For what it's worth, I thought I would share some thoughts now that I've been in OKC for several days.

I haven't been here in about a year and a half and so before the trip, I made a list of the places I wanted to see and it's quite long!

After five straight pretty late nights of being out, last night I finally had to head home a bit early, but I'll be out again the next four nights.

As Urbanized and others have said, this town is now dangerous. There are at least a dozen places I could hang out at all the time to the detriment of my liver and general health: Slaughter's Hall/WSKY, Skinny Slims, Urban Johnnies, Broadway 10 bar, Sidecar, Bleu Garten, R&J, Fassler/Dust Bowl, O Bar, The Garage, Empire, Saints, The Mule, The Pump, Pizzeria Gusto, Republic, Power House... I could go on and on. And almost all these places have just opened in the last year or so. Plenty more on the way, too.

The net affect – and a fundamental shift in the community – is that people are out. Just about everywhere I've been I've run into friends and acquaintances and I don't even live here. I can imagine how it must be for people living in Deep Deuce or Midtown or Gatewood. Makes it so easy to socialize and meet friends of friends.

And you see younger people – and people in general – out running and walking everywhere in the core. As I said, you just see so many people out and about now and that's really a fundamental shift from just a few years ago. And of course, that momentum is only increasing.

On the downside, there are still far too many holes. This always hits me when I visit because we of course concentrate on the hundreds (literally) of new projects and yet with all that infill and redevelopment, most of our urban districts still have plenty of ways to go. Just underscores how deep the hole was from which we started, which is easy to forget.

The gaps are in some ways a good thing, because they represent opportunity for so much more development and tremendous capacity for people and businesses.

But as much as all the neon is cool on Auto Alley, there is so little life there apart from the small area close to 10th street and even the stuff on 9th feels detached. All those empty lots and under-utilized buildings, mainly towards the south. That is changing but wow, with all that has happened there it's still surprising there is so much left to fill.

And Midtown/SoSA is even worse in that regard. Still big chunks of vacant lots and run-down buildings. I know the streetcar will really accelerate the infill in both AA and MT in particular and that will be a very good thing; it's still very much needed.

I still think Midtown represents OKC's best chance for greatness, and I still think that will come. All the pieces are in place with tons more under construction and a lot more that will come with time. It really has it all in terms of access to downtown, Uptown and the expansive district itself. It just feels so cool walking around there but just way too many remaining holes to really be able to show that area off as something that will make OKC stand out. I suspect that will take about another 5 years or so.

And in meeting with so many people, it really strikes you how many really love OKC and are actively involved in making it a better place. There is this excitement and enthusiasm radiating from so many and almost all of them are busy making bigger plans. Such a palpable spirit of, “We are just getting started and I want in!”

There are still so many ways people can make a difference, too. Committees and small development opportunities; starting a business, bar or restaurant... The City seems full of people who are constantly interacting and trying to figure out the next new thing, how to put a deal together, etc.

I know there is some backlash here against too few holding too much power, and I raise that issue frequently myself. But in reality there are hundreds of people making a difference in this town, all in their own way. And plenty of room for more, which means that community of activists seem very willing to not only accept new players but also assist them. If you think about that, it's pretty darn cool and I would bet also somewhat unique.

I really think it's that pride and enthusiasm and spirit of cooperation that will set OKC apart. I realize there are always conflicts but even then, those seem to get worked out eventually. I think that everyone understands the common goals and even respects those getting things done when there is a difference of opinion or some territoriality.


I know we often lament about not setting standards high enough and that we are too anxious to congratulate ourselves for doing better than the 90's, which in itself isn't much of an accomplishment. But we do have scores and scores of people who 'get it' and there is no question the culture has already shifted dramatically.

We'd all like things to change faster but in truth we've already come a long, long way and I like the way the large majority of local players are approaching all this. And it seems the momentum is picking up steam.

BTW, it's glaringly obvious to me the two areas that are still in need of tremendous upgrades: public transportation and recreation.

The private development is rolling now but these two areas have to be driven by the government with prodding and support from the citizenry.

I really hope MAPS 4 concentrates on these two things in various ways: expanding the streetcar, starting commuter rail in Edmond and Norman, adding tons of sidewalks, bike lanes and trails, improving parks and adding more recreation activities along the river and elsewhere.

We are still way behind in public trans and recreation and now that we have tons of great bars and restaurants, we're going to need those things more than ever!

For what it's worth, I thought I would share some thoughts now that I've been in OKC for several days.

I haven't been here in about a year and a half and so before the trip, I made a list of the places I wanted to see and it's quite long!

After five straight pretty late nights of being out, last night I finally had to head home a bit early, but I'll be out again the next four nights.

As Urbanized and others have said, this town is now dangerous. There are at least a dozen places I could hang out at all the time to the detriment of my liver and general health: Slaughter's Hall/WSKY, Skinny Slims, Urban Johnnies, Broadway 10 bar, Sidecar, Bleu Garten, R&J, Fassler/Dust Bowl, O Bar, The Garage, Empire, Saints, The Mule, The Pump, Pizzeria Gusto, Republic, Power House... I could go on and on. And almost all these places have just opened in the last year or so. Plenty more on the way, too.

The net affect – and a fundamental shift in the community – is that people are out. Just about everywhere I've been I've run into friends and acquaintances and I don't even live here. I can imagine how it must be for people living in Deep Deuce or Midtown or Gatewood. Makes it so easy to socialize and meet friends of friends.

And you see younger people – and people in general – out running and walking everywhere in the core. As I said, you just see so many people out and about now and that's really a fundamental shift from just a few years ago. And of course, that momentum is only increasing.

On the downside, there are still far too many holes. This always hits me when I visit because we of course concentrate on the hundreds (literally) of new projects and yet with all that infill and redevelopment, most of our urban districts still have plenty of ways to go. Just underscores how deep the hole was from which we started, which is easy to forget.

The gaps are in some ways a good thing, because they represent opportunity for so much more development and tremendous capacity for people and businesses.

But as much as all the neon is cool on Auto Alley, there is so little life there apart from the small area close to 10th street and even the stuff on 9th feels detached. All those empty lots and under-utilized buildings, mainly towards the south. That is changing but wow, with all that has happened there it's still surprising there is so much left to fill.

And Midtown/SoSA is even worse in that regard. Still big chunks of vacant lots and run-down buildings. I know the streetcar will really accelerate the infill in both AA and MT in particular and that will be a very good thing; it's still very much needed.

I still think Midtown represents OKC's best chance for greatness, and I still think that will come. All the pieces are in place with tons more under construction and a lot more that will come with time. It really has it all in terms of access to downtown, Uptown and the expansive district itself. It just feels so cool walking around there but just way too many remaining holes to really be able to show that area off as something that will make OKC stand out. I suspect that will take about another 5 years or so.

And in meeting with so many people, it really strikes you how many really love OKC and are actively involved in making it a better place. There is this excitement and enthusiasm radiating from so many and almost all of them are busy making bigger plans. Such a palpable spirit of, “We are just getting started and I want in!”

There are still so many ways people can make a difference, too. Committees and small development opportunities; starting a business, bar or restaurant... The City seems full of people who are constantly interacting and trying to figure out the next new thing, how to put a deal together, etc.

I know there is some backlash here against too few holding too much power, and I raise that issue frequently myself. But in reality there are hundreds of people making a difference in this town, all in their own way. And plenty of room for more, which means that community of activists seem very willing to not only accept new players but also assist them. If you think about that, it's pretty darn cool and I would bet also somewhat unique.

I really think it's that pride and enthusiasm and spirit of cooperation that will set OKC apart. I realize there are always conflicts but even then, those seem to get worked out eventually. I think that everyone understands the common goals and even respects those getting things done when there is a difference of opinion or some territoriality.


I know we often lament about not setting standards high enough and that we are too anxious to congratulate ourselves for doing better than the 90's, which in itself isn't much of an accomplishment. But we do have scores and scores of people who 'get it' and there is no question the culture has already shifted dramatically.

We'd all like things to change faster but in truth we've already come a long, long way and I like the way the large majority of local players are approaching all this. And it seems the momentum is picking up steam.

This is one of the best analysis of where OKC is currently at that I've read. Celebrates the positive without glossing over the negative.

I think a real turning point for downtown and all of OKC is going to be development of Midtown. The huge empty lots the currently separate Broadway and Walker need to be developed. Once that happens, I think Midtown will be that urban district that really stands out in OKC and will be impressive even to people coming from other cities.

I meant to mention that while there are also a ton of great new restaurants (Kitchen no. 324, etc.) I listed off those that are primarily bars or have a large one featured because those are hang-out places.

Restaurants are places that you go to, have your meal and leave. But bars are spots of congregation. And all the new ones seem to be satisfying this hunger of people in OKC to come together in larger groups and interact.

It also strikes me how different people are here in so many ways, but the bar scene is probably the greatest difference between here and California or even most big cities.

In OKC, people interact. Perhaps it's because you are bound to see someone you know, who in turn introduces you to others and on it goes. But even so, I was at Republic last Friday and after my group left, I stayed a bit longer on my own and felt completely comfortable doing that. And sure enough, before long I was talking to all these people at the bar, the bartenders were friendly and it was just really cool.

I never, ever meet new people at bars in L.A. I will meet the friends of the people I meet and that's about it. Everyone stays in their group and unless someone is annoyingly drunk, they usually don't break out of that.

So, this interaction at bars and hang-outs is part of what makes going to all these places so much fun. Most the times I've been out on this trip I started off or ended up by myself and really, I could see myself doing that all the time without even calling people to meet up.

So how do you stay so connected to OKC when you stay away away for 18 months at a time? Especially all the nice pictures you post all the time?

Pete - did you get over to Farmers Market area and if so what are thoughts about the future of that area?

Pete, a good example of what you mentioned about running in to people wherever you go...

A month ago we met up at The Garage in Midtown to watch March Madness. It was the night both OU and OSU played. We live in far NW OKC, but both work in the core. Being there pretty much all night we ran into so many of our friends (outside of the group we were with), all of them from differing parts of town. You don't have to be just an urban resident to enjoy so much of what's going on. People are coming IN from all over. It's great to see.

Pete - did you get over to Farmers Market area and if so what are thoughts about the future of that area?
Check powerhouse thread.

Glad you enjoyed it Pete. Going to H&8th tomorrow? That's what will be truly impressive.

Pete, a good example of what you mentioned about running in to people wherever you go...

A month ago we met up at The Garage in Midtown to watch March Madness. It was the night both OU and OSU played. We live in far NW OKC, but both work in the core. Being there pretty much all night we ran into so many of our friends (outside of the group we were with), all of them from differing parts of town. You don't have to be just an urban resident to enjoy so much of what's going on. People are coming IN from all over. It's great to see.

I literally did the exact same thing that night.

It was so weird, I saw so many people that night. The following morning I played in a scramble in Choctaw and was paired up with two guys who were both there as well, and they were from Norman. Crazy night

Pete, a good example of what you mentioned about running in to people wherever you go...

A month ago we met up at The Garage in Midtown to watch March Madness. It was the night both OU and OSU played. We live in far NW OKC, but both work in the core. Being there pretty much all night we ran into so many of our friends (outside of the group we were with), all of them from differing parts of town. You don't have to be just an urban resident to enjoy so much of what's going on. People are coming IN from all over. It's great to see.

I literally did the exact same thing that night.

It was so weird, I saw so many people that night. The following morning I played in a scramble in Choctaw and was paired up with two guys who were both there as well, and they were from Norman. Crazy night

I think that shows/says a lot about how (unlike how has been commented on about Austin) OKCers aren't afraid of the expanse of the metro. I sure wish that national chains would throw their spreadsheets and flowcharts away when making decisions about whether or not to take a chance on OKC (sorry, Betts -- I prefer local, too, though).

RE: expanse of the metro

I think it all depends where you came from. It's less than 20 minutes for me to drive from my house all the way up in ward 8 to downtown. I'm from Houston, lived in PHX and DFW after that. You drove longer than that to get a LOT of places in those cities and never batted an eye. This city is so accessible (to me, I know the transit honks will hate to hear that ;) ).

Looking back on my time in Charlotte, I can't help but think about all of the things I never bothered to do because they were on the other side of the metro area. I kind of regret it now. I think OKC is pretty accessible because for one, its relatively small, and secondly most things to do are concentrated downtown whereas in Charlotte or even moreso in DFW, things are very multi-polar.

RE: expanse of the metro

I think it all depends where you came from. It's less than 20 minutes for me to drive from my house all the way up in ward 8 to downtown. I'm from Houston, lived in PHX and DFW after that. You drove longer than that to get a LOT of places in those cities and never batted an eye. This city is so accessible (to me, I know the transit honks will hate to hear that ;) ).

To piggyback on this, I feel stuck in my bubble now that I live in Dallas. There's so much to see and do here, but mobility here is such an issue, and you have to factor in traffic no matter what time of day. Just a small story: A Whole Foods in East Dallas has a line of really good smoked BBQ, so a few weeks ago I decided to to try it out. It was only going a 20-30 minute drive and it was on a Saturday so I figured an easy drive...it turned out to be an hour and a half!! The BBQ was awesome. But I have no plans on going back.

In OKC, mobility is not near the issue, and the great areas in the core are centrally located to the vast majority of the metro. One thing I've noticed is suburbanites in OKC are far more supportive of downtown businesses and events compared to larger or even similar sized cities.

In OKC, mobility is not near the issue, and the great areas in the core are centrally located to the vast majority of the metro. One thing I've noticed is suburbanites in OKC are far more supportive of downtown businesses and events compared to larger or even similar sized cities.

I expect this to change somewhat in the next 5-10 years. First, OKC has far fewer people actually living downtown at this moment than most similarly-sized cities. Today, downtown businesses could not be successful without people driving in from the suburbs. Luckily for downtown business owners there isn't currently very much in the way of entertainment in the suburbs so people have to go downtown. The population of downtown OKC should explode over the next decade as the currently announced projects are built, new announcements are made, and infill continues. As this happens, downtown will become more self-sustaining and will be less reliant on people coming in from the suburbs. At the same time, if the Chisholm Creek area develops as anticipated, OKC will finally have a suburban entertainment focused alternative to downtown. It will be interested to see how that changes the dynamic in this town and how the suburbs interact with the core.

At the same time, if the Chisholm Creek area develops as anticipated, OKC will finally have a suburban entertainment focused alternative to downtown. It will be interested to see how that changes the dynamic in this town and how the suburbs interact with the core.

Knowing the suburbanites propensity to complain about traffic and lack of close parking, I expect they will be most displeased with Chisholm Creek. Also, CC will steal from Penn Square long before it impacts the urban core because CC can't replicate the urban experience, which is what most people headed downtown are craving. Does anyone remember the promotional video for CC? It was all filmed downtown, Deep Deuce, Bricktown, and Auto Alley - but then they built big box stores and acres of parking.

Knowing the suburbanites propensity to complain about traffic and lack of close parking, I expect they will be most displeased with Chisholm Creek. Also, CC will steal from Penn Square long before it impacts the urban core because CC can't replicate the urban experience, which is what most people headed downtown are craving. Does anyone remember the promotional video for CC? It was all filmed downtown, Deep Deuce, Bricktown, and Auto Alley - but then they built big box stores and acres of parking.

Actually I believe Chisholm Creek will be perfect for suburbanites if its anything like the typical north Dallas shopping center. It should offer a faux urban experience with plentiful, close-up parking. Many suburbanites complain about parking in downtown OKC today and refuse to walk from Myriad Gardens to Bricktown. It's only going to get "worse" as time goes from the suburban perspective.

Are we tracking and interviewing people using MG who want to go to BT but refuse to go to BT because of the walk or are we just continuing to perpetuate stereotypes and caricatures?

Many suburbanites complain about parking in downtown OKC today and refuse to walk from Myriad Gardens to Bricktown. It's only going to get "worse" as time goes from the suburban perspective.

To be fair, if it continues to be this dangerous to walk around in downtown, it's not going to be just suburbanites who'll refuse to walk anywhere. Almost got killed again today crossing Walnut at 2nd. This is insane. We need to pull a Florence and just ban cars in downtown. Only a matter of time until more pedestrians are killed here.

Two things have to happen in Deep Deuce - 1) Walnut needs to be reduced to 2 lanes and on-street parking added. 2) Oklahoma Ave needs to be connected. And honestly, it wouldn't hurt for NE1st to hang a left at the Wedge and connect to Main St.

To be fair, if it continues to be this dangerous to walk around in downtown, it's not going to be just suburbanites who'll refuse to walk anywhere. Almost got killed again today crossing Walnut at 2nd. This is insane. We need to pull a Florence and just ban cars in downtown. Only a matter of time until more pedestrians are killed here.

To be really fair, I have had to come to fast stops numerous times with walkers crossing against the lights and mid block without regard to traffic. There are idiot drivers and idiot walkers. All of them need to learn how to play nice and safely. And bikers have been the worst...never seeming to stop at signs or lights. Let's call spades spades.

Some of the best walking cities have some of the most harsh penalties for and vigorous enforcement of rules against jaywalking and crossing against lights. Rover is right; everyone needs to follow the rules. However, our biggest problem here is that people driving cars generally feel like they own all aspects of the pedestrian/vehicle shared space, and the built environment provides countless visual cues to support this dangerous behavior. We need to continue to modify the built environment in pedestrian-heavy areas of town to create a balance of power.

As I have mentioned before, we recently began working with the City to (hopefully) time the crosswalks in Bricktown to provide leading pedestrian intervals (LPI), and hope that if accepted this idea can be repurposed elsewhere downtown. Additionally, we are identifying several intersections for all-way stops, and looking to implement a number of other pro-walkability strategies. LPIs and all-way stops are both strongly encouraged by Jeff Speck.


https://vimeo.com/12796930

Pete! You must go journey up to the VAST Bar in the Devon tower at night the Views are breathtaking if you go late enough before they close the restaurant part say about 930 and hang out have a few drinks, then if the restaurant part clears out enough they will let you look out the windows on the dining area of the restaurant if you ask them. They won't let sight see if there is diners still eating. But the Views will blow your mind tonight would be good because there is a baseball game.

Some of the best walking cities have some of the most harsh penalties for and vigorous enforcement of rules against jaywalking and crossing against lights. Rover is right; everyone needs to follow the rules. However, our biggest problem here is that people driving cars generally feel like they own all aspects of the pedestrian/vehicle shared space, and the built environment provides countless visual cues to support this dangerous behavior. We need to continue to modify the built environment in pedestrian-heavy areas of town to create a balance of power.



The timing of the lights is awful here.

Re discipline of walkers and drivers, ironically, I think the worst I observe in the US is in NYC - Manhattan...perhaps the most walkable city in the US. You almost never see jaywalkers, but at every corner it is a duel between pedestrians and cars. Seems like lights hardly matter. Half the time it is a game of Chicken. It is dog-eat-dog. And, just like here, bikers are daredevils. In fact, most of the near accidents I see are bike-pedestrian.

Pete! You must go journey up to the VAST Bar in the Devon tower at night the Views are breathtaking if you go late enough before they close the restaurant part say about 930 and hang out have a few drinks, then if the restaurant part clears out enough they will let you look out the windows on the dining area of the restaurant if you ask them. They won't let sight see if there is diners still eating. But the Views will blow your mind tonight would be good because there is a baseball game.

Not to speak to much for Pete, but his high school class reunion was held at the top banquet hall above Vast last year or the year before.

The timing of the lights is awful here.

It is a damn shame that we don't have automatic crosswalk lighting. It should be "standard equipment" at every intersection. I've seen some recently "renovated" intersections across town that have the light pole, the stoplight pole, and a shorter pole with the crosswalk button that for some ungodly reason pedestrians still have to push to cross a street. It's ridiculous. Not to mention how cluttered the space becomes with all the poles. And as Rover said, the timing is awful. It's just asinine.

Traffic light timing is one of the biggest myths on the planet. Every city tries to do it and it never works. At best, they can sync up a few light on the same street going the same way, but that is about it.

Fort Worth has automatic crosswalk lighting for pedestrians in their downtown and it is great. It's a great, small example of designing a city for people and not cars. I think in the CBD and in Bricktown something like that should be implemented.

Philly makes the automatic walk call also. The great thing with Philly is that the lights change every 15 seconds so there is no reason to jaywalk.

Traffic light timing is one of the biggest myths on the planet. Every city tries to do it and it never works. At best, they can sync up a few light on the same street going the same way, but that is about it.

That's a big deal in urban environments. In heavily congested areas, if you can consistently get by 5-10 lights before stopping, then you move a LOT quicker.

That's a big deal in urban environments. In heavily congested areas, if you can consistently get by 5-10 lights before stopping, then you move a LOT quicker.

I was somewhat impressed by Miami. It's not the urban utopia many of us dream of, but I drove around Miami for 2 days in January. Once you got a green light, you could go about 7-8 lights without hitting a red.

In OKC, lights will stop 20-30 cars randomly to allow one car to go. Then cycle through. It's so inefficient on resources. It's better to hold that one car at idle who is already stopped for an extra 15 seconds to avoid 30 cars idling, and then accelerating again back up to speed.

I live on NW expressway now and see this daily. I will be in a pack of cars, and one car on a side street stops at a crossing and all of us have to come to a grinding halt to allow that one car to cross. It seems as if OKC's lights are too impatient. Like they are looking for a reason to stop traffic at the most inefficient moment.

Traffic light timing is one of the biggest myths on the planet. Every city tries to do it and it never works. At best, they can sync up a few light on the same street going the same way, but that is about it.

They have an entire department in Los Angeles dedicated to signal synchronization and it's made a huge difference:

Signal Synchronization : Department of Transportation : City of Los Angeles (http://ladot.lacity.org/WhatWeDo/Operations/SignalSynchronization/index.htm)

They have an entire department in Los Angeles dedicated to signal synchronization and it's made a huge difference:

Signal Synchronization : Department of Transportation : City of Los Angeles (http://ladot.lacity.org/WhatWeDo/Operations/SignalSynchronization/index.htm)

Yep, but despite what they call it, it isn't automated or synchronized. It requires a team of humans analyzing real-time data and controlling the lights remotely - not much different than just putting a traffic cop at major intersections.

Yep, but it isn't automated or synchronized. It requires a team of humans analyzing real-time data and controlling the lights remotely - not much different than just putting a traffic cop at major intersections.

You didn't say anything in your post about it being automated. You said the whole thing is a myth and 'At best, they can sync up a few light on the same street going the same way, but that is about it.'

So, you have the entire city of L.A. that has a synchronization program and it *is* at least somewhat automated.


The most advanced part of our system is “adaptive”, meaning that traffic signals automatically change timing in response to different travel volumes and patterns at different times of the day.

Next time I am home I'll see if I can find what book it is in, but I have one with a pretty extensive section on the LA system. What was kind of funny is that the guy giving the walk through to the author was arrested and fired because he was manipulating the lights during the Academy Awards to support a local union that was protesting. But like I said, this is a labor intensive operation staffed by an army of people making on-the-fly adjustments using real-time data. Holding a light green for an extra 30 seconds is not synchronization in my book- just manipulation. Synchronization to me means not having to hold a light green in the first place.

Anyhow, we strayed from topic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/us/to-fight-gridlock-los-angeles-synchronizes-every-red-light.html?_r=0

From reading about the LA synchronization system, the human interaction is to induce exceptions based on special events and circumstances. I believe it is possible to temporarily override the automatic synchronization. So the manipulation is the exception, not the way the system normally works. JTF pointed out a firing when the human made wrongful manipulation for an unjustified and personal reason.

To be really fair, I have had to come to fast stops numerous times with walkers crossing against the lights and mid block without regard to traffic. There are idiot drivers and idiot walkers. All of them need to learn how to play nice and safely. And bikers have been the worst...never seeming to stop at signs or lights. Let's call spades spades.

Fair enough - the onus is definitely on pedestrians also play by the rules - and there's far more incentive to do so, given that a pedestrian is never going to win the battle. Hopefully the increase in pedestrians also results in an increase in those who walk and cross appropriately.

Having said that, our city - while it has made significant strides - still has a ways to go. For example on Broadway, pretty sure there are no marked crosswalks between 6th and 10th. So if you want to cross anywhere in between, odds are you're going to play the odds and run across during a gap in traffic, rather than walk 0.2 miles either way to use a crosswalk. While Broadway is nowhere near the speed tunnel it used to be, it's still quite easy to go 35-40 in light traffic. Someone is going to get hit there sooner or later.

There will be a light at 8th St. and Broadway when the streetcar goes in.