This seems like the appropriate place to post this thread.

Does anyone here have any feedback, tips, anecdotes, etc.. on the Phoenix area? I'm looking for the perspective on the city from an "Oklahoman point of view".

Thanks.

This seems like the appropriate place to post this thread.

Does anyone here have any feedback, tips, anecdotes, etc.. on the Phoenix area? I'm looking for the perspective on the city from an "Oklahoman point of view".

Thanks.

My son and his wife have lived there about a year and a half. They are from here. They really like the winters, stay inside during the summers. They live in a nice area of Chandler where housing is moderate. They live in a gated community. They want to move to Scottsdale but the housing prices are astronomical....They love the international airport and the direct flights to Hawaii. Overall, they like it way more than Denver because of the weather.. the cold weather ran them off.

I have family in Phoenix and have always had a liking for the place. It couldn't be more different than OKC when it comes to climate, scenery, and architecture style. With that said, I have always thought the two cities are very comparable in terms of how they developed, and that OKC would be very much like Phoenix if it was larger. Both cities are very suburban in nature and the main arteries are built in mile grids. Both cities have a very "open" layout as opposed to the more compact urban development common in eastern states. Downtown OKC is ahead of downtown Phoenix in some ways but behind in others. If you are looking for an impressive, walkable, urban environment then downtown Phoenix will leave you underwhelmed. Scottsdale on the other hand is awesome in this regard. Phoenix is quite a bit more libertarian in attitude than OKC; right leaning, but less socially conservative.

The way I look at it is Phoenix is to Los Angeles what Oklahoma City is to Dallas (taking in to account perspective size differences). Phoenix is a pretty nice place to live, but as a tourist I would spend time in Arizona's mountain towns such as Sedona, Flagstaff, or Prescott over Phoenix.

This seems like the appropriate place to post this thread.

Does anyone here have any feedback, tips, anecdotes, etc.. on the Phoenix area? I'm looking for the perspective on the city from an "Oklahoman point of view".

Thanks.

Have family stationed at Luke AFB; they don't really feel too strongly one way or another but are in the process of moving back to Tinker or another base in TX. I myself have been out there a few times and was somewhat in the same camp.

They (like me) really love the desert environment. Just know that it is HOT. I went out there in October a fear years back and it was still well over 100...and the "dry heat" did not make it any bearable. Old timers will tell you the growth of the city and all of the concrete, pools, and non-native landscaping has made it more uncomfortable than in years past. One the flip side, no ice storms or tornadoes. Just the occasional haboob.

Just talking to them, they really like the city more as a jump off point to other areas (LA, San Diego, Vegas, Grand Canyon etc) rather than the city itself...this isn't to suggest that PHX is bad though. The city does offer tons of outdoor/recreational activities like golf, hiking, and biking. There's also a surprising number of lakes within a 1-2 hour drive.

Unfortunately they found the economy to be a bit lacking...that is really the main reason they are relocating. My cousin's wife has not really been able to use her degree. No real industry out there besides real estate, which hasn't recovered from the 2008 crash, tourism, call centers, and services/medical care for all the retirees and snowbirds. Like other "lifestyle cities," pay can be depressed. Basically it's a lot like Florida. Its a great place to live if you've made your money elsewhere, or are the doctor/lawyer/CPA/yoga instructor to the people who made their money elsewhere.

The way I look at it is Phoenix is to Los Angeles what Oklahoma City is to Dallas (taking in to account perspective size differences).

I find this a very apt comparison as cities, having lived in Dallas-Fort Worth most of my childhood and now living in Oklahoma City, and having grandparents in Phoenix and relatives in L.A.

That being said, there seems to be a lot more active-lifestyle amenities in Phoenix than OKC, probably due to the mountainous terrain surrounding Phoenix (and some smaller peaks inside the metro). Phoenix (Tempe, technically) also dammed up it's otherwise-dry river for use in riversports long before OKC did.

For all the sprawled development patterns, I think it fits better in Phoenix than it does here. The desert climate leaves things looking cleaner and less run-down over longer periods of time (even if it does get dusty on occasion). There are also some good areas for more walkable, urban environments. You mentioned Scottsdale, but downtowns Tempe and Mesa are pretty good in that regard, too, and perhaps have benefits that make up for the lack of money (compared to Scottsdale) due to the college and light rail presence.

I guess I'll close with one anecdote. This past September, my wife and I drove out to spend some time with my grandparents. After having gone out to eat dinner one night, the return trip took us right through a surprise heavy downpour. My grandparents live in the East Valley (far eastern Mesa), and the landscape around there is really flat. It didn't take much rain at all to create flash flooding situation, with water rising higher than I've probably ever driven through--it was like the flooding last spring in OKC, only with significantly less rainfall as a cause. I about killed my grandparents' Camry trying to get home. Terrifying, considering it wasn't raining THAT much.

^^^ Completely agree with this assessment.

In terms of active lifestyle amenities, Phoenix is blessed with a great location in the mountains. They also have the benefit of great weather for much of the year, as the extreme heat is pretty much a late May through late September thing. Winters and springs are beautiful there.

I also agree about the sprawl. Subdivisions out there built in the 1980s look a lot better today than subdivisions the same age in OKC. This is likely due to a combination of weather and better building and landscaping codes as well as more attractive natural flora (palm trees, cactus, etc). Most rooftops out there use Spanish tile instead of shingles, which holds up for a lot longer.

Good point about the rains. I have been out there for a few rains and while it doesn't rain often, when it does, its torrential and causes flooding issues.

Scottsdale is where it's at. When I did the Fiesta Bowl we stayed there. The ranchy stuff everywhere else (Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, Surprise, etc) is gross. Tempe is showing promise. Phoenix proper is basically just the north side of OKC, minus historical pockets. Think Classen, NW Expressway, May, Hefner, Memorial Road, etc...

Scottsdale is where it's at. When I did the Fiesta Bowl we stayed there. The ranchy stuff everywhere else (Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, Surprise, etc) is gross. Tempe is showing promise. Phoenix proper is basically just the north side of OKC, minus historical pockets. Think Classen, NW Expressway, May, Hefner, Memorial Road, etc...

Scottsdale is Santa Fe without the history, cooler climate, skiing, or Bohemian vibe. It's like a combo of Santa Fe and north Edmond or west Plano, TX. If that's your thing, more power to you. It's fun to visit, but can be offputting if you've got a more blue collar background.

There are a lot of similarities between many parts of Phoenix proper and those areas of OKC, but to claim there are no historical pockets is nonsense. Phoenix has as many historical pockets--neighborhoods where homes built in the first half of the 20th century predominate and that feature probably a wider array of architectural styles than OKC's overwhelming amount of craftsman bungalows and prairie homes masquerading as brick-laden Tudor Revival--as OKC. There are also neighborhoods in every one of the other cities mentioned (except maybe Surprise) that also have historic architecture. Downtown Phoenix has experienced a renaissance over the last 20 years just like OKC, and is continually expanding north up the Central Ave. corridor into Phoenix's Midtown area. Mesa has a sizeable downtown area, too, that has a lot of monthly street festivals, etc., and a top-notch Arts Center. And you already mentioned Tempe and Scottsdale.

Don't get me wrong--Metro Phoenix has a lot of sprawling ranch subdivisions and commercial strip centers and office complexes that have been built since 1960. A lot more than OKC does, for sure, since Phoenix has grown a lot more during that time period and is considerably larger than OKC. My point is that you shouldn't be too quick to judge a community based on limited exposure. I know I wouldn't want anyone judging OKC based on driving through it on any of the freeways or staying for a couple of days in one part of town. I've been a regular visitor to Phoenix most of my life (uncle lives in Ahwatukee, grandparents in Mesa, extended relatives in Glendale/Surprise area). I've seen a lot of it, and at various times of the year, and can honestly say it's underrated and too-quickly-dismissed by too many people.

Now that I think about it....if someone wants to live in the southwest but still have some of the Oklahoma vibe, I would tell them to look at Albuquerque over Phoenix. Not a knock on Phoenix, but personally I love that area and would move there in a heartbeat, although it is going through something of a rough patch right now.

I do agree about Scottsdale. We stayed in Old Town during the last time OU was in the Fiesta Bowl and I found it to be insufferably pretentious. It reminded me a lot of McKinney Avenue in Dallas, which I loathe with the intensity of a thousand suns. And I don't come from a blue collar background at all.

I think, like OKC, Phoenix's reputation is tarnished nationally because the metro is so dominated by sprawling ranch subdivisions and strip malls that you really have to seek out the cool spots, and most people simply driving through aren't going to make the effort to do so. Both I-10 through Phoenix and I-40 through OKC don't paint a pretty picture. The nice areas are also a bit harder to find in Phoenix if you don't know the area. Last time I was there, downtown was alright (though underwhelming for its size) but the area surrounding the CBD was a wasteland. Of course, this was 10 years ago. Maybe they've seen an urban boom since? Phoenix has a fully functional streetcar, which is something that currently have over OKC. Whether you love it or hate it, I think Scottsdale is easily the crown jewel of the Phoenix metro.

As for Albuquerque, I don't think it has much similarities to OKC at all. It is much more liberal for starters. It also has a lot of unique architecture that cannot be mistaken for Phoenix or for Oklahoma/Texas. Plus, you are on the doorsteps of Santa Fe which is an amazing place. Albuquerque also doesn't have near the Southern influence that OKC does. Albuquerque is a cool city, but I wouldn't say it has much of an Oklahoma vibe at all. Eastern New Mexico, out by Tucumcari, has moreso.

I think, like OKC, Phoenix's reputation is tarnished nationally because the metro is so dominated by sprawling ranch subdivisions and strip malls that you really have to seek out the cool spots, and most people simply driving through aren't going to make the effort to do so. Both I-10 through Phoenix and I-40 through OKC don't paint a pretty picture. The nice areas are also a bit harder to find in Phoenix if you don't know the area. Last time I was there, downtown was alright (though underwhelming for its size) but the area surrounding the CBD was a wasteland. Of course, this was 10 years ago. Maybe they've seen an urban boom since? Phoenix has a fully functional streetcar, which is something that currently have over OKC.

The light rail has changed a lot. That plus other programs have generated over $4 billion in new development downtown since you were there last: Downtown on Top: ABC15 tracks rapid growth, development of Downtown Phoenix - ABC15 Arizona (http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/downtown-on-top-abc15-tracks-rapid-growth-development-of-downtown-phoenix). (It's also worth noting here--given much of the sentiment in the OKC Talk "TIF" thread--that Phoenix has done this without the use of tax increment financing, since Arizona law doesn't allow it.)

There's also a growing movement with young people, similar to ULI's Young Leaders program in OKC--that has been doing a lot to grow Downtown Phoenix's presence: This Could Be Phoenix | Creative Urban Awareness (http://www.thiscouldbephx.com/)

There's also a growing movement with young people, similar to ULI's Young Leaders program in OKC--that has been doing a lot to grow Downtown Phoenix's presence: This Could Be Phoenix | Creative Urban Awareness (http://www.thiscouldbephx.com/)

I really like this.

Like OKC, downtown Phoenix has a ton of vacant space to work with to really build an urban playground. One advantage that Phoenix has is that its a much larger market and its economy is not based on oil & gas. That should make it easier to get financing for large developments so once the ball really gets rolling it should snowball fast, like Uptown Dallas did.

. . . Tucson in a heart beat!!

I spent the last 5 days at the 2016 American Planning Association National Conference, which was held in Phoenix. My conference track did not allow for much exploration of the area outside of the immediate downtown area and the light rail, but I did manage to take some photos of downtown from the vicinity of the Phoenix Convention Center. A few of the shots can see some of the surrounding landscape in the background.

Phoenix has a changed a lot over the last 10-15 years, in many of the same ways as Oklahoma City. In fact, that seemed to be a recurring theme in the conference sessions--a very large chunk of major metro areas that may not have always had great urban things going for them or had been in decline over the last half of the 20th century have been experiencing their own versions of the type of renaissance we've seen here. Granted, there are still several cities trying but not having much luck at it, but there seemed to be more success stories. I suppose my point here is that we need to be aware that our current situation (oil markets and state budget issues aside) may not be unique, and we should not fall into the opposite trap as some places by some faith-like insistence that it is at the cost of further improvement, but it's at least good to know we're not being left behind the curve.

Anywho, enjoy the limited number of photos I was able to snap, and sorry for the poor quality of some of them.

Downtown

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Light Rail
(The light rail was completely packed when I got in on Friday night--the Suns were playing a home game, the Diamondbacks were playing their last preseason game, and downtown Phoenix was having what they called "First Friday," which is really similar to First Fridays in the Paseo or Second Fridays in the Plaza District, only on a much larger scale covering a good portion of downtown Phoenix, and included several of the City's museums remaining open late and with free admission.)

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One of my favorite things about Phoenix is that they have In-N-Out. I also enjoy that it's not far to some very mountainous and scenic areas just to the east.