View Full Version : Downtown OKC Population Growth



bchris02
02-19-2015, 11:02 AM
4 things to know about downtown Oklahoma City | News OK (http://www.newsok.com/4-things-to-know-about-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/5394548)

Per this article the population of downtown was 5,264 in 2010 and is expected to grow to 5,547 by 2018. Does anybody think that figure is a little low once you factor in all the announced or recently opened residential projects? Just a single development like LIFT, the Metropolitan, the Steelyard, or especially the new Clayco apartment tower should bring more new downtown residents than what this article states. Thoughts?

soondoc
02-19-2015, 11:07 AM
Those numbers are not even remotely accurate, it is almost impossible to not be much higher.

Pete
02-19-2015, 11:28 AM
Yeah, don't know where those numbers came from, but they are way off.

We have over 5,000 apartments and condos built or planned in the next few years:

Downtown Housing Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown+Housing+Summary)

traxx
02-19-2015, 11:51 AM
From the article:


5,264: Population of "greater" downtown Oklahoma City in 2010.

5,547: Expected downtown population by 2018

778: Downtown households (estimated, 2013) with incomes of less than $15,000.

34: Downtown households (estimated, 2013) with incomes of more than $200,000.


So they're predicting the pop in DT to be about 300 people greater than what it was in 2010. Yet the households that they list for 2013 already exceeds that number, especially if you figure some of those households have more than one person.

adaniel
02-19-2015, 11:57 AM
Yeah, don't know where those numbers came from, but they are way off.

We have over 5,000 apartments and condos built or planned in the next few years:

Downtown Housing Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown+Housing+Summary)

A safe number to assume is about 1.5 persons per households. This is the figure for uptown Dallas zip codes

So 5K X 1.5= at least 7,000 people.

Not sure where they got those numbers at all.

Pete
02-19-2015, 12:05 PM
Also, I have no idea how they are defining downtown.

That 5,000 number is just the larger multi-family buildings and does not count all the houses and smaller apartments all over the central core.

NWOKCGuy
02-19-2015, 04:24 PM
It says the source was from the 2010 US Census... I'm pretty sure they don't pay attention to construction projects and most of them weren't announced back then. Not sure why they would even report on this.

bchris02
02-19-2015, 04:29 PM
It says the source was from the 2010 US Census... I'm pretty sure they don't pay attention to construction projects and most of them weren't announced back then. Not sure why they would even report on this.

That was my thoughts. They probably based the projection off of past growth trends which if you look at how downtown OKC grew between 1990 and 2010 an increase of only 300 people probably wouldn't be that far off.

Downtown OKC has come such a long way since 2010 its almost unbelievable.

Just the facts
02-19-2015, 06:11 PM
Reading some of the stories from the Oklahoman employees who recently relocated to their new office I get the feeling that Steve is the only employee who knew downtown existed in any form other than as a backdrop for Thunder games.

OKCRT
02-19-2015, 06:40 PM
So how many residents need to be living downtown before we can say "Big League" 20k? is that a good start?

Motley
02-19-2015, 06:57 PM
San Diego has around 37000 living downtown and a workforce of around 83000. I would say downtown San Diego is near the top of the league and is much larger than OKC.

Downtown San Diego Demographics & Statistics ? Employment, Education, Income Averages, Crime in Downtown San Diego ? Point2 Homes (http://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighborhood/CA/San-Diego/Downtown-San-Diego-Demographics.html)

mkjeeves
02-19-2015, 07:15 PM
Reading some of the stories from the Oklahoman employees who recently relocated to their new office I get the feeling that Steve is the only employee who knew downtown existed in any form other than as a backdrop for Thunder games.

Hard to believe, but there are probably hundreds of thousands of people living in the OKC metro who aren't obsessed with and don't even spend much time thinking about downtown.

ksearls
02-19-2015, 07:43 PM
Also, unless it has changed, the census numbers include the inmate population at the jail ��

bchris02
02-19-2015, 09:13 PM
So how many residents need to be living downtown before we can say "Big League" 20k? is that a good start?

Charlotte has just under 25,000 people living downtown. In terms of downtown vibrancy goes, Charlotte is way ahead of OKC but is behind a lot of other cities. Downtown Memphis has 24,300 living there. I really think that is the level OKC should shoot for so yeah 20k is close to the magic number.

Spartan
02-26-2015, 09:30 PM
I just read that and spent the last half hour looking into downtown living in Memphis. I had no idea that there downtown was so well-preserved.

Spartan
02-26-2015, 09:36 PM
4 things to know about downtown Oklahoma City | News OK (http://www.newsok.com/4-things-to-know-about-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/5394548)

Per this article the population of downtown was 5,264 in 2010 and is expected to grow to 5,547 by 2018. Does anybody think that figure is a little low once you factor in all the announced or recently opened residential projects? Just a single development like LIFT, the Metropolitan, the Steelyard, or especially the new Clayco apartment tower should bring more new downtown residents than what this article states. Thoughts?

This is a pretty representative dose of William/Bill Crum. Because he's such a great journalist, he's going to tell you the 4 things to know about downtown Oklahoma City.

Always asking the right questions and highlighting the most salient points about our city's issues.

Teo9969
02-26-2015, 09:54 PM
This is a pretty representative dose of William/Bill Crum. Because he's such a great journalist, he's going to tell you the 4 things to know about downtown Oklahoma City.

Always asking the right questions and highlighting the most salient points about our city's issues.

:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

bchris02
02-27-2015, 06:13 AM
I just read that and spent the last half hour looking into downtown living in Memphis. I had no idea that there downtown was so well-preserved.

Memphis is a great place. It's dense, urban, vibrant, developed, and has everything you would expect in a city of 1.3 million people. They also have very attractive suburbs for those who prefer suburban living. They have some terrible ghettos as well but one positive is its all concentrated in specific areas.

Urbanized
02-27-2015, 06:59 AM
Memphis has some great fabric downtown for sure, and is a great place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there though. Racial tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife. OKC is not perfect in that regard of course (is anyplace?) but for the most part people of different complexions and backgrounds peacefully co-exist with each other, and in many cases in neighborhoods that are very well-integrated. During my visits to Memphis I found the difference to be pretty incredible.

bchris02
02-27-2015, 07:05 AM
Memphis has some great fabric downtown for sure, and is a great place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there though. Racial tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife. OKC is not perfect in that regard of course (is anyplace?) but for the most part people of different complexions and backgrounds peacefully co-exist with each other, and in many cases in neighborhoods that are very well-integrated. During my visits to Memphis I found the difference to be pretty incredible.

That's true. A lot of the older Southern cities like Memphis, Little Rock, Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, and even Dallas still have significant racial tension that dates way back. OKC having developed more like a Western city is spared from a lot of that though it still exists to some degree.

Pete
02-27-2015, 07:05 AM
Memphis has some great fabric downtown for sure, and is a great place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there though. Racial tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife. OKC is not perfect in that regard of course (is anyplace?) but for the most part people of different complexions and backgrounds peacefully co-exist with each other, and in many cases in neighborhoods that are very well-integrated. During my visits to Memphis I found the difference to be pretty incredible.

I agree completely.

I had a good friend living there who worked for the FBI and I went to visit several times.

It's one of the few cities where I've actually felt unsafe at times.

Urbanized
02-27-2015, 07:19 AM
And I'm not even really talking about feeling unsafe. I mostly mean that when you walk down the same streets as one another you get the feeling that people of different races have no desire whatsoever to speak or interact with those of another, unless forced to by business necessity, etc. And it seems like people are constantly on edge just waiting to be offended by something someone of the other race says or does. That's no way to live, IMO.

adaniel
02-27-2015, 08:44 AM
^
Dad's side is from Memphis and the surrounding area and sadly this is 100% spot on. Sucks because Memphis has some wonderful urban neighborhoods like Harbor Town, South Bluffs, Midtown, etc. Its kind of ironic but the only large scale integrated areas are the suburbs found over the state line in Mississippi.

bchris02
02-27-2015, 09:37 AM
Midtown Memphis is awesome. When I lived in Little Rock I would take regular trips to Memphis and would usually hang out there. I have always thought Uptown/23rd in OKC could become like that one day.

ljbab728
02-28-2015, 11:02 PM
An update by Steve on jobs and related population in downtown OKC.

Study finds jobs are moving downtown in Oklahoma City and other metro areas | News OK (http://newsok.com/study-finds-jobs-are-moving-downtown-in-oklahoma-city-and-other-metro-areas/article/5397367)


A new study shows Oklahoma City is part of a new national trend where a half century of job growth in sprawling suburbia is coming to an end while employment is surging downtown.
Oklahoma City’s downtown residential population also increased, from 6,765 in 2000 to 7,475 in 2013. More than a thousand additional residences are under construction and set to open in the next two years.

adaniel
03-01-2015, 03:10 PM
Interesting.

I was able to find the actual report here. Its a good read if you have the time: http://cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Surging-City-Center-Jobs.pdf

OKC is actually one of the better performers in this study. Only Charlotte saw a larger percentage jump of employment in its core. And regionally, only Denver and Austin have a higher percentage of core employment.

The full report makes a good point that the type of jobs found in the core (professional services, utilities, management, arts, and surprisingly, mining, which would include oil and gas extraction) have recovered strongly compared to jobs found in the the burbs (wholesale trade, construction, manufacturing).

bchris02
03-01-2015, 05:39 PM
The study only counts through 2011, and OKC has come a long, long ways since then in terms of downtown revitalization. Charlotte was at the peak of its building boom between 2007-11. They are still growing quite briskly but likely slower than they once were. I really wouldn't be surprised if the population of downtown OKC doubles if not more between 2010 and 2020, considering everything that has already been announced along with yet to be announced developments.

HOT ROD
03-02-2015, 03:39 AM
again, the population numbers appear suspect. Only 700 people added between 2000 and 2013???

It'd be more believable and perhaps accurate if the delta compared 2010 to 2013 but even then 700 increase is still suspect given all of the recent housing additions. Downtown OKC may very well have/had 7500 residents in 2013, but I'd suspect 700 people added since 2012 would be more accurate picture of its growth. Thoughts?

adaniel
03-02-2015, 08:50 AM
At first glance it seems highly suspect, but it exhibits a pattern that has been seen in other dense cities.

Lots of what are now renovated spaces in both downtown and surrounding neighborhoods were crowded multi family dwellings and slummy apartments. What replaced them where either businesses, small apartments, or single family dwellings, usually only with 1-3 occupants. Even though the area is gentrifying, the net effect on the population count would be negative. FWIW the census tracts that cover Gatewood and Mesta Park actually showed declines in populations between 2000-10, but nobody would argue those neighborhoods are actually declining.

I would also argue that OKC is really only in Year 3 of the DT housing boom. I lived in Midtown until last year and while things are humming now, development had pretty much stalled out in the core until LEVEL opened up. So it may not be reflected into the total population counts. Give it a year or two and that number will be much higher.

bchris02
03-02-2015, 09:12 AM
^^^ I don't think downtown OKC's growth pattern can be compared with dense cities because this city is basically building a downtown from scratch. Midtown was a complete wasteland five years ago. I recently came across some pictures from 2011, a year before I moved back, and couldn't believe the difference. Most of the development in downtown OKC that is contributing to population growth is happening on surface parking or empty fields rather than gentrifying lesser developments. This city is in a unique situation because of how dire the situation downtown was compared to other cities. Things are set up nicely for some very high growth percentages over the next 5-10 years.

Spartan
03-03-2015, 09:28 PM
^^^ I don't think downtown OKC's growth pattern can be compared with dense cities because this city is basically building a downtown from scratch. Midtown was a complete wasteland five years ago. I recently came across some pictures from 2011, a year before I moved back, and couldn't believe the difference. Most of the development in downtown OKC that is contributing to population growth is happening on surface parking or empty fields rather than gentrifying lesser developments. This city is in a unique situation because of how dire the situation downtown was compared to other cities. Things are set up nicely for some very high growth percentages over the next 5-10 years.

That's not true. Yes, we tore down a lot. However, we also still have a lot. For now....