By the way, my comment wasn't so much that my generation is "better"; it is that we tend to value different things, which has been well documented in the media, and even in this thread.

The current generation reportedly can't find joy and fulfillment in a job that doesn't have meaning (whatever that is varies from person to person), and as openly discussed upthread tend to feel that "acting" happy when working in an unfulfilling role is inauthentic and unnecessary.

I think previous generations often found joy in the simplicity of performing a task well, providing for family, etc.. Also, the fact that politeness in general is waning and society has coarsened is undeniable regardless of the generational fallacy you mention.

Even if younger generations are more accepting of some of the phrasing, a good percentage (and maybe even a majority) don't like being addressed in the ways we are discussing and therefore it's not a matter of personal preference, it's respect for your customers.

And I want to once again point out that these exchanges are much more common in OKC so this isn't just a generational thing. I think it has to do with so many in the local area who are performing these jobs without the proper experience, training and management.

I also think the general friendliness of people here tends to embolden servers to be overly chummy and therefore less professional.

I honestly can't remember being called 'boss' or 'chief' or anything other than sir in my entire 25 years in California, yet it's happened to me multiple times here in just 3 weeks.

By the way, my comment wasn't so much that my generation is "better"; it is that we tend to value different things, which has been well documented in the media, and even in this thread.

The current generation reportedly can't find joy and fulfillment in a job that doesn't have meaning (whatever that is varies from person to person), and as openly discussed upthread tend to feel that "acting" happy when working in an unfulfilling role is inauthentic and unnecessary.

I think previous generations often found joy in the simplicity of performing a task well, providing for family, etc.. The fact that politeness in general is waning and society has coarseness is undeniable regardless of the generational fallacy you mention.

One guy stating he doesn't think people can't be happy at work in a customer service role does not make a scientific study. I am also a millennial and and stayed in a customer service focused industry for a decade because I enjoyed it so much and wanted to advance be successful in the role. If there is a decline in the satisfaction of a job well done, it might be due to the falling buying power of the wages earned in these jobs vs. the rising costs of living and getting an education so they can find a new line of work they enjoy. But that's getting into another can of beans.

As far as general politeness, I don't disagree with anything you've said in this thread over what's polite or not. For me, I just don't particularly care if a waiter or other customer service employee is the image of politeness or not so long as I get my food and such in a timely manner without issue. That's what I went there for and that's what I'm paying for. But i also understand that its a subjective matter and different people want different things. I think that's really the crux of this generational difference. "Manners" and "politeness" are societal constructs. These can, have, and will change. There is nothing inherently wrong about this other than the difficulty of coming to grips with different standards.

^^^^^^^
Agree with Pete that it's mostly a matter of (a lack of) traIning and (due to high demand and relatively low unemployment) a large number in the service industry who aren't really trained pros so much as bodies thrown at a labor problem.

I'd also point out that the term Millennial was first used in this thread by...Millennials.

I'd also point out that the term Millennial was first used in this thread by...Millennials.


Whatever point you're trying to make here, I want to also point out that the term "Millennial" was first used in this thread by a Millennial. I only brought up the term once you did in this post:


And yet we have people in this thread openly identifying as Millennials and saying that they don't think basic politeness isn't important as long as the food gets there on time. How do you account for this?

Again, there had only been one person who had openly identified as a Millennial at this point.

...As far as general politeness, I don't disagree with anything you've said in this thread over what's polite or not. For me, I just don't particularly care if a waiter or other customer service employee is the image of politeness or not so long as I get my food and such in a timely manner without issue. That's what I went there for and that's what I'm paying for. But i also understand that its a subjective matter and different people want different things...

But see, there are now two scenarios (assuming that service is efficient and accurate/adequate outside of manners):


A server can be efficient yet disinterested and even borderline impolite and you're still happy, which is great, and remarkably tolerant on your behalf. But a significant percentage of his/her customers are left irritated and mildly unhappy.

Or


The server genuinely cares about the customer experience and beyond just slinging hash or drinks actually works at being polite (by societal standards) and even gracious. This doesn't mean fake, it doesn't have to mean overly friendly. Just gracious and respectful. Now BOTH customer groups are happy. It's a win for everyone, including the server and his/her employer.

See, the ultimate goal of a PROFESSIONAL server SHOULD be NOT their own satisfaction but instead the satisfaction of as many of their customers as is humanly possible.

That's where the disconnect is here. Who cares if the server or a portion of his/her customers are comfortable with "chief" or "no problem"? What difference does that make if the rest of their clientele is made unhappy?

So much focus here on what makes the SERVER happy. That's so wrong-headed and shows an incredible sense of entitlement. There is a reason why it's called the SERVICE industry. A server's job is to attend to the needs and requirements of the customer, not the other way around.

There's a couple of different conversation threads going on here and several I haven't taken part in or disagree with anything you've said, necessarily. I don't know if you are just lumping everyone into "sides" and assuming anyone who has spoken to agrees with each other, or if you aren't paying that much attention to who has said what. Anyway...


A server can be efficient yet disinterested and even borderline impolite and you're still happy, which is great, and remarkably tolerant on your behalf. but a significant percentage of his/her customers are left irritated and mildly unhappy.

Depending on how "impolite" we're going I may begin to take offense. But, generally, yes, I'm pretty tolerant so long as my food is right and everything comes quick. I've just explained my own preferences in this manner. I am not advocating that everyone must agree with me or that servers should be allowed to be rude.


The server genuinely cares about the customer experience and beyond just slinging hash or drinks actually works at being polite (by societal standards) and even gracious. This doesn't mean fake, it doesn't have to mean overly friendly. Just gracious and respectful. Now BOTH customer groups are happy. It's a win for everyone, including the server and his/her employer.

Sure.


See, that's where the disconnect is here. Who cares if the server or a portion of his/her customers are comfortable with "chief" or "no problem"? What difference does that make if the rest of their clientele is made unhappy? So much focus here on what makes the SERVER happy. That's so wrong-headed and shows an incredible sense of entitlement. There is a reason why it's called the SERVICE industry. You job is to attend to the needs and requirements of the customer, not the other way around.

I've never advocated otherwise. In this thread on this matter, I've only stated my personal preferences when I go to a restaurant. That was not intended to imply that my personal preferences are or should be universal. I only took issue when you made it a generational issue. I find arguments such as to be generally simplistic and tired - lumping everyone born in a certain timeframe in one group and assuming they all must act and think the same, and of course its all for the worse. Its a pet peeve of mine as manners in the service industry seems to be yours.

You're reading those responses as if they were singling you out or lumping you in with others. When I say wrongheaded and entitled I'm referring to previous posts in the thread suggesting that a server shouldn't have to go out of their way to be polite if they didn't feel like it. I don't believe you ever suggested anything like that.

And manners in the service industry are important to me because I spent many of my formative years as a server, and because for the past thirteen years have made a career of managing people in the business.

I've daily been forced to fight battles over really dumb things things like "I don't want to wear a uniform because it stifles my individuality" and "greeting customers isn't my job" or "I don't feel like working today so I shouldn't have to smile at people".

Like I tell my people, the service industry isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with you if you aren't cut out for it. But if you are going to be here every day and expect to receive compensation for doing so, you are going to show respect for the customers who are funding our jobs, you are going to leave your bad day (everyone has them) at the door before clocking in, and you are going to be gracious and helpful to everyone you come into contact with, customer, co-worker or other.

You're reading those responses as if they were singling you out or lumping you in with others. When I say wrongheaded and entitled I'm referring to previous posts in the thread suggesting that a server shouldn't have to go out of their way to be polite if they didn't feel like it. I don't believe you ever suggested anything like that.

You quoted my post, so I must have misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.


"greeting customers isn't my job"

I had someone walk out yesterday for this exact reason. Good riddance.

You quoted my post, so I must have misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification...

In fairness I could have made it more clear in that post (#66). The first part of the post was primarily in response to you but also took into account the pro-"no problem" posters.

The second part of it (essentially begins with "that's where the disconnect" was entirely directed at those other comments; the ones along the lines of "I shouldn't have to be polite/friendly or watch what I say if I don't feel like it." And yes, I know that is a bit of an exaggeration, yet fairly descriptive of the attitude.

If you have time, go back and read my post and instead of me saying "that's where the disconnect is here", pretend I said "that's where the disconnect is in this thread."

My incomplete communication in that post is, by the way, a perfect example of how words DO in fact matter, which I guess is the point I'm trying to make here.

And I'll chime in with the most basic of reasons for servers to be polite and professional to their customers: More tip money.

My husband and I tip very generously because we know it's hard work doing what they're doing. We make a special point to do so in places where the servers are working their butts off and may not be getting tipped as well as they should, due to the type of restaurant (such as a buffet, or a diner). If the server is nice, and is trying hard--even if they aren't perfect--then they can expect to see a $10 tip on a measly $16-$18 tab. Because they tried.

Today we (made a big mistake and) went to Golden Corral because our power was out and I was craving a breakfast buffet. The server was so awful that she didn't even bring us our coffee until we were halfway through our (fairly long) meal. Then, she didn't bring me any half and half for another five minutes after that. She never once checked on us, even though she walked by multiple times. I got up myself to refill my water. My husband had to flag her down to ask for more coffee. Her attitude was deadpan, even though we were both very nice to her throughout the meal. If she had made even a single attempt to be pleasant or act like it wasn't an imposition when we politely asked for coffee, then she would've made a whole lot more. As it stands, we still gave her 20%, because we're nice people, but she could've had a much better return had she just *tried*. I know it's hard to work at a place like that, but damn.

They have waiters at Golden Corral?

Most buffets have table staff, for drinks and refills, answer questions, if any, etc.

See, the ultimate goal of a PROFESSIONAL server SHOULD be NOT their own satisfaction but instead the satisfaction of as many of their customers as is humanly possible.Seems to me that the real root problem is that so many -- perhaps even a majority -- of those working as servers do not even consider themselves to be professional, and so behave in an unprofessional manner.

My own pet peeve is those with the attitude that I am doing them a great favor by dealing with them. Fortunately, this group seems to be shrinking in size. It's been months since I've encountered a bored server or salesperson who's just condescending to deal with me. Of course, that might be because I tend not to return to businesses where that happens!

At the end of the day, only BASIC politeness and courtesy is required. "Hi, welcome to _______" "hello, how may I help you?" "do you have any questions about the menu?" "how is your meal?" "can I get you anything else?" "please" "thank you" "have a nice day" "thanks for visiting us today".

Believe it or not, NONE of these things require you to compromise your "authenticity", even if you're having a bad day. If you're having a GOOD day, you might even attempt a smile. I know, sounds crazy, right? Actually, even if you're having a BAD day, studies show that the simple act of MAKING yourself smile can improve your mood (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smile-it-could-make-you-happier/). Maybe try it sometime.

And if you REALLY want to suck up (by today's standards) throw in an occasional "sir" or "ma'am". I know they sound ridiculously old-fashioned, but whatever. Just pretend you're being ironic. Whatever you do though, drop "chief", "boss", "bro", "dude", and even "man". A significant number of your customers consider those terms to be too familiar, and you'll make these people uncomfortable, or worse, offended. Why would you ever want to do that to someone who (you hope) is tipping you?

The same with sitting down with your customers, unless they are personal friends, and unless your boss is OK with it. Even then, do it for only a short time if you are working and other customers can see you. Hang out with your friends when you're not on the clock.

Again, none of these things requires you to lie, compromise your integrity, turn in your hipster card, or whatever. None of them are anywhere even CLOSE to being "snooty". They mostly involve just basic, simple courtesy to another human being. If you disagree, I honestly question the way you were raised.

This is a pretty typical generational fallacy. Every generation thinks that their generation was better than the next generation. Your parents thought the same about your generation and your grandparents thought the same about your parents. Here's a nice article on the phenomenon. (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/literally-psyched/when-i-was-your-age-or-what-is-it-with-kids-these-days/)
Etiquette and social skills are never generational, but more about having a little class ( notice I didn't say having money). Someone above thought propriety means snooty. That is just sad. Knowing and acting in a polite fashion should be a skill that people aspire to have regardless of age, social stature, etc. I know plenty of poor who have excellent manners. I know plenty of older persons who are cads.

By the way, being truly polite is just good business for a server, especially one that wishes to make the restaurant business their profession. Learning how best to be of service to a customer in the food (or any business) is the best route to success. Alienating customers by being, lazy, rude or careless is the best way to stay a minimum wage worker.

Had what I would consider to be the WORST server today at the TGI Friday's on NW Expy. We had a table for 4 but found out the 4th person wasn't going to make it so we told the server that when he came to take our drink order. He did not acknowledge it but we let it go. He came back with our drinks and we repeated that there would only be 3 but he took off before we could finish the sentence. We finally got him to come back to take our appetizer and entree order. He still thought we were waiting on a 4th person even though we had TWICE told him this was not so. We waited quite awhile (nearly 20 minutes), then our entrees were brought out. The manager was there so we asked about our appetizers. She was not aware of any appetizer order. We told her we no longer need them since our main meal was already there.

The server never once came back and asked us anything about how the food was or had any other interaction with us. btw they were NOT busy and had plenty of staff there to handle the customers. We had to flag down the manager to get some extra dressing for our lettuce wedge. We finished our meals and placed the cutlery and used napkins accordingly to demonstrate we were done. However, since he never bothered to check on us, we had to gesture to get someone's attention to get the check. When he cam by, we told him we needed a small To-Go box and the check as we did not want any dessert. He acted like he never heard us and asked us if we needed a to-go box and whether we wanted dessert.

To make a long story short, poor service, a server who appeared to not be listening to anything we said, we had to get up and go the the server station to get any service, and the ticket was wrong to boot. Won't be going back there any time soon.

TGI Friday's is having pretty big trouble nationwide and I suspect that makes it even harder for them to recruit good managers and servers -- and retain them.

They've closed lots of locations.

I'd rather have an over-the-top scripted line then someone saying 'no problem' when you thank them for something.

This is another huge pet peeve. 'No problem' is not an acceptable response to someone who is paying money (and thus your salary) at the establishment at which you are employed.

'Thank you very much' should be the minimum reply and it's surprisingly rare.

There is a waiter at Mama Roja's who says no problem for everything. He was a good waiter, I tipped well, but for everything, it was "no problem." Ordering waters, our food, asking for the check and telling him thanks. We probably "no problem" 20 times. At the end of the meal, I said to my wife, "why do I feel like there is a problem?"

Etiquette and social skills are never generational, but more about having a little class ( notice I didn't say having money). Someone above thought propriety means snooty. That is just sad. Knowing and acting in a polite fashion should be a skill that people aspire to have regardless of age, social stature, etc. I know plenty of poor who have excellent manners. I know plenty of older persons who are cads.

By the way, being truly polite is just good business for a server, especially one that wishes to make the restaurant business their profession. Learning how best to be of service to a customer in the food (or any business) is the best route to success. Alienating customers by being, lazy, rude or careless is the best way to stay a minimum wage worker.

Being polite is not generational, but what that means can and has changed. I think there are things that each of us do or don't do that would be considered rude if you go back one or two generations, but is acceptable today.

This is especially true considering the rapid changes in the way we communicate with each other over the last few generations.

Had what I would consider to be the WORST server today at the TGI Friday's on NW Expy. We had a table for 4 but found out the 4th person wasn't going to make it so we told the server that when he came to take our drink order. He did not acknowledge it but we let it go. He came back with our drinks and we repeated that there would only be 3 but he took off before we could finish the sentence. We finally got him to come back to take our appetizer and entree order. He still thought we were waiting on a 4th person even though we had TWICE told him this was not so. We waited quite awhile (nearly 20 minutes), then our entrees were brought out. The manager was there so we asked about our appetizers. She was not aware of any appetizer order. We told her we no longer need them since our main meal was already there.

The server never once came back and asked us anything about how the food was or had any other interaction with us. btw they were NOT busy and had plenty of staff there to handle the customers. We had to flag down the manager to get some extra dressing for our lettuce wedge. We finished our meals and placed the cutlery and used napkins accordingly to demonstrate we were done. However, since he never bothered to check on us, we had to gesture to get someone's attention to get the check. When he cam by, we told him we needed a small To-Go box and the check as we did not want any dessert. He acted like he never heard us and asked us if we needed a to-go box and whether we wanted dessert.

To make a long story short, poor service, a server who appeared to not be listening to anything we said, we had to get up and go the the server station to get any service, and the ticket was wrong to boot. Won't be going back there any time soon.

I eat that location occasionally and have always had great service there. Sorry you had that experience.

I'm apparently in the minority on this. Not too unusual. It doesn't bother me even a little bit to be called any of the things mentioned except sir. If you call me sir I will very politely and gently tell you I'm not a sir, I'm just a guy. I don't like being called anything that implies even a little bit that I might be older, wiser or in any way higher than the person talking to me. I am and want to be an equal. If only for the duration of dinner or whatever I want to be as friends. For me that's part of the relaxation of going out.

^^^^^^
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You are inviting someone to be less formal with you, which is your prerogative. Someone CHOOSING to treat you with less respect - without your permission - is overstepping the customer boundary.

And by the way, I'm 48 and I routinely call people half my age "sir". It has nothing to do with age, wisdom or social standing. It is merely an acknowledgement that you are a customer, who can choose to take your business anywhere but thankfully brought it to my place of business.

If you correct me and ask me to instead call you by your first name I'm happy to do so, because at the moment my job is to make you as happy and as comfortable as I reasonably can.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is completely turned off by informal service. I know a lot of people enjoy when waiters try to be buddies with them. I absolutely hate it. The worst is what Pete mentioned, when they call you boss or chief or something stupid like that. It actually makes me want to leave less of a tip.

I'm apparently in the minority on this. Not too unusual. It doesn't bother me even a little bit to be called any of the things mentioned except sir. If you call me sir I will very politely and gently tell you I'm not a sir, I'm just a guy. I don't like being called anything that implies even a little bit that I might be older, wiser or in any way higher than the person talking to me. I am and want to be an equal. If only for the duration of dinner or whatever I want to be as friends. For me that's part of the relaxation of going out.

Same here. I don't think we are really in the minority given that, if a lot of waiters are using it, I don't think a lot of people have a problem with it. Folks, OKC is a VERY casual and laid back place, as is most of this part of the country. Even here in Dallas, I have been referred to as chief, boss, etc. I also think as a whole, the dining scene here (and OKC in general) skew somewhat young. Terms of endearment do indeed change with age and location, so I think that getting hung up on semantics and such is a bit petty. We are only a generation removed from "madam" being acceptable; you call that someone now, you might as well call them a prostitute LOL.

Are you being treated in a respectful fashion? Is your food and drink being delivered timely? That's what I would be worried about, TBH.

And sir and ma'am are not always considered respectful amongst certain groups. Speaking of age, I work with the public on a semi-regular basis. When talking to people on the east coast, I have to refrain from using sir and ma'am. Out there, those terms are considered borderline condescending, especially coming from a younger person towards an older person. Obviously OKC is not the east coast, but it's not really the south, either.

If a server addresses customers by "chief" or "boss", the customer should be empowered to summon the manager and terminate the server from serving said customer.

Not sure if some of these things are generational, the way I was raised, or just my habits, but I don't mind most of the things that were brought up on the first page. I find it funny and even endearing when someone addresses me our table uniquely (e.g., boss, brother). I guess I get bored by standard politeness and I'd rather people be interesting. I also have no problem with "no problem." It's interesting how people perceive things differently. My focus is almost completely on whether I think a server is authentic, attentive, and thorough, which I think they can be when they reply, "No problem, boss." ;)

And yet we have people in this thread openly identifying as Millennials and saying that they don't think basic politeness isn't important as long as the food gets there on time. How do you account for this?

I think we define politeness differently. Or may it's not politeness that millenials and others want (I am hesitant to even define this across generational lines), but authenticity. Again, Chick-fil-a makes their servers say "my pleasure," which is probably very polite, but also unnecessary for me personally. I totally agree that it if many customers desire the type of politness which you and others have stated that it is wise for servers to be "polite." I just don't think it's an ethical knock on younger generations that people say "no problem."

Was watching the OU game here in San Diego at a very popular sports bar/microbrewery named Oggi's. The waiter called my friend and me "boss" when taking the order. I asked my friend, who is in his late 40s, if that bothered him, and he said it didn't even register with him. The waiter was young, male, and very laid back, but he did a good job and even joked with us on the order. He also changed the channel on two of the tvs to let us watch OU from both of our seats even though I am pretty sure we were the only two people watching that game since Stanford was on.

Tone and energy is my gauge on politeness. A cold and sterile "thank you for your business" to me is much worse than a warm and quick "thanks!" or "no problem!". And sticking with that theme, a cold and sterile "no problem" is worse than a warm "thanks!".

Corporate canned responses remind me so much of the movie Idiocracy. "Welcome to Costco, I love you."

I don't think a "no problem" is any sign of disrespect, unless it has a poor tone. And Rover/Urbanized/Pete, if you read my first several posts you will see where I mention "no problem" is unacceptable when it comes to acknowledging the entire transaction, and I find only appropriate when fulfilling small requests, such as extra sides. The entire transaction should always be thanked. The small side work during the experience can be expressed in other ways, depending on the type of restaurant you are dining at. If I were at an upscale restaurant, on an important date, I would expect to get a very formal experience. If I'm chewing through a burger at S&B or enjoying a beer at a bar -- a "no problem" is not going to ruin my day or subtract from the experience.

Was watching the OU game here in San Diego at a very popular sports bar/microbrewery named Oggi's. The waiter called my friend and me "boss" when taking the order. I asked my friend, who is in his late 40s, if that bothered him, and he said it didn't even register with him. The waiter was young, male, and very laid back, but he did a good job and even joked with us on the order. He also changed the channel on two of the tvs to let us watch OU from both of our seats even though I am pretty sure we were the only two people watching that game since Stanford was on.

I brought up this conversation at work last night. My supervisor (55) and a few people ranging from (22-45) pretty much all agreed it doesn't matter as long as the actual service is good. And most said they didn't mind the occasional "no problem" if said in the correct way at the right time.

I asked my lunch partner from work who is around 56 and worked as a waiter in her younger days. She doesn't like "no problem", and much prefers a simple "you are welcome". She has no problem with "boss" or "chief" if in a casual restaurant. Since I tend to say "no problem" or "no problemo" myself, I guess I never noticed it from a service person.

I think we define politeness differently. Or may it's not politeness that millenials and others want (I am hesitant to even define this across generational lines), but authenticity. Again, Chick-fil-a makes their servers say "my pleasure," which is probably very polite, but also unnecessary for me personally. I totally agree that it if many customers desire the type of politness which you and others have stated that it is wise for servers to be "polite." I just don't think it's an ethical knock on younger generations that people say "no problem."

Again, people are missing the point. I have NEVER suggested anything inauthentic. I have NEVER defended "my pleasure," which can teeter on dishonesty if it truly was NOT your pleasure. If saying "my pleasure" works for you, it's certainly not going to offend anyone, but I agree completely that forcing someone to say it is dumb.

What I AM saying is that "please" is basic. So is "thank you." And "thank you" pretty much REQUIRES "you're welcome". And, by the way, as a customer I ALSO say "please" when asking for something, and "thank you" when receiving it. I say "please" and "thank you" and you're welcome to people who are NOT my customers, too. Including my employees. These things are the most BASIC courtesy. They are NOT fancy.

It boggles my mind that people here are to some extent arguing against this most basic tenet of civilized society. You're NOT "compromising your authenticity" by saying "please" or "thank you". Or if you are, you are authentically a not nice person.

Regarding "chief" "boss" or ANYTHING else, the point is that MANY of your customers are offended by it. Drop it, if you are in the service industry and actually give a **** about not offending a portion of your clientele, and if you care about your tip jar. If you prefer not to call someone "sir" or "ma'am", that's perfectly fine. Drop the use of those types of nouns entirely. "Hi! Welcome to _______" and "what can I get for you today?" and "have a nice day" are still great without "ma'am" and "sir", but "hey dude, welcome to _______", "what can I get you chief?" or "thanks boss" are bound to piss off and alienate at least a portion of your clientele (of all ages). Why on EARTH would you insist on doing that? Just to be right? Dumb. You're in this to make money, not to run off customers by being hard-headed and prideful.

And, it's not an ethical knock on people who say "no problem" (who ever said THAT?); it's just bad use of language that is guaranteed to confuse and turn off some customers. Why would you ever do that when "please" and "thank you" and "you're welcome" communicate respect and appreciation so much more clearly, to every generation and socio-economic group. Again, go back and read the links I posted, and see why "no problem" actually IS a problem, strictly from a business sense. Please.

If a server addresses customers by "chief" or "boss", the customer should be empowered to summon the manager and terminate the server from serving said customer.

Yeah, seriously. Those terms make my skin crawl. "No problem" doesn't really bother me, but that certainly would.

It's funny... I have different bars for different moods. If I want to be social, be chatted with by the bartender and other patrons, and such, I'll hit Skinny Slims, which is my default. Now, everyone who works at the Edmond location knows my name, but I tend to think that when I first started going there they greeted me as sir. I think one guy called me "bud" a few times, but he knew I was a regular and that the other staff was pretty casual with me.

On the other hand, there are times I don't feel like interacting with people and just want to be left alone. Typically, especially if it's slow (like not a drown night) I'll use some place like the Wolf Trap. Besides the basic greeting, I get left alone, usually called "sir" (unless I open a tab and then they read and use me name.

So my expectations vary by mood. The only thing I'm universal on is if you're going to call me by name, don't bastardize it. I'm Jerry. Not Jerr, or Gerald, or Jerraldo. Jerry was my dad's name, and is my son's name.

On the note of authenticity, I learned a useful lesson years ago when I was in sales. When someone asks how your day is going, train yourself to answer "unbelievable" enthusiastically. No matter how your day is, it's the truth, but it sounds much more positive.

^^^^^^^
I agree completely that an EXTRA casual setting (almost exclusively a bar when you are talking bar/restaurant) can make it OK to be more chummy right off the bat. And all bets are off if you are a regular at a place. When I go to a place where the bartender or other servers know me, I am glad to be called by my name or whatever, as most people are.

But to call a complete stranger, right off the bat "bro", "dude", "chief", etc.,? That is risky, offensive to some, and doesn't even belong in a fast casual or burger type restaurant. Seriously.

Agreed. I'm also not sure why "boss" seems to me more and more common lately.

It boggles my mind that people here are to some extent arguing against this most basic tenet of civilized society. You're NOT "compromising your authenticity" by saying "please" or "thank you". Or if you are, you are authentically a not nice person.
.

This is where you lost me. I don't see "please" and "thank you" as the bedrocks of civilization. That's agriculture... literally ;)

And, to be clear, no one said saying "please" or "thank you" meant compromising your authenticity. But I don't think it defines whether you're a nice person either. If I was hungry and someone fed me, I don't care if they said please, thank you, or you're welcome. I'd say they're a nice person. Having said that, I say please and thank you, and I'm not at all discouraging it. Since a lot of people have that expectation, if you're in the service industry then, by all means, tell your employees to say it. I'm just not defining people, generations, cultures by it.

Please and thank you, the magic words.
C. T.

...If I was hungry and someone fed me, I don't care if they said please, thank you, or you're welcome. I'd say they're a nice person...

This is truly a bizarre conversation. We are not talking about a food kitchen, or a church feeding the hungry, or a family taking in the poor. We are talking about an exchange of currency for goods and services.

Absolutely fascinating thread.

It has been very interesting.

Here's another question: If you were managing a restaurant or other business where you had lots of others providing customer service, would you be okay if they called *your* customers 'boss', 'chief', 'buddy' or 'dude'? Especially knowing that lots of people don't like be addressed this way?

^^^^^
I think a lot of people who are trying to argue with me in this thread don't understand that this is wholly the perspective from which I am writing. Honestly, I don't care that much if someone calls ME "chief" or "boss". But I will be damned if one of my employees is going to use one of those terms to address a new customer.

And when I hear one of those terms, or hear "no problem", it doesn't upset ME, But it does make me cringe on behalf of their employer and the server's tip jar.

Everyone is writing from the perspective of THEY don't mind hearing this, or THEY should be able to say whatever they feel like. It's so entirely self-absorbed.

Customer service isn't about YOU, specifically. Even if you are an individual customer, and ESPECIALLY if you are a server. Customer service is about making ALL of your customers happy (or, realistically, as many as is humanly possible). Period.

And if that means dropping a term that you like, because it offends a large portion of your clientele, or saying "please", "thank you", and "you're welcome" - even though you believe that they are unnecessary societal constructs - well...that's what you're going to do. Or you're going to work for somebody else.

Being in business means finding the best way to please customers by meeting their expectations. Wise business owners find, hire and train employees who understand that and strive to accomplish it. Part of the process is identifying the elements that make that happen. When employees interact directly with customers, HOW they do it is important. Any business that doesn't understand that and train/manage their employees in that aim will ultimately pay for it.

^^^^^
I think a lot of people who are trying to argue with me in this thread don't understand that this is wholly the perspective from which I am writing. Honestly, I don't care that much if someone calls ME "chief" or "boss". But I will be damned if one of my employees uses one of those terms to address a new customer.

And when I hear one of those terms, or hear "no problem", it doesn't upset ME, But it does make me cringe on behalf of their employer and the server's tip jar.

Everyone is writing from the perspective of THEY don't mind hearing this, or THEY should be able to say whatever they feel like. It's so entirely self-absorbed.

Customer service isn't about YOU, specifically. Even if you are an individual customer, and ESPECIALLY if you are a server. Customer service is about making ALL of your customers happy (or, realistically, as many as is humanly possible). Period.

And if that means dropping a term that you like, because it offends a large portion of your clientele, or saying "please", "thank you", and "you're welcome" even though you believe that they are unnecessary societal constructs...well...that's what you're going to do. Or you're going to work for somebody else.

Although I have no problem with "no problem"....it is about the customer. We discussed this at our staff meeting yesterday to ensure that none of our staff was saying it. In today's highly competitive business market, why would you want to do anything that could potentially offend a single potential customer. Whether it is keeping the parking lot clean, addressing customers correctly and with respect and doing everything within your power to ensure their experience with your staff, your service and your facility is as pleasant as possible.

For the record, I agree on boss and chief dude and man. I think you will find we agree for the most part. My only disagreement is on the appropriateness of "no problem" under the certain circumstances I outlined.

If someone asked "Would it be a problem if I ordered sardines with my tea?", then an appropriate response might be "It's no problem". Otherwise, it is a largely inappropriate phrase to a large segment of customers unless it might happen to be at McDonalds where people don't expect to meet a properly trained customer service focused employee. If I have to ask to have my water glass refilled and the response is "no problem", it is particularly incorrect.

Could be worse. They could say "No Problemo"

Regarding the "no problem," "chief," and "boss" debate, I can understand both sides of the argument. Objectively of course none of it is an issue, but there are objective repercussions to the subjective importance the use of these terms if and when enough people are bothered by them, so from a business perspective, it's something to be considered.

I take the side of those who don't personally care what phrases are used as long as they're done so in a positive and respectful tone. I hate being treated like a burden when I'm being served, and that's a feeling you can get even when somebody is checking all the boxes of polite terminology.

"No problem" was always my go-to response when somebody thanked me for something when I was younger. I grew to see "you're welcome" as more appropriate most of the time, but the sentiment is the same. Nowadays sometimes I catch myself saying "mmhmm" or "yep" as a response to being thanked, and I'll quickly correct myself to use the more formal "you're welcome," as it all tends to sound a bit drab and unenthusiastic. But again, the sentiment being all the same, I'm not irked if somebody no-problems me.

that's what you're going to do. Or you're going to work for somebody else.
More than 40 years ago, I made a poster for my wife's then-boss (who over the years became an honorary member of our family) that he could put on the wall of his office. It read "Sometimes I'm right. Sometimes I'm wrong. All times I'm boss."

At the time he was rather new to the office, having moved down from Minneapolis to take charge, and he was having a bit of a problem becoming accepted.

After putting up the poster, his problem evaporated. Of course that was more than 40 years ago. Shame the idea doesn't seem to be acceptable today!

This is truly a bizarre conversation. We are not talking about a food kitchen, or a church feeding the hungry, or a family taking in the poor. We are talking about an exchange of currency for goods and services.

Go back and read my full posts. I pretty much keep agreeing with you about what is wise service etiquette, but I guess we can continue this dance a little longer... ;)

It has been very interesting.

Here's another question: If you were managing a restaurant or other business where you had lots of others providing customer service, would you be okay if they called *your* customers 'boss', 'chief', 'buddy' or 'dude'? Especially knowing that lots of people don't like be addressed this way?

Has anyone advocated this as a wise business decision? Maybe I missed it. Myself and others have expressed our own personal preferences, but I think most people agree that servers should be cautious to satisfy the larger customer base.

Although Dick's actually built a business on insulting customers... So maybe there's a market for more laid back service. Who knows?

Just curious Pete, but did you address your concern with the management on the lack of respect shown to you as a customer? It seems that one solution could be to summon the manager and explain why you are not going to show financial "gratitude" to the server/bar keep, but instead reward the busser, host(ess) with the tip instead.

^^^^^^^
Without question there is a market for it, and Dick's is a perfect example, but also an inauthentic experience. Those people are essentially acting. Same with a place like Coyote Ugly.

But there are places where you wouldn't think twice about being referred to as "man", etc.. The pump comes to mind, although I have always found the staff there to be professional. But it is a very laid back atmosphere. Lots of tattoos, a little cleavage here and there; you know right away that a waiter won't be using a crumb scraper between courses. There will be some people who just aren't drawn to that environment, but that's OK because MANY others are coming there JUST FOR the feel of the place.

That said, pretty sure that Pete was referencing places not specifically going for laid-back, and going for a middle-of-the-road to upscale experience. Alienating a broad segment of the population there is DUMB.

And again, at EVERY place it's fair to expect "please", "thank you" and "you're welcome". Except perhaps Dick's. ;)

It really is all about concept, but far more important than concept is delivering your service convincingly. Part of being convincing is not appearing like you are waiting on the 2,853rd table of your career. Part of being convincing is not replying to every "Thank You" the same way. Part of being convincing is knowing when and how to change up the things that you say to a table.

Sometimes a "no problem" makes sense, most of the time it doesn't. Sometimes calling a guest "Boss" makes sense, most of the time it doesn't.

In general, it's a good rule of thumb as a server to not use idiosyncratic language with every table you work with. Why? because it undermines everything you want to build as someone attempting to convince guests to enjoy an experience they could more or less create in other settings for 3x to 5x less than they are about to spend. You can't do that if you're calling 15 guests a night "boss" or "chief". You can't do that if you respond "no problem" to every single request/thank you that you're given. You can't do that if you're not confident enough to interact with your tables as though they are people rather than customers.

The sentiment of the thread is that OKC is sorely lacking a moderate professionalism from an incredibly high percentage of servers. As a "professional" server, I can assure you that this is 100% correct. I can also assure you the problem is going to get worse before it gets better. Far too many restaurants opening up with not nearly a high enough quality management pool.

Tonight I was at a coffee place in the Gaylord Texan and this happened:

Me: Where are the forks?
Employee: *points to his right* Right over there by the wall.
Me; Thanks.
Employee: No problem, boss.

I wonder how many times this happened and I didn't notice it prior to this thread raising my consciousness about it. Lol. I will say that I found the conversation totally appropriate personally... for me... Again, I'm not speaking as to whether it was a smart customer service practice overall. But the guy was friendly, smiled, and helped me get what I need. That works for me. :D

Low expectations will always be met.

Low expectations will always be met.

Luckily, I didn't have high expectations for your response. \burn/

Low expectations will always be met.

I've never had white table cloth service when requesting directions to the self serve forks.