View Full Version : Future: Cox Business Services Convention Center.



Laramie
02-13-2016, 12:36 PM
https://www.okc.gov/maps/cox_center/gallery/aerial.jpg https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Md2e79a0f820263b15efb1e7e3b6f490fo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=249&h=165
http://static.coxconventioncenter.com/images/branding/Arena_half_cotlg.jpg

Oklahoma City should see phases & formation of the new convention center & conference hotel sometime around 2020. Once the new convention center-conference hotel complex is completed; our attention will focus on the future development of the 4-square block parcel of prime downtown property just north of the Chesapeake Energy Arena.

What does the future hold for the old convention center; want to hear your thoughts?





According to the OCCVB’s latest figures, 2015 will likely end on a high note. In November last year, the sales staff helped finalize 41,700 room bookings; by comparison, this November’s tally was 53,034 rooms. For the first five months of fiscal year 2014-2015, the staff reported 117,700 room bookings; this year, that total is 133,400.

Oklahoma City convention scene to boom in 2016 - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/3/oklahoma-city-convention-scene-to-boom-in-2016/)

Spartan
02-13-2016, 02:35 PM
WAY TOO SOON man.

bchris02
02-13-2016, 03:01 PM
Restore the grid and build a mixed-use complex with retail and a residential tower. Possibly close off the streets in the interior and make them pedestrian only. Something like this is what I am thanking.

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000XLTJGlY08i0/s/750/750/Epicenter-Charlotte-NC-0004.jpg

stile99
02-13-2016, 03:25 PM
WAY TOO SOON man.

How so? If we're going to spend four years discussing, cussing, debating, forming plans, throwing out plans, discussing some more, cussing some more, holding meetings, form more plans, throw those plans out and go back to the original plan, cuss/discuss some more, rediscard the original plan and form yet a third, etc etc etc...why not start that process at T-minus 4 years instead of waiting until Zero Hour...or even worse, Zero Hour PLUS four years?

bchris02
02-13-2016, 03:47 PM
The Cox Center redevelopment will be one of the most important developments to happen in downtown OKC. It's not too late to start discussing it and pushing city leaders to make sure its done right.

OkiePoke
02-13-2016, 04:53 PM
A KC power & lights district would be awesome!

Laramie
02-13-2016, 06:15 PM
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/files.visitkc.com/power_and_light_district_034_pc.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1040/3267723314_0ccf2684d6_b.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a1/PowerLightDistrictSign.JPG/275px-PowerLightDistrictSign.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/PowerLight_KCPL.jpg/275px-PowerLight_KCPL.jpg
AWESOME!



A KC power & lights district would be awesome!

Spartan
02-13-2016, 06:27 PM
How so? If we're going to spend four years discussing, cussing, debating, forming plans, throwing out plans, discussing some more, cussing some more, holding meetings, form more plans, throw those plans out and go back to the original plan, cuss/discuss some more, rediscard the original plan and form yet a third, etc etc etc...why not start that process at T-minus 4 years instead of waiting until Zero Hour...or even worse, Zero Hour PLUS four years?

We should focus on how we're going to fix the new boulevard, because that's happening now. We need to focus on implementation of the streetcar, new convention center, and Central Park.


The Cox Center redevelopment will be one of the most important developments to happen in downtown OKC. It's not too late to start discussing it and pushing city leaders to make sure its done right.

No it's not too late, and it won't be in a year or two, either.

This will just become another Mystery Tower thread..3..2..1

bchris02
02-13-2016, 06:40 PM
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/files.visitkc.com/power_and_light_district_034_pc.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1040/3267723314_0ccf2684d6_b.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a1/PowerLightDistrictSign.JPG/275px-PowerLightDistrictSign.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/PowerLight_KCPL.jpg/275px-PowerLight_KCPL.jpg
AWESOME!

The sad part about this is the developer who developed the KC Power & Light district could have developed Lower Bricktown. It was awarded to Randy Hogan instead strictly because Hogan was a local developer. We all can see how that turned out, which stresses the importance of having a vision for an area and then choosing a developer who will build that vision.



No it's not too late, and it won't be in a year or two, either.

This will just become another Mystery Tower thread..3..2..1

I doubt that, at least not until serious proposals are rumored, in which there will be a thread on it anyways.

mugofbeer
02-13-2016, 08:18 PM
Bring in the canal system, somehow!

Laramie
02-13-2016, 10:02 PM
Bring in the canal system, somehow!

If we could tie the canal to this portion of downtown, it would be great. Just not sure that elevation would make it feasibly possible.

Someone knowledgeable about this feel free to answer his question; just not sure about where we could extend the Bricktown Canal.

mugofbeer
02-13-2016, 10:33 PM
Make some sort of use of the garage. Its alredy dug out and cleared.

Spartan
02-14-2016, 01:23 PM
Make some sort of use of the garage. Its alredy dug out and cleared.

I agree with this. Pre-existing underground parking will be a good draw for development.

JohnH_in_OKC
02-14-2016, 01:47 PM
I've always thought OKC should rename the Myriad (Cox) Convention Center as OKC Grand Central. The advantages are:

1. Retain the arena for events such as Red Earth Festival or Billy Graham type of events, hockey, OKC Blue, or New Years Eve events with the Thunder at the Chesapeake & a band such as the Flaming lips in our alternate arena.
2. Use the west side of the first floor as our intracity bus station replacing the EMBARK station at 4th & Hudson with a first class indoor station taking our local bus passengers where they want to go (the Chesapeake Arena & Bricktown), especially nights & weekends.
3. Use the east side of the first floor as our Intercity bus terminal interlinking our bus visitors with trains,local buses & streetcars, & having parking underneath the terminal for people waiting to pick up passengers from the intercity buses or trains.
4. Keep the underground parking underneath the convention center for events like Thunder games, rock concerts, etc.
5. Avoid a heavy lawsuit against OKC from the "Renaissance Oklahoma City Convention Center Hotel" which contracted to build their hotel in downtown OKC for the rights to use part of the second floor of the Myriad (Cox) Convention Center for its own convention center use.
6. Possibly, with the help of the Oklahoma legislature, we could create a downtown gambling center on the second floor of the convention center that is not controlled by the Renaissance Hotel. This could potentially generate an income that would help pay the costs of mass transit (our local EMBARK bus service, our streetcars, and future bus rapid transit (BRT) or rail rapid transit service to Norman, Edmond, Midwest City, Yukon & the airport).

The costs of making this changeover should be the first project of MAPS 4. In my opinion, this would be inexpensive, innovative and contribute towards making OKC citizens a lot less car dependent.

Spartan
02-14-2016, 06:43 PM
I've always thought OKC should rename the Myriad (Cox) Convention Center as OKC Grand Central. The advantages are:

1. Retain the arena for events such as Red Earth Festival or Billy Graham type of events, hockey, OKC Blue, or New Years Eve events with the Thunder at the Chesapeake & a band such as the Flaming lips in our alternate arena.
2. Use the west side of the first floor as our intracity bus station replacing the EMBARK station at 4th & Hudson with a first class indoor station taking our local bus passengers where they want to go (the Chesapeake Arena & Bricktown), especially nights & weekends.
3. Use the east side of the first floor as our Intercity bus terminal interlinking our bus visitors with trains,local buses & streetcars, & having parking underneath the terminal for people waiting to pick up passengers from the intercity buses or trains.
4. Keep the underground parking underneath the convention center for events like Thunder games, rock concerts, etc.
5. Avoid a heavy lawsuit against OKC from the "Renaissance Oklahoma City Convention Center Hotel" which contracted to build their hotel in downtown OKC for the rights to use part of the second floor of the Myriad (Cox) Convention Center for its own convention center use.

I think if the John Q. Hammons enterprise should sue the city, the tables could be turned pretty quickly.


6. Possibly, with the help of the Oklahoma legislature, we could create a downtown gambling center on the second floor of the convention center that is not controlled by the Renaissance Hotel. This could potentially generate an income that would help pay the costs of mass transit (our local EMBARK bus service, our streetcars, and future bus rapid transit (BRT) or rail rapid transit service to Norman, Edmond, Midwest City, Yukon & the airport).

The costs of making this changeover should be the first project of MAPS 4. In my opinion, this would be inexpensive, innovative and contribute towards making OKC citizens a lot less car dependent.

With the help of the legislature? Right...

I think this block needs to breath. Beyond that, I don't really care what happens, as long as it isn't another Mystery Tower phenomena where we either surround the park with imposing corporate towers or construction lakes.

Urbanized
02-15-2016, 06:31 AM
KC Power and Light has saddled Kansas City with HUGE debt, to the point where the City cannot properly fund its pension fund. It has dramatically underperformed projections. This because Cordish demanded HUGE subsidy up front. It has had negative consequences for existing, established districts like Westport, acting in a predatory manner. It has had terrible public relations issues with violence and with a controversial dress code that critics alleged was racially-motivated. All in all it's not been what KC officials had hoped.

The one place where it HAS seemed to be successful is where OKC is already doing great; it has spurred housing development in a once blighted area. As bad as OKC's downtown was in recent memory, Kansas City's was worse. So basically, P&L was KC's answer to MAPS, but with less overall success to date.

We don't need a place that competes with existing districts; we need places that take advantage of amenities already in place, such as the MBG, Film Row, Bricktown, adjacent streetcar/AMTRAK access, and others.

An entertainment-focused development would unnecessarily compete with what we already enjoy, but that doesn't mean mixed use doesn't make sense. Instead there should be emphasis on office, hotel and ESPECIALLY residential, with associated services. For instance, maybe this is where the City Target some desire makes sense.. Perhaps not as sexy at first glance, but far more sustainable on multiple levels.

warreng88
02-15-2016, 07:01 PM
1. I would love to see a complete demolition of the CCC including the underground parking garage bring back the street grid. The streets would be mostly pedestrian with the metal tubes coming up after a certain period of time to limit traffic. I figure those could come down in the morning and late at night when delivery trucks and the like need to make their way to the respective businesses.
2. Retail on the ground floor of each building facing into the intersection and west to the park. The south, north and east side would have retail, but also entrances to the parking garages.
3. Parking garages on the first five floors of the NE and SE quadrants.
4. Hotel on the NW quadrant
5. Condos/apartments on the SW quadrant
6. Office space on the NE and SE quadrants above the parking garages.

I would also like to see some sort of large anchor retail and restaurant facing the interior of the intersection. Not necessarily a Nordstoms or anything, but maybe Crate and Barrel or something like that. And downtown has shown it can support restaurants, so maybe a Bobby Flay restaurant or something else very new to Oklahoma City and the Oklahoma market.

Just my ideas.

David
02-16-2016, 06:57 AM
Would it be possible to restore the grid without removing the underground parking? Keeping it feels like the best idea out of this thread so far, but it needs to actually be workable.

warreng88
02-16-2016, 07:30 AM
Would it be possible to restore the grid without removing the underground parking? Keeping it feels like the best idea out of this thread so far, but it needs to actually be workable.

I would think it would depend on the structural support underneath and if it can support 10-15 stories of hotel, office, etc. I would think it would be easier to just tear the whole thing down and start from scratch.

baralheia
02-16-2016, 08:37 AM
I really, REALLY like the idea of putting the EMBARK Downtown Transit Center in the garage level, along with Greyhound. Putting the main bus station directly across the street from Santa Fe Station ties all of our present and future transportation modes together, which will be critical to allow passengers to use whatever mode of transit makes the most sense for their trip. We don't necessarily need to preserve the existing convention center garage - the entire site could be demolished and re-worked with a new underground level for the terminal - but I think getting the main bus hub right here should be a top priority no matter what else is done with the property.

HOT ROD
02-16-2016, 06:15 PM
I also think it is a great idea to try to repurpose the Cox garage in some fashion for transit purposes, tying in to the Santa Fe Intermodal Center. This could allow for underground transit stops (for commuter and express bus, local transfers, InterCity Bus, and perhaps even some slots for rental car companies. If the garage could start underground and perhaps extend upward somewhat (or all the way into a proper skyscraper) for a portion of the site; this COULD pay for itself while expanding Santa Fe. The ONLY thing remaining to be done would be to build underground connection between the Cox Site center and Santa Fe underneath EKG. I would incorporate Warren's ideas for the remainder of the site - but I would retain or reconfigure the garage (especially the section nearest to EKG) to become the TRANSIT portion of the Santa Fe Intermodal Center.

To me, this is the LINE OF BIG CITY THINKING that OKC needs to start making - we need a 'proper' transit center along the lines of other big cities and using at least a portion of the COX site for this would be hugely appropriate in that direction while also having a blank canvas if you will to what the opportunities could be.

I'm very excited about this, hopefully we wont be in a local or national recession at the time.

warreng88
02-17-2016, 11:40 AM
I think utilizing the underground parking would be a good idea, I just don't think they are going to do it as it is easier to build new than it is to repurpose a 45 year old underground parking garages. The rest of the site is going to be scraped, why not start from scratch and build it exactly as you want it for the future Multimodal station. I am curious about the water table and the issue that will arise from that. We all know Devon had some issues when digging down for their foundation. I think a one story underground transit stop for buses on the NE and SE quadrant and then digging a tunnel to tie into the Santa Fe Station would be perfect. Although, I am not sure where the buses would enter and exit. If they exit east, a new stop light would need to be installed mid-block for the crossing to go north or they could exit to the north and enter on the east side. I would like to see something special done on the south side facing Reno and The Peake. I am not sure what, but not just retail or a café. Something unique.

HOT ROD
02-19-2016, 03:26 PM
Good ideas!

For redeveloping the current Cox quad-block, I would master plan it to restore Broadway AND California (but Cali being a small, local style pedestrian oriented street) and each square would be open to highrise development expansion of the CBD to which the city would sell to developers and use the proceeds to:

reserve the rights to the underground portion the NE square block. The city should then construct the transit center underground along Sheridan-EK G-California with retail on-top and along the aforementioned street frontage; local and commuter bus would enter the building at -say- Broadway just past the current Cox Facade orienting E following Sheridan, going down until you get to EKG underground turning South where there will be transit stops/slots then buses would turn right to East at/near California before emerging up at Broadway and Cali. If we needed a larger footprint for this, then buses could emerge at Broadway and Reno. The Transit routing would follow a C if you will, more or less fronting Sheridan-EKG-California just underground.

In the center of the NE block would be a multi-level garage with all or at least many levels underground to connect to the transit center directly and on-top of the garage would be tower(s) which nicely would have access to the retail frontage surrounding the block. The tower(s) themselves could be the 'property' of the developers or whatever but the city would retain the rights to the underground and the garage itself since these would be public use. There would be a tunnel built under EKG to connect the Transit Center portion to the Santa Fe building - creating a GRAND CENTRAL Station in downtown OKC with travel modes consisting of transit and commuter bus, (perhaps return of intercity bus/greyhound), streetcar, Amtrak, Eastern Flyer rail to Tulsa, Commuter Rail to the suburbs, future HSR, and possibly future light rail, parking (Broadway entrance), and possibly some rental car - a fully multi-modal facility with restaurants and retail streetfront and highrise office/hotel tenants all at the NE square block.

You could have the transit entrance and exit front EKG but I propose it be Broadway because 1) I'm trying to make at least this portion of EKG pedestrian friendly with retail storefronts fronting it considering EKG would be the main stop(s) for the Streetcar (including layover stops), 2) using Broadway as the transit egress would bring some action to that restored street AND allow EMBARK to use some of Broadway for transit stops as well, 3) my proposal would also have storefronts along Broadway so it wouldn't be ignored unlike if we put transit egress at EKG (it would be hard to put in storefronts + streetcar along EKG as well). The real question is - is the NE block alone large enough for the underground transit routing or would it need to be underground following Sheridan-EKG- Reno instead or even entrance at Robinson and Sheridan, go down turn along EKG with the transit stops and then re-emerge at Robinson and Reno (the largest footprint - since I don't know if Broadway-to-EKG is long enough for buses to get underground). ..

This is big vision guys - I hope it will happen because IMO that will solidify OKC as a transit oriented city because all modes would start HERE and venture out depending upon use/capacity. It would further cement us as a big league city, having a multi-modal transit center with an underground component.

JohnH_in_OKC
02-21-2016, 10:15 PM
One problem with using the underground parking area as our future bus terminal is that at least another five feet would need to be excavated from the entire flooring to give buses the clearance to park. There is only about 8 feet of overhead clearance right now. Also, to dig out the underground floor space is problematic because of the flooding problems from underground water seepage. Those of you who watched the Devon Energy Tower go up may remember how much construction had to be done in building the below ground areas with much concern for flooding. Also remember how underground flooding undermined the future usability of Stage Center.

catch22
02-21-2016, 10:28 PM
One problem with using the underground parking area as our future bus terminal is that at least another five feet would need to be excavated from the entire flooring to give buses the clearance to park. There is only about 8 feet of overhead clearance right now. Also, to dig out the underground floor space is problematic because of the flooding problems from underground water seepage. Those of you who watched the Devon Energy Tower go up may remember how much construction had to be done in building the below ground areas with much concern for flooding. Also remember how underground flooding undermined the future usability of Stage Center.

They also installed permanent water pumps at Devon to keep the water table artificially low on property.

Laramie
02-22-2016, 01:51 PM
Savage the parking lot of the CCC if feasible.

Really feel that the new convention center complex has more potential than projected.




http://www.themeetingmagazines.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Fairmont-Rendering-10-20-14-400.jpg
Would like to see a future (post 2020) high rise 1,000 plus room hotel & residential development built on Cox site. OKC convention industry just may see a spike entering the 2020. The OKC downtown-bricktown area growth could be the target of a future development boom post 2020.

Spartan
02-23-2016, 07:04 PM
KC Power and Light has saddled Kansas City with HUGE debt, to the point where the City cannot properly fund its pension fund. It has dramatically underperformed projections. This because Cordish demanded HUGE subsidy up front. It has had negative consequences for existing, established districts like Westport, acting in a predatory manner. It has had terrible public relations issues with violence and with a controversial dress code that critics alleged was racially-motivated. All in all it's not been what KC officials had hoped.

The one place where it HAS seemed to be successful is where OKC is already doing great; it has spurred housing development in a once blighted area. As bad as OKC's downtown was in recent memory, Kansas City's was worse. So basically, P&L was KC's answer to MAPS, but with less overall success to date.

We don't need a place that competes with existing districts; we need places that take advantage of amenities already in place, such as the MBG, Film Row, Bricktown, adjacent streetcar/AMTRAK access, and others.

An entertainment-focused development would unnecessarily compete with what we already enjoy, but that doesn't mean mixed use doesn't make sense. Instead there should be emphasis on office, hotel and ESPECIALLY residential, with associated services. For instance, maybe this is where the City Target some desire makes sense.. Perhaps not as sexy at first glance, but far more sustainable on multiple levels.

I think this Cox site is where we see just how innovative of a TOD we are capable of pulling off.

As for Power + Light, we'll see if the streetcar helps. To their credit, they went above and beyond with the finish quality, preserved some iconic buildings, and enacted a TON of iconic placemaking. I'd argue that KC's public got a lot out of that project, even if Cordish hasn't been that great to work with.

KC has some financial problems that are typical of inner cities once they get boxed in. They also have a well-funded RTA and a full trophy case of public projects (Kaufman PAC, Sprint Center, parks, streetcar, public market, etc). I don't think KC has done too badly. It's kind of cyclical logic to point out that maybe they've exhausted their capacity. That's kind of the point I think.

I know you're not attacking KC, but still, I gotta defend one of my favorite cities against a negative interpretation. ;)

Urbanized
02-27-2016, 07:36 AM
Not attacking KC at all. I love that city. But the fact remains that their downtown was very stagnant compared to OKC and that P&L was essentially a desperation move. One that was heavily-funded by taxpayers. In a way, it was their MAPS, except that it primarily benefitted Cordish.

OKC needs no such desperation moves. Our downtown development is smoking hot, this despite a downturn in a key part of our economy. Beyond that, we don't need a taxpayer-funded entertainment center to directly compete with nearby districts that are achieving the same results organically, and largely through private investment.

It makes much more sense - ESPECIALLY if taxpayer support is involved - for this piece of real estate to be utilized in a way that fills gaps in our current downtown and the community in general. Those could include transit components, housing types that currently don't exist (high rise), services (could include something like a City Target), and as-needed office, hotel, etc.

Of course there would be a place in a thoughtful mixed use redevelopment for some dining and entertainment options, but to build an entertainment heavy/focused venue would only be robbing Peter to pay Paul, and do more harm than good. ESPECIALLY if it involved public financing.

Laramie
02-27-2016, 08:44 AM
Although many of us want to see the growth boom, we need to recognized the impact of collective MAPS projects and how they have impacted our city.

We are in the early stages of Big League City status; however we still have a long way to go.

There were initial plans (MAPS I) to downside the Myriad by keeping the upper 400 level seating of the Great Arena retrofitting the upper level to a smaller arena with more floor space (approximately 7,000 seats) and converting the lower level to exhibition space. Not sure what the retrofit would have cost at time. https://seatgeek.com/venues/cox-convention-center/seating-chart

It was believed that the retrofit would have made it more friendly for trade shows, rodeos & events like Red Earth & the International Finals Rodeo (IFR) where you wouldn't need a high ceiling. Now the focus of those events has shifted to the Fairgrounds.

We may need to keep the Cox site (4 square blocks) for future expansion of a more expanded cc complex that would include the new convention center & conference hotel, the Chesapeake Energy Arena & the current Cox Convention Center which could be used to build a mega hotel.