View Full Version : Industry in Oklahoma



C_M_25
12-29-2015, 08:26 PM
This is a serious question because I simply just do not know.

Besides Oil and Natural Gas, what are Oklahoma's main providers of jobs? I know Tinker is one. We have the state government and the federal government. These jobs require tax money, so I'm not really interested in that. What do we have outside of energy? Can any of these other sources of income realistically fund our state government should the energy sector stay down for a long time? How screwed is Oklahoma if the Oil industry goes bankrupt?

Tundra
12-29-2015, 08:31 PM
Construction, is probably one of the largest industries in our state , when you consider all of the trades involved from concrete suppliers to carpenters to roofing contractors. But unfortunately it's tied directly to oil.

Plutonic Panda
12-29-2015, 08:36 PM
Meth Labs.

Plutonic Panda
12-29-2015, 08:36 PM
And those people who put the power lines back up after they are either torn down by a tornado or an ice storm.

C_M_25
12-29-2015, 08:39 PM
Construction

Construction is dependent on growth or other industrial activities. In other words, without growth, construction would not exist. I do not believe that we are going to take the chinese role and just build random cities with no population :)

Tundra
12-29-2015, 08:40 PM
Greater Oklahoma City Economic Development - Major Employers (http://www.greateroklahomacity.com/?src=directory&view=employers)

C_M_25
12-29-2015, 08:42 PM
Greater Oklahoma City Economic Development - Major Employers (http://www.greateroklahomacity.com/?src=directory&view=employers)

Thanks for that link. That explains a lot. It is a little scary how top-heavy we are here on government jobs. Hopefully if the O&G companies tank, they can be taken up by some of the other industries, but that is a huge amount of money that wouldn't be funding the government anymore.

Tundra
12-29-2015, 08:54 PM
Thanks for that link. That explains a lot. It is a little scary how top-heavy we are here on government jobs. Hopefully if the O&G companies tank, they can be taken up by some of the other industries, but that is a huge amount of money that wouldn't be funding the government anymore.

If the O$G tank, we are royally screwed, the only reason we absorbed 2008 was the O$G was still performing

Tundra
12-29-2015, 09:18 PM
http://www.growmetrotulsa.com/sites/default/files/page-attachments/2015%20Tulsa%20Largest%20Employers%20List_1.pdf

adaniel
12-29-2015, 10:05 PM
This is a serious question because I simply just do not know.

Besides Oil and Natural Gas, what are Oklahoma's main providers of jobs? I know Tinker is one. We have the state government and the federal government. These jobs require tax money, so I'm not really interested in that. What do we have outside of energy? Can any of these other sources of income realistically fund our state government should the energy sector stay down for a long time? How screwed is Oklahoma if the Oil industry goes bankrupt?

Don't understand why you would dismiss Tinker and other federal agencies in your observation...last time I checked those employees and their contractors pay taxes and are funding the budget just as much as everyone else. Anyway, to answer your question....

Aerospace-Largest Maintenance hub at AA in Tulsa, numerous firms in both cities
Logistics-3 Interstates and major rail hub in OKC, Tulsa has Port of Catoosa
Agriculture and Food Processing-not as important but still has to be done
General Manufacturing-quite a bit goes on in the NE part of the state
Tourism-notice all of the TX license plates next time you are at Beavers Bend, Turner Falls, etc.

Last time I checked OKs unemployment rate was just over 4%, about the same as TX and considerably lower than the 6%+ in other energy states like Alaska, Louisiana, and New Mexico. So Oklahoma has not fallen apart.

I also know that last fiscal year Oklahoma came in already $300 million short even though oil was over $100, and had a flat budget the year before. So perhaps a better question would be why is their such a disconnect between the budget and the general economy, and where is the leadership in all of this.

Questor
12-29-2015, 11:17 PM
Something that is less apparent from the data in that link is that there are so many O&G companies here that are small or medium sized that never make the big list. The volume of them, the trucking and transportation companies that support them, and on and on, still makes up a very large percentage of our economy.

I know many small business owners who are noticing a huge drop in their business. When they see their now-infrequent customers again, they get to talking and they always end up being employed by the O&G industry (or at least were). Energy sector is still the main game in town.

bombermwc
12-31-2015, 08:20 AM
I also know that last fiscal year Oklahoma came in already $300 million short even though oil was over $100, and had a flat budget the year before. So perhaps a better question would be why is their such a disconnect between the budget and the general economy, and where is the leadership in all of this.

Because no one has the balls to say "you know what, in order to pay for things, we have to collect taxes. And that's been too low".

Bellaboo
01-25-2016, 12:11 PM
How about this incentive ? And it's not O&G

State pays millions more in wind-energy incentives than originally projected - Norman Transcript: News (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/state-pays-millions-more-in-wind-energy-incentives-than-originally/article_c55310dd-52d3-5281-b2a3-58099055ca6d.html)

gopokes88
01-25-2016, 12:15 PM
How about this incentive ? And it's not O&G

State pays millions more in wind-energy incentives than originally projected - Norman Transcript: News (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/state-pays-millions-more-in-wind-energy-incentives-than-originally/article_c55310dd-52d3-5281-b2a3-58099055ca6d.html)

That's the real culprit, we incentivize everything for an unlimited amount of time. We give away over $1 billion in incentives yearly.

gopokes88
01-25-2016, 12:16 PM
This gives a good birds eye view.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Oklahoma

This chart is also pretty awesome. We're heavier on mining (oil) and lighter on finance compared to the us as a whole.

Industry OK GDP value ($ billions) Sector % of OK GDP Sector % of US GDP
Agriculture 2.8 2% 1%
Mining 27.2 15% 3%
Utilities 5.9 3% 2%
Construction 7.3 4% 4%
Manufacturing 22.5 10% 12%
Trade 21.2 12% 12%
Transportation 7.1 4% 3%
Information 4 2% 5%
Finance 27.4 14% 20%
Professional 15 8% 12%
EducationHealth 14.2 7% 8%
Entertainment 6.6 3% 4%
Other Services 3.8 2% 2%
Government 27.7 15% 12%
Total 202.5 100% 100%

First column is OK GDP in billions, second is the % that sector is of the total ok gdp, third is the us nationally as a % of gdp. The biggest difference is ok is heavy on mining and light on finance.

Bunty
01-25-2016, 12:53 PM
That's the real culprit, we incentivize everything for an unlimited amount of time. We give away over $1 billion in incentives yearly.
I would rather do away with $600,000,000 of those incentives in order to better fund education, rather than raise the state sale tax by a penny to do it.

gopokes88
01-25-2016, 01:03 PM
I would rather do away with $600,000,000 of those incentives in order to better fund education, rather than raise the state sale tax by a penny to do it.

Oklahoma doesn't have incentives, we have highly paid lobbyists convincing legislators to give away tax revenue in exchange for campaign cash. If your company can afford a lobbyist your company is probably getting a tax break, despite not doing much.

Incentives are fine when done correctly, The Cabela's in Chisholm Creek is a perfect example. It had a set dollar and time amount. When it expires its gone. The purpose was to help jump-start CC's development. Perfectly reasonable. The state just renews incentives year after year after year after year.

If we eliminated all incentives we would have a $400,000,000 hole after a 75% collapse in oil prices, the surpluses from previous years would be so massive not a penny would need to be cut as Oklahoma could dip into it's emergency fund.

Tax rates are fine in the state. The giveaways are the problem,

Nick
01-25-2016, 06:00 PM
The tax rates are fine because you think so or is there some evidence they're fine?

I agree with you regarding incentives, but disagree that Cabelas was good use of them. cabelas was an example of the kind of incentive that needs to be reduced or cut.

gopokes88
01-25-2016, 08:58 PM
The tax rates are fine because you think so or is there some evidence they're fine?

I agree with you regarding incentives, but disagree that Cabelas was good use of them. cabelas was an example of the kind of incentive that needs to be reduced or cut.

We had 75% drop in oil prices, with no incentives the hole would only be about 400,000,000. Surpluses would have been $600,000,000 larger in boom years and they could have adequately funded the emergency fund.

The rates are fine. The fact not everyone has to pay them because they can lobby their way into lower rates is the problem.

Brett
01-27-2016, 06:00 AM
Don't forget Wal-Mart. I imagine it is the largest, non-government employer in the state.

Just the facts
01-27-2016, 10:38 AM
Don't forget Wal-Mart. I imagine it is the largest, non-government employer in the state.

Not sure about now, but as recently as few years ago Walmart was the largest employer in 36 states.

Swake
01-27-2016, 10:44 AM
Not sure about now, but as recently as few years ago Walmart was the largest employer in 36 states.

Wal-Mart is the largest private employer in the United States and the entire World.

Millions on employees mostly on welfare wages.

jerrywall
01-27-2016, 12:26 PM
Yup. Everyone loves those low prices, regardless of the cost. Every time Wal-Mart and wages comes up, I think of the Molasses and Rum song from 1776.

Swake
01-27-2016, 01:10 PM
Yup. Everyone loves those low prices, regardless of the cost. Every time Wal-Mart and wages comes up, I think of the Molasses and Rum song from 1776.

This is off topic, but needs to be said.

On average each Wal-Mart employee costs Americans $4,415 a year in public assistance. Overall Walmart costs taxpayers $6.5 billion a year. Combined low wage jobs at Target, Walmart and the like cost this country $153 billion every year. Thatís $153 billion going to these companies bottom lines straight from the taxpayer. The federal budget deficit in 2015 was $439 billion, get these companies to pay a living wage and you close the federal budget deficit by 35%.

US budget deficit falls to 8-year low in 2015 (http://news.yahoo.com/us-budget-deficit-falls-8-low-2015-194021330.html)
Forbes Welcome (http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#28a266d77cd8)

OU Adonis
01-27-2016, 02:16 PM
This is off topic, but needs to be said.

On average each Wal-Mart employee costs Americans $4,415 a year in public assistance. Overall Walmart costs taxpayers $6.5 billion a year. Combined low wage jobs at Target, Walmart and the like cost this country $153 billion every year. Thatís $153 billion going to these companies bottom lines straight from the taxpayer. The federal budget deficit in 2015 was $439 billion, get these companies to pay a living wage and you close the federal budget deficit by 35%.

US budget deficit falls to 8-year low in 2015 (http://news.yahoo.com/us-budget-deficit-falls-8-low-2015-194021330.html)
Forbes Welcome (http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#28a266d77cd8)

How about people not make Wal-Mart a career destination job?

OU Adonis
01-27-2016, 02:21 PM
Because no one has the balls to say "you know what, in order to pay for things, we have to collect taxes. And that's been too low".

Considering the state tax burden is higher than the national average I would say we are paying our fair share of state taxes.

*Edited* we are 1% less than the national average. So I guess we are pretty much in the middle.

OKCinsomniac
01-27-2016, 02:26 PM
Considering the state tax burden is higher than the national average I would say we are paying our fair share of state taxes.

*Edited* we are 1% less than the national average. So I guess we are pretty much in the middle.

When adjusted for cost of living, we're only 13th:
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416/

Swake
01-27-2016, 03:17 PM
Considering the state tax burden is higher than the national average I would say we are paying our fair share of state taxes.

*Edited* we are 1% less than the national average. So I guess we are pretty much in the middle.

10th lowest in overall personal tax burden rate. 7th lowest in corporate taxes.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-and-local-tax-burdens-1977-2012

jerrywall
01-27-2016, 03:19 PM
How about people not make Wal-Mart a career destination job?

It should be pointed out though that last April Walmart shifted their minimum pay up to $9 an hour, and Feb 1 it moves to $10 an hour. The average hourly pay at Wal-Mart is $13 an hour (before the new increase) for full time workers. Not bad for entry level work.

Wal-Mart used to pay better in comparison to the minimum wage (my mother worked there in the 80's). However, it should be noted it was much tougher to get a job there, and then working up to Cashier was very competitive, and paid well. There are quite a few folks employed at Wal-Mart now that wouldn't have been hireable in the 80's. From a career path standpoint, Wal-Mart, McDonald's, etc, can make decent paths. But you have to, you know, stay in one job for an extended time, have good availability, and have the willingness/ability to train, work hard, and move up into management. When my family's grocery and gas stores went out of business in the 80s, my father went to work hourly for McDonald's, and my mother at Wal-Mart. That turned into a 30 year career for my father, and the pay and benefits was outstanding. Especially for a non-college grad starting at entry level.

gopokes88
01-27-2016, 03:22 PM
How about people not make Wal-Mart a career destination job?

How dare you be so insensitive to ask people not to make a career out of a low wage and low skill job!

Swake
01-27-2016, 03:24 PM
How about people not make Wal-Mart a career destination job?

That is completely irrelevant. It makes no difference if an individual works there one day or ten years, the fact is these companies are still costing U.S. taxpayers $153 billion a year in taxes spent on welfare for their employees.

Walmart made $16.99 billion last year, $6.5 billion of that came from taxpayer pockets in the form of welfare for underpaid employees with insufficient benefits. Funny, but I don't recall a thank you card from the Walton family.

Swake
01-27-2016, 03:38 PM
It should be pointed out though that last April Walmart shifted their minimum pay up to $9 an hour, and Feb 1 it moves to $10 an hour. The average hourly pay at Wal-Mart is $13 an hour (before the new increase) for full time workers. Not bad for entry level work.


Walmart has 500,000 employees earning less than $9 and more than 600,000 making less than $10. The average full time Walmart employee works 34 hours a week making that $9 an hour work out to $15,912 a year. That's less than the poverty level for a family of two. At $10 you get to $17,680 which is under the poverty level for a family of three.

Walmart projects that the wage increase to $10 an hour will increase costs by less than $1.5 billion on revenue of $485 billion so covering that cost by increasing prices would mean a .3% increase in prices. A $10 bag of dog food will now cost $10.03.

Walmart needs to double the increase and get hundreds of thousands of employees off welfare. I'm willing to pay $10.06 for dog food for that to happen.

jerrywall
01-27-2016, 03:42 PM
That is completely irrelevant. It makes no difference if an individual works there one day or ten years, the fact is these companies are still costing U.S. taxpayers $153 billion a year in taxes spent on welfare for their employees.

Walmart made $16.99 billion last year, $6.5 billion of that came from taxpayer pockets in the form of welfare for underpaid employees with insufficient benefits. Funny, but I don't recall a thank you card from the Walton family.

Welfare isn't paid to companies. It's to bridge the gap between a worker's product of labor value and cost of living. I don't believe the burden should be on the employer to ensure that every worker must not need assistance. If I own a retail store and I need part time help, and someone takes that job as their only income, am I responsible to ensure that person needs no government assistance (and if not, then why is the standard different for wal-mart?) Why don't we direct this same anger towards those who could work two jobs? When I bought my first house I was working at Taco Mayo full time, and part time at McDonald's. I also picked up shifts doing night inventory at grocery stores. Maybe I should get a kickback for all the savings I passed on to my fellow taxpayers? I have sold blood, sat through waaay too many boring feedback panels, participated in mock juries (talk about boring!), planted trees, delivered newspapers, and more over the years to supplement my income, until I hit a point in my professional life where I was making sufficient income from my primary job.

jerrywall
01-27-2016, 03:43 PM
Walmart has 500,000 employees earning less than $9 and more than 600,000 making less than $10.

I believe that information is outdated and from before the $9 floor they implemented last April.

jerrywall
01-27-2016, 03:44 PM
I'm willing to pay $10.06 for dog food for that to happen.

Or you could not shop at Walmart and support local businesses and employers?

Swake
01-27-2016, 03:48 PM
Or you could not shop at Walmart and support local businesses and employers?

I actually do not shop at Walmart. I shop at Reasor's and Target if I have too.

I get higher quality items in a better shopping environment with better service. And I know I am paying a bit more too.

jerrywall
01-27-2016, 03:57 PM
I actually do not shop at Walmart. I shop at Reasor's and Target if I have too.

I get higher quality items in a better shopping environment with better service. And I know I am paying a bit more too.

I think this is the biggest way to effect change. It took me years to ween my wife off of shopping at Wal-Mart. There are enough options that I've not set foot in a Wal-Mart in quite a while. If we ever get a Costco in OKC I'll shop there, but for the most part I try to limit myself to locally owned retailers.