldn't do any proposals to keep/maintain the heritage venues that have been removed.

This is my biggest beef with the fairgrounds, no transparency and yet they keep getting city funds. I'm not against them but can they at least be voted in by the public and/or have public review of their operations and master plans? You know, similar to all other MAPS projects - including Paycom.

^^ I can't figure out why the OKC fairgrounds doesn't have something like this - https://www.exposquare.com/p/about/public-information

Especially with the amount of public funds that get sent that way.

^^ I can't figure out why the OKC fairgrounds doesn't have something like this - https://www.exposquare.com/p/about/public-information

Especially with the amount of public funds that get sent that way.

Because the powers in OKC don't want it that way and have successfully fought against it and there's currently no path that anybody knows to force them to do it. Guessing there would have to be lawsuits galore to get to that, and not sure anybody here in OKC has that much money, willpower, and perseverence.

Random thought: Do the 23 new shovels that the taxpayers bought for a photo op go to city maintenance or donated? I love the pile of dirt they had to truck in and dump on the sidewalk. Even though the whole site will be a pile of dirt here in a few weeks.

Random thought: Do the 23 new shovels that the taxpayers bought for a photo op go to city maintenance or donated?

I can't speak for OKC but I have a couple of gold painted shovels from my dad's time as a councilman for Edmond from groundbreaking ceremonies.

we can start with the city council, getting people who agree to hold these yokels accountable.

Not saying they can't be on the fair board or whatever, but can we have some public accountability? Can the public be at least invited to their master plan or know what it is? Can the public have a say if the fairgrounds should ALSO be included in MAPS? I hate that they continue to get added with the knowledge of a rubber stamp approval because the public wants other projects in the all-or-nothing game.

Again, Im not against development but I do think they should be held accountable just like the other MAPS projects which do have public involvement A-Z and are scrutinized heavily with periodic public meetings and status reports.

^^^^
I do not agree.

I have been a business neighbor of the Fairgrounds for 40 years. I drive by and observe it over 350 days a year. It stays busy year round. The board of directors is a who’s-who of local business and civic leadership. There are no crooks.

I think leadership prefers to keep a low profile and isn’t concerned with making everyone aware of all that goes on there.

The only thing I really wish they would do is partner with next door neighbor OSU-OKC and open a 24 hour animal hospital on site. The fairgrounds are more full of high value animals than anywhere else in the city.

The only thing I really wish they would do is partner with next door neighbor OSU-OKC and open a 24 hour animal hospital on site. The fairgrounds are more full of high value animals than anywhere else in the city.
This is a great idea, especially given the livestock focus of the “fair” now.

^^^^
I think leadership prefers to keep a low profile and isn’t concerned with making everyone aware of all that goes on there.


That's sort of the root right? It may be that it's entirely up to snuff. But when it's done in a black box where no one gets to know what is happening, then people start assuming that it's nefarious. I mean there's plenty of that going on here.

When you allow the public to be aware, that means they start asking for accountability. I really think that's part of the root problem....it doesn't at least APPEAR, that they want to have that public input/accountability. It's pretty cozy today. They say what they want, and the city provides. They claim without X, that the horses will leave, so the city provides. Now, these guys aren't getting extra money in their pockets for this (i'm going to make that assumption) rather the product they are pushing (fairgrounds) is getting the amenities that they want.

When this project is done, my hope is that they put the same amount of interest in to the rest of the grounds. We should be plum out of horse crap (pun). Let's focus on making the grounds themselves of the same quality. This many millions of dollars would go a LONG way for landscaping and spaces.

so because the fair board is full of who's who, then we dont need to hold them accountable. Got it. Sounds like good ole boy and exactly what has been allowed to happened to the fairgrounds. So and so is on the board so they get carte blanche and also get #1 spot on MAPS with 70% funding paid-in-full.

This IS the problem Dob H. You like the fair/practices as-is because it benefits you personally/professionally. But that doesn't mean its right for the city or a normal citizen. And again, I'm not saying the fair board should change, just that we should have them account for their actions especially since they always show up for city initiative dollars and expect everyone to line up. They have dedicated funding sources that other venues DONT and they supposedly have such a big impact - so why can't they be more self functioning since they dont want to be accountable to the public?

They're having their cake and eating it too, and first at that. This is what's wrong and needs to change, not necessarily the board or their mission (as long as the public is informed and approves).

Many of members on the State Fair Board are honorable and they serve as a civic duty without pay.

We lost all the major iconic structures (Space Tower, Monorail, Grandstand Speedway, Derrick clock tower, Spirit of '76 Arch) were historic symbols of the State Fair Park.

The speedway was unpopular with neighborhoods because of the noise it generated within a mile radius.

What we could replace with estimates:


http://bigtex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/TOPOTEXASTower-300x200.png https://okcmod.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/monorail-fairgrounds-1968-300x204.jpg
Space Tower ($20 million & Monorail ($5 million)
https://img.geocaching.com/waymarking/display/390c2ca4-4915-4f0c-aaaf-d126d8a968dd.JPG http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5CBv6NpcvaBpmBBbe-JjT3CKZ0P5Wo3671sEzYv4F5nDOn0ODPwH9SW3yF1HuDyljT3s 7hcAX_Z5ljZcSDBv_aa1=s200-c
Derrick Tower Clock ($2 million) & Arch Entrance ($2 million)




Space Tower was 330 feet high/ $450,000 in 1968 - OKC budget $20 million (600 feet tower)

Monorail, OKC budget $5 million to circle the fair.
Tower Clock 70 feet - OKC budget $2 million
Arch entrance 100 feet OKC budget $2 million

Oklahoma State Fair could replace these 4 structures with a $30 million budget.


.

Drone view Month 1 of the construction video on Youtube at https://youtu.be/j_5cYyF2RzQ

Drone view Month 1 of the construction video on Youtube at https://youtu.be/j_5cYyF2RzQ

Fantastic.

Thanks so much.