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Pete
03-18-2016, 10:06 AM
So, my first few months back in Oklahoma have yielded more driving-related incidents than my previous 25 in California.

Yesterday morning, I was turning right onto NW 10th from Robinson. All the on-coming traffic was in the left lane, so I made my turn into the right lane.

Some idiot who was in the left hand lane either thought I was gong to pull out in front of him or quickly decided to change into the right hand lane as I pulled out. Either way, he blew his horn and continued to lean on it for a very long time (even though I had already pulled out into the roadway) and when I looked in my rearview he was right behind me frothing at the mouth and shooting me the finger.

Keep in mind the speed limit here is 30 MPH and everyone was slowing down for the red light at Broadway. Whatever the inconvenience to him (and I'm not sure I was even the slightest bit at fault here), it was very minor but he was losing it behind me and as soon as the light turned green he revved up and got right on my tail and almost hit me as I made the right turn onto Broadway.

I parked at the curb to hop into Coffee Slingers and he pulled up next to me -- stopping in the middle of traffic -- rolled down his window and went completely apesh!t. I didn't say a word, just went inside and he pealed off south, screeching away and still going completely mental.

What I should have done, of course, is pulled out my phone and recorded his tirade and threats, then filmed his license plate, etc.

Now, if I had done that would there be anything the police could or would do?

dankrutka
03-18-2016, 10:12 AM
That's crazy. I've lived in this part of the country (Oklahoma-Kansas-Texas) and never experienced a road rage incident that serious in my life, but I've heard of others who've had similar experiences.

Teo9969
03-18-2016, 10:16 AM
California has made you soft, Pete. The correct answer is to pull out your piece and solve the problem permanently ;)

As an aside, I'd absolutely love to see that guy drive down here. He would literally have an aneurism within 10 minutes!!!

TU 'cane
03-18-2016, 10:16 AM
Oklahoma drivers are stupid. It's not that they're bad drivers, per se, just that they're stupid.

Stuff like that is extremely upsetting, but being on the receiving and giving end of such actions (justified and not), I've learned that in almost 99% of the instances it's best to just keep your cool and shake it off. Don't let it ruin your day. Give a wave and be on with it.

Funny thing is though, is when I drove through Southern Cal, it was enough to make me never want to go back and I missed the traffic and drivers back home, of all things.

OkiePoke
03-18-2016, 10:27 AM
People don't know the laws of the road. Mainly, staying in your lane through intersections. One should be able to make a right hand turn and stay in their lane as other traffic is making a left onto the same road as long as they stay in their lane. I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing, slow, easy-going, going with the flow, of driving or what.

OKCRT
03-18-2016, 10:44 AM
So, my first few months back in Oklahoma have yielded more driving-related incidents than my previous 25 in California.

Yesterday morning, I was turning right onto NW 10th from Robinson. All the on-coming traffic was in the left lane, so I made my turn into the right lane.

Some idiot who was in the left hand lane either thought I was gong to pull out in front of him or quickly decided to change into the right hand lane as I pulled out. Either way, he blew his horn and continued to lean on it for a very long time (even though I had already pulled out into the roadway) and when I looked in my rearview he was right behind me frothing at the mouth and shooting me the finger.

Keep in mind the speed limit here is 30 MPH and everyone was slowing down for the red light at Broadway. Whatever the inconvenience to him (and I'm not sure I was even the slightest bit at fault here), it was very minor but he was losing it behind me and as soon as the light turned green he revved up and got right on my tail and almost hit me as I made the right turn onto Broadway.

I parked at the curb to hop into Coffee Slingers and he pulled up next to me -- stopping in the middle of traffic -- rolled down his window and went completely apesh!t. I didn't say a word, just went inside and he pealed off south, screeching away and still going completely mental.

What I should have done, of course, is pulled out my phone and recorded his tirade and threats, then filmed his license plate, etc.

Now, if I had done that would there be anything the police could or would do?

If you would have got out of your car and he had seen a big ole hog leg strapped to your side he might think about doing that next time. I have people pull out in front of me all the time and I hardly ever hit the horn. It's just city driving for the most part. Of course you never know when you might have some meth crazed person going ballistic for no reason. Can't be too careful IMO.

Anonymous.
03-18-2016, 10:55 AM
He probably figured you would turn right into the left-hand lane. Like most drivers here tend to do. Even people making left turns, turn into the far right lane. It is frustrating.

It sounds like this guy was just looking for a fight. Some people are having a bad day/week/month/year/life and you are the unlucky one to set them off. Definitely record them if safe to do so.

Pete
03-18-2016, 11:02 AM
If I had filmed this, would the police done anything about it?

rezman
03-18-2016, 11:25 AM
^ Probably not Pete, if an actual crime wasn't committed. It's not illegal to scream and shout obscenities, and he never got out of his car and came at you. Now if a police officer witnessed all of this first hand, it might be a different story. Maybe disorderly conduct, or some traffic charges, etc.

u50254082
03-18-2016, 11:29 AM
For what it's worth, I've always had bad luck with road rage type problems in the "inner city". Never really an issue out here in the "dreaded suburban sprawl".

<shrug>

jerrywall
03-18-2016, 11:30 AM
Both road rage, and obscenities in public are illegal. In fact, the driver's manual says:


If you are harassed on the road, get the offender’s license-tag number and report the incident to the authorities.

rezman
03-18-2016, 11:35 AM
People don't know the laws of the road. Mainly, staying in your lane through intersections. One should be able to make a right hand turn and stay in their lane as other traffic is making a left onto the same road as long as they stay in their lane. I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing, slow, easy-going, going with the flow, of driving or what.

This is a big problem here. Every day I see people make turns and immediately pull in to the far lane. Even if people did stay in the their lane after a right hand turn, it's still not safe for another car to make a left turn at the same time. A good approach is for the left turning vehicle to follow the right turning vehicle, maybe 1 or 2 seconds behind, because of the very reason that turning vehicles may not stay in their lane.

AP
03-18-2016, 11:53 AM
Either way, he blew his horn and continued to lean on it for a very long time (even though I had already pulled out into the roadway) and when I looked in my rearview he was right behind me frothing at the mouth and shooting me the finger.

Keep in mind the speed limit here is 30 MPH and everyone was slowing down for the red light at Broadway. Whatever the inconvenience to him (and I'm not sure I was even the slightest bit at fault here), it was very minor but he was losing it behind me and as soon as the light turned green he revved up and got right on my tail and almost hit me as I made the right turn onto Broadway.

I parked at the curb to hop into Coffee Slingers and he pulled up next to me -- stopping in the middle of traffic -- rolled down his window and went completely apesh!t.

Sorry about that. I just hate when people pull out in front of me. :wink:

Hondo1
03-18-2016, 12:09 PM
Same thing happened to me recently. I was "punished" by a young lady in a Honda Civic who did not like the way I made a proper left hand turn and gradual maneuver to the outside lane. Seems her middle finger had a severe case of rigor mortis. She cursed and honked. It is disturbing to be the recipient of such vitriol for simply doing the right thing.

jerrywall
03-18-2016, 12:17 PM
I had an incident the other day, where someone cut in front of me right as I was lowering my sun visor on my helmet. I'm pretty sure they thought I was flipping them the bird, because they sure got aggressive and angry. Personally, I prefer the zen method of driving... keep it cool... unless they try to move onto me while I'm riding, and then I'll kick the side of their car with steeltoe boots.

onthestrip
03-18-2016, 12:18 PM
Funny nsfw bit from Louis CK regarding this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8062QEFk5g



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x8062QEFk5g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

stile99
03-18-2016, 01:27 PM
I try (this is not to say I always succeed) to try to take a more relaxed attitude towards driving. I've certainly not always been this way, in fact, it is really a fairly recent development, I think I finally learned it when I lived in Austin for awhile. The thing with getting mad at someone driving like a jackass is...you're going to get mad every time you get behind the wheel. Every single time. The dude frothing at the mouth at you? The problem is on his end, he's going to be frothing at someone else tomorrow. He was frothing at someone else yesterday. Why let someone like that ruin your day? I tend to allow enough driving time to get to my destination early whenever possible, this helps build in a buffer to just slow down when Frothface Fingerflipper shows up. Just slow down, let him get ahead of you, cause you sure don't want someone like that behind you.

The bonus on this is definitely not always, not even often, but sometimes...just sometimes...you get the joy of seeing Frothface Fingerflipper pulled over at the side of the road having a nice discussion with the boys in blue. Cause after he passed you, he kept on driving like a jackass and got caught.

Now, this is not to say it doesn't bother me. I can't understand what is going through some of these peoples' tiny little minds. You realize traffic was backed up for two miles BECAUSE people like you were illegally waiting until the very last inch to merge, right? And now here you are, trying to edge in and cut someone off and boom. You hit them. Now there's an accident RIGHT where traffic was narrowing to one lane and traffic is messed up for hours, all because of one peabrain. That does bug me, but the same peabrain is going to do it again, and again, and again, and there will also be other peabrains who do it, so if I let it get to me I'd be in a permanent state of apoplexy.

Uptowner
03-18-2016, 02:38 PM
If you'd filmed him you might have ended up dead. People go stark raving mad when you film them being an idiot. It's a bit of a catch 22. But don't forget, people are packing around here and their magazines are not limited to 10 bullets like Cali.

It mostly derives from ignorance and stupidity. And unfortunately our state is rife with ignorance and stupidity. People aren't educated on the rules of the road...they got their drivers license decades ago. And then there's the vigilante "you must be punished" sentiment from people who actually believe life is fair. But unfortunately they're ignorant so it goes into futile acts of rage.

I've been road raged on a lot while riding motorcycles and scooters. I ride the centerline in dead stopped traffic. I take the space on the right lane to pass cars to make right turns on a red light. This sometimes INFURIATES people. Why should he get to go ahead of me?! That's not FAIR!! I've been followed, threatened, people will swerve to the left or right to cut my lane of traffic. Open doors in a feigned effort to cause a crash. I've been slapped on the helmet visor through open windows. The very worst is the "frothmouth" who follows a motorcycle until which time he will bump the bike, causing a wreck. I've been bumped once on the interstate, but stayed upright. Avoided 2 bumps and multiple attempts to swerve ahead of me.

I'm not a deviant rider or a speeder. These are just psychotic people. And this isn't every day, just a list of incidents over the last 20 years riding in OKC. I get so angry and pessimistic when discussing this topic. And every time I hear of a motorcyclist dying on the freeway. I wonder in the back of my mind if they were bumped

I doubt the cops would do anything. But a dash cam that has dual lenses that record front and back would t be a bad idea. They just loop through their memory until which time you want to pull the recording like security cams. I've been considering one for years. And some day soon I'm going to start riding with a go-pro on my motorcycle for security purposes.

The craziest thing is %99 of rage is unjustified. We've got a horn culture here like NYC "oh you made me tap my brakes while I was speeding because you merged into MY lane?" Hooooooooooooooooorn.

PS the worst driving I've ever seen is in the Orlando area. Everyone's doing 80 and people are crossing 3 lanes to the slow lane, then 3 lanes back to the passing lane through heavy traffic in their family trucksters. I think it has something to do with the proximity to Daytona intl Speedway.

jerrywall
03-18-2016, 02:45 PM
It mostly derives from ignorance and stupidity. And unfortunately our state is rife with ignorance and stupidity. People aren't educated on the rules of the road...they got their drivers license decades ago.

This is amusing coupled with this...


I ride the centerline in dead stopped traffic. I take the space on the right lane to pass cars to make right turns on a red light.

Both of which are illegal in Oklahoma, and you shouldn't do (especially the space on the right, since that car may not realize you're there and decide to make a right turn). This is up there with popping wheelies on the interstate.

Uptowner
03-18-2016, 02:53 PM
I'm not disputing the legality. If I'm caught I'll take the ticket. It's a habit I picked up riding in California. I'm not splitting the lane on a street glide sir. It's usually on a small frame Vespa. And I've never come close to contact with a vehicle. But does that give a motorist the right to punish me by trying to kill me???

http://youtu.be/LreWfR_p__M Here's a perfect example. Skip to 20 seconds in. The guy makes an illegal pass on a double yellow line. And is dished vigilante justice in the form of attempted murder.

jerrywall
03-18-2016, 03:06 PM
Nope, they don't have a right to try to kill you. It's just absurd to go on a long rant which starts out about people not knowing the laws, and then talking about you breaking the laws. And there are absolutely consequences for the driver if they end up accidentally killing you due to your own illegal actions. Plus, it makes cage drivers dislike bikers more than they seem to do.

TheTravellers
03-18-2016, 03:17 PM
Yep, people around here drive like idiots and a**holes, and they get *soooo* pissed off when you call them on it. Had multiple things like that happen since I came back in 2009, but I call people on their sh*t (lay on the horn, nothing more than that) all the time instead of just letting them do it (which I believe tons of people here do because they either don't know better or they do it themselves all the time and don't want to be the pot calling the kettle black).

One of the things that is epidemic here is the "turn right/left into the far lane" and I actually force people into the correct lane if I'm turning into my correct lane and they turn into the wrong (my) lane, I don't just sit and wait to turn right until all the dumbass left-turners empty out into my lane. I have a POS car and don't really care if they run into me, not my fault since I turned into the correct lane, and they'd get the ticket and have to pay for damages, but so far everybody's suddenly changed back into their lane when they realize that I'm not giving way. I just cannot understand why people can't turn that steering wheel just a few more inches to stay in the correct lane when turning, I see this at probably 90% of the intersections I go through every single time I drive anywhere.

jerrywall
03-18-2016, 03:37 PM
Speaking of road rage and cameras.... I watch the helmet cam videos on youtube and it seems like a huge amount of the road rage videos are from London. And I'm not talking about honking and yelling. Ramming the bike, running them off the road, chasing them, all sorts of stuff. It seem like open war between bikers and car drivers.

Martin
03-18-2016, 03:46 PM
One of the things that is epidemic here is the "turn right/left into the far lane" and I actually force people into the correct lane if I'm turning into my correct lane and they turn into the wrong (my) lane, I don't just sit and wait to turn right until all the dumbass left-turners empty out into my lane. I have a POS car and don't really care if they run into me, not my fault since I turned into the correct lane, and they'd get the ticket and have to pay for damages, but so far everybody's suddenly changed back into their lane when they realize that I'm not giving way. I just cannot understand why people can't turn that steering wheel just a few more inches to stay in the correct lane when turning, I see this at probably 90% of the intersections I go through every single time I drive anywhere.

waaait a second... i'm trying to picture the scenario you're describing here.

so if i'm understanding you right... you're sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. oncoming traffic is making a left in front of you but must have a green arrow because otherwise they would have to yield. instead of turning left into the inside lane, some of these cars turn wide into the outside lane. while these cars are turning and while you still have a red light, you make a right on red into the inside lane forcing some of these cars to correct and turn into the inside lane for them.

do i have this right? -M

stile99
03-18-2016, 04:03 PM
Nope, they don't have a right to try to kill you. It's just absurd to go on a long rant which starts out about people not knowing the laws, and then talking about you breaking the laws. And there are absolutely consequences for the driver if they end up accidentally killing you due to your own illegal actions. Plus, it makes cage drivers dislike bikers more than they seem to do.

I feel like we've discussed this before on here (I may be wrong and in no sense am I attempting to discourage discussion), so I may be repeating myself with this, but yes, there are consequences for the driver if they end up killing the biker. There are consequences for the biker as well. Like...being dead.

The last time we had this discussion, it was littered with people saying "Eff you, they're aiming for me, so I'm going to break the law". See, the whole way a motorcycle (or for that matter, any vehicle) works is you are literally taking your life into your own hands. Why throw it away so recklessly?

Nobody is going to say the person in the white car had the right to do that. Nobody. And had he killed the person on the bike, his life is basically over. But for the biker, there's no 'basically' about it. He's worm food. We can incarcerate the guy in the white car, we can sue him, we can create a legal fiction where he's 'at fault', but at the end of the day, there's one question. Just one. Would the biker be dead if he had followed the law? Is it REALLY worth it?

I agree with you, it's a little absurd, not to mention more than a little hypocritical, to decry everyone else as ignorant of the law while ignoring one's own habitual violation of it. And when the day comes that that habitual violation ends badly, it's "the other guy's fault". No, what it is is a gamble, and the house always wins.

kevinpate
03-18-2016, 04:07 PM
Stupid drivers can be dangerous.
Really stupid drivers can be really dangerous.
Some have poor impulse control.
And some dangerous drivers with poor impulse control carry firearms.

None of this is taught in driver's ed in OK. But it should be.

mkjeeves
03-18-2016, 04:10 PM
waaait a second... i'm trying to picture the scenario you're describing here.

so if i'm understanding you right... you're sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. oncoming traffic is making a left in front of you but must have a green arrow because otherwise they would have to yield. instead of turning left into the inside lane, some of these cars turn wide into the outside lane. while these cars are turning and while you still have a red light, you make a right on red into the inside lane forcing some of these cars to correct and turn into the inside lane for them.

do i have this right? -M

Could be anytime both cars approach the intersection and turn the same direction under a green light both ways, (assuming no one else it going straight.) Seems to happen at cross streets feeding into major streets where everyone is usually turning and there aren't turn arrows.

stile99
03-18-2016, 04:12 PM
I actually force people into the correct lane if I'm turning into my correct lane and they turn into the wrong (my) lane, I don't just sit and wait to turn right until all the dumbass left-turners empty out into my lane. I have a POS car and don't really care if they run into me, not my fault since I turned into the correct lane, and they'd get the ticket and have to pay for damages,

I'm curious what citation you think they'd get. It won't be failure to yield left turn if they have a green arrow giving them the right of way. However, considering the law says you may turn right on red only after stopping, then signaling, then proceeding only when safe to do so, yielding to pedestrians and other traffic, it's going to be a little difficult for you to convince the officer that it was safe to do so if you saw vehicles in the lane, but in your opinion they shouldn't have been, not to mention the complete failure to yield.

TheTravellers
03-18-2016, 04:35 PM
waaait a second... i'm trying to picture the scenario you're describing here.

so if i'm understanding you right... you're sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. oncoming traffic is making a left in front of you but must have a green arrow because otherwise they would have to yield. instead of turning left into the inside lane, some of these cars turn wide into the outside lane. while these cars are turning and while you still have a red light, you make a right on red into the inside lane forcing some of these cars to correct and turn into the inside lane for them.

do i have this right? -M

Nope, I turn right on red into the right (correct) lane. 99.99% of the time, I turn left into the left lane and right into the right lane (only time I don't is if I'm turning right, but need to turn left super-soon after turning right and vice versa).

TheTravellers
03-18-2016, 04:52 PM
I'm curious what citation you think they'd get. It won't be failure to yield left turn if they have a green arrow giving them the right of way. However, considering the law says you may turn right on red only after stopping, then signaling, then proceeding only when safe to do so, yielding to pedestrians and other traffic, it's going to be a little difficult for you to convince the officer that it was safe to do so if you saw vehicles in the lane, but in your opinion they shouldn't have been, not to mention the complete failure to yield.

Interesting, thought it was a law/statute, but haven't found it in a quick search. So it might just be in the driver's handbook, but not a law. Oh well, I'll take my chances, I generally don't look for a head-on collision when doing it, I go in between cars (since tons of people here are so slow to go at a green light, there's plenty of room between cars most of the time), and if somebody that's turning left happens to try to turn into my lane, well, I was there first, came to a complete stop, yielded to everything at the time, but most folks just go back into the lane they should've been in in the first place.

BBatesokc
03-18-2016, 05:03 PM
If I had filmed this, would the police done anything about it?

Possibly. I've had kinda-sorta similar instances in the past. Not road rage related, but still close.

Had a young lady on S. Robinson flip me the bird once. I didn't think anything about it (I get that a lot), but within a few seconds a police officer pulled up and said he saw her flip me off and asked if I would sign a complaint. I said if "yes" was the answer he was looking for, then okay, I'd sign it. He proceeded to approach her and arrest her on some sort of pedestrian city violation. Not just a ticket, but actually arrested her and transported her. Obviously he was out to get her and just needed/wanted an excuse. I later found out he was just going to ticket her but she didn't have an ID on her so he took her downtown to get her finger prints for a positive ID.

Another time I was walking inside a restaurant with my wife and some guy driving by yelled an obscenity directed towards her (she was dressed rather nice for our dinner). Being a hot head I ran into the street and motioned for him to come back. As he was apparently going to go around the block and come back, a police officer hit his lights in the parking lot across the street to get my attention. I told him what happened. As the driver came back by - with his window down - the officer told him to pull over. We went inside to eat. The cop and the guy were out there for awhile and I eventually saw him give the guy a ticket. Cop came inside and said it was for some version of a public disturbance.

Lastly, I had a pimp come up to my car once and start yelling and screaming.

About 10 minutes later I saw a cop stopping the pimp's prostitute and run her for warrants. I approached the officer and showed him my video of her pimp. The officer arrested the pimp for "making a threat of violence" because you could clearly hear him threaten me.

So, technically, yes the police could do something. I'm guessing it comes down to the individual cop and your persistence and knowledge of the law.

Our public disturbance ordinance is extremely vague and can be used most any time a police officer wants.

I often refer to my Oklahoma Statutes app on my phone and point out the statute I'd like to have an officer enforce - or at least allow me to sign a complaint regarding.

Someone mentioned a dashcam. Personally, I think this is your best defense in a road rage incident.

I have a few of these... and this is an excellent price...

New 4SIGHT 4SK606 The Original Dash Cam 2 Dashboard Camera The Lens Split Screen | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-4SIGHT-4SK606-THE-ORIGINAL-DASH-CAM-2-DASHBOARD-CAMERA-THE-LENS-SPLIT-SCREEN-/331794631695?hash=item4d40804c0f:g:fNYAAOSwbdpWVO-K)

I was fortunate the other day when a trucker did what truckers often do - turned on his turn signal and if you didn't move out of his way he was coming over regardless. Needless to say he hit me. He then proceeded to claim the lane was open and that I sped up to make sure he'd hit me so I could sue. Luckily, I had the incident on video so the driver got a ticket and his insurance had to pay all my repairs. Without video it was his word against mine. In this case I was probably still okay, but you never know.

Here's a still of the nutty truck driver....

12379

All my cars have dash cams now.

Martin
03-18-2016, 05:42 PM
Nope, I turn right on red into the right (correct) lane. 99.99% of the time, I turn left into the left lane and right into the right lane (only time I don't is if I'm turning right, but need to turn left super-soon after turning right and vice versa).

ok... so you're making a right on red. so the 'dumbass left-turners', as you call them, must be making a protected left since you have a red light. if that's the case, you're running a red light. regardless of whether or not those left-turners are entering into the correct lane, they have the right-of-way and you can't make your right on red until the intersection is clear. unless i'm misunderstanding your original post, what you're doing is more than a little wrong. -M

jerrywall
03-18-2016, 06:44 PM
I can say, 20 or so years ago I got a ticket for swinging out to the outside lane during a turn, so unless that's changed it's also illegal.

Martin
03-18-2016, 06:59 PM
I can say, 20 or so years ago I got a ticket for swinging out to the outside lane during a turn, so unless that's changed it's also illegal.

no doubt. guess i see a difference in severity between drivers who commit minor infractions out of ignorance and other drivers who purposefully drive aggressively and commit infractions just to prove some kind of point.

i mean, we're talking about somebody who deliberately launches his vehicle into an intersection on a red light causing drivers who have the right-of-way to swerve to avoid him putting multiple parties in real danger, just because he thinks that their driving habits aren't up to par. while one is certainly an infraction, the other is not only an infraction but certainly a form of road rage.

-M

Urbanized
03-18-2016, 07:13 PM
I'm not sure I have been involved in a road rage incident for about 25 years... ...about the time I vowed to stop road raging, myself.

My number one guiding principle when driving is to do everything in my power to avoid making someone have to hit their brakes, change lanes, slow down, or even take their foot off the pedal as a result of my actions. Do I speed? Absolutely. Do I change lanes? Yes. But if I change lanes in front of you, you can bet that I'm going faster than you. If I turn in front of you, Mark it down that I won't be there when you get there. You will NOT have to account for me.

And if you do something rude to me, almost always chuckle, shrug it off, and shake my head at how dumb people can be. I don't take it personal. Life's too short, and giving in to road rage tends to make it even shorter.

krisb
03-18-2016, 07:17 PM
So, my first few months back in Oklahoma have yielded more driving-related incidents than my previous 25 in California.

Yesterday morning, I was turning right onto NW 10th from Robinson. All the on-coming traffic was in the left lane, so I made my turn into the right lane.

Some idiot who was in the left hand lane either thought I was gong to pull out in front of him or quickly decided to change into the right hand lane as I pulled out. Either way, he blew his horn and continued to lean on it for a very long time (even though I had already pulled out into the roadway) and when I looked in my rearview he was right behind me frothing at the mouth and shooting me the finger.

Keep in mind the speed limit here is 30 MPH and everyone was slowing down for the red light at Broadway. Whatever the inconvenience to him (and I'm not sure I was even the slightest bit at fault here), it was very minor but he was losing it behind me and as soon as the light turned green he revved up and got right on my tail and almost hit me as I made the right turn onto Broadway.

I parked at the curb to hop into Coffee Slingers and he pulled up next to me -- stopping in the middle of traffic -- rolled down his window and went completely apesh!t. I didn't say a word, just went inside and he pealed off south, screeching away and still going completely mental.

What I should have done, of course, is pulled out my phone and recorded his tirade and threats, then filmed his license plate, etc.

Now, if I had done that would there be anything the police could or would do?

There is no excuse for his extreme behavior, but it would seem that you turned right on red into an intersection that was not clear...? Even if I was traveling in the left lane it would make me nervous for someone to turn when I have the right of way.

Bill Robertson
03-18-2016, 07:31 PM
I'm not disputing the legality. If I'm caught I'll take the ticket. It's a habit I picked up riding in California. I'm not splitting the lane on a street glide sir. It's usually on a small frame Vespa. And I've never come close to contact with a vehicle. But does that give a motorist the right to punish me by trying to kill me???

http://youtu.be/LreWfR_p__M Here's a perfect example. Skip to 20 seconds in. The guy makes an illegal pass on a double yellow line. And is dished vigilante justice in the form of attempted murder.It is something that could very easily tick off a car driver because they don't understand your motives. As an avid bicyclist and motorcycle rider for decades I'm against doing anything to unnecessarily tick off a driving public that doesn't think we should be on the road to begin with.
I've ridden both the bicycle and M/C with too many people that seem determined to prove their right to the road to the extent of making it more dangerous instead of less.

Plutonic Panda
03-18-2016, 08:38 PM
ok... so you're making a right on red. so the 'dumbass left-turners', as you call them, must be making a protected left since you have a red light. if that's the case, you're running a red light. regardless of whether or not those left-turners are entering into the correct lane, they have the right-of-way and you can't make your right on red until the intersection is clear. unless i'm misunderstanding your original post, what you're doing is more than a little wrong. -MWhy does the intersection have to be clear? So two right turn drivers can't turn right at the same time if they have red? That makes no sense.

Travellers was in the right if he made the right turn on red(which is legal) and the other people turn left into THEIR lane(which is legal) and everyone gets along? It's the people turning left who turn into the wrong lane that are doing the wrong by making the right turn driver who is turning right onto HIS lane and forcing him to stop that are wrong.

rte66man
03-18-2016, 09:56 PM
If you are westbound on 44 approaching the Hefner Parkway, the right hand lane is exit only. The lane coming west from May is supposed to Yield to the traffic coming off of 44. I had a guy chase me for 3 miles yelling f-bombs and trying to ram me after I dared to honk at him for ignoring the yield sign.

Martin
03-18-2016, 10:15 PM
Why does the intersection have to be clear?

when turning right on red, the driver has to first come to a stop and then must yield to any traffic that has the right of way before proceeding... so effectively the intersection should be clear. can't believe this even has to be explained. -M

Celebrator
03-18-2016, 10:53 PM
PS the worst driving I've ever seen is in the Orlando area. Everyone's doing 80 and people are crossing 3 lanes to the slow lane, then 3 lanes back to the passing lane through heavy traffic in their family trucksters. I think it has something to do with the proximity to Daytona intl Speedway.

100% correct. I moved here from Orlando in 2009, and the most aggressive, rude, and out-to-lunch drivers are down there. And it's not Daytona Int'l Speedway I don't think, it's a uniquely dangerous cocktail of aggressive jaded East Coast big city transplants (thought moving down there meant normal life was going to be a vacation and were wrong) aggressive jaded young people (mad at the world while they're working dead-end jobs in hospitality), and clueless vacationers from all over the world (who's brains are on vacation, too). It's terrible driving. Once, I got passed at a stop sign. AT A STOP SIGN! I actually have found driving here an absolute pleasure compared.

Pete
03-19-2016, 06:05 AM
There is no excuse for his extreme behavior, but it would seem that you turned right on red into an intersection that was not clear...? Even if I was traveling in the left lane it would make me nervous for someone to turn when I have the right of way.

It was clear when I made my turn.

Pete
03-19-2016, 06:17 AM
If you'd filmed him you might have ended up dead. People go stark raving mad when you film them being an idiot. It's a bit of a catch 22. But don't forget, people are packing around here

I thought of this as well.

Really, I probably handled it the best possible way which was just to ignore the guy. I literally think any other action would have escalated things as this dude had lost his ever-loving mind.

I'll never see him again and really what difference would it have made if I'd filmed him and then got the police involved? They would have probably done nothing and even if they had acted, that wouldn't have changed a thing.


I used to work in what was considered one of the 'worst' areas of Los Angeles and I never had one single problem. I've developed a pretty good sense of rising tensions and just politely and inconspicuously remove myself from the situation. Have done the same thing several times in bars where I've started to feel bad energy.

The bottom line is that most idiots like this have nothing to lose and I have everything to lose, so best not to engage and just move on.


I appreciate all the discussion and helping me think this through.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
03-19-2016, 06:29 AM
Why does the intersection have to be clear? So two right turn drivers can't turn right at the same time if they have red? That makes no sense.

Travellers was in the right if he made the right turn on red(which is legal) and the other people turn left into THEIR lane(which is legal) and everyone gets along? It's the people turning left who turn into the wrong lane that are doing the wrong by making the right turn driver who is turning right onto HIS lane and forcing him to stop that are wrong.

When I took driver's ed (many many moons ago) and got my license...Turning right, you were required to turn into the first available lane closest to the curb. HOWEVER, when turning left, you could turn into any available lane (assuming there's only one left hand turn lane). Which would put Travellers very much in the wrong in more ways than one lol

But like I said...It's been a long time, and I could be incorrect, or the information could have changed.

stile99
03-19-2016, 07:45 AM
My number one guiding principle when driving is to do everything in my power to avoid making someone have to hit their brakes, change lanes, slow down, or even take their foot off the pedal as a result of my actions.

Did we have the same driver's ed teacher? One thing that man drilled into us every day was if we make a turn/merge/whatever and someone else has to hit their brakes, it was a bad turn/merge/whatever.

Urban Pioneer
03-19-2016, 08:40 AM
10th and Broadway is a frustrating intersection as east and west do not have protected turn lanes but yet are now handling double the traffic due to the new exit ramp off of I-235.

During my morning commute into downtown, I usually take the alley behind the Community Foundation down to 9th as inevitably there will be a line of cars backed up unable to get through the intersection due to the heavy volume before the light cycles. Add a freight train disrupting the flow, and it is total chaos down there.

However, it sounds like you were traveling eastbound. Why this guy went mental is beyond me. Entering that intersection on a turn of any kind requires careful attention due to the poor street design, flow, and other activities. That whole area is a cluster f. The angled parking, the parallel parking, Rand Elliot's damn fake pavers and 80' wide street design, freight trains, and pedestrians literally having to run across the street.

The guy is mental, but if there ever were a location where road rage would happen, it would be at the intersection in front of our building.

Urbanized
03-19-2016, 09:27 AM
Did we have the same driver's ed teacher? One thing that man drilled into us every day was if we make a turn/merge/whatever and someone else has to hit their brakes, it was a bad turn/merge/whatever.

If other drivers never have to react/respond to your actions, AND you are able to detach from your own ego and anger issues and find some sort of zen place while driving (not always easy), simply put you will likely NEVER be involved in a road rage incident.

Again, I drive fast and CONSTANTLY move in traffic. I am no slow lane camper, but even more importantly I am no FAST lane camper. The Golden Rule applies here, as much if not more than most facets of life. Chances when you see me I'll be going faster than you, but if not, I GUARANTEE that I won't be in your way.

TheTravellers
03-19-2016, 12:28 PM
https://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/odm.html

Page 7-7 (6. Finish turn in proper lane) and 7-8 (DO NOT ENTER INTERSECTION IN RIGHT HAND LANE) are where I got my info from. So it's apparently just a suggestion to do that and not a law, oh well. And OKC is the only place I've lived where this happens with regularity - other drivers in pretty much all the other cities I've lived in seem to turn left into the left lane, right into the right lane and everybody gets along.

Mel
03-19-2016, 02:46 PM
If people would only obey the rule of turning right in to the right lane and turning left into the left. Traffic would go so much smoother. I don't even try and do a right turn after stop if the opposing lane has any cars in it's left turn lane. I do not want to wreck to prove I am right.

If getting yelled at and flipped off is road rage then yeah, I have been on the receiving end a few times.

mkjeeves
03-19-2016, 03:03 PM
Oklahoma Law (not a suggestion)

The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:

1. Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

2. Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at an intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle. After entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection, as nearly as practicable, in the left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. Whenever practicable, when leaving a two-way roadway, the left turn shall be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=82305

Bad road-hogging idea, even when it's not against the law.


Some states (e.g., Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas,Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Nevada, and North Carolina) prohibit entering the right lane when making the left turn.

Some states are less strict and allow drivers to complete a left turn into either lane of the cross street, e.g., California, Missouri,Texas. Consult your state's Drivers handbook for details.


https://driversed.com/driving-information/driving-techniques/making-right-and-left-turns.aspx

mkjeeves
03-19-2016, 04:12 PM
when turning right on red, the driver has to first come to a stop and then must yield to any traffic that has the right of way before proceeding... so effectively the intersection should be clear. can't believe this even has to be explained. -M

Below is the law. Right turn on red must yield to others lawfully using the intersection. If they are left turning into the right hand lane, against the law posted above, they aren't lawfully using the intersection are they? But be cautious, there are uninformed idiots out there and it's the law.

3. Steady red indication:

a. vehicular traffic facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in subparagraphs b and d of this paragraph,

b. except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, vehicular traffic facing any steady red signal may cautiously enter the intersection to turn right or to turn left from a one-way street into a one-way street after stopping as required by subparagraph a of this paragraph. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection,

OSCN Found Document:Traffic-Control Signal Legend - Motorcycle Mobility and Safety Act (http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=82270)

TheTravellers
03-19-2016, 04:37 PM
Interesting, thanks for the findings! I checked Title 47 and didn't see the part about "After entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection, as nearly as practicable, in the left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered." for some reason. I feel slightly vindicated. :)

Martin
03-19-2016, 04:40 PM
Below is the law. Right turn on red must yield to others lawfully using the intersection. If they are left turning into the right hand lane, against the law posted above, they aren't lawfully using the intersection are they?

i think 'lawfully using the intersection' means that it is lawful for the vehicle to enter the intersection, not whether or not a vehicle was lawfully turning into the correct lane. as such, the person turning right at the red light must yield the right-of-way.

and given the information in the post that started this discussion, i wouldn't categorize a driver who knowingly turns in front of other traffic in order to cause them to swerve to avoid a collision as 'cautiously entering the intersection.'

-M

mkjeeves
03-19-2016, 04:50 PM
i think 'lawfully using the intersection' means that it is lawful for the vehicle to enter the intersection, not whether or not a vehicle was lawfully turning into the correct lane. as such, the person turning right at the red light must yield the right-of-way.

and given the information in the post that started this discussion, i wouldn't categorize a driver who knowingly turns in front of other traffic in order to cause them to swerve to avoid a collision as 'cautiously entering the intersection.'

-M

I don't. I think it means lawfully using the intersection. Which is a lot different requirement than waiting until the intersection is clear or giving right-o-way to everyone in the intersection for whatever reason, speeding, driving the wrong way, making illegal turns (jaywalking) etc.

In any case, an informed driver making a cautious right turn on red has every right to do so with the expectation the left turner won't be in that lane. A left turner hitting someone in the right hand lane clearly broke the law.

Bill Robertson
03-19-2016, 04:52 PM
https://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/odm.html

Page 7-7 (6. Finish turn in proper lane) and 7-8 (DO NOT ENTER INTERSECTION IN RIGHT HAND LANE) are where I got my info from. So it's apparently just a suggestion to do that and not a law, oh well. And OKC is the only place I've lived where this happens with regularity - other drivers in pretty much all the other cities I've lived in seem to turn left into the left lane, right into the right lane and everybody gets along.My daughter got a ticket for turning into the wrong lane not long ago. She figured the cop must have been really bored.

Martin
03-19-2016, 05:04 PM
I don't. I think it means lawfully using the intersection. Which is a lot different requirement than waiting until the intersection is clear or giving right-o-way to everyone in the intersection for whatever reason, speeding, driving the wrong way, making illegal turns (jaywalking) etc.
i see... so if one of my headlights is out, i'm not lawfully using the intersection? that just doesn't make sense. the plainest reading is that the vehicle had the right to enter the intersection, not that every single aspect of the vehicle's behavior was 'lawful.'


In any case, an informed driver making a cautious right turn on red has every right to do so with the expectation the left turner won't be in that lane. A left turner hitting someone in the right hand lane clearly broke the law.
and i think that the failure to yield outweighs the left-turner being in the wrong lane. tell you what... i'll ask a couple police officer friends and will report their take on it.

-M

mkjeeves
03-19-2016, 05:10 PM
i see... so if one of my headlights is out, i'm not lawfully using the intersection? that just doesn't make sense. the plainest reading is that the vehicle had the right to enter the intersection, not that every single aspect of the vehicle's behavior was 'lawful.'


and i think that the failure to yield outweighs the left-turner being in the wrong lane. tell you what... i'll ask a couple police officer friends and will report their take on it.

-M

More like I turn right to proceed the direction you are coming from, you have a green arrow to turn left the direction I'm coming from but you make an illegal u-turn and hit me. I had an expectation you were going to follow the law WRT lanes and turning and where you end up but you didn't follow the law. I did not have a requirement to sit and wait until the entire intersection is clear, nor give right of way to every possible law you might break while going through a green arrow, or green light, or otherwise have entered the intersection lawfully.

Martin
03-19-2016, 05:30 PM
huh, guess it isn't that simple... asked two friends in okcpd and got two different answers. the one who currently works traffic says that the driver who failed to yield is at fault. the one who hasn't worked traffic in years (but probably has more overall experience) says it's the driver who turned into the wrong lane since that's what technically caused the crash but thinks it's possible that both could be found to be at fault. if he gets a chance, he's going to follow up with a traffic investigator to get his take on it.

-M

ctchandler
03-19-2016, 05:34 PM
My opinion for what it's worth is green trumps red in most, if not all situations except when there is a sign overriding it as there is in Edmond at 2nd just West of Broadway where a sign says u-turns yield to right turn on red drivers. But what I would like to know is if I am going North, turning West (left) to go to the 7-11 at Hefner and May, how am I supposed to do that? I try when possible to stay in the leftmost lane and quickly signal and move over to the right lane and make my turn. That seems very legal, but from what some of you are saying, I could be running into you since you made a right turn on red. Do I do like some idiots and stop in the middle of the road and wait till all of the folks "SLOWING DOWN" before turning on red drive by before I make my right turn? And yes, the "SLOWING DOWN" was capitalized for a reason since most people don't stop before turning right on red. As a matter of fact, many of them race through to beat somebody turning left regardless of whether there are one or two lanes.
C. T.

TheTravellers
03-19-2016, 05:51 PM
huh, guess it isn't that simple... asked two friends in okcpd and got two different answers. the one who currently works traffic says that the driver who failed to yield is at fault. the one who hasn't worked traffic in years (but probably has more overall experience) says it's the driver who turned into the wrong lane since that's what technically caused the crash but thinks it's possible that both could be found to be at fault. if he gets a chance, he's going to follow up with a traffic investigator to get his take on it.

-M

Actually, TBH, I figured that might be the outcome if a crash ever happened - both might get written up, either, or neither, would probably depend highly on the circumstances and demeanor of everybody (including the cop) involved.