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UnFrSaKn
01-04-2015, 02:37 PM
I created a thread on Portland and mentioned I would do the same for Denver. I know Denver much better than my one visit to Portland. I have done quite a bit of video and photos the times I have been there.


http://vimeo.com/22867208
Denver Trip - Downtown Denver (April 19 2011) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/22867208)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157630471329652/

If you saw the Portland thread, this is the kind of thing you see in "established" cities. We will never have this. What's left in the central business district will be gone and no one who owns what's left cares to keep it. Not counting other districts.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8003/7501131100_ba543a258f_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7263/7501141168_945791b448_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7501138922_b889c79d21_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8282/7501134926_74ee5599b0_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8434/7501107100_111be1f2bb_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7261/7501105706_f3fc16110e_b.jpg

BG918
01-04-2015, 02:53 PM
Great pictures! Denver has a great blog that tracks all of the new development downtown and in surrounding urban neighborhoods. Check it out: DenverInfill Blog (http://denverinfill.com/blog/)

tfvc.org
01-04-2015, 02:57 PM
I was born and raised in Denver (Well the Western suburbs of Arvada and Littleton). Makes me homesick. Right around the time that I left they started investing money in the Lodo and area just NW by the river. It used to be a bad part of the neighborhood that no one dared go into. They cleaned that area up and now is full of fun restaurants, breweries and the like. The amusement park Eliches even moved their park into the area from the Lakewood suburb and they built their professional baseball park in the area. Denver is not the same city when I left in 1997. They have had a real renascence and the city proper and suburbs have grown. The last couple times I was there I don't even recognize the Chatfield/Columbine/Ken Karyl areas I spent most of my youth in. Heck even Golden is not the same quaint little town anymore.

bluedogok
01-04-2015, 04:22 PM
The area that we live in (between Aurora and Centennial) was built out in the late 90's. There wasn't much out here before then....of course Centennial and Lone Tree probably didn't exist when you lived here. A friend had a condo off C-470 & Quincy, I was up here not long after they moved in around 1994, there was a little strip center and gas station. When I came back to visit in 2000 the whole area off his balcony had been built out.

My office is a block from Coors Field in LoDo.

DenverPoke
01-04-2015, 06:17 PM
Nice photos! Denver has certainly become a much more vibrant city in the 6 years I've lived here, it truly gets better every day. I think The Union Station renovation is going to be a huge catalyst to move the city forward at an even faster pace. Next time you are coming to Denver let us know and I'm sure a few locals would be glad to show you around.

tfvc.org
01-04-2015, 06:24 PM
The area that we live in (between Aurora and Centennial) was built out in the late 90's. There wasn't much out here before then....of course Centennial and Lone Tree probably didn't exist when you lived here. A friend had a condo off C-470 & Quincy, I was up here not long after they moved in around 1994, there was a little strip center and gas station. When I came back to visit in 2000 the whole area off his balcony had been built out.

My office is a block from Coors Field in LoDo.

The area that is now E-470 and the hwy leading up to the airport was all farms when I lived there. I had been to a few shows at Fiddlers Green and there wasn't much on the East side of 25, just DTC and a few other offices I think, at least that was the impression I got when I got lost trying to find it the first time. Those highways really helped with the suburban sprawl, plus the influx of people from Ca moving there in the early to mid 90s. The nice thing about Denver is they also have a large urban population as well. They have a good balance.

bluedogok
01-04-2015, 07:16 PM
The area that is now E-470 and the hwy leading up to the airport was all farms when I lived there. I had been to a few shows at Fiddlers Green and there wasn't much on the East side of 25, just DTC and a few other offices I think, at least that was the impression I got when I got lost trying to find it the first time. Those highways really helped with the suburban sprawl, plus the influx of people from Ca moving there in the early to mid 90s. The nice thing about Denver is they also have a large urban population as well. They have a good balance.
My friends condo was on the other side, the Morrison side of 470. Now he lives in Aurora, his contract ended at Rocky Flats (environmental cleanup) and he got tired of the commute from one side to the other. We live near E-470 & Quincy, we bought out here because of price and resale since we want to build a house somewhere, just haven't figured out where. We are just tired of working in LoDo and dealing with the whole downtown, if we were twenty years younger we would probably like it.

HOT ROD
01-05-2015, 12:24 AM
brings back memories. I used to work in the Qwest skyscraper at 1801 California, 45th floor back in the mid-1990s.

I remember Stapleton airport closed (my folks were the ones who migrated the fiber for the FAA) and other changes like the light rail was just starting then with the initial line from Union Station going south toward Auraria campus (iirc) and then towards I-25. I fondly recall denver's exceptional urban bike trails along cherry creek - really like bike freeways, as I used to ride them nearly daily with my road bike as a stress reliever after day in the office.

Good times even back then :)

HOT ROD
01-05-2015, 12:27 AM
yes, I also fondly remember the rise of LoDo and when Coors Field was built when Denver got MLB. Just amazing that was nearly 20 years ago now.

Chicken In The Rough
01-05-2015, 12:47 PM
The Denver Union Station project is among the best urban renewal projects I have ever seen. I pass through it every morning. The city spent a great deal on it, but I'm sure the investment will pay them back ten fold over the next few years. It has already sparked a huge amount of investment. Of course, the economic situations are quite different, but OKC should study Denver's path. I see the cities on very similar trajectories; but at different time periods.

Anonymous.
01-05-2015, 01:18 PM
Nice photos. Love their downtown's appeal. The streetlights are so interesting. Wish OKC had such flavor.

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/a4/8c/0c/the-pretty-street-lights.jpg

tfvc.org
01-05-2015, 03:00 PM
My friends condo was on the other side, the Morrison side of 470. Now he lives in Aurora, his contract ended at Rocky Flats (environmental cleanup) and he got tired of the commute from one side to the other. We live near E-470 & Quincy, we bought out here because of price and resale since we want to build a house somewhere, just haven't figured out where. We are just tired of working in LoDo and dealing with the whole downtown, if we were twenty years younger we would probably like it.

I worked at Tony Rigatonis in Morrison and Golden. The Golden one is now gone, which isn't tragic or surprising. The owner who ran that one can be compared to Amy of Amy's Baking Company. I really like the West side of Denver Suburbia and if I ever move back will probably live in that side again. I really miss Fat Tire and Railyard Ale. Denver made me really spoiled when it comes to beer and hardly drink beer anymore because of Oklahoma's beer laws and the choices here. Also the West side is protected from the mountains and foothils and doesn't get as much snow or any tornadoes that the East side gets.

bluedogok
01-05-2015, 09:01 PM
I worked at Tony Rigatonis in Morrison and Golden. The Golden one is now gone, which isn't tragic or surprising. The owner who ran that one can be compared to Amy of Amy's Baking Company. I really like the West side of Denver Suburbia and if I ever move back will probably live in that side again. I really miss Fat Tire and Railyard Ale. Denver made me really spoiled when it comes to beer and hardly drink beer anymore because of Oklahoma's beer laws and the choices here. Also the West side is protected from the mountains and foothils and doesn't get as much snow or any tornadoes that the East side gets.
We had about 9" of snow in the past week on the SE side of town, this side was a bit more affordable and was selling a bit faster. Friends lived over here which is why we chose the area. When my friend moved up here in 1991 from OKC/Tulsa he was in Westminster (104th & Wadsworth) because of his job at Rocky Flats, that area changed a lot over the years, his apartments were about the edge of development just south of the Jeffco airport in the early 90's. Changing jobs to Tower & I-70 gave him a reason to move east.

We have thought about eventually moving out to Breck or Frisco.

Pete
01-06-2015, 06:39 PM
Thanks for sharing, Will.

I've said several times I think Denver is the best model for OKC: No navigable water, pretty flat (the city itself), prominent energy industry, etc.

And their downtown is fantastic. One big difference is that i know even back in the 80's when most other cities had very little downtown life, Denver was still very robust. So, they never had to claw out of a deep hole like OKC and a bunch of others.

Still, a lot of what they've done can be applied in OKC, unlike very unique settings like Portland, Seattle and some much older cities.

tfvc.org
01-08-2015, 09:05 PM
Thanks for sharing, Will.

I've said several times I think Denver is the best model for OKC: No navigable water, pretty flat (the city itself), prominent energy industry, etc.

And their downtown is fantastic. One big difference is that i know even back in the 80's when most other cities had very little downtown life, Denver was still very robust. So, they never had to claw out of a deep hole like OKC and a bunch of others.

Still, a lot of what they've done can be applied in OKC, unlike very unique settings like Portland, Seattle and some much older cities.

Some of my early childhood memories were of going downtown to do something, especially around the holidays with the tree festival they have to the lights of the capital to the 16th street mall. Even living in the suburbs. I never felt like there was a urban vs suburban feel between the two. I really need to go back and revisit my old haunts and see how it has grown. Heck Denver even has it's own Wax Trax. There was a time when I wanted to live in one of the lofts in LoDo, but I never could afford it as a cook making $8 an hour. I always felt like Denver was a nice city and if it wasn't for the cold and snow I would move back.

bluedogok
01-08-2015, 09:33 PM
We prefer the occasional cold/snow over the persistent 100+ temps and 50% humidity in Austin.

DenverPoke
10-23-2015, 01:35 PM
Thanks for sharing, Will.

I've said several times I think Denver is the best model for OKC: No navigable water, pretty flat (the city itself), prominent energy industry, etc.

And their downtown is fantastic. One big difference is that i know even back in the 80's when most other cities had very little downtown life, Denver was still very robust. So, they never had to claw out of a deep hole like OKC and a bunch of others.

Still, a lot of what they've done can be applied in OKC, unlike very unique settings like Portland, Seattle and some much older cities.

Actually Denver had their own "urban renewal" issue back in the 70's where 27 contiguous blocks were destroyed, including many beautiful historic buildings. The city still has WAY too many under-utilized or vacant lots.

Check out this aerial from 1976 (pre-16th Street Mall) showing some of this "renewal":

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7076/7074336875_d9924d4b4d_b.jpg

From the 50s:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8347/8230809479_488307b4a9_o.jpg

Anyway, I'm thinking of keeping this thread updated with Denver development as some others do for their locales.

Plutonic Panda
10-23-2015, 02:12 PM
^^ I would love to see that.

TexanOkie
10-23-2015, 02:41 PM
Another good resource on Denver development and neighborhoods is the Denver Cityscape website. I have no idea who maintains it, but the photos and descriptions are almost like tours. Denver Cityscape (http://www.denver-cityscape.com/)

BG918
10-23-2015, 03:19 PM
Another good resource on Denver development and neighborhoods is the Denver Cityscape website. I have no idea who maintains it, but the photos and descriptions are almost like tours. Denver Cityscape (http://www.denver-cityscape.com/)

Also Denver Urban Architecture Blog (http://denverurbanreview.com)

CCOKC
10-25-2015, 03:07 PM
Yes please to the Denver updates. I had only driven through Denver before 2 years ago and have been there 3 times so far this year alone. I really like Denver! I went to the Union Station with a local this summer. It was her first time there since the renovation and I was so glad I was there to see her face. It so reminded me of the first time I saw the Skirvin after the renovation as there were tears in her eyes and she was welling with pride.

DenverPoke
10-26-2015, 09:04 AM
Yes please to the Denver updates. I had only driven through Denver before 2 years ago and have been there 3 times so far this year alone. I really like Denver! I went to the Union Station with a local this summer. It was her first time there since the renovation and I was so glad I was there to see her face. It so reminded me of the first time I saw the Skirvin after the renovation as there were tears in her eyes and she was welling with pride.

Glad you enjoyed your visits. Union Station has made the city proud. It isn't often you are able to see an entire urban neighborhood built from scratch.

Here is an aerial showing the neighborhood as construction was in full swing on the canopy and wing buildings.

http://www.rockymountainaerials.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Union-Station-Denver__.jpg

All lots are now completed, under construction, or have projects anticipated to begin in 2016.

Here are 4 proposed projects to begin construction in 2016:

19-story condo building with 345 units
http://www.denver-cityscape.com/images/1700Wewatta93015-1.jpg

19-story office tower
http://denverurbanreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/A_16thCorner-650x500.jpg

510 units in 2 buildings, 12-story and 24-story
http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2015-10-17_17th-chestnut-rendering3.jpg


11-story Hilton Garden Inn
http://denverurbanreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/View-1_with-logo.jpg

Once these are completed the neighborhood should be fully built-out.

Edit: Sorry for the megasized images, I will correct going forward.

DenverPoke
10-27-2015, 11:18 AM
RTD announces Union Station-to-DIA rail line will open April 22, 2016 - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29009394/rtd-announces-union-station-dia-rail-line-will)

Rendering of the soon to be open DIA Westin hotel and transit center:
http://static1.gensler.com/uploads/hero_element/4446/thumb_desktop/thumbs/project_westin-dia_02_1400708191_1024x576.jpg

DenverPoke
10-27-2015, 02:22 PM
Crazy real estate market here. 42nd consecutive month that home prices have set a new record.

Case-Shiller: Denver ties S.F. for No. 1 (http://www.denverrealestatewatch.com/2015/10/27/case-shiller-denver-ties-for-1st-place/#comments)

DenverPoke
10-30-2015, 09:55 AM
Gaylord Resort and Conference Center near DIA

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2015/1029/20151029__AuroraGaylordResort~p1.jpg:


Aurora Gaylord Rockies to employ 10,000 during construction - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_29042699/aurora-gaylord-rockies-employ-10-000-during-construction)

BG918
10-30-2015, 10:32 AM
LOL at that rendering. The Front Range is 30 miles away and the hotel will be surrounded by treeless plains by the airport. Missed opportunity not having a stop on the commuter rail line though it could be added in the future I guess, since the line will run just to the north of it.

DenverPoke
11-12-2015, 03:59 PM
New project by Shea Properties breaking ground in December. 29-story apartment tower and 9-story office building.

http://www.sheaproperties.com/uploads/propertyphoto/image/Office%20Corner%202.jpg

DenverPoke
11-12-2015, 04:10 PM
8-story 277-unit slated to begin soon in booming RiverNorth District.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a162/fritzdude72/pic%203100%20brighton_zps2yjwuwqq.jpg

DenverPoke
11-12-2015, 04:19 PM
AMLI is developing a 304-unit apartment building in the Central Platte Valley. Should be breaking ground early 2016.

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2015-07-31_AMLIRivGreenRendering-01.jpg

mugofbeer
11-12-2015, 04:30 PM
Is the Gaylord still going to happen? I thought it was put on hold because the couldn't get a subsidy.

BG918
11-12-2015, 09:24 PM
Is the Gaylord still going to happen? I thought it was put on hold because the couldn't get a subsidy.

It's happening, they've already started site work. At 1500 rooms and well over a million square feet it will be one of the largest hotels under construction in the country.

DenverPoke
11-13-2015, 06:50 AM
Here is a great shot of the 22-story 1401 Lawrence office building currently under construction with Larimer Square in the foreground. The 40-story office development by Hines (1144 15th St) is also currently under construction about a block away.

(Photo by Ryan Dravitz at DenverInfill.com)

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/2015-11-12_1401Lawrence-06-1024x683.jpg

UdonNoodles
11-15-2015, 11:13 PM
Recently moved from OKC to Denver. I'm so happy here, but Interested to keep this thread alive for news and updates - for the purpose of comparison and contrast on urban development. The future is bright for both cities.

UdonNoodles
11-15-2015, 11:28 PM
Hey OKCTalk - would there be any interest for me to post news and updates on this thread for Denver? I could post news, updates and photos solely for the purpose of urban development compare and contrast? I'm a recent transplant from OKC to Denver.

Pete
11-16-2015, 05:53 AM
Hey OKCTalk - would there be any interest for me to post news and updates on this thread for Denver? I could post news, updates and photos solely for the purpose of urban development compare and contrast? I'm a recent transplant from OKC to Denver.

That would be awesome. Thanks.

DenverPoke
11-16-2015, 08:05 AM
Hey OKCTalk - would there be any interest for me to post news and updates on this thread for Denver? I could post news, updates and photos solely for the purpose of urban development compare and contrast? I'm a recent transplant from OKC to Denver.

Go for it, welcome to Denver! I've been posting a few updates on projects currently in the planning stages, but very little of what is under-construction. Denver is really booming right now.

Feel free to drop me a note if you have any questions about the city.

tfvc.org
11-16-2015, 04:40 PM
I would love to hear news and see the growth of Denver as well, I was born and raised in the suburbs until my early 20s. (1997). I think I heard that they were trying to get 5 points cleaned up and fancy, did this happen?

DenverPoke
11-16-2015, 05:57 PM
I would love to hear news and see the growth of Denver as well, I was born and raised in the suburbs until my early 20s. (1997). I think I heard that they were trying to get 5 points cleaned up and fancy, did this happen?

They've been talking about that for years but movement for once there are actually projects underway on the Welton St. corridor. The old Rossonian is set to be developed with attached residential and office space.

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-06-18_RossonianRendering.png

And another is planned next door:

http://www.denver-cityscape.com/images/2560_Welton-42115.jpg

Five Points is very far along in the gentrification cycle, There is still some riff-raff around but for the most part its pretty safe and homes go in $600K+ range.

River North (along Brighton north of Coors Field) is actually the area that is REALLY booming these days.

Dubya61
11-24-2015, 12:26 PM
The multiple textures and media make those buildings very interesting.

DenverPoke
11-25-2015, 08:00 AM
Nice photo of Skyhouse Denver under construction with Brown Palace next door.

(courtesy of DenverUrbanReview)

http://denverurbanreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IMG_4840-HDR-1024x717.jpg

DenverPoke
11-25-2015, 08:05 AM
Potential new office and hotel development being marketed but nothing firm at this time. This block has had high hopes for quite some time, so this iteration is rather disappointing.

(Block162.com)

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/560acb10e4b07dc30d2da6f3/560ad0cee4b0b5edb9ec6c7c/560b0e07e4b067a54c326efe/1443713946501/Block_162_Vw_1.jpg?format=1000w

HangryHippo
11-25-2015, 04:13 PM
I'd kill for that to be built on the Stage Center block.

DenverPoke
11-25-2015, 07:03 PM
I'd kill for that to be built on the Stage Center block.

Agreed, it would be a great fit for OKC's Stage Center... or pretty much anywhere in Denver for that matter. The developer is very well regarded here in Denver and he made it be known that he wanted to leave a legacy that the city would be proud of at this location (a prominent spot between the convention center and 16th St. Mall). At one point there was a 1,000 ft+ observation tower involved in the project so to be marketing this is a bit of a letdown.

mugofbeer
11-25-2015, 07:08 PM
Hey OKCTalk - would there be any interest for me to post news and updates on this thread for Denver? I could post news, updates and photos solely for the purpose of urban development compare and contrast? I'm a recent transplant from OKC to Denver.

Welcome! I think you will find half a dozen or so of us in Denver that still keep up with OKC. Even living here, i had not heard of some of the projects on the thread.

BG918
11-26-2015, 03:56 PM
Agreed, it would be a great fit for OKC's Stage Center... or pretty much anywhere in Denver for that matter. The developer is very well regarded here in Denver and he made it be known that he wanted to leave a legacy that the city would be proud of at this location (a prominent spot between the convention center and 16th St. Mall). At one point there was a 1,000 ft+ observation tower involved in the project so to be marketing this is a bit of a letdown.

Are you talking about Shames and Evan Makovsky? They were the ones with the grand ideas for this site. They sold that property to a different developer who is proposing this latest iteration. I actually prefer this to the tacky observation tower.

DenverPoke
11-27-2015, 10:23 AM
Are you talking about Shames and Evan Makovsky? They were the ones with the grand ideas for this site. They sold that property to a different developer who is proposing this latest iteration. I actually prefer this to the tacky observation tower.

Yes, I was referring to Makovsky. I wasn't aware they sold that property off, very interesting.

I wasn't a big fan of the observation tower either, but I was hoping they would pull off something unique. Oh well, even as proposed it will be great to remove that eyesore of a parking lot.

DenverPoke
12-21-2015, 08:16 AM
A few new projects in the pipeline:

142-unit apartment building in Union Station by Greystar:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/ptownsnwbrdr/Ascent-01_zpsbngqlpwd.jpg


175-unit apartment building in Capitol Hill by SmithJones:

http://denverurbanreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-19-at-12.34.20-AM-650x500.jpg

359-unit building by Trammell Crow in Arapahoe Square:
http://denver-cityscape.com/images/AlexanArapahoeSquare111015-1.jpg

Mixed-use development at 16th/Market with 195 residential units, 90,000 sq/ft office space and 90,000 sq/ft retail:

http://denver-cityscape.com/images/1601Market11215-1.jpg

DenverPoke
12-21-2015, 11:35 AM
Updated story and rendering for Market Street Station above:

Market Street Station sold for micro apartments, office, retail - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_29292486/market-street-station-sold-micro-apartments-office-retail)

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2015/1221/20151221__market_street_station_rendering~p1.jpg

DenverPoke
12-29-2015, 06:58 AM
Update on Downtown Housing projects since 2010 (via DenverInfill):

They quit tracking the smaller projects so there are several hundred more units also under construction/planned.

Downtown Denver Residential Projects: December 2015 Update DenverInfill Blog (http://denverinfill.com/blog/2015/12/downtown-denver-residential-projects-december-2015-update.html)

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2015-12-28_Downtown-Denver-Residential-Projects-Summary-December-2015.jpg

Pete
12-29-2015, 12:15 PM
^

Thanks for that.

Denver has about 15,000 units completed, under construction or proposed.

OKC has about 5,200.

Considering the Denver MSA is only about double our size, it goes to show that we should be able to support much more in the way of downtown housing.

bchris02
12-29-2015, 12:35 PM
Part of what is driving the construction boom in Denver is the area is, like Austin and Portland, very popular for educated, progressive, upwardly mobile millennials who want to live in urban environments. People are flocking there in droves. I am not sure 15,000 new units will be enough to keep up with the demand there.

I think somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 units is the sweet spot for OKC.

Pete
12-29-2015, 12:48 PM
I think somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 units is the sweet spot for OKC.

Not even close.

From a post I made on LIFT not long ago:


I was talking with someone from ULI last weekend and he mentioned the general rule of thumb that most newer, sprawl cities (like OKC, Dallas, etc.) should expect to have about 2% of their population living downtown.

Doing the math, that means OKC could easily support about 25,000. If you consult our Downtown Housing Summary, you'll see there are less than 5,000 units built, under construction or with solid plans. Multiply that by 1.5 residents per unit and you get to 7,500.

So, even after everything now planned is built and occupied, there will be the need and demand for more than 2 X what is already complete.

And developers in OKC know this and most of them are planning to build lots more, despite what they may say publicly. There are absolutely tons of residential projects in the pipeline and I only see that activity increasing.

And they will all be quickly absorbed.

DenverPoke
12-29-2015, 02:49 PM
^

Thanks for that.

Denver has about 15,000 units completed, under construction or proposed.

OKC has about 5,200.

Considering the Denver MSA is only about double our size, it goes to show that we should be able to support much more in the way of downtown housing.

To further your point, the Denver #s are just since 2010. The area encompasses probably close to 70,000 people, which at 1/2 the MSA would put OKC at about 35k.

I will add that vacancy rates are on the rise in the core, you can certainly build too much, too fast. There are only so many folks that are willing to pay the premiums to live in/near downtown.

Pete
12-29-2015, 02:56 PM
^

Part of the rise in vacancy is no doubt due to the lagging nature of commercial real estate.

You can only get loans for projects where there has been a recent history of success, so once there is a good run of successful developments, the financial floodgates open and everyone rides that wave.

It's exactly why there is this constant boom and bust cycle in office buildings, shopping centers and other commercial projects.

You can see it happening right now with hotels in OKC because financing is currently very easy to get.

sooner88
12-29-2015, 03:02 PM
^

Part of the rise in vacancy is no doubt due to the lagging nature of commercial real estate.

You can only get loans for projects where there has been a recent history of success, so once there is a good run of successful developments, the financial floodgates open and everyone rides that wave.

It's exactly why there is this constant boom and bust cycle in office buildings, shopping centers and other commercial projects.

You can see it happening right now with hotels in OKC because financing is currently very easy to get.

Right, banks become more comfortable with specific industries or subsections (i.e. multifamily, hotels, etc.) the more comps they have. The rent rolls from these recent multifamily complexes that have opened or are coming online soon will allow the banks to underwrite and become more comfortable with these types of projects. This will only open up more doors for future development.

bchris02
12-29-2015, 03:25 PM
I will add that vacancy rates are on the rise in the core, you can certainly build too much, too fast. There are only so many folks that are willing to pay the premiums to live in/near downtown.

Are vacancy rates on the rise in Denver or in OKC?

I think 25,000 new units in downtown OKC would be incredible if the market can support it. I think after the streetcar is complete and downtown offers basic amenities such as a grocery store, demand will only increase more.

DenverPoke
12-29-2015, 04:50 PM
Are vacancy rates on the rise in Denver or in OKC?

I think 25,000 new units in downtown OKC would be incredible if the market can support it. I think after the streetcar is complete and downtown offers basic amenities such as a grocery store, demand will only increase more.

Downtown Denver, supply has gone way up but no downward pressure on pricing as of yet. The opposite actually so far, prices have been increasing 10-15% YOY.

I don't think OKC can support anywhere near 25,000 new units. I think getting 30k people in the core in the next decade or 2 would be a great start.

Pete
12-29-2015, 04:57 PM
I don't think OKC can support anywhere near 25,000 new units. I think getting 30k people in the core in the next decade or 2 would be a great start.

Not all at once, no.

But over the next 20-25 years? Absolutely. Plenty of room for infill and tons of amenities with a lot more coming and soon.

Just wait until the streetcar is implemented, the live music venues open, we get a full-fledged grocery store, the MAPS 3 park is fully functional, the dozens of new restaurants and bars already in the works open, etc., etc.

Downtowns are the polar opposite of the suburbs: More units build critical mass and attract even more, as opposed to tract homes which merely just keep slicing up the same predictable pie of demand.

DenverPoke
12-29-2015, 05:47 PM
Not all at once, no.

But over the next 20-25 years? Absolutely. Plenty of room for infill and tons of amenities with a lot more coming and soon.

Just wait until the streetcar is implemented, the live music venues open, we get a full-fledged grocery store, the MAPS 3 park is fully functional, the dozens of new restaurants and bars already in the works open, etc., etc.

Downtowns are the polar opposite of the suburbs: More units build critical mass and attract even more, as opposed to tract homes which merely just keep slicing up the same predictable pie of demand.

Yes I was referring to the more near term. Over 25 years it's certainly possible, but that is still an average of 1k each year, there will undoubtedly be lean years ahead where very little is being built. As land gets more expensive and developers are forced to go more vertical you are probably talking 3-4 towers per. year

DenverPoke
12-30-2015, 08:28 AM
Following up on the residential report, here is a development map for Office/Hotel/Civic projects (via DenverInfill):

Completed/UC Office projects total about 3.4 million sf. About 2,900 hotel rooms have been completed/UC.

http://denverinfill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2015-12-29_Downtown-Denver-NonResidential-Projects-Summary-December-2015.jpg