View Full Version : Copper theft



Pete
07-23-2015, 11:39 AM
In speaking to the owner of the Tiffany Apartments, he mentioned a big part of the lure for break-ins is copper theft.

He said that in that entire building there was maybe $100K worth of copper, yet the thieves will end up doing a million dollars of damage in tearing up walls, etc.

Copper theft has become a big problem in OKC. I've looked at a few homes that sat idle just for a few months, and thieves get in there and strip out all the wiring, plumbing, water heaters and a/c compressors.

So, it turns a problem property into one that is a colossal mess, and one that is very hard to resolve as the owners have problems selling because no one wants to take on such a disaster.

There are tried-and-true ways of dealing with this problem. Other states have implemented laws that require copper sellers to document where the obtained the metal. Obviously, when some crack heads show up with a truck load of wire and pipe it's not hard to figure out it's all stolen property.

Oklahoma or perhaps just OKC needs to look into implementing such a law. It would largely curtail an ever-growing problem and help with foreclosed and abandoned buildings being more marketable and salvageable.

Pete
07-23-2015, 11:44 AM
Turns out Oklahoma passed a copper theft law in 2013 but either it's not being well enforced or people are taking copper out of the state:

http://www.kswo.com/story/22491261/new-copp

jerrywall
07-23-2015, 12:21 PM
Yeah, I imagine enforcement is one issue, and people going out of state is the other. As mentioned in the article, even if there were no state laws, many of the cities in Oklahoma have "pawn" laws, which have to do with buying anything used or scrap. So this would have covered any of the places in OKC. Even at my comic shop I had to get ID's and keep a log of any purchases I made for used comics or collectibles. But it was never checked or inspected, even though every year I had to renew my used merchandise permit.

Pete
07-23-2015, 12:24 PM
Yeah, probably a case of having no resources to do anything with all the records.

Or, just not making follow-up and checking any sort of priority.

Seems like fines could pay for a few people to monitor these activities.

jn1780
07-23-2015, 02:40 PM
You would think the owners would have gone ahead and yanked out everything of value if the plan was to strip the building down to concrete anyway.

Martin
07-23-2015, 02:46 PM
i've been considering putting in a small patch of copper roofing and copper guttering on my home and one of my concerns is theft... i'd feel pretty sick coming home to find that my house had been targeted. -M

mkjeeves
07-23-2015, 03:02 PM
Yeah, probably a case of having no resources to do anything with all the records.

Or, just not making follow-up and checking any sort of priority.

Seems like fines could pay for a few people to monitor these activities.

I think the real problem is almost everything in stolen building materials can't be traced. Copper wire is copper wire. Even if they get the ID of a copper seller, there's no way to prove any of the copper came from a specific place (usually.)

A possible exception...I was in the McDonalds restroom at 23rd and Penn a few years ago when that was a more sketchy area. They had people go in the bathrooms and steal the brass fittings off the fixtures, possibly more than once, so they took a hand engraver and engraved "McDonalds" on all the fittings!

Bellaboo
07-23-2015, 03:34 PM
Turns out Oklahoma passed a copper theft law in 2013 but either it's not being well enforced or people are taking copper out of the state:

New Copper Theft Law Strictest in Country - KSWO, Lawton, OK- Wichita Falls, TX: News, Weather, Sports. ABC, 24/7, Telemundo - (http://www.kswo.com/story/22491261/new-copp)

I recycle aluminum cans just to keep them out of the dump. I happened to have a brass valve that had broke on my sprinkler flow back system and decided to take it in with the next bag of cans. The cans are easy, but brass and copper are required to be taken to another building where it gets weighed, they take your mug shot along with a photo of what you are selling. I did this for a $6 piece of brass, but not sure i'd take the effort to do it again.

Urbanized
07-24-2015, 06:28 PM
^^^^^^^^^
Yeah I go through giant 8D8G gel batteries fairly often, and scrap them for lead. The process is completely onerous, the place is post-apocalyptic, with tweekers and crackheads appearing like ghosts with shopping carts full of scrap metal, in cars that shouldn't be on the road, etc.. After someone comes out and weighs your stuff, you get a ticket, which you then walk into a cinder-block dead-end outdoor hallway with no lights, slide your ticket and ID through steel drawer and bulletproof glass, get your photo taken and then get money shoved back through the same drawer. Every moment on property you're fairly sure that you are going to be murdered. It's an awful experience.

Pete
07-24-2015, 06:45 PM
Wow, that sounds like a fun time!

And it begs the question: If crackheads are able to sell obviously stolen scrap metal, what on earth good is this whole contrived system?

Mel
07-24-2015, 08:30 PM
^^^^^^^^^
Yeah I go through giant 8D8G gel batteries fairly often, and scrap them for lead. The process is completely onerous, the place is post-apocalyptic, with tweekers and crackheads appearing like ghosts with shopping carts full of scrap metal, in cars that shouldn't be on the road, etc.. After someone comes out and weighs your stuff, you get a ticket, which you then walk into a cinder-block dead-end outdoor hallway with no lights, slide your ticket and ID through steel drawer and bulletproof glass, get your photo taken and then get money shoved back through the same drawer. Every moment on property you're fairly sure that you are going to be murdered. It's an awful experience.

You are one dedicated recycler!

mkjeeves
07-24-2015, 10:24 PM
Yep. It's way to easy to convert scrap to cash. When the last law was crafted I advocated through a trade group for relatively expensive licensing and a requirement for an established business address to be able to sell scrap to a dealer. Even though I own a business that would have been affected, I wouldn't mind paying a fee or dealing with extra regulation. We ended up with a law that accomplished absolutely nothing.

Pete
07-25-2015, 06:20 AM
This is a really interesting discussion.

It demonstrates how lawmakers try to solve a problem and seem to do so, but in the end the changes don't really help fix the problem and only create headache and expense/trouble for the honest recyclers and business owners.

hfry
07-25-2015, 08:22 AM
Knowing a few recyclers they have some of the funniest stories of people trying to sell things illegally and how they probably weekly call the police. I think some of it is it is generally known copper can be sold for a lot so the idea of stealing it is easy, yet the actually selling it is hard. Yet people who steal it don't think of that, they just know it's worth money. Laws can only do so much to restrict the buying but I still feel people are going to strip it and try and sell it regardless of the laws.

IanMcDermid
07-25-2015, 02:03 PM
I recycled some 300lbs of aluminum left from a over-supply on the pump build. I had the same experience of feeling the likelihood of being murdered at any moment. I also bought one of a huge pile of mini-fridges. They had new/used refridgeration piled up in the office. Window units, ac compressors. It wasn't until I left that I made the conclusion it was all ripped off and sold for scrap but worth more for the recyclers to sell the functioning appliance.

oklip955
07-26-2015, 08:05 AM
A year or so ago I redid some copper plumbing that was leaking. Anyway, I did not want to mess with the trip to the recyclers, I just left it out at the end of my driveway (long drive I live out in the country) Nobody ever picked it up. I put it in the back of my pickup in a little box thinking someone who take it. Nope, now over a year later, I still have it in the back of the truck. Maybe I need to put a sign on the box.

BBatesokc
07-26-2015, 08:19 AM
The way the laws are now, it really comes down to the recycler being honest.

I see this all the time in the SW part of the city. There are several recyclers and the larger ones play by the rules because they don't rely on business from thieves. However, there are two smaller operations that everyone knows they can take their stolen copper, catalytic converters and even entire stolen vehicles.

Its like pawn shops. The larger chains are participate in the database that police agencies have access to. The smaller independents don't - so guess who the thieves sell their stolen merchandise to?