View Full Version : Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus



kelroy55
10-01-2015, 03:02 PM
My thoughts and prayers to all ......

ROSEBURG, Ore. -- A gunman opened fire at an Oregon community college Thursday, killing at least seven people and wounding 20, authorities said.

The shooting happened at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, about 180 miles south of Portland. The local fire district advised people via Twitter to stay away from the school. It later tweeted that there were "multiple casualties" but did not elaborate.

Active shooter at UCC. Please stay away from the area

Fire Dist No.2 (@DCFD2) October 1, 2015
State police Lt. Bill Fugate told KATU-TV that seven to 10 people were dead and at least 20 others hurt. A photographer for the Roseburg News-Review newspaper said he saw people being loaded into multiple ambulances and taken to the local hospital.

Oregon shooting: Umpqua Community College in Roseburg site of deadly rampage - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oregon-community-college-shooting-umpqua-community-college-roseburg/)

Dustin
10-01-2015, 03:36 PM
Another mass shooting in America.

Thoughts are with all involved.

jerrywall
10-01-2015, 03:48 PM
Looks like the sick jerk posted about this on 4chan yesterday, and was encouraged by the other posters. I'm hoping that turns out to be a hoax because that level of sickness (both in him and the posters) is horrifying.

Dustin
10-01-2015, 03:58 PM
Sick.

http://i.4cdn.org/b/1443731065797.png

Jersey Boss
10-01-2015, 04:13 PM
Exceptionalism.

School Shootings in America Since Sandy Hook | Everytown for Gun Safety (http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/)

Since the December 2012 shooting in Newtown, CT, there have been at least 142 school shootings in America — an average of nearly one a week. How many more before our leaders pass common-sense laws to prevent gun violence and save lives?

jerrywall
10-01-2015, 04:20 PM
Trouble is, it's hard to figure out which common sense laws would prevent gun violence. Maybe a $1000 per bullet tax?

Throckmorton
10-01-2015, 05:52 PM
Didn't have to go back far to C&P this from the last time I posted it.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens (http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131)

Motley
10-01-2015, 06:12 PM
So what is it about the U.S. that makes so many people resort to mass killing? I am not talking guns because the access to guns doesn’t make people want to take out mass numbers of innocent lives. What is in the psyche of US young adults that make them want to do this?

If we were the same as in other places, kids in other countries would find ways to kill. Drive a car through a crowded market; go on a stabbing spree in the subways; sabotage something. If you want to kill, you can find a way to make it happen. So why does our kids want to do it more than in other societies?

Another question: what other counties have this issue? Mexico? Iran? Are there other places in which kids routinely set out to mass murder? If so, how are we like those societies?

Urbanized
10-01-2015, 06:44 PM
I think it is a combination of things that include entertainment overload, rampant materialism and consumerism, failing educational systems (which is also tied to failing parents), loss of family unit (this isn't a morals comment but more of a divorce or both parents work comment) and suburban isolation. I think it is no coincidence that the vast number of these kids tend to be suburban, white and usually pretty intelligent. The fact of the matter is, in many parts of this country if you don't drive the right car, have the right clothes, have the right friends etc., etc. you are ostracized, and some kids (thankfully not all, or even very many) respond VERY poorly to that pressure, ESPECIALLY if they are also disconnected from their parents. BTW, pervasive entertainment now makes "many parts of the country" more like "most parts of the country."

Also, whether through entertainment, games or whatever, when you are disconnected from society other people become objects that you see from across the room, or on TV, or on social media, or in a video game. In the 4chan thread where people were apparently egging this kid on, one of the posters told him that they hoped he "get[s] a high score."

No other place in the world has so much media and peer pressure to have/do meaningless, vapid things, and that can lead to terrible existential depression and crisis. People desperately want meaning, and in this country, for too many people that is synonymous with power, popularity and money. These kids figure they'll never get the power or money, but they can get the fame. And to some extent they can also get the power, that is, power over whether other people live or die. Other posters on 4chan were encouraging him to take out all of the "Chads," which is a euphemism they use for popular, mainstream kids.

There are lots of books that explain what has happened in this country over the past 50-60 years that coincided with this uptick, but a good one to extrapolate from is Bowling Alone (http://bowlingalone.com/)

Urbanized
10-01-2015, 06:57 PM
From Bowling Alone (the book was published in 2000, so these factoids are dated but surely now are even worse):


Joining and participating in one group cuts in half your odds of dying next year.
Every ten minutes of commuting reduces all forms of social capital by 10%
Watching commercial entertainment TV is the only leisure activity where doing more of it is associated with lower social capital.

Declining Social Capital: Trends over the last 25 years

Attending Club Meetings: 58% drop
Family dinners: 43% drop
Having friends over: 35% drop

About the book:

Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community

by Robert D. Putnam

(New York: Simon & Schuster, 2000). In a groundbreaking book based on vast data, Putnam shows how we have become increasingly disconnected from family, friends, neighbors, and our democratic structures– and how we may reconnect.

Putnam warns that our stock of social capital – the very fabric of our connections with each other, has plummeted, impoverishing our lives and communities.

Putnam draws on evidence including nearly 500,000 interviews over the last quarter century to show that we sign fewer petitions, belong to fewer organizations that meet, know our neighbors less, meet with friends less frequently, and even socialize with our families less often. We’re even bowling alone. More Americans are bowling than ever before, but they are not bowling in leagues. Putnam shows how changes in work, family structure, age, suburban life, television, computers, women’s roles and other factors have contributed to this decline.

America has civicly reinvented itself before — approximately 100 years ago at the turn of the last century. And America can civicly reinvent itself again – find out how and help make it happen at our companion site, BetterTogether.org, an initiative of the Saguaro Seminar on Civic Engagement at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government.

Chadanth
10-01-2015, 07:12 PM
From Bowling Alone (the book was published in 2000, so these factoids are dated but surely now are even worse):


Joining and participating in one group cuts in half your odds of dying next year.
Every ten minutes of commuting reduces all forms of social capital by 10%
Watching commercial entertainment TV is the only leisure activity where doing more of it is associated with lower social capital.
Declining Social Capital: Trends over the last 25 years
Attending Club Meetings: 58% drop
Family dinners: 43% drop
Having friends over: 35% drop

About the book:

Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community

by Robert D. Putnam

(New York: Simon & Schuster, 2000). In a groundbreaking book based on vast data, Putnam shows how we have become increasingly disconnected from family, friends, neighbors, and our democratic structures– and how we may reconnect.

Putnam warns that our stock of social capital – the very fabric of our connections with each other, has plummeted, impoverishing our lives and communities.

Putnam draws on evidence including nearly 500,000 interviews over the last quarter century to show that we sign fewer petitions, belong to fewer organizations that meet, know our neighbors less, meet with friends less frequently, and even socialize with our families less often. We’re even bowling alone. More Americans are bowling than ever before, but they are not bowling in leagues. Putnam shows how changes in work, family structure, age, suburban life, television, computers, women’s roles and other factors have contributed to this decline.

America has civicly reinvented itself before — approximately 100 years ago at the turn of the last century. And America can civicly reinvent itself again – find out how and help make it happen at our companion site, BetterTogether.org, an initiative of the Saguaro Seminar on Civic Engagement at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I just ordered it on Amazon, sounds fascinating.

Urbanized
10-01-2015, 07:14 PM
One last thing - and this is not a pro- or anti-gun comment - but whether you are pro gun control or not it is about a LOT more than JUST the guns. People sometimes try to make these incidents into one-dimensional problems that can be magically solved by whatever brand of politics that they like. I will admit that I myself am doing this to an extent by lumping in suburban isolation as a suspected root cause. But I am personally convinced that the reason this is so prevalent here and not in other countries is because of the way we live, and some generally ****ed up values that many (most?) Americans share. It's a manufactured problem; an unintended consequence of our own actions.

Urbanized
10-01-2015, 07:15 PM
Thanks for the book recommendation. I just ordered it on Amazon, sounds fascinating.

You're welcome.

zookeeper
10-01-2015, 07:23 PM
Very well said, Urbanized.
Another sad day.

Motley
10-01-2015, 07:47 PM
Thank you for that. It is a true shame that the media and politicians cannot explain the root cause of these events with such clarity.

jerrywall
10-01-2015, 09:25 PM
I guess the good news is the death toll is less than previously reported (I had seen as high as 15). On the flip. There's no such thing as good news on a tragedy like this...

Urbanized
10-01-2015, 09:36 PM
Thank you for that. It is a true shame that the media and politicians cannot explain the root cause of these events with such clarity.

The cynic in me says that many of them actually know quite a bit of this (well, at least many of the politicians do), but they all have something to gain or to lose by toeing the party line and nothing else. The cynic in me says that people of both parties wait jaded and somewhat eagerly for new bad stuff to happen - whether it is something like this or an economic crash or a terrorist attack - so that they can trot out their arguments and feel good about how they are right and the other guy is wrong. The cynic tells me that events like this are ratings and big business for the media, and so they have a vested interest in glorifying them, obsessing on them, and milking everything they can out of them during the news cycle, until the next bad or outrageous thing comes along to keep viewers horrified/enthralled/entertained.

We used to have the occasional statesman, and now we only have politicians. Media used to be a calling, and now it is just a machine. Both politics and media are big businesses, and taking on the multi-faceted problems I outline above is not only complex and daunting (and boring), it much more importantly doesn't get votes, and it doesn't pay the bills.

kelroy55
10-02-2015, 09:24 AM
I'm hoping today's youth will have the courage to change things. Today's politicians are too scared or bought off by the NRA. jmho

OKCretro
10-02-2015, 10:05 AM
I think if the media ignored these mass shootings like they do the killings in Chicago every weekend, there would be less of them.

Was this shooting in a "gun free zone"?

adaniel
10-02-2015, 10:40 AM
To build on Urbanized point, and I say this as a 29 year old, but I know so many of my fellow millenials that lead exceptionally lonely lives. Its not just some fringe characters; a lot of otherwise normal people who just kinda of slowly withdraw from society. And while social fabric has been in decline for some time, I feel like it has accelerated in the past decade. Can't really say why, although I think rising inequality, an increase in cultural "sorting," and the replacement of face to face interaction with social media all probably have big roles in that.

Put these types of people into a culture where mental health funding has been cut to the bone and you only need a pulse to buy a gun, and it should be no surprise that this happens in America so much more than other countries.



I think if the media ignored these mass shootings like they do the killings in Chicago every weekend, there would be less of them.

Was this shooting in a "gun free zone"?

Don't know how this relates to anything in Chicago. Oregon is a campus carry state, so to answer your question, no. You are free to go troll in the politics section, though.

jerrywall
10-02-2015, 10:48 AM
Don't know how this relates to anything in Chicago. Oregon is a campus carry state, so to answer your question, no.

Not to get in the middle, and not that I think it matters, but as a matter of clarification, this was a community college, so not covered under Oregon's campus carry rules (which only applies to state universities). And it is a gun-free zone from the information I've seen. But I've seen conflicting reports. Either way I don't think it's relevant.

As for the Chicago point, I agree, in the sense that the media coverage, and publishing the name of the shooters, does, IMO, contribute to more of these happening. It's an instant fame (or infamy) button for morons and losers.

OKCretro
10-02-2015, 11:08 AM
Don't know how this relates to anything in Chicago. Oregon is a campus carry state, so to answer your question, no. You are free to go troll in the politics section, though.

My point was the national media ignores the daily killings in Chicago, if the media did the same to these losers who kill at schools, movie theaters etc, there would be less of them.

Don't publish his name, don't have his trial on tv etc. Every single one of us on here could probably identify the movie theater shooter from Denver.

If you think that is "trolling" you might want to look up the definition of the word.

Chadanth
10-02-2015, 11:13 AM
My point was the national media ignores the daily killings in Chicago, if the media did the same to these losers who kill at schools, movie theaters etc, there would be less of them.

Don't publish his name, don't have his trial on tv etc. Every single one of us on here could probably identify the movie theater shooter from Denver.

If you think that is "trolling" you might want to look up the definition of the word.

The "national media" does not ignore it, but it's not front page every day because it's a local matter. I don't think the local news in NYC covers homicides in OKC unless it's something particularly sensational. This is a common, but absurd distraction. Chicago isn't even the city with the highest homicide rate, by far.

jerrywall
10-02-2015, 11:29 AM
Army Vet Shot 7 Times Hailed As Hero In Oregon Massacre CBS Pittsburgh (http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/10/02/army-vet-shot-7-times-hailed-as-hero-in-oregon-massacre/)

This is the guy we should focus on. Chris Mintz is a name I'll try to remember from this shooting. Screw the gunman. I don't want to ever know his name. The victims and the heroes are the only names that matter.

TheTravellers
10-02-2015, 11:30 AM
I think if the media ignored these mass shootings like they do the killings in Chicago every weekend, there would be less of them. ...

I suspect the national media ignores the Chicago shootings because they're not mass shootings, it's just one or two that die each time (not totally sure of this, haven't researched it, but seems likely). But the national media will never ignore mass shootings, it just won't happen, just like gun reform/control/whatever just won't happen, most likely not until a bunch of politician's kids (or politicians themselves) get killed, and maybe not even then. Also, has ignoring Chicago's shootings helped bring down the frequency of those? I suspect not.

I've pretty much lost hope for any meaningful change in American politics in my lifetime, which is really sad and I hate to admit it, but I've come to that realization over the past few years, and it's just been reinforced with all the stupid GOP crap that they keep pulling, Wall Street, the overwhelming greed and lust for money that is consuming the 1% (that's screwing up the rest of the country), and the high-center that we (America) seems to be stuck on. Maybe we do need Trump to get elected and to totally f*** this country up so badly that the wool will finally be lifted from the sheeple's eyes and the general populace gets a clue and starts doing the right thing, and electing the right people. Nah, never gonna happen, still want to move to France...

hoya
10-02-2015, 11:42 AM
My point was the national media ignores the daily killings in Chicago, if the media did the same to these losers who kill at schools, movie theaters etc, there would be less of them.

Don't publish his name, don't have his trial on tv etc. Every single one of us on here could probably identify the movie theater shooter from Denver.

If you think that is "trolling" you might want to look up the definition of the word.

I agree with you. I think the fame that they get from the act is part of the motivation. The truth is, there's a certain group of disturbed people that sees these mass shootings and they nod their heads. They think "that's the way to show those guys, they'll pay for what they did to you". I was in college when Columbine happened. I remember everybody was horrified, except for this one guy who was like "well that's what those popular kids get, they have to learn that they can't pick on people like that".

There is probably some guy out there, right now, who is watching the news coverage on this and he's planning his own shooting. Talking about what a horrible monster this guy is will only encourage this type further.

adaniel
10-02-2015, 12:19 PM
Don't agree with this at all.

They all have their own reasons, but its largely unsubstantiated that most mass shooters do it for fame. Most are way too angry or disturbed to give a rats behind about fame.

Hell, we will drag people in society and put their names, addresses, family member names, religious affiliations etc. out in public for doing far less. Yet someone kills people and we shouldn't know their name in some heroic attempt to "honor the victims?" Makes zero sense to me, not to mention it is unrealistic in today's environment. We have a duty to know why these things happen so we can at least try to prevent them in the future. It is one that we have admittedly failed miserably at as of late, but I hold out a glimmer of hope that will change one day.

His name is Chris Mercer btw. Lets switch him out from a run of the mill angry white guy who wanted to kill Christians to a radicalized Arabic Muslim who wanted to kill Christians; I guarantee we would want to know the backstory and why this happened.

Your personal choice to remain willfully ignorant.

jerrywall
10-02-2015, 12:41 PM
This scumbag who I will not name, wrote...

“On an interesting note, I have noticed that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more your’re in the limelight,”

But yeah, totally unsubstantiated. Feel free to honor him and help to fulfill his wishes. I'll remember the heroes and the victims.

OKCretro
10-02-2015, 02:07 PM
Adaniel


part of the problem we have in our society is the bullying. Several of these lunatic shooters have mentioned bullying be a factor.

In your last 2 posts you have called me a troll and ignorant which is bullying. You are singling me out and trying to make fun of me for my opinion. Doing those things does not help the conversion it only hurts it.

I get that everyone thinks their own opinion is the right one, but making fun of someone and quickly writing them off for having a different opinion does not help the situation at all.

I guess this thread is your thread so I wont post anymore in it. Have a wonderful day, maybe get outside its a beautiful day.

Edmond_Outsider
10-02-2015, 04:24 PM
We've tried giving the NRA everything it wants and there continues to be an increase in mass shootings.

More guns hasn't ever made people more polite, less likely to die a violent death, or any of the other things people seem to believe.

Except for that weird fantasy people have about taking on the government with their small arm, a laughable notion to be sure, isn't it well past time to try something else?

jerrywall
10-02-2015, 04:42 PM
The trouble is, every solution that's directed at guns that I've seen amounts to putting a finger into a hole in a dam, when there are another 30 holes, and there's already thousands of gallons of water around you.

I mean, close the gun show loophole? Sure. Better background checks? Not sure what more we could check. The only thing that makes sense to me short of a magic wand is to address the consumable/perishable part of guns, which are the bullets.

But I also believe there is a huge cultural problem we need to address. I was having a discussion with someone on my thoughts on why all these mass shooters are men. I mean, there are women with guns. And women who get angry. Why aren't women participating in mass shootings? There's got to be something in the way we raise men in America that engenders this behavior. Whether it's because for generations we've taught boys to repress their emotions, and bottle it up, or that the response to bullying is to tell them to fight back, or the over inflated culture of "masculinity", or something else, I just don't know.

Motley
10-02-2015, 04:46 PM
I don't know what to make of it, but it seems that most of these mass killers have an arsenal of guns, so they seem somewhat obsessed with guns and weapons.

kevinpate
10-02-2015, 11:51 PM
I don't know what to make of it, but it seems that most of these mass killers have an arsenal of guns, so they seem somewhat obsessed with guns and weapons.

I don't know the answer, but this does prompt a question ... do mass shooters have an arsenal before they start formulating their plan, or is obtaining an arsenal an early stage of the plan? I see those are very different situations myself.