A few weeks ago D-Bo made a public splash about the B12 needing to expand, posibly to UCONN or the Univ. of Houston. Born also wants a playoff game after the expansion and publicly stated he felt the league needed an exclusive TV contract similar to the SEC or B10. Of course there can't be a TV contract unless Texas agrees to deep six their exclusive ESPN Longhorn network deal.
Much was said locally on how Boren would be able to muscle this through by getting all the schools on board.

Last Friday at the league meeting in Dallas, Boren was told to quit talking publicly on such matters. Interesting that the Daily Disappointment or local radio had not a mention of this.
John E. Hoover: Big 12 CEOs silence rogue voices, including Boren - Tulsa World: Sports Columnist John E. Hoover (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/johnehoover/john-e-hoover-big-ceos-silence-rogue-voices-including-boren/article_d3eae69e-f78b-5077-a465-7d2a5753319e.html)
IRVING, Texas — Big 12 Conference leadership saw University of Oklahoma President David Boren’s comments, felt them, and now has reacted to them.
On Friday at league headquarters, commissioner Bob Bowlsby and chairman of the board of directors Kirk Schulz of Kansas State expressed a new league directive — er, agreement — that no school CEO will express his views on Big 12 topics like expansion.
When the presidents and chancellors meeting adjourned, rather than stick around and politic for expansion to 12 members, a Big 12 network and a conference championship game, Boren got in his car and headed back to Norman.

The Animal's coverage of the meetings complained all day Friday that they wouldn't be getting any real comments due to the gag order. And Boren made his point. Hanging around just to repeat it agian wasn't necessary. They meet two more times this year.

Boren is wrong in several different ways on this.

Ten schools does not work for the B12. But there's no one good to get anymore. Mid-majors like Houston just ain't gonna do it. The B12 isn't gonna get a school like Arky or FSU jump either. The B12 is screwed. The B12 and or OU doesn't want to saddle itself with a network now either. The time to do that was five or ten years ago. ESPN right now is struggling because of so many people dumping cable and satellite to stream. ESPN didn't make it's big money from sports fans alone. It made it from being a part of cable packages so that people who didn't even care about sports still paid for it because it was a part of their package. I see the other conference networks and the LHN following in this manner.

OU needs to get out of this conference plain and simple. Stop tying ourselves to osu and stop saying "Whatever Texas wants us to do..." Also, being in another conference will help OU to win a football national title. Bob has built OU to win the B12 but B12 teams aren't built to win an NC. The B12's days are numbered and we need to get out. I know people worry about our rivalry with Texas if we leave, but we played Texas every year while we were in a different conference up until the creation of the B12. It can be done again.

Ten schools does not work for the B12. But there's no one good to get anymore. Mid-majors like Houston just ain't gonna do it.

I disagree. I think Cincinnati brings enough to the table to merit an addition. I think they're comparable to many power 5 schools already and they would be even better in a major conference. They also would provide a neighbor to West Virginia and provide some stability. Of course, you're right that the Big 12 should have been active in offering schools like Louisville during the last expansion cycle, but I think Cincinnati is not settling. I would add them now and worry about team 12 later.

Now, who to add after that is a problem? Every other school offers problems. Houston has potential (see TCU), but there's no need to further saturate the Texas market for recruiting and such. UConn could bring a ton (great men's and women's basketball teams), but they lack in football. BYU meets all the criteria of a power 5 team, but they don't fit geographically and bring some headaches with them (TV deal, no Sunday games). In the end, if you have to get to 12 then I think BYU is the school. There's no shame in BYU and Cincy as additions. They're both good programs with solid fan support and good history.


OU needs to get out of this conference plain and simple.

I think people forget that this really affects the fan. I want to be in a conference with geographic neighbors. I enjoy going to games when OU plays at TCU or driving to games in Kansas or Stillwater. I hate that we lost the old Big 8 schools, but I'm not that interested in a conference where a majority of our games are 10-20 hour drives away. If we can make the Big 12 work then I think that should be the priority.

I think that OU would leave both OSU and Texas behind for the right package/deal. It's just that all deals being equal or close, they'll stick with (for whatever reason) Texas and OSU. I agree that it's unlikely that the Big 12 could add any schools of the right caliber, so it's really just a matter of time until the prime cuts of the Big 12 are lured away to other conferences.

For OU, sooner (yuck yuck) is better than later on making this move. As an OSU fan, I'd rather see the big 12 work. However, I just don't think it will.

I think that OU would leave both OSU and Texas behind for the right package/deal.

I absolutely hate this idea. Our rivalries with OSU and Texas are such a vital part of college sports. If we leave for the Big 10 with Kansas, for example, I bet we'll all be excited with our games with Minnesota and Rutgers over OSU and Kansas (game in which fans can drive to and against schools with which we have a deep history). Same with playing Kentucky or having our basketball tourney in Atlanta. Puke. There's a lot of downside to joining a far flung conference without neighbors. Ask Nebraska how the Big 10 is going. Sure, they're in a conference with stability, but they have no rival (and they lost their Texas recruiting base). There's a lot to lose in leaving... As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

I absolutely hate this idea. Our rivalries with OSU and Texas are such a vital part of college sports. If we leave for the Big 10 with Kansas, for example, I bet we'll all be excited with our games with Minnesota and Rutgers over OSU and Kansas (game in which fans can drive to and against schools with which we have a deep history). Same with playing Kentucky or having our basketball tourney in Atlanta. Puke. There's a lot of downside to joining a far flung conference without neighbors. Ask Nebraska how the Big 10 is going. Sure, they're in a conference with stability, but they have no rival (and they lost their Texas recruiting base). There's a lot to lose in leaving... As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

I'm not saying I like it. It's more an observation of the reality. OU will attempt, of course, to stay with Texas and OSU, but they'd certainly be willing, IMO, to make a move without one or both of them under the right circumstances.

I agree that it would hurt the rivalry, especially in football. Things aren't the same as they were in the past. With the larger conferences, what team wants to commit 2 of their few non conference games on an annual basis. Matchups between either of these teams would become rarer (like with Nebraska). I also agree with your assessment of geographically spread out conferences. Harder on the fans and the teams.

Boren is wrong in several different ways on this.

Ten schools does not work for the B12. But there's no one good to get anymore. Mid-majors like Houston just ain't gonna do it. The B12 isn't gonna get a school like Arky or FSU jump either. The B12 is screwed. The B12 and or OU doesn't want to saddle itself with a network now either. The time to do that was five or ten years ago. ESPN right now is struggling because of so many people dumping cable and satellite to stream. ESPN didn't make it's big money from sports fans alone. It made it from being a part of cable packages so that people who didn't even care about sports still paid for it because it was a part of their package. I see the other conference networks and the LHN following in this manner.

OU needs to get out of this conference plain and simple. Stop tying ourselves to osu and stop saying "Whatever Texas wants us to do..." Also, being in another conference will help OU to win a football national title. Bob has built OU to win the B12 but B12 teams aren't built to win an NC. The B12's days are numbered and we need to get out. I know people worry about our rivalry with Texas if we leave, but we played Texas every year while we were in a different conference up until the creation of the B12. It can be done again.

Could not agree more

One thing I think is a little scary in this shutting down of Boren, is that Boren has made it clear that he will think of OU's longer term future (as he should). He's as much as said that if the Big 12 doesn't make changes, OU will. The fact that the other schools voted to shut down public comments is absurd if you consider that every school that's not Texas is screwed if OU leaves the Big 12.

I absolutely hate this idea. Our rivalries with OSU and Texas are such a vital part of college sports. If we leave for the Big 10 with Kansas, for example, I bet we'll all be excited with our games with Minnesota and Rutgers over OSU and Kansas (game in which fans can drive to and against schools with which we have a deep history). Same with playing Kentucky or having our basketball tourney in Atlanta. Puke. There's a lot of downside to joining a far flung conference without neighbors. Ask Nebraska how the Big 10 is going. Sure, they're in a conference with stability, but they have no rival (and they lost their Texas recruiting base). There's a lot to lose in leaving... As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.


I have to disagree with a few of your assumptions. If OU were to leave the B12, it would be advantageous for both OU and Texas to continue their rivalry as the season ticket bases of both schools are maintained to some extent by the opportunity to attend the annual game in Dallas. While popular in Oklahoma, very few people nationally care about the OU-OSU "rivalry" except when both schools are highly ranked and the results affect the national picture, i.e. not very often. Within the B12, there are only 3 national brands, OU & Texas in football and Kansas in basketball. Everyone else serves as scheduling placeholders and are replaceable / interchangeable with numerous schools throughout the country.

Short term, having 10 schools as opposed to 12 or 14 makes everyone's payout larger. It doesn't make a lot of financial sense to add schools unless they can bring something (viewers and national name) to the table. Doing so, simply dilutes the payout. If you're TCU, Iowa State, etc. the B12 is as good as you can expect and they would lose money should they elect to leave. Texas is making what it would make in another conference such as the Big 10 or SEC because of the additional revenue generated by the LHN. OU is the real loser because they are a national brand earning Iowa State dollars. They are locked in and will earn less than Texas because OU does not have the sweet LHN deal. In my opinion, OU's mistake was made when they fought to keep the B12 without a conference network or the foresight to expand when the opportunity was available.

Finally, OU's options may not be as open as you might assume. All Big 10 schools are AAU members (except Nebraska who was when invited) as OU may not be considered academically strong enough. Might be questionable with Pac-12 unless Texas was included as a package. I'm sure the SEC would jump at the opportunity to take OU as the SEC is not known as an academic hot spot, except Vanderbilt.

Tidbits on conference realignment talk

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up. (if there are any on this board speak up!). why? because they know if they don't get OU to carry them to another conference they will slide to a lower conference. OSU can't move alone on its own merits.

OU needs to get out of this conference b/c it becomes the AAC part 2.

Most of the little brother schools do not want to add schools to the conference for several reasons. #1 it will decrease their piece of the money pie that OU and Texas gives to them. #2 if the conference is spilt into 2 divisions no team wants to be in the other division w/out OU and Texas. Now the little brother schools get OU and texas every other year at home (some schools like OSU base their season tickets and marketing on this fact). If a little brother has to go to the other division they don't get to host OU and UT every other year.

A few thoughts based on some things posted here...no particular order...

* Big 10's requirement for AAU membership is no longer hard-and-fast. I think every communication has been made that they would take OU without it.
* Boren was caught flat-footed with the realignment/Pac10-12-16 bluff a few years ago. I can't fathom he'd be caught like that again. He may like/love/want the Big 12 to survive, but he'd darned well better have an unassailable exit strategy in hand if he can't get what he wants. I think he does, and started crafting it about five minutes after the Pac-12/16 debacle emerged a few years ago.
* The ACC is apparently never (?) going to get the network they discussed.
* ESPN's pot of money for conference affiliations and rights payments is no longer the unending bucket it once seemed.
* Boren and West Va pres Gordon Gee have been working traplines behind the scenes to gauge "unoffically" what kind of temperature there is out there among other possible schools. Both have to be *extremely* careful about any such communication, because it could *easily* be perceived as destructive and/or poaching in the eyes of other conferences, their members, and the relative value of *their* rights.
* Boren, I believe, would like a plan that converts the LHN into a B12 network.
* I believe Boren knows Texas will block.....everything.
* I believe Boren has in his hip pocket a nuclear strategy to exit the conference if he can't get satisfactory responses to the issues he's posed - including a legal option that would involve a lawsuit against the Big 12 to regain the intellectual property rights it granted to the conference, with the hope a negotiated settlement would allow for OU's exit.
* The relationship between OU and Texas as universities is at an all-time low. Good or bad, I believe Boren is willing to put the OU-Texas game (RRS) on the block if he perceives it to be in the better long-term interest of OU as a school in terms of its future conference alignment. And there is similarly no such marriage to OSU unless someone in the legislature forces the issue.

I know the conventional wisdom holds that nothing will happen for at least six, seven, eight, or more years. I don't think Boren plans to wait anywhere near that long.

No pretense of insider info at all here, just some speculation based on how things have unfolded.

As I said previously, if OU leaves Texas behind that doesn't mean that we can't still play Texas every year. From 1900 - 1995 we played Texas and we were in a different conference. I also understand wanting regional rivals, but those days are over. We've already lost our old Big 8 rivals Nebbish, Mizzou and Colorado. Not to mention Big 12 member aTm. Sure it's nice to be able to travel to away games but would you rather be in the B12 and be able to travel to Kansas and sit in an empty stadium or would you rather be in a different conference and watch OU play teams like Ohio State or Alabama or USC on a regular basis. Look at this past seasons home schedule. It was pitiful. Conference home games were WVA, TTech, ISU and TCU. TCU was the only decent home game this season.

^^^ As far as OSU. Pat Jones former head coach of the OSU football has repeatedly advocated for OSU and OU to align in different conferences. His reasoning is that OSU will always be a little bro' to OU and never have their own identity until they separate.

As I said previously, if OU leaves Texas behind that doesn't mean that we can't still play Texas every year. From 1900 - 1995 we played Texas and we were in a different conference. I also understand wanting regional rivals, but those days are over. We've already lost our old Big 8 rivals Nebbish, Mizzou and Colorado. Not to mention Big 12 member aTm. Sure it's nice to be able to travel to away games but would you rather be in the B12 and be able to travel to Kansas and sit in an empty stadium or would you rather be in a different conference and watch OU play teams like Ohio State or Alabama or USC on a regular basis. Look at this past seasons home schedule. It was pitiful. Conference home games were WVA, TTech, ISU and TCU. TCU was the only decent home game this season.

With the likelihood that any future conference will be larger than 10 teams, possibly even larger than 12, I strongly suspect scheduling requirements may make the RRS impossible if OU and UT are, for whatever reason, in different conferences.

So if OSU just joins the MAC they won't be little brother anymore and they'll have their own identity. That doesn't seem to be the case with Ohio.

With the likelihood that any future conference will be larger than 10 teams, possibly even larger than 12, I strongly suspect scheduling requirements may make the RRS impossible if OU and UT are, for whatever reason, in different conferences.

That's a valid point. If that's the case then I think OU has to go to the SEC. Without a pipeline to recruit in Texas, we'll need to recruit the south to get the players we need or else we become Nebraska.

Best possible scenario:

OU to SEC
OSU to Pac 12

All the other schools can go pound sand.

OU has already stated they will not be going to the SEC. It would be a bad cultural fit (OU at its core is a "western" school) and fairly or not, DBo and the OUBOR don't care for the academic reputation of the SEC.

I think everyone needs to chillax that all of OU's problems would be fixed if we just up and left the Big 12-2. Granted we are very early in this process, but can anyone point to a school and say they are better off for leaving the BIg 12? Colorado (who)? Missouri (nope)? Nebraska (LOL)? Maybe if you include the 2 years Texas A&M ringed out out future car salesman Johnny Manziel, but for all practical purposes they are back to where they were in the Big 12...a mid tier program with some decent secondary sports.

And really, what's the actual problem here? Did we not just make the playoff and were two banged up running backs away from making the championship game? Other OU sports are thriving right now. What do you solve by leaving? Is a little more money worth the risks to the overall success of OU athletics, which could cancel out the affect of any new revenue?

It is in the best interest for OU to at least try and make this conference work. We made a decision back in 2011 to stay on the boat, might as well try and keep it from taking on water. I would put the chance of expansion at better than 50/50.

As I said previously, if OU leaves Texas behind that doesn't mean that we can't still play Texas every year. From 1900 - 1995 we played Texas and we were in a different conference. I also understand wanting regional rivals, but those days are over.

That's what Texas A&M admins said when they left....still waiting for them to schedule something. Most fans of both schools will tell you they loathe the absence of the UT/A&M game.

There is no guarantee that UT will play us in another conference. And to even suggest this is playing with fire. I mean, its nuts how much revenue that one game generates for OU. Its by far the biggest recruiting tool for OU football. It is a huge money raiser from alumni. It is guaranteed national media exposure. I can tell you as a kid that grew up in DFW, that game was probably the first time I started paying attention to OU and led to my eventual attendance (and large out of state tuition payment).

And to be frank, OU would lose a vast amount of its national prominence if it starts walking away from rivalries, especially UT. See how this is turning out for Nebraska. OU is probably the most influential and powerful "small state" public schools in the country (small state as in less than 4 million people). When you strip those qualifiers away, however, you will see the school has a somewhat limited footprint. If you are going to use athletics as a buzzmaker for the university, than OU simply does not have the luxury of limiting its exposure.

It is in the best interest for OU to at least try and make this conference work.

It's worth it to try, of course, and that is what Boren is doing. To me, leaving the Big 12 is the response if the conference itself doesn't try to make it work.

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up.

I am an OSU fan who doesn't want the conference to break up. Not for the reasons you state, but still. I like OU and OSU being in the same conference and fighting for the same title. I grew up with that, and enjoy it. Does OSU benefit from OU's presence? Sure. Texas' as well. Of course, OU benefits from being in a conference with Texas. Nothing wrong with any of that.

As for the ability to get into a strong conference? I disagree there. In some ways it might be easier for OSU to get into another strong conference. Anyone knows that pulling in OU or Texas into a conference, while beneficial, will result in a power and finance shakeup. We've seen with the conference realignments of the past decade that the schools most likely to be poached are the more middle of the pack schools.

If someone thinks joining the SEC will limit OU's exposure they are crazy. As for a fan base, I don't think you guys are aware of just how many OU alumni live in the Southeast.

OU has already stated they will not be going to the SEC. It would be a bad cultural fit (OU at its core is a "western" school) and fairly or not, DBo and the OUBOR don't care for the academic reputation of the SEC.

I think everyone needs to chillax that all of OU's problems would be fixed if we just up and left the Big 12-2. Granted we are very early in this process, but can anyone point to a school and say they are better off for leaving the BIg 12? Colorado (who)? Missouri (nope)? Nebraska (LOL)? Maybe if you include the 2 years Texas A&M ringed out out future car salesman Johnny Manziel, but for all practical purposes they are back to where they were in the Big 12...a mid tier program with some decent secondary sports.

And really, what's the actual problem here? Did we not just make the playoff and were two banged up running backs away from making the championship game? Other OU sports are thriving right now. What do you solve by leaving? Is a little more money worth the risks to the overall success of OU athletics, which could cancel out the affect of any new revenue?

It is in the best interest for OU to at least try and make this conference work. We made a decision back in 2011 to stay on the boat, might as well try and keep it from taking on water. I would put the chance of expansion at better than 50/50.
I strongly disagree with the assessment that OU is culturally more of a fit in the PAC then the SEC. How many PAC teams are in the Central time zone? As far as academics OU is certainly more on par with Alabama than Stanford or UCLA.
A&M is rocking it in basketball and certainly has had better fb than in the B12. Mizzou won two division titles in the SEC since joining so I would say they are better off. All of the schools that have left are better off financially than they were in the B12. With the available schools out there adding them would further dilute the product. BYU went 1-4 against power 5 last year. Face it adding teams at this point with what is available would transform the conference into a mid-major.

university, than OU simply does not have the luxury of limiting its exposure.

Aside from the fact that it's "then", not "than," you lost me the moment you implied that moving to the SEC would *limit* OU's exposure. There's just no way you can defend that.

And we won't even go into the fact that among the strongly conjectured alternate scenarios from a few years ago included the one wherein the SEC had *already* told OU it would be welcome, but balked when we tried to make OSU part of the deal. So this notion that OU "won't" go to the SEC just doesn't hold water. It might not be their *first choice* academically, but if that's their best alternative, they will certainly take it.

A&M's problem is that their ego was bigger than their history or their resume, and moving conferences changed neither of those things. Nebraska's mistake was moving in tandem with the loss of their walk-on program, which was the fuel that kept their program going arguably for decades. They are now very much a "used-to-be-good" program that struggles to be relevant every few years with no history in the region and no hook to make them attractive, to say nothing of their revolving-door of coaches.

There is no slam-dunk guarantee OU will be "successful" in the SEC or B10 or (insert favorite conference here), but with a pile of national championships, conference titles, and Heisman winners in their back pocket, I'd say the odds are very much in their favor, and they represent a program very much "in demand." Not so much can be said about A&M.

Both OU and Ut's donor program/ season ticket policy is based on getting tickets to the game in Dallas. That's why i think that game survives even with a conference split.

Now if Ou and osu parted ways that would be a disaster to osu football who base their season ticket policy on the OU home game. Imagine if Holder tried to sell TCU or Baylor as the "marquee game of the year".

Now if Ou and osu parted ways that would be a disaster to osu football who base their season ticket policy on the OU home game. Imagine if Holder tried to sell TCU or Baylor as the "marquee game of the year".

So I assume you can show links that compare seasons without home bedlam games vs seasons with to show a major drop in season ticket sales?

So I assume you can show links that compare seasons without home bedlam games vs seasons with to show a major drop in season ticket sales?

What we know without question is OSU has NEVER sold out their new stadium. They have implemented a policy of not selling single game tickets for the OU games and left millions of dollars on the table to add incentive to purchase season tickets. Like it or not, OU in the same conference helps OSU more than OU. It's been 15+ years since OU has NOT sold out their much larger stadium, regardless on the opponent, higher ticket costs and donor requirements. Frankly, OSU needs OU whereas OU does not need OSU.

What we know without question is OSU has NEVER sold out their new stadium. They have implemented a policy of not selling single game tickets for the OU games and left millions of dollars on the table to add incentive to purchase season tickets. Like it or not, OU in the same conference helps OSU more than OU. It's been 15+ years since OU has NOT sold out their much larger stadium, regardless on the opponent, higher ticket costs and donor requirements. Frankly, OSU needs OU whereas OU does not need OSU.

Like I mentioned up thread, absolutely OSU benefits from being in a conference with OU. And OU benefits from being in a conference with Texas. And?

Oh, and btw, OSU has sold out the expanded stadium. Off the top of my head, the 2013 Baylor game was at full capacity, IIRC.

And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home. If someone wants to claim otherwise, it should be easy to provide citations.

Its funny, if you look at their attendance records, only one (#10) is against OU. #1-9 are other teams.

Like I mentioned up thread, absolutely OSU benefits from being in a conference with OU. And OU benefits from being in a conference with Texas. And?

Oh, and btw, OSU has sold out the expanded stadium. Off the top of my head, the 2013 Baylor game was at full capacity, IIRC.

And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home. If someone wants to claim otherwise, it should be easy to provide citations.

Its funny, if you look at their attendance records, only one (#10) is against OU. #1-9 are other teams.

Osu has sold out 1 game in the history of tboone. And the reason only 1 OU game is in the top ten is because there are no single game tickets sold for the OU game. The OU game is why osu sells season tickets. That is not even debatable

If the OU game doesn't sell OSU season tickets, then why did Holder even implement that policy?

If the OU game doesn't sell OSU season tickets, then why did Holder even implement that policy?

Did I say that? Nope. I won't argue what I didn't say. I said...

"And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home."

Are you claiming they sell zero season tickets in years without the OU game at home?

The OU game is why osu sells season tickets. That is not even debatable

Interesting. So season tickets have zero sales in years without an OU home game. Should be cheaper then! Good to know.

OSU fans are missing the point. By being in a different conference OSU inherits an entire new fan base - OU fans. If OSU was sucessful in going to the PAC 12 (as part of a new PAC-16), then they would be hosting USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford on a regular basis. OSU season tickets would soar.

Did I say that? Nope. I won't argue what I didn't say. I said...

"And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home."

Are you claiming they sell zero season tickets in years without the OU game at home?
No, that's not what I intended to claim at all. My point is that the OU game has been one of their biggest sellers and that's why Holder implemented the policy of you had to buy season tickets to get the OU game.

Aside from the fact that it's "then", not "than," you lost me the moment you implied that moving to the SEC would *limit* OU's exposure. There's just no way you can defend that.

And we won't even go into the fact that among the strongly conjectured alternate scenarios from a few years ago included the one wherein the SEC had *already* told OU it would be welcome, but balked when we tried to make OSU part of the deal. So this notion that OU "won't" go to the SEC just doesn't hold water. It might not be their *first choice* academically, but if that's their best alternative, they will certainly take it.

A&M's problem is that their ego was bigger than their history or their resume, and moving conferences changed neither of those things. Nebraska's mistake was moving in tandem with the loss of their walk-on program, which was the fuel that kept their program going arguably for decades. They are now very much a "used-to-be-good" program that struggles to be relevant every few years with no history in the region and no hook to make them attractive, to say nothing of their revolving-door of coaches.

There is no slam-dunk guarantee OU will be "successful" in the SEC or B10 or (insert favorite conference here), but with a pile of national championships, conference titles, and Heisman winners in their back pocket, I'd say the odds are very much in their favor, and they represent a program very much "in demand." Not so much can be said about A&M.

Alabama is clearly going to be better than OU as long as Saban is around. Ole Miss is going to be a bear under Freeze. Miles always has good teams. Throw in 1 or 2 elite East teams. OU would get a recruiting bump in the SEC, but fans would have to get accept a bunch of 9-3 seasons with the occasional contending year.

No, that's not what I intended to claim at all. My point is that the OU game has been one of their biggest sellers and that's why Holder implemented the policy of you had to buy season tickets to get the OU game.

Certainly. Every year there is a marquee game that requires a season ticket. When they play OU at home, that is the game. Like I said, they certainly benefit from being in a conference with OU. But in years it's not a home bedlam, they still move tickets and season tickets.

Any team is going to benefit from being in a conference and playing a team with a larger fan base. I'd prefer OU and OSU remain in the same conference because I like the bedlam series, and I feel like it'd potentially go away with a split. But I don't believe OSU's sales are totally dependent on OU either. Especially if they, as JTF mentioned, are in a conference with quality opponents.

Alabama is clearly going to be better than OU as long as Saban is around. Ole Miss is going to be a bear under Freeze. Miles always has good teams. Throw in 1 or 2 elite East teams. OU would get a recruiting bump in the SEC, but fans would have to get accept a bunch of 9-3 seasons with the occasional contending year.

This isn't about what's happening *now*, it's about what's happening over the next five, ten, even twenty years. The NCAA hammer is getting ready to put Ole Miss back a step or two or ten, and neither Saban nor Miles will be at their respective schools in five years (nor Stoops, for that matter). I don't at all blindly accept the notion we'd routinely be 9-3 any more than I'd blindly accept the notion we'd routinely be 3-9. Let's face it - *no one* knows what CFB will look like in five or ten years. This is all speculation and gamesmanship. All OU can do is see the mistakes made by others, and themselves, and hope not to repeat them if at all possible.

and neither Saban nor Miles will be at their respective schools in five years (nor Stoops, for that matter).

whoa, whoa, whoa... saban and miles, i get. but you don't think stoops will be at ou in 5 years? -M

Certainly. Every year there is a marquee game that requires a season ticket. When they play OU at home, that is the game. Like I said, they certainly benefit from being in a conference with OU. But in years it's not a home bedlam, they still move tickets and season tickets.

Any team is going to benefit from being in a conference and playing a team with a larger fan base. I'd prefer OU and OSU remain in the same conference because I like the bedlam series, and I feel like it'd potentially go away with a split. But I don't believe OSU's sales are totally dependent on OU either. Especially if they, as JTF mentioned, are in a conference with quality opponents.

You just mentioned why the big12 is doomed.
There are only 2 schools that have a huge fan base. The other schools just don't.
OSU sells its season ticket policy on the fact that they get OU or UT every other year (as do the other 9 other little brothers) and if they expand, OSU wont get them every other year because the little brothers wont agree to expansion if they are put into the other division w/out OU and UT.

OSU fans are missing the point. By being in a different conference OSU inherits an entire new fan base - OU fans. If OSU was sucessful in going to the PAC 12 (as part of a new PAC-16), then they would be hosting USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford on a regular basis. OSU season tickets would soar.

Why do you think USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal (?!?), and Stanford would be preferable to the regional rivalries (for which opposing fans would actually make the drive to Stillwater) with OU, UT, Baylor, TCU, etc.? You're ignoring the fact that if OSU joined the PAC-12 then it would probably be a 16 team conference and USC, for example, would likely be in a different division and might not even visit every four years. Beyond that, Pac 12 fan bases really aren't that strong anyway and would probably show up in pretty small numbers to Stillwater. Instead of regional rivalries, OSU would get a lot of home games against Utah, Oregon State, Arizona, etc. that really aren't that attractive and certainly way less convenient. So, would you rather have USC visit once every four or six years, or Texas visit every other year? Again, the grass is always greener... but the Big 12 makes more sense on many levels.

It's ironic that you seem to favor the sprawl version of conference realignment. ;)

whoa, whoa, whoa... saban and miles, i get. but you don't think stoops will be at ou in 5 years? -MStoops has said many times that he doesn’t like the idea of coaching for a long time…
Stoops will have 20 years in at OU at the end of the 2018 bowl game….and be able to receive benefits ....His wife has already retired…. His 2 boys will graduate from High school in 2 more years…..
There have been lots of rumors that Stoops will retire after they graduated from high school.

Sprawl version of conference realignment - that is a good observation and don't think that hasn't crossed my mind already.

Stoops has said many times that he doesn’t like the idea of coaching for a long time…
Stoops will have 20 years in at OU at the end of the 2018 bowl game….And be able to receive benefits His wife has already retired…. His 2 boys will graduate from High school in 2 more years…..
There have been lots of rumors that Stoops will retire after they graduated from high school.

interesting... did not know that. seems odd that someone who coaches at that level doesn't have the drive or desire to do it as long as possible. -M

You just mentioned why the big12 is doomed.
There are only 2 schools that have a huge fan base. The other schools just don't.
OSU sells its season ticket policy on the fact that they get OU or UT every other year (as do the other 9 other little brothers) and if they expand, OSU wont get them every other year because the little brothers wont agree to expansion if they are put into the other division w/out OU and UT.

You are forgetting Kansas. Which may well leave for the Big 10 or ACC if things don't improve.

Sprawl version of conference realignment - that is a good observation and don't think that hasn't crossed my mind already.

I really do think people underestimate what is lost by conferences spreading out. For example, I am going to the OU-TCU basketball game in Fort Worth with 15 friends who live in DFW next month. I'm really looking forward to it. In fact, I'll probably take public transportation there. ;) Say OU and KU joined the Big 10 as has been proposed. As an OU fan, there would be zero conference games within a 5 hour drive for me from DFW. As it is now, 5 (UT, Baylor, TCU, Tech, OSU) of the 9 members are within that range and the two Kansas schools are just beyond it. Only Iowa State and West Virginia are not in the immediate region. If OU joined the Big 10 like many would like then we would have one, fairly distant neighbor, and a lot of far flung universities. I just think that is a ton to lose and is why the Big 12 is worth fighting for...

That's all aside from the fact that under that fairly popular Big 10 proposal, OU would lose most ties to Texas (even if OU-Texas football continued), which has long been central to OU's recruiting success.

interesting... did not know that. seems odd that someone who coaches at that level doesn't have the drive or desire to do it as long as possible. -M
It doesn’t really have anything to do with coaching drive or desire.
Stoop is always a family man first…. and that’s where his first priority is...He would be that regardless of occupation.
Players and staff know it’s part of genuine character trait of Stoops that helps make him the good coach that he is.

I hear the echo that people prefer to drive to watch their team play away games. But that just isn't the case. I believe the last team to sellout their visitor allotment at Owen field was Ohio state.
The small schools with little following in the big12 don't travel well at all. Heck several of the teams didn't even send their band to Norman this year.
Pathetic

I hear the echo that people prefer to drive to watch their team play away games. But that just isn't the case. I believe the last team to sellout their visitor allotment at Owen field was Ohio state.
The small schools with little following in the big12 don't travel well at all. Heck several of the teams didn't even send their band to Norman this year.
Pathetic

There have been many teams sell their entire ticket allotment for games in Norman since the TOSU game.

interesting... did not know that. seems odd that someone who coaches at that level doesn't have the drive or desire to do it as long as possible. -M

I think that lack of desire has been pretty obvious over the last several seasons.

Big 12 conference realignment is about football first and foremost but there are no teams that really move the needle for the Big 12…making departure the best option for OU.

OU should never artificially hold its self-it’s self-back from ascending to the best possible conference affiliation for the entire university. Keeping OU tied to osu is a serious strategic mistake.

If OU were able to gain B1G membership it would help advance OU academics to the maximum extent possible….. But this will only be possible if OU can demonstrate a clear path of academic improvement to the B1G. This will require passage of the states one cent sales tax and donations of at least a billion new dollars.

The increased research could create new high wage spin off jobs. We have seen how this can work with the weather industry in Norman….. Over time this would help diversify and make the local economy more prosperous…. and even help put butts in the seats at games.

For OU, B1G membership is about a lot more than just football.
But we must understand this requires an investment from our state and each OU person.

Big 12 conference realignment is about football first and foremost but there are no teams that really move the needle for the Big 12…making departure the best option for OU.

OU should never artificially hold its self-it’s self-back from ascending to the best possible conference affiliation for the entire university. Keeping OU tied to osu is a serious strategic mistake.

If OU were able to gain B1G membership it would help advance OU academics to the maximum extent possible….. But this will only be possible if OU can demonstrate a clear path of academic improvement to the B1G. This will require passage of the states one cent sales tax and donations of at least a billion new dollars.

The increased research could create new high wage spin off jobs. We have seen how this can work with the weather industry in Norman….. Over time this would help diversify and make the local economy more prosperous…. and even help put butts in the seats at games.

For OU, B1G membership is about a lot more than just football.
But we must understand this requires an investment from our state and each OU person.

ou48A: I agree with the overall message of your post and believe OU's admission to the B1G would be a tremendous benefit to the state as a whole. Academically, the B1G is much more highly regarded than the B12 and moving to the B1G would bring numerous research opportunities and ancillary industries. My question to you (and others) is: Do you believe Oklahoma, as a state, has the population and resources to support 2 world class universities ? Would we be better to focus on creating a single world class university and allow the other(s) to be regionally respectable ?

Here's a question from the outside, asked on the basis of not much detailed knowledge about the conference and what is going on. What is the problem with the Big 12 as it stands now? What needs to be solved? Reading through the thread, it sounds like the OU football games have constantly sold out crowds. If they do, what is the rationale behind actually changing anything at all if it means messing with a currently successful formula?

Keep in mind the governor has veto authority over both BOR and can veto any decision for not acting in the best interests of the university, state, and its people. OU can leave OSU but it's not a cut and dry easy decision. It would be politically difficult even for a Boren.

"But, the final member, and the final authorizing authority over both boards is the Governor. It’s his/her responsibility that the schools are acting in the best interest of the people of the state, and that includes the other school’s system. Since he/she appoints the BOR he can have them replaced. The Governor has final veto."

Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma State REALLY A Package Deal? - Crimson And Cream Machine (http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com/2011/8/12/2360002/are-oklahoma-and-oklahoma-state-really-a-package-deal)

I won't say oh that'll never happen, but it's not a slam dunk either.

Here's a question from the outside, asked on the basis of not much detailed knowledge about the conference and what is going on. What is the problem with the Big 12 as it stands now? What needs to be solved? Reading through the thread, it sounds like the OU football games have constantly sold out crowds. If they do, what is the rationale behind actually changing anything at all if it means messing with a currently successful formula?

It's more than selling game tickets. It's being able to recruit, it's about perception. Conferences without a conference champion, rightly or wrongly, are perceived as weaker by some. It can also limit the revenues the conference members could get. Also, remaining at the current 10 is a nervous position, as all it would take is one or two teams to be poached to severely damage the conferences position nationally.

It appears that the trend is towards larger conferences, not smaller. I liked the old 8 team conference, but I have a feeling the major conferences will end up being 16 team conferences. The trend could certainly reverse itself. But it's worrisome that the big 12 and some or most of it's members don't even seem to want to discuss this issue.

Tidbits on conference realignment talk

I haven't met one OSU fan who wants to the conference to break up. (if there are any on this board speak up!). why? because they know if they don't get OU to carry them to another conference they will slide to a lower conference. OSU can't move alone on its own merits.

OU needs to get out of this conference b/c it becomes the AAC part 2.

Most of the little brother schools do not want to add schools to the conference for several reasons. #1 it will decrease their piece of the money pie that OU and Texas gives to them. #2 if the conference is spilt into 2 divisions no team wants to be in the other division w/out OU and Texas. Now the little brother schools get OU and texas every other year at home (some schools like OSU base their season tickets and marketing on this fact). If a little brother has to go to the other division they don't get to host OU and UT every other year.

OU may be the big brother you but sound like the ultimate ou homer with little no facts. Here's a fact. OSU has higher revenue then the avg P5 schools.

12215

OSU has some of the highest revenue per fan as well, we would be valuable addition to any P5. I suspect Boren has an invite for OU and OSU to the Pac-12, which is where all of his leverage is coming form. We may not be the driving force behind realignment but we aren't a bunch of bums OU has to drag along that no one wants. We can hold our own.

Osu has sold out 1 game in the history of tboone. And the reason only 1 OU game is in the top ten is because there are no single game tickets sold for the OU game. The OU game is why osu sells season tickets. That is not even debatable

This is 100% complete and total bullsh*t.

We implemented that policy to keep ignorant sooners like you from being able to attend the game. It's not the reason we sell season tickets. Holder would rather have 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 empty seats over 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 sooners.

No, that's not what I intended to claim at all. My point is that the OU game has been one of their biggest sellers and that's why Holder implemented the policy of you had to buy season tickets to get the OU game.

This is not true. I was in the freaking room when they made the decision. It is too keep Sooners out. Period.

Keep in mind the governor has veto authority over both BOR and can veto any decision for not acting in the best interests of the university, state, and its people. OU can leave OSU but it's not a cut and dry easy decision. It would be politically difficult even for a Boren.

"But, the final member, and the final authorizing authority over both boards is the Governor. It’s his/her responsibility that the schools are acting in the best interest of the people of the state, and that includes the other school’s system. Since he/she appoints the BOR he can have them replaced. The Governor has final veto."

Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma State REALLY A Package Deal? - Crimson And Cream Machine (http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com/2011/8/12/2360002/are-oklahoma-and-oklahoma-state-really-a-package-deal)

I won't say oh that'll never happen, but it's not a slam dunk either.

This is kind of the big question here isn’t it? I think the Big 10 wants KU and OU and it’s the best location for them for reasons that transcend sports, but can they leave OSU and KSU behind politically? How hard is OU willing to push to leave? With the Big 12 (which is really UT) telling Boren to shut up, I place the odds of KU and OU leaving at 50/50. I think this game is going to backfire hugely on the Big 12 and UT. This is exactly the same kind of crap UT did that upset A&M and Nebraska and led to their leaving.

Colorado left because they were on an island, broke and couldn’t compete. No one is really sure why Missouri left except maybe to prove to Kansas they could, but as we have seen, that whole school is a terribly run dumpster fire on all levels. OU has lots of real UT based reasons to leave now, just like Nebraska and A&M did a few years ago. Does Boren pull the trigger? I think he’s probably getting huge pressure from alumni and donors right now to leave. Kansas is going to be terrified of waiting too long and being left behind, so if OU, KU goes too while they have a place to go. Plus if OU is already leaving, I think that gives a political path in Kansas for KU to leave without KSU.

With KU and OU gone the conference is dead. I think UT would end up independent because no other conference want their drama or network.

I could see OSU going to the SEC or Pac-12 if the Big-12 dies. OSU sports are too well funded and too successful to be left behind. I think KSU would end up ok as well. Baylor and TCU are both successful, but religious. The SEC doesn’t need Texas schools, the Big 10 and Pac-12 don’t want religious schools. Maybe they could go to the ACC? The other schools are in real trouble.

This is 100% complete and total bullsh*t.

We implemented that policy to keep ignorant sooners like you from being able to attend the game. It's not the reason we sell season tickets. Holder would rather have 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 empty seats over 50,000 cowboys and 10,000 sooners.

Why do you have to make it personal ?

Boulder's statement is NOT 100% B.S. First and foremost, OSU has only sold out their stadium one time since the renovation; second there has been only one OU game in the top 10 of attendance because OSU refuses to sell individual tickets to the game. Finally, Mike Holder himself has acknowledged his strategy to not include certain premium games in the season ticket package is designed to provide incentive to purchase season tickets.

What's wrong with saying the truth? If OSU is so butt hurt at being "little brother" they would rather forego the revenue (upwards of $1 million) for 10,000 unsold tickets, then who is ignorant ? Mike Holder made a strategic decision to increase season ticket sales and it has worked as the ticket based has steadily increased. This is neither ignorant or some childish way to keep Sooners from attending the game.