Let us do what Andy Griffith would call "if'in."

If you were to take the possibility of the Hornets staying in Oklahoma City as a court trial, would you say, based on evidence alone they are staying? (be realistic on your answer)

1. The NBA and George Shinn took very careful steps to select Okalahoma City

2. The broadcast contract with Cox is being re-negotiated for Oklahoma City

3. so far, 7500 season tickets have been reserved, which is nearly all of the season tickets available.

4. The Honey Bees (dancers) are being recruited from Oklahoma City instead of New Orleans.

5. The national media is starting to say Oklahoma City IS home to the Hornets

6. Shinn and the NBA have said they are not happy with the draw in New Orleans and would like a city similar to Charlotte.

7. The team is being heavily promoted

8. The websites now say NO/Oklahoma City Hornets.

9. The broadcast team may not come with the team.

10. 25,000 square feet of office space is being leased to the team. More than a temporary team would need.

11. New Orleans had more flooding as a result of Rita.

12. The local television websites now have a site for the Hornets.

13. It took only minutes for the internet to change the name of the team.

14. A great deal of fanfare was made with the relocation.

15. A great deal of money was invested to bring the team here. For one year, that seems strange.

16. Corporate Oklahoma is embracing the team.

I could probably think of more. I am convinced that the probiblity of this team dropping the name New Orleans starting with the 2007-2008 season is high.

Let us do what Andy Griffith would call "if'in."

If you were to take the possibility of the Hornets staying in Oklahoma City as a court trial, would you say, based on evidence alone they are staying? (be realistic on your answer)

1. The NBA and George Shinn took very careful steps to select Okalahoma City


So?


2. The broadcast contract with Cox is being re-negotiated for Oklahoma City

Yes, but that isn't surprising.


3. so far, 7500 season tickets have been reserved, which is nearly all of the season tickets available.

As would be expected.


4. The Honey Bees (dancers) are being recruited from Oklahoma City instead of New Orleans.

Those damn lazy NO Honey Bees. Most of them have only lost their homes and most of their possessions. What's their problem?


5. The national media is starting to say Oklahoma City IS home to the Hornets

Provide examples. Everything I've heard or read talks about the NEW ORLEANS Hornets.


6. Shinn and the NBA have said they are not happy with the draw in New Orleans and would like a city similar to Charlotte.

First of all the NBA has had no problem with the team being in New Orleans. They sold out all but a handful of their home games last year, which isn't bad for a team that only won 18 games. And I haven't read anything about Shinn being unhappy in New Orleans. Quite the contrary, he's said he's been happy about the way the city has embraced the team.


7. The team is being heavily promoted

As they have in New Orleans. Besides, OKC has put alot of money into this thing, they don't want it to fail.


8. The websites now say NO/Oklahoma City Hornets.

You need new glasses. The title of the Hornets' site is "The Official Site of the New Orleans Hornets/Oklahoma City".


9. The broadcast team may not come with the team.

They already have, but this wouldn't mean anything.


10. 25,000 square feet of office space is being leased to the team. More than a temporary team would need.

Because teams temporarily locate all the time, right? The team had to bring almost all of their activities here due to the conditions in NO. Besides, the city gave them more space than they needed. They're not paying for any of it.


11. New Orleans had more flooding as a result of Rita.

Most of which was gone in a day or two. The city is dry now.


12. The local television websites now have a site for the Hornets.

This also means nothing. Besides, so do the New Orleans TV sites.


13. It took only minutes for the internet to change the name of the team.

Funny thing about the internet. You can do things quickly on it.


14. A great deal of fanfare was made with the relocation.

That's because nothing like this has happened before. The great OKC hype machine at work.


15. A great deal of money was invested to bring the team here. For one year, that seems strange.

Not really. The mayor and city council see this as an investment in the future. Not in the Hornets, necessarily, but it an expansion or relocated NBA/NHL team.


16. Corporate Oklahoma is embracing the team.

Big surprise.


I could probably think of more. I am convinced that the probiblity of this team dropping the name New Orleans starting with the 2007-2008 season is high.

It's not that simple. The NBA has rules in place for team relocation. An owner can't just leave because he feels like it. So, the "probibility" is quite low.

can you say SOUR GRAPE

The Hornets' temporary move to OKC is filling the blogosphere. Here is a nice take on the situation from Erik Cassano's Weblog:


Hornets on the move
You thought the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim was a contrived fluke of bi-municipality representation?

Get ready for the New Orleans Hornets of Oklahoma City.
Last week, the Hornets received permission from the NBA to relocate 35 home dates to the Ford Center in Oklahoma's capital city. Despite NBA commish David Stern calling the move "temporary," it might not be.

Sad as it is to say, the damage caused by Hurricane Katrina could be the out Hornets owner Geroge Shinn was looking for. The New Orleans Arena is unusable for this NBA season, and there are no guarantees it will be serviceable by the time the 2006-07 season comes around.

Indeed, there are no guarantees the arena or the neighboring Superdome might be standing by November 2006. Officials in New Orleans are still in the process of clearing out the wasted city and it might be until next year before they can decide which buildings are structurally sound and which aren't.

Shinn brought the Hornets to New Orleans in 2002 after he alienated most of Charlotte. Coached by Paul Silas and Tim Floyd, and led by Baron Davis, the Hornets made the playoffs their first two seasons in New Orleans. But then they moved to the more competitive Western Conference to make way for the expansion Charlotte Bobcats last year, and fell to a final record of 18-64. Only the pitiful Hawks had a worse record.

Attendance dwindled, Davis was dealt to Golden State, and much like iin Charlotte, the locals in New Orleans were cooling toward their basketball team and toward the team's owner.

If Katrina hadn't forced the Hornets to try on another city for size, Shinn probably would have done so without prompting sooner or later. Rumors had him eyeing Kansas City or St. Louis, two former NBA towns, and among the largest cities in the country without an NBA franchise.

Shinn is quickly gaining a reputation as the Larry Brown of owners, always looking over the fence to see where the grass might be greener.

But this isn't all on the shoulders of Shinn or all a direct result of Katrina. New Orleans has been an NBA black hole before. In the late 1970s, Louisiana State product Pete Maravich couldn't save the Jazz from flunking out of New Orleans and moving to Salt Lake City, where they were eventually greeted by John Stockton, Karl Malone and far greater success.

Oklahoma City might be this decade's Salt Lake City. Oklahoma City is a town that would like to forge a national identity apart from being known as the city where Timothy McVeigh set off a bomb and destroyed hundreds of lives. A major league sports franchise would allow other cities and the national media to take a peek inside Oklahoma City on a nightly basis.

Oklahoma City has a 19,000-seat arena suitable for NBA basketball. It is a growing city, among the largest in the U.S. without a major league sports team. That's all about to change, and don't expect Oklahomans to give the Hornets back after one season without a fight. They reportedly have already filled out thousands of season ticket applications for the Hornets.

The Hornets have agreed to play seven home dates on the LSU campus in Baton Rouge, so it doesn't give the impression they are totally abandoning their New Orelans fans in their hour of need. But the NBA is a business, and Shinn will take his team where it will be welcomed with open arms, and more importantly, open pocketbooks.

If that is any forecast, the Oklahoma City Hornets will be a fixture by the start of the 2006-07 season.

Shinn is quickly gaining a reputation as the Larry Brown of owners, always looking over the fence to see where the grass might be greener.


Shinn is the main reason why I don't want the Hornets in OKC long term. He'll say one thing to you, then turn around and say something completely different. Who's to say he won't stay here until KC's new arena is built?

Nobody's saying Shinn's a saint, but we'll still enjoy the Hornets and make the most of this opportunity one way or another, either through a sale to a local owner, or the great impression we'll have on the NBA. Oklahoma City will be seen as a market the way it never has before.

Nobody's saying Shinn's a saint, but we'll still enjoy the Hornets and make the most of this opportunity one way or another, either through a sale to a local owner, or the great impression we'll have on the NBA -- no matter how long they stay. Oklahoma City will be seen as a market the way it never has before.

"Nobody's saying Shinn's a saint"

I thought he was a Hornet.

"Nobody's saying Shinn's a saint"

I thought he was a Hornet.

Ha ha.

Who has their tickets?? My husband purchased ours!

Shinn's not one of the great owners in pro sports, but then again the Rams moved into St. Louis and Georgia F. had a HORRIBLE reputation, and the club's been run very very well all along, first class. The implication seemed to be that Shinn would move the team here, and that in four years they'd go to Vegas or wherever. I doubt that seriously.
OKCTERINTUL missed badly on the attendence thing, by the way. NO Hornets had among the worst attendence numbers in the NBA last year. Yes, the team had a rotten record but that's after being a very consistant winner for a long time, and only a couple of years after the move. New Orleans wasn't a great pro sports city before Katrina. It's sad for the fans there but there are going to be an awful lot of good reasons for the team not to move back. Don't judge N.O. for pro basketball on what it WAS, look at what it will be. The population's going to be much, much smaller and what funding their is for economic development's going to view basketball as a back burner issue, probably. A lot of people are going to be in bad straits financially for some time, and spending to go to a basketball game may not be the top priority. We'll see, maybe Louisiana will bounce back quicker than I think, but I'd be surprised. Neither the Hornets nor the Saints should be forced to stay in a market that may not be able to adequately support a pro franchise just because we feel sorry for the people there. Otherwise the Jazz would still be there (another factor to bear in mind, they've already failed once to support an NBA team...of course, the same can be said, TWICE, for baseball in D.C.)

Shinn's not one of the great owners in pro sports, but then again the Rams moved into St. Louis and Georgia F. had a HORRIBLE reputation, and the club's been run very very well all along, first class. The implication seemed to be that Shinn would move the team here, and that in four years they'd go to Vegas or wherever. I doubt that seriously.

Tell that to the folks in Charlotte. Or, maybe now, New Orleans. Georgia F only moved her team once, and that was mainly because she was tired of her football team playing in a baseball stadium.


OKCTERINTUL missed badly on the attendence thing, by the way. NO Hornets had among the worst attendence numbers in the NBA last year. Yes, the team had a rotten record but that's after being a very consistant winner for a long time, and only a couple of years after the move.

Hmm...I didn't mean to implicate they had good attendance last year. But the first year after the move.


New Orleans wasn't a great pro sports city before Katrina.

The Saints have sucked for years, could be a reason.


It's sad for the fans there but there are going to be an awful lot of good reasons for the team not to move back. Don't judge N.O. for pro basketball on what it WAS, look at what it will be. The population's going to be much, much smaller and what funding their is for economic development's going to view basketball as a back burner issue, probably. A lot of people are going to be in bad straits financially for some time, and spending to go to a basketball game may not be the top priority. We'll see, maybe Louisiana will bounce back quicker than I think, but I'd be surprised. Neither the Hornets nor the Saints should be forced to stay in a market that may not be able to adequately support a pro franchise just because we feel sorry for the people there. Otherwise the Jazz would still be there (another factor to bear in mind, they've already failed once to support an NBA team...of course, the same can be said, TWICE, for baseball in D.C.)

I actually agree with all of this. I wouldn't feel sorry for them if they lose their teams, I just don't think a natural disaster should necessarily be an out, especially if the teams can be part of the recovery.

Hmmm, anyone think that OKCERINTUL could be a bitter NO fan?

Hmmm, anyone think that OKCERINTUL could be a bitter NO fan?

Hmmm, can anyone think of a reason why a native Oklahoma Citian who currently resides in Tulsa and has never been to New Orleans would be a bitter New Orleans fan?

Then, what else could be your motivation? You sure felt compelled to rebut each of mr. anderson's points with a decidedly pro-new orleans, anti OKC slant.

Then, what else could be your motivation? You sure felt compelled to rebut each of mr. anderson's points with a decidedly pro-new orleans, anti OKC slant.

It most certainly wasn't anti-OKC. I was just stating facts. I have no real motivation, I just feel the team should remain in New Orleans unless and until ownership decides it is in the best interest of the team to move. People here seem to the think the team is here to stay, and that's the wrong stance to take, in my opinion. OKC is and should be thought of as just a temporary place for the team to play. Trust me, OKC shouldn't want a George Shinn-owned team here permanently. He'll jerk everyone around.

It most certainly wasn't anti-OKC. I was just stating facts. I have no real motivation, I just feel the team should remain in New Orleans unless and until ownership decides it is in the best interest of the team to move. People here seem to the think the team is here to stay, and that's the wrong stance to take, in my opinion. OKC is and should be thought of as just a temporary place for the team to play. Trust me, OKC shouldn't want a George Shinn-owned team here permanently. He'll jerk everyone around.

"jerking" people around remains to be seen. Frankly, I am sorry the city got the team the way it did, however, we need to be thankful the NBA has deemed Oklahoma City a major league market and accept the gift we are receiving. New Orleans may get another chance eventually.

It most certainly wasn't anti-OKC. I was just stating facts. I have no real motivation, I just feel the team should remain in New Orleans unless and until ownership decides it is in the best interest of the team to move. People here seem to the think the team is here to stay, and that's the wrong stance to take, in my opinion. OKC is and should be thought of as just a temporary place for the team to play. Trust me, OKC shouldn't want a George Shinn-owned team here permanently. He'll jerk everyone around.

Interesting that you are so interested in promoting the cause for the Hornets to stay in NO. Why should we just consider the Hornet's stay here to be temporary? Why is it the wrong stance to simply want the team here? Why should we "trust you" that we don't want a George Shinn owned team here? Are you really an ex charlotte Hornets fan? If so, seems like you'd want to them to move to OKC.

"jerking" people around remains to be seen.

Really? Ask the folks in Charlotte. Or New Orleans.


Frankly, I am sorry the city got the team the way it did, however, we need to be thankful the NBA has deemed Oklahoma City a major league market and accept the gift we are receiving. New Orleans may get another chance eventually.

The city didn't "get" the team. And why would New Orleans get another chance when the Hornets are still theirs? See, this is the type of attitude I'm talking about. People assuming that this team is OKC's now even though it's far from being so.

Interesting that you are so interested in promoting the cause for the Hornets to stay in NO. Why should we just consider the Hornet's stay here to be temporary? Why is it the wrong stance to simply want the team here?

Let me draw you a picture. Let's say a tornado strikes downtown OKC, and the Blazers are forced to play their games in another city. Let's use Little Rock as an example. How would you feel if the team suddenly became the Oklahoma City/Little Rock Blazers, and fans in Little Rock were hoping the team stayed. I'm sure you'll say it would be no big deal. If you don't see anything wrong with wanting to keep a team that had to flee it's hometown due to a natural disaster, then I would suspect you are not a very sympathetic individual.


Why should we "trust you" that we don't want a George Shinn owned team here? Are you really an ex charlotte Hornets fan? If so, seems like you'd want to them to move to OKC.

LOL! I'm not a Hornets fan at all. But Shinn's track record speaks for itself.

Really? Ask the folks in Charlotte. Or New Orleans.



The city didn't "get" the team. And why would New Orleans get another chance when the Hornets are still theirs? See, this is the type of attitude I'm talking about. People assuming that this team is OKC's now even though it's far from being so.

Comment number one: "Bitterness is a sour taste in ones mouth." Willie Wonka to Grandpa Joe in "Charlie and the chocolate factory."

Comment number two: I do not "assume." Nor do I "presume." I use logic skills based on experience.

Comment number one: "Bitterness is a sour taste in ones mouth." Willie Wonka to Grandpa Joe in "Charlie and the chocolate factory."

Okay. Sorry, but I tend not to take people seriously who quote from children's movies.


Comment number two: I do not "assume." Nor do I "presume." I use logic skills based on experience.

I see. So what "logical skills based on experience" have you used to deduce that the Hornets are in Oklahoma City for good? I can't wait to hear, especially since something like this has never occurred.

When the team came to town temporarily, nothing was ever mentioned by either the mayor, the team owner, or the NBA about the team being here permanently. So, yes, saying they are here permanently is nothing more than an assumption at this point.

Okay. Sorry, but I tend not to take people seriously who quote from children's movies.



I see. So what "logical skills based on experience" have you used to deduce that the Hornets are in Oklahoma City for good? I can't wait to hear, especially since something like this has never occurred.

When the team came to town temporarily, nothing was ever mentioned by either the mayor, the team owner, or the NBA about the team being here permanently. So, yes, saying they are here permanently is nothing more than an assumption at this point.

Comment number one: Think about what I said.

Comment number two: Read all my posts and you will find your answer.

Comment number one: Think about what I said.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm bitter. Although no one seems to know why, as I have no reason to be bitter.


Comment number two: Read all my posts and you will find your answer.

Funny, I've read many of your posts and haven't read much of anything logical in them. Just assumptions that you call facts.

"Funny, I've read many of your posts and haven't read much of anything logical in them. Just assumptions that you call facts."

"Many" is not all. I suggest reading every one of the 3,509 posts I have made, then you will learn that I know how corprations work. Plus, I NEVER "assume." Think about that, please.

"Funny, I've read many of your posts and haven't read much of anything logical in them. Just assumptions that you call facts."

"Many" is not all. I suggest reading every one of the 3,509 posts I have made, then you will learn that I know how corprations work. Plus, I NEVER "assume." Think about that, please.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to waste reading all of your posts. And I'm sure you know much more about 'corprations' than I do. Regardless, you do make alot of assumptions. Statements NOT based on fact are indeed assumptions. Think about that.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to waste reading all of your posts. And I'm sure you know much more about 'corprations' than I do. Regardless, you do make alot of assumptions. Statements NOT based on fact are indeed assumptions. Think about that.

Frankly, I do not need to think about anything, and, once again, I do NOT "assume." Nor do I "presume." I use logic based on that knowlege I have been given. This debate is concluded since some people:banghead: will not accept some people know how businesses operate.

Frankly, I do not need to think about anything, and, once again, I do NOT "assume." Nor do I "presume." I use logic based on that knowlege I have been given. This debate is concluded since some people:banghead: will not accept some people know how businesses operate.

Very funny, considering you have no idea what I do for a living. But yes, I agree it is best that this conversation end.

Frankly, I do not need to think about anything, and, once again, I do NOT "assume." Nor do I "presume." I use logic based on that knowlege I have been given. This debate is concluded since some people:banghead: will not accept some people know how businesses operate.

Seems to me that you are making the assumption that you are the only person on OKCTalk that knows a lot about the business world. ;)