View Full Version : Macy's at Quail Springs Mall is going out of buisiness.



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Soonerman
01-06-2016, 04:24 PM
http://okcfox.com/news/nation-world/macys-to-cut-thousands-of-jobs-after-weak-holiday-sales-01-06-2016-230538466

SomeGuy
01-06-2016, 04:35 PM
Bad news, Hopefully they try to fill it up as soon as possible or other tenants and anchors might soon follow. Would Bon-Ton ever work in Quail Springs?

Soonerman
01-06-2016, 04:36 PM
Maybe a Belk could go in there??

bchris02
01-06-2016, 04:39 PM
When it was announced that Macy's was closing 40 stores I figured QSM would be one of them. It's probably the worst Macy's I have ever shopped at. I'm not sure if its even been upgraded since it was Foley's. The Dillard's isn't much better and if I were them I would consider a remodel quick.

I would be happy if Belk went in there. Belk was my favorite department store when I lived in Charlotte and it would be nice to have them here.

If the mall is able to refill it with a quality tenant, this could be a good thing for the mall.

brianinok
01-06-2016, 04:42 PM
This is Macy's own fault for not investing in that store. It's horribly outdated. Worse than Dillard's. Plus when they bought out Foley's they took out higher brands like Polo. So the store had no identity. The store at Penn is so much better.

Soonerman
01-06-2016, 04:54 PM
When it was announced that Macy's was closing 40 stores I figured QSM would be one of them. It's probably the worst Macy's I have ever shopped at. I'm not sure if its even been upgraded since it was Foley's. The Dillard's isn't much better and if I were them I would consider a remodel quick.

I would be happy if Belk went in there. Belk was my favorite department store when I lived in Charlotte and it would be nice to have them here.

If the mall is able to refill it with a quality tenant, this could be a good thing for the mall.
Yea, I was thinking the same thing especially with Von Maur being there now, I figured if Macy's didn't renovate that place they would be gone within 2 years. You go in there you feel like you're in a time warp back to 1985.

bchris02
01-06-2016, 04:58 PM
Yea, I was thinking the same thing especially with Von Maur being there now, I figured if Macy's didn't renovate that place they would be gone within 2 years. You go in there you feel like you're in a time warp back to 1985.

Yeah, it's the Macy's equivalent of the 18th and Classen Homeland.

Dillard's needs to get on the ball and remodel or they will be next. Hopefully QSM is able to find a quality tenant to replace Macy's.

Plutonic Panda
01-06-2016, 05:02 PM
Here are the ones that are closing.

Irvine Spectrum, Irvine, CA (140,000 square feet; opened in 2002; 112 associates);
Country Club Plaza, Sacramento, CA (165,000 square feet; opened in 1961; 111 associates);
Westfield Century City, Los Angeles, CA (136,000 square feet; opened in 1976; 108 associates). Note that this store will be closed in January 2016 and replaced with a new, larger store to open in this same shopping center in spring 2017;
Enfield Square main store, Enfield, CT (166,000 square feet; opened in 1971; 84 associates);
Enfield Square furniture/home/men’s store, Enfield, CT (76,000 square feet; opened in 1971; 20 associates);
North DeKalb Mall, Decatur, GA (190,000 square feet; opened in 1965; 89 associates);
Kailua, HI (59,000 square feet; opened in 1946; 57 associates);
Palouse Mall, Moscow, ID (41,000 square feet; opened in 1979; 47 associates);
Northwoods Mall, Peoria, IL (165,000 square feet; opened in 1985; 62 associates);
Cortana Mall, Baton Rouge, LA (243,000 square feet; opened in 1976; 108 associates);
Valley Mall, Hagerstown, MD (120,000 square feet; opened in 1999; 59 associates);
Berkshire Mall, Lanesborough, MA (111,000 square feet; opened in 1994; 58 associates);
Eastfield Mall, Springfield, MA (127,000 square feet; opened in 1994; 71 associates);
The Shoppes at Stadium, Columbia, MO (140,000 square feet; opened in 2003; 81 associates);
Middlesex Mall, South Plainfield, NJ (81,000 square feet; opened in 1976; 69 associates);
McKinley Mall main store, Buffalo, NY (88,000 square feet; opened in 1989; 65 associates);
McKinley Mall home store, Buffalo, NY (31,000 Square feet; opened in 1989; 10 associates);
Arnot Mall, Horsehead, NY (120,000 square feet; opened in 1995; 79 associates);
Hudson Valley Mall, Kingston, NY (121,000 square feet; opened in 1995; 72 associates);
Eastern Hills Mall, Williamsville, NY (127,000 square feet; opened in 1971; 80 associates);
Cary Towne Center, Cary, NC (107,000 square feet; opened in 1991; 63 associates);
Chapel Hill Mall, Akron, OH (169,000 square feet; opened in 1967; 91 associates);
Midway Mall, Elyria, OH (105,000 square feet; opened in 1990; 64 associates);
Quail Springs Mall, Oklahoma City, OK (146,000 square feet; opened in 1986; 87 associates);
Pony Village Mall, North Bend, OR (41,000 square feet; opened in 1980; 54 associates);
Roseburg Valley Mall, Roseburg, OR (40,000 square feet; opened in 1980; 59 associates);
Suburban Square, Ardmore, PA (102,000 square feet; opened in 1930; 74 associates);
Century III Mall, West Mifflin, PA (173,000 square feet; opened in 1979; 101 associates);
Ridgmar Mall, Ft. Worth, TX (181,000 square feet; opened in 1998; 92 associates);
Chesapeake Square, Chesapeake, VA (95,000 square feet; opened in 1999; 69 associates);
Virginia Center Commons, Glen Allen, VA (110,000 square feet; opened in 1993; 81 associates);
Peninsula Town Center, Hampton, VA (173,000 square feet; opened in 1977; 109 associates);
Military Circle Mall, Norfolk, VA (153,000 square feet; opened in 1976; 95 associates);
Regency Square main store, Richmond, VA (100,000 square feet; opened in 1990; 100 associates);
Regency Square furniture/home/men’s store, Richmond, VA (124,000 square feet; opened in 1990; 35 associates);
Downtown Spokane, Spokane, WA (374,000 square feet; opened in 1947; 94 associates).

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84477&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2126953

Patrick
01-06-2016, 06:42 PM
Bad news for QSM. Anytime you lose one of your major anchors it's not a good sign. I think QSM is in trouble and has been for some time.

I can't say I'm really surprised about this. Quail was one of Macy's underperforming stores. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if Dillard's is next to move out. If Dillards follows suit and leaves, the mall will be in a serious state of decline that owners (GGP) may not be able to overcome. I think if Dillard's leaves, the mall is toast. Dillard's isn't quite as bad off nationally though as Macy's is, so I bet they continue operations at Quail, albeit investing little into an underperforming store.

The reason stores don't invest in remodels at QSM is because there's no return for the investment. Back when I was part of the Wileman-Belle Isle HOA and became friends with the mall manager at Penn Square, the data showed that sales per square foot were more than 6 times greater at Penn than Quail. Quail Springs was one of the weakest performing malls in the south region when looking at sales per square foot, which is the main statistic that retailers look at when making these types of decisions. In comparison, Penn has one of the highest sales per square foot of any mall in the south region, and they're definitely first in the state, ahead of even their sister mall, Woodland Hills. That and the limited space are the reasons that Penn has a long waiting list of prospective tenants. The main reason H&M chose Quail is because they had the empty space (Penn just didn't have that large of a space available and wasn't going to be able to accommodate them in the foreseeable future). Von Maur chose Quail because they had the space available, it was a new market for them, and Quail (General Growth Properties - GGP) offered them large financial incentives to move there. From what I've heard through the retail grapevine, sales at Von Maur haven't been great and the only reason they've stayed is because of the large investment that was made in the property, the incentives, and the long term lease. Of note, at higher performing malls, competition can work the system the opposite direction, where retailers put up money to bid for spaces. For example, at Penn, Forever 21 replaced Pottery Barn Kids because they put in a higher guarantee for the space. Same for Foot Locker which took over the J's Hallmark space, forcing Hallmark out of the mall. Also, for the most part, when a retailer is going to have to choose 1 location for the entire city, they're going to pick the location with highest sales. Thus, the reason Macy's is closing their QSM location and keeping the Penn location open. And most retailers are going to invest more in their store locations with higher sales, where there's a higher return on the investment, thus the reasons for the upgrades at the Penn locations and not the Quail locations. Also, the mall owner can dictate remodels as well. I know that Simon used to require remodels every few years. But Simon can be a little more picky with Penn since they have a waiting list and thus competition.

I do think that a store like Belk would be a good fit for Quail. It's a little lower end than Macy's, which seems to fit more of the target demographic that mall management is trying to attract. Their target is more middle class families, and always has been. The only problem with that is that middle class families are leaving mall retailers in favor of discount big box retailers. The strip shopping centers on Memorial are really squeezing Quail out of the market. In comparison Penn tries to market more to the young professional and professional mother/home maker, people living in the inner city upscale neighborhoods like Crown Heights/Heritage Hills, and of course Nichols Hills, which keeps Penn afloat. IMO, Quail really missed the boat by not going more upscale, to try to attract the Edmond crowd, and even the crowd within the general vicinity of the mall....there are lots of higher end rooftops within a mile radius of Quail, including Gaillardia, which Quail is really missing out on by not targeting. Instead, upscale shopping villages in Edmond like Spring Creek have taken the lead with that demographic. One thing to also consider is location. Being farther north, Quail draws mostly from north OKC and Edmond. Being more centrally located, Penn draws from all over the city. So Penn has a lot larger demographic.

I think Quail is in trouble. Belk might come to their rescue, but given Quail's poor sales numbers in general, it won't be an easy sale. Still, GGP is a large retail management corp that has a lot of connections, power in the retailer industry, and capital. And they can offer incentives to land a Belk in the space. But they'll have to offset the poor sales performance of retailers in that mall.

Pete
01-06-2016, 08:35 PM
It's too bad there is a Super Target nearby because increasingly they are going into malls and doing very well.

Malls and departments stores everywhere are struggling... Isn't Quail pretty well leased up otherwise though?

Patrick
01-06-2016, 08:39 PM
It's too bad there is a Super Target nearby because increasingly they are going into malls and doing very well.

Malls and departments stores everywhere are struggling... Isn't Quail pretty well leased up otherwise though?

Yeah, prior to this they were leased at 92%. They do have a lot of off mall stores like the "Cash and Gold" store though. Non national retailers.

Pete
01-06-2016, 08:41 PM
Right, but they also brought in two big retailers that were highly coveted and completely new to the state: H&M and Von Maur.

In fact, they had to move a bunch of tenants around and not renew several leases to make room for H&M.

Plutonic Panda
01-06-2016, 08:54 PM
Bad news for QSM. Anytime you lose one of your major anchors it's not a good sign. I think QSM is in trouble and has been for some time.

I think Quail is in trouble. Belk might come to their rescue, but given Quail's poor sales numbers in general, it won't be an easy sale. Still, GGP is a large retail management corp that has a lot of connections, power in the retailer industry, and capital. And they can offer incentives to land a Belk in the space. But they'll have to offset the poor sales performance of retailers in that mall.
I really don't think Quail Springs is in trouble in the sense of the mall is going to become the next Crossroads. There is a lot money and with Chisholm Creek, I think they are going to become better due the new competition. OKC can easily support two malls. I bet we see a Belk or a Nordstrom take this place.

Patrick
01-06-2016, 09:12 PM
I really don't think Quail Springs is in trouble in the sense of the mall is going to become the next Crossroads. There is a lot money and with Chisholm Creek, I think they are going to become better due the new competition. OKC can easily support two malls. I bet we see a Belk or a Nordstrom take this place.

I doubt Nordstrom. I just don't think the mall is upscale enough for that. And especially given the sales data for the mall. Just being realistic. When one upscale department store fails it's hard to see another take its place. Plus, nationally Nordstrom isn't doing much better than Macy's. They're closing stores, not opening new ones. But I'm hoping for Belk. I really feel that Belk would be a good fit for that mall. And they're a growing chain that's doing pretty well financially. So maybe a good possibility.

Plutonic Panda
01-06-2016, 09:20 PM
I doubt Nordstrom. I just don't think the mall is upscale enough for that. And especially given the sales data for the mall. Just being realistic. When one upscale department store fails it's hard to see another take its place. Plus, nationally Nordstrom isn't doing much better than Macy's. They're closing stores, not opening new ones. But I'm hoping for Belk. I really feel that Belk would be a good fit for that mall. And they're a growing chain that's doing pretty well financially. So maybe a good possibility.

They've opened a few new ones across the nation, but I think they've all been in lifestyle centers. I think Quail Springs just needs a huge update. At least a 30+ million dollar remodel. I think they should also build a parking garage somewhere and develop a portion of the parking because I almost never see it full. In fact, I don't even recall seeing it full on Black Friday. Hopefully with these new apartments going in directly to the north, it'll help a little.

bchris02
01-06-2016, 09:24 PM
I have said for a long time that in 2016, enclosed malls need to go upscale or go home. The old model of targeting middle class families doesn't work anymore as they have moved on to big box discounters. Lower-tier malls are struggling nationwide. QSM has the demographics surrounding it to be a lot more high end than it is. Not sure what can be done at this point to change their model. To attract the stores the mall needs, a higher sales per square foot will be needed. My hope was that Von Maur and H&M would help the mall get there but from that Patrick is saying, it is still struggling.

bchris02
01-06-2016, 09:27 PM
I think Quail Springs just needs a huge update. At least a 30+ million dollar remodel. I think they should also build a parking garage somewhere and develop a portion of the parking because I almost never see it full. In fact, I don't even recall seeing it full on Black Friday. Hopefully with these new apartments going in directly to the north, it'll help a little.

Completely agree with this.

The problem for QSM has nothing to do with demographics. New apartments, housing, or whatever gets built around it won't help it. The mall needs to shift from the failing model of targeting middle-income families to going upscale. The mall needs to compete with Penn Square and try to one up it rather than positioning itself as OKC's lower-tier mall.

Patrick
01-06-2016, 09:40 PM
Completely agree with this.

The problem for QSM has nothing to do with demographics. New apartments, housing, or whatever gets built around it won't help it. The mall needs to shift from the failing model of targeting middle-income families to going upscale. The mall needs to compete with Penn Square and try to one up it rather than positioning itself as OKC's lower-tier mall.

I agree completely! The demographics around the mall are definitely there to support upscale retail. I mean, you have Gaillardia to the west, Quail Creek to the south, Edmond to the north, and lots of new upscale neighborhoods in between. But for some reason that's not translating into sales for the mall. The data there just shows it can't support it. And thus the reason why you have big time retailers saying they're not coming here because we can't support it. If Quail can't support a Macy's, what proof is there to show that Nordstrom will do well there? By the way, one of my friends is a manager in the men's department at Von Maur and he says that the place is dead. It's sad to hear comments like that.

Patrick
01-06-2016, 09:50 PM
They've opened a few new ones across the nation, but I think they've all been in lifestyle centers. I think Quail Springs just needs a huge update. At least a 30+ million dollar remodel. I think they should also build a parking garage somewhere and develop a portion of the parking because I almost never see it full. In fact, I don't even recall seeing it full on Black Friday. Hopefully with these new apartments going in directly to the north, it'll help a little.

QSM had a major facelift in the early 2000's when they put in the new tile, skylights, glass railings, and food court/movie theater. Problem was they went with a theme that is more geared towards middle class families. Meanwhile, Penn has renovated twice and put in marble floors, marble everything, glass railings, new lighting, and went with an upscale modern contemporary look. Completely different demographic you're targeting there.

jbkrems
01-06-2016, 09:50 PM
Belk would be the best fit for Quail Springs Mall; they do well at the Dallas Galleria and I believe there is a Belk in Owasso, as well, in the big lifestyle center up there. Meanwhile, other tenants are going to be following... it was written up today that Disney was going to be leaving the mall. Also, I was at Quail Springs Mall tonight, and another tenant said it would leave and not renew their lease. I won't say who that tenant is, but they've been there at least 5 years. :(

Patrick
01-06-2016, 10:06 PM
Belk would be the best fit for Quail Springs Mall; they do well at the Dallas Galleria and I believe there is a Belk in Owasso, as well, in the big lifestyle center up there. Meanwhile, other tenants are going to be following... it was written up today that Disney was going to be leaving the mall. Also, I was at Quail Springs Mall tonight, and another tenant said it would leave and not renew their lease. I won't say who that tenant is, but they've been there at least 5 years. :(

Disney actually left the mall last year to make way for the new H&M.

Plutonic Panda
01-06-2016, 10:10 PM
I agree completely! The demographics around the mall are definitely there to support upscale retail. I mean, you have Gaillardia to the west, Quail Creek to the south, Edmond to the north, and lots of new upscale neighborhoods in between. But for some reason that's not translating into sales for the mall. The data there just shows it can't support it. And thus the reason why you have big time retailers saying they're not coming here because we can't support it. If Quail can't support a Macy's, what proof is there to show that Nordstrom will do well there? By the way, one of my friends is a manager in the men's department at Von Maur and he says that the place is dead. It's sad to hear comments like that.

I'm not a fan of Von Maur. It really seems to be more for older folks. Though I do hope it does good.

Zorba
01-06-2016, 10:40 PM
Belk would be the best fit for Quail Springs Mall; they do well at the Dallas Galleria and I believe there is a Belk in Owasso, as well, in the big lifestyle center up there. Meanwhile, other tenants are going to be following... it was written up today that Disney was going to be leaving the mall. Also, I was at Quail Springs Mall tonight, and another tenant said it would leave and not renew their lease. I won't say who that tenant is, but they've been there at least 5 years. :(

There are two Belks around Tulsa, one in Owasso and one at Tulsa Hills.

Personally, I think Macys has about the worst branding of any chain of stores. Since they rebranded Folley's and others into Macys, but put in zero investment. You never knew if you are going to be walking into a grand, beautiful highend store, or the ugliest, torn up POS department store you've ever seen. When I was in Cincinnati, there was a Macys that I would say was the worst department store I've ever been to, 10 miles away was a Macys that is the nicest Macys I've ever been in, except for NYC. The QSM store was in horrible shape, of course no one was spending money there.

I think QSM is better now than when I moved here 2.5 years ago, but anecdotally I agree that Von Maur is not very busy, even though it is a great store. Even the parking lot around it is usually pretty empty and is where I always park.

bchris02
01-07-2016, 12:10 AM
Personally, I think Macys has about the worst branding of any chain of stores. Since they rebranded Folley's and others into Macys, but put in zero investment. You never knew if you are going to be walking into a grand, beautiful highend store, or the ugliest, torn up POS department store you've ever seen. When I was in Cincinnati, there was a Macys that I would say was the worst department store I've ever been to, 10 miles away was a Macys that is the nicest Macys I've ever been in, except for NYC. The QSM store was in horrible shape, of course no one was spending money there.


I agree with this. Macy's once had the reputation of being a high end store, almost as prestigious as Nordstrom. After they purchased Foley's and other regional department stores, they let so many of them rot that it somewhat ruined their reputation. I don't believe the QSM location had a single remodel since it opened in 1986. Did it originally open as a Foley's or was a John A. Brown before that?

Some will say that QSM "couldn't support" a Macy's so how could it support Nordstrom, but Macy's at QSM failed because it sucked and they didn't invest in the location. Why would anybody shop there when the one at Penn is so much better that its hard to believe its even the same store?

I want to reiterate that GGP needs to do something to push QSM in a more upscale direction. That is the only way the mall is going to survive long term because the only enclosed malls that are doing well in 2016 are those that have gone upscale. The demographics are there to support it, so if GGP doesn't take advantage of that its a sign of their own failure. If they don't change course, the mall will be headed the way of Crossroads within the next 10-15 years. If Chisholm Creek becomes what it could potentially be, attracting upscale retailers, it could further accelerate the decline of QSM. Now is the time for them to get serious or it will be too late.

Brett
01-07-2016, 04:15 AM
"Did it originally open as a Foley's or was a John A. Brown before that?"

I do remember prior to Foley's it was Sanger-Harris which didn't last long.

Swake
01-07-2016, 09:22 AM
I'm not a fan of Von Maur. It really seems to be more for older folks. Though I do hope it does good.

Belk is pretty poor as well. Also very focused on older people. Its really not much nicer than a Kohls.

Patrick
01-07-2016, 09:34 AM
One thing I learned is that Macy's actually owns the property at Quail Springs Mall. So GGP will have to purchase the property from Macy's in order to gain control of it. This may take months. They had the same problem with the old Sears space.

bchris02
01-07-2016, 09:36 AM
Belk is pretty poor as well. Also very focused on older people. Its really not much nicer than a Kohls.

That isn't the case for the newer, nicer locations. The Belk's in Charlotte I would put on the level of Dillard's and Macy's. They are above JC Penney and Kohls.

I believe the ones in the Tulsa area are older locations and not ones that have been converted from Parisian, as are many of the ones in major metro areas farther east.

Urbanized
01-07-2016, 09:48 AM
I do remember prior to Foley's it was Sanger-Harris which didn't last long.

That's correct. The sequence was John A. Brown > Sanger-Harris > Foley's > Macy's. Circa 1990 I worked in the Men's Furnishings department at Foley's.

bchris02
01-07-2016, 09:51 AM
That's correct. The sequence was John A. Brown > Sanger-Harris > Foley's > Macy's. Circa 1990 I worked in the Men's Furnishings department at Foley's.

Was there a single remodel the entire time?

Urbanized
01-07-2016, 09:54 AM
Haha it doesn't seem like it, does it? I remember at the time that we were jealous of the PSM store, which had seen a nice renovation and was renovated again when Macy's came. Every time I've been to PSM in the past decade (which is admittedly rare), Macy's felt pretty much the same as the Foley's I worked in.

bchris02
01-07-2016, 09:56 AM
Haha it doesn't seem like it, does it? I remember at the time that we were jealous of the PSM store, which had seen a nice renovation and was renovated again when Macy's came. Every time I've been to PSM in the past decade (which is admittedly rare), Macy's felt pretty much the same as the Foley's I worked in.

When I used to live in far north OKC I would go to the QSM Macy's and would come out disappointed every time and end up going to Penn Square. I would ask the employees if they had specific things and they would usually send me to Penn Square. It's like they aren't even the same store and almost like they didn't even want business.

Urbanized
01-07-2016, 09:59 AM
It (Foley's) didn't feel especially outdated in 1990; the PSM location just felt nicer and more upscale. But 1990 is a long, long ways from 2016.

jdcf
01-07-2016, 11:20 AM
The Tulsa area Belk stores and the Stillwater store are relatively new (< 8 yrs old ?) and sit in strip centers similar to Belle Isle Station. The size and merchandise very much remind me of Kohls. I do understand that there are larger Belk stores with more merchandise and higher quality merchandise than these Okla stores, Dallas Galleria for example. QSM might well be a good fit for a larger Belk store.

I suspect that the QSM Macy's was done in by the specific store itself as well as the national corporation even more than the current Okla economy. Have never been a fan of Macy's and the QSM store was horrible.

Plutonic Panda
01-07-2016, 12:09 PM
Oklahoma City Macy's on store closure list | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-macys-on-store-closure-list/article/5470975)

(the comments are hilarious)

Swake
01-07-2016, 12:11 PM
That isn't the case for the newer, nicer locations. The Belk's in Charlotte I would put on the level of Dillard's and Macy's. They are above JC Penney and Kohls.

I believe the ones in the Tulsa area are older locations and not ones that have been converted from Parisian, as are many of the ones in major metro areas farther east.

What are you talking about? The Belk locations in Tulsa are very new. Both of them built as Belk stores in the last 5 years or so. I've not been to the one in Owasso but I can't imagine it's too different from the Tulsa Hills location. It's just not a good store and far smaller than Macy's or Dillards with a small fraction of the selection. The Macy's and Dillard's locations in Tulsa are all several times larger than Belk. Now the Macys at Quail and the one in Norman (is that still there?) are smaller but the one at Penn is the same size as the two Tulsa stores. If I recall correctly the Macys at Crossroads was a larger store.

bchris02
01-07-2016, 12:15 PM
What are you talking about? The Belk locations in Tulsa are very new. Both of them built as Belk stores in the last 5 years or so. I've not been to the one in Owasso but I can't imagine it's too different from the Tulsa Hills location. It's just not a good store and far smaller than Macy's or Dillards with a small fraction of the selection. The Macy's and Dillard's locations in Tulsa are all several times larger than Belk. Now the Macys at Quail and the one in Norman (is that still there?) are smaller but the one at Penn is the same size as the two Tulsa stores. If I recall correctly the Macys at Crossroads was a larger store.

I haven't been in any Oklahoma locations. I know Belk changed a lot when they purchased Parisian from Saks Fifth Avenue. The locations I am familiar with are Little Rock and the ones in Charlotte, where they are a dominant player. Those stores are very nice, large, and on par with Dillard's and Macy's.

adaniel
01-07-2016, 12:49 PM
What are you talking about? The Belk locations in Tulsa are very new. Both of them built as Belk stores in the last 5 years or so. I've not been to the one in Owasso but I can't imagine it's too different from the Tulsa Hills location. It's just not a good store and far smaller than Macy's or Dillards with a small fraction of the selection. The Macy's and Dillard's locations in Tulsa are all several times larger than Belk. Now the Macys at Quail and the one in Norman (is that still there?) are smaller but the one at Penn is the same size as the two Tulsa stores. If I recall correctly the Macys at Crossroads was a larger store.

I have been to Belk flagship in the Dallas Galleria. At first glance it is a very nice store. Then you start looking at the merchandise and you fall kinda flat. Really no different than anything you would find a mid level store like Kohls. A Belk could work in QS but obviously that mall has issues.

I think we should really challenge the assumption about the QS area. Yes this area has money, but no density of money. Penn area has just as much $$ and far more density. Why would someone take a rather long drive across the section line roads of North OKC when for a extra five minutes of driving time, they can hop on Lake Hefner Pkwy to NW Expressway and be at a nicer mall? Also, For every million dollar gated neighborhood you can point to in that area, I can show you a decaying 70s era apartment complex just down the road. Lots of haves and have nots in this area, with the middle class slowly leaching further north and west. Its the same story in a lot of aging suburban areas across this nation.

This won't be a popular opinion on here, but for many of the same reasons, I have some reservations about the long term success of Chisholm Creek, at least if they plan on sticking to the current plan 100%.

The retail business in general in this nation is under a lot of stress. Even while shopping down here, I noticed stores seemed to not be as busy in years past. Mid level malls like QS are going the way of the dodo bird, thanks in large part to changing consumer tastes (i.e. people valuing experiences over stuff more), the rise of the internet, and the overall bifurcation of the consumer class into upper and lower economic tiers. Likewise, centers that fail to offer experiences or something to differentiate themselves will ultimately fail...if its just a place to shop for junk and nothing else, then people would rather sit in their pajamas at home and buy it off Amazon. So QS really needs to step its game up.

AnguisHerba
01-07-2016, 07:20 PM
It's too bad there is a Super Target nearby because increasingly they are going into malls and doing very well.

Malls and departments stores everywhere are struggling... Isn't Quail pretty well leased up otherwise though?

Target is going towards small format, urban stores. The Quail Springs location actually has the highest sales of all the OKC area stores.

AnguisHerba
01-07-2016, 07:21 PM
One thing I learned is that Macy's actually owns the property at Quail Springs Mall. So GGP will have to purchase the property from Macy's in order to gain control of it. This may take months. They had the same problem with the old Sears space.


I believe Macy's is selling everything to a liquidation company, so GGP might have an easier time acquiring the property back from them if they're wanting to.

tfvc.org
01-07-2016, 08:40 PM
When my friend from Spain came out to visit me a couple years ago Macys was on her must list. She was really excited to get some good high fashion clothes like she saw on their website. We were there for an hour or so and we ended up leaving with nothing in her hands and her very disapointed. She remarked that all they had was old lady clothes. I don't know if this location was stocked for the rich old people in Nichols Hills or what but it just seemed that what they had to sell in that store wasn't the same as what was online. She came to spend too, we ended up going to the outlet store three or four times.

bchris02
01-07-2016, 11:14 PM
The retail business in general in this nation is under a lot of stress. Even while shopping down here, I noticed stores seemed to not be as busy in years past. Mid level malls like QS are going the way of the dodo bird, thanks in large part to changing consumer tastes (i.e. people valuing experiences over stuff more), the rise of the internet, and the overall bifurcation of the consumer class into upper and lower economic tiers. Likewise, centers that fail to offer experiences or something to differentiate themselves will ultimately fail...if its just a place to shop for junk and nothing else, then people would rather sit in their pajamas at home and buy it off Amazon. So QS really needs to step its game up.

This is true, but I don't think its Internet shopping as much as it is that the middle class has shifted away from enclosed malls to the big box discounters. Clothes are something I would never shop for online because too many times I see something I think I would like but I try it on and end up not liking it. Middle-tier malls are failing everywhere. Tulsa's Promenade is in worse shape than Quail Springs. Macy's would have closed that store but from what I've heard, the mall owner offered a huge incentive for them to keep it.

Enclosed malls have to go upscale. Chisholm Creek WILL be a threat to Quail Springs Mall if GGP doesn't act now. In other cities, lifestyle centers are preferred to enclosed malls because they offer, as you mention, an experience. OKC, being a smaller market, might have issues supporting a large lifestyle center and a super-regional mall so close together. It's time for QSM to stop competing with what Crossroads once was and start competing with Penn Square, Chisholm Creek, and what Glimcher could potentially be if it ends up getting built.

Thomas Vu
01-07-2016, 11:16 PM
When my friend from Spain came out to visit me a couple years ago Macys was on her must list. She was really excited to get some good high fashion clothes like she saw on their website. We were there for an hour or so and we ended up leaving with nothing in her hands and her very disapointed. She remarked that all they had was old lady clothes. I don't know if this location was stocked for the rich old people in Nichols Hills or what but it just seemed that what they had to sell in that store wasn't the same as what was online. She came to spend too, we ended up going to the outlet store three or four times.

Nichols Hills, were you referring to the Penn Square location or Quail Springs? When I think Nichols Hills, I think Penn square. However, previous comments would lead somebody to think Quail has all the old person stuff.

tfvc.org
01-08-2016, 03:35 PM
Nichols Hills, were you referring to the Penn Square location or Quail Springs? When I think Nichols Hills, I think Penn square. However, previous comments would lead somebody to think Quail has all the old person stuff.

Ah, I didn't realise they had two locations in OKC. I was referring to Penn Square.

foodiefan
01-08-2016, 03:55 PM
this is happening very fast. . . heard the agent's closeout sale starts Monday.

zookeeper
01-08-2016, 07:11 PM
Penn Square Macy's is much nicer than the one closing at Quail Springs. Better clothes too. Maybe it was a bad day at Penn.

RedSoxFan
01-15-2016, 12:02 PM
The Macy' stores in Penn Square is nice, but doesn't match similar ones in Eastern malls like Providence Place (RI), Burlington Mall (MA), or Pheasant Lane (NH). I was disappointed when I went there. The one at Quail Springs Mall was a disaster IMHO.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 01:00 PM
I wonder if Academy Sporting Goods would be interested in leasing the Macy's space. They currently have locations on NW Expressway and Edmond, but don't have a Memorial Rd. location. I know they usually locate in strip center locations. But Dicks' Sporting Goods has several mall locations and they seem to do fairly well. Obviously Dick's wouldn't locate in the mall since they already have a location at Penn and Memorial, but Academy might be an option. Another option might be a Conn's. They also have locations on NW Expressway and Edmond, but not Memorial Road location. I know that Academy and Conns wouldn't be ideal like a Nordstrom or Saks, but I think we have to a little realistic that Quail isn't going to attract that kind of tenant. And having an Academy or Conns in there would be better than nothing.

Regardless, GGP will have to get creative with that space because I think they're going to have a hard time getting a single tenant in there. Maybe converting the space back into the mall corridor and leasing out to smaller tenants would be an option.

Filthy
01-15-2016, 01:10 PM
I wonder if Academy Sporting Goods would be interested in leasing the Macy's space. They currently have locations on NW Expressway and Edmond, but don't have a Memorial Rd. location.

Academy was already in Quail Springs mall, some time ago. I'm not sure why they left...but assuming that because of that....they wouldn't try to come back. But, who knows...

bchris02
01-15-2016, 01:12 PM
I wonder if Academy Sporting Goods would be interested in leasing the Macy's space. They currently have locations on NW Expressway and Edmond, but don't have a Memorial Rd. location. I know they usually locate in strip center locations. But Dicks' Sporting Goods has several mall locations and they seem to do fairly well. Obviously Dick's wouldn't locate in the mall since they already have a location at Penn and Memorial, but Academy might be an option. Another option might be a Conn's. They also have locations on NW Expressway and Edmond, but not Memorial Road location. I know that Academy and Conns wouldn't be ideal like a Nordstrom or Saks, but I think we have to a little realistic that Quail isn't going to attract that kind of tenant. And having an Academy or Conns in there would be better than nothing.

Regardless, GGP will have to get creative with that space because I think they're going to have a hard time getting a single tenant in there. Maybe converting the space back into the mall corridor and leasing out to smaller tenants would be an option.

Academy would be a step in the wrong direction if GGP wants to take the mall in a more upscale direction, which as discussed is necessary for its long-term viability. Tenants like that are usually a last resort for malls that are past their peak.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 01:33 PM
Academy would be a step in the wrong direction if GGP wants to take the mall in a more upscale direction, which as discussed is necessary for its long-term viability. Tenants like that are usually a last resort for malls that are past their peak.

I agree completely, but I'm also realistic with the population that mall management is trying to target, and I don't feel that they're willing to change that. I just don't think they can get an upscale department store like Nordstrom or Saks. If they're sticking with a department store, Belk is probably their only option. But, they may have to start thinking outside the box if they want to fill the space, because department stores aren't really expanding right now.

From what I've heard, mall management is considering extending the mall corridor into the anchor space, and then dividing the space up into smaller retailers. I personally feel this would be a mistake and they need to go with a larger anchor for that space.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 01:36 PM
Academy was already in Quail Springs mall, some time ago. I'm not sure why they left...but assuming that because of that....they wouldn't try to come back. But, who knows...

I don't think that Academy has had any mall locations. And I don't remember an Academy ever being located in the Memorial Rd. cooridor. Maybe I'm wrong?

Filthy
01-15-2016, 01:40 PM
I don't think that Academy has had any mall locations. And I don't remember an Academy ever being located in the Memorial Rd. cooridor. Maybe I'm wrong?


Academy was inside Quail Springs mall, for many years.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 01:40 PM
Academy was inside Quail Springs mall, for many years.

Where at in the mall? I grew up in that mall and I never remember an Academy being located there. Are you confusing it with Sears? They have 4 anchors aside from the theater, and the anchors for many years were JC Penney, Sears, Foleys (John A Brown), and Dillards.

Filthy
01-15-2016, 01:48 PM
Academy was upstairs across from the food court from about 1984 to about 1988? just guessing on exact dates really. (Where the H&M is now.) It was really one of the only sporting goods stores that I can remember in that area at the time. Except..it wasn't really sporting goods as we know it now. Not much clothes of any kind...it was more or less...guns, hunting supplies, bikes, and trampolines. This was before they went to a "big box store" model, and opened their first big box store here in 1994.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 01:53 PM
Academy was upstairs across from the food court from about 1984 to about 1988? just guessing on exact dates really. (Where the H&M is now.) It was really one of the only sporting goods stores that I can remember in that area at the time. Except..it wasn't really sporting goods as we know it now. Not much clothes of any kind...it was more or less...guns, hunting supplies, bikes, and trampolines. This was before they went to a "big box store" model, and opened their first big box store here in 1994.

Hmm. Hadn't realized that. I learn new things every day. I guess like you said it was before they went with the big box store concept. So it must've been a smaller store. Anyways, thanks for the info.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 02:02 PM
Quail Springs is really losing out on a lot of businesses that are locating in the surrounding strip malls. Both Cabellas and Dick's could've easily filled the Macy's space. I know that Dick's has mall locations across the country.

bchris02
01-15-2016, 02:13 PM
Quail Springs is really losing out on a lot of businesses that are locating in the surrounding strip malls. Both Cabellas and Dick's could've easily filled the Macy's space. I know that Dick's has mall locations across the country.

Therein is the problem with Quail Springs Mall. They are targeting the same customer base as the surrounding strip malls, and the strip malls are winning.

Patrick
01-15-2016, 02:24 PM
Therein is the problem with Quail Springs Mall. They are targeting the same customer base as the surrounding strip malls, and the strip malls are winning.

Yup. That's why malls that aren't going upscale are being left behind to deteriorate.

Swake
01-15-2016, 02:24 PM
Hmm. Hadn't realized that. I learn new things every day. I guess like you said it was before they went with the big box store concept. So it must've been a smaller store. Anyways, thanks for the info.

I think that was an Oshman's store, which are now known as Sports Authority.