Checked out Batesline this morning and almost lost my Cap'n Crunch I was laughing so hard.

Go to www.batesline.com and read Arena: An ungracious beginning.

Then scroll down and peruse Reviving downtown: the latest misguided attempt? At the bottom of this entry is a link to a "very intelligent discussion of downtown revitalization" that is happening on Tulsanow.org. Click on the link and read through the posts. It starts off well and degenerates into a lengthy explanation of why Bricktown is "DEAD".:tweeted:

Please, don't reply to the topic and start arguing as it isn't necessary. However, Michael Bates does have quite a popular site and it's never good to have such bad pub be justified by being deemed "intelligent". Just read and smile because it really is funny and laughter is good for the soul.

Taco Bell?? Where is a Taco Bell in Bricktown... sheesh, you would think Bricktown had not one person walking around - they are just trying to stir up a debate. We know what we have here and we are proud of Bricktown.

I had to call that guy out for making that crap up about Taco Bell... unbelievable. I am glad that someone else found that ridiculous thread.

Anyone who says Bricktown is dead simply hasn't been there. That's just odd.

Anyone who wants to see a dead downtown needs to go to downtown Tulsa.

Anyone who says Bricktown is dead simply hasn't been there. That's just odd.

Very true. Try going down there on Friday or Saturday night or an event night, THEN tell me Brcktown is dying. After that, if you still think it is dying, I have an Orange bridge connecting San Francisco and Sausalito I will sell you at a bargin.

Yeah, and pigs fly. Wait a minute! :)

Anyone who wants to see a dead downtown needs to go to downtown Tulsa.

Tulsa has more people living downtown than OKC.




Anyone who says Bricktown is dead simply hasn't been there.

Not dead.

I see it more as a surburban-style redneck theme park.

Then you should feel right at home.

Oh, I forgot. You guys can't take any criticizm.

Rah! Rah! Bricktown is the best thing since sliced bread.

Rah! Rah! The canal looks real.

I'm sorry, but you guys have done it all wrong.

At least we've done it which is more than some unamed cities can boast.

Constructive criticism is one thing but name calling never goes over well.

I wonder why all of these silly development people are continuing to build in Bricktown with it being so 'dead' and all. I guess all of us rednecks just keep flocking to the big city to spend our money....




For the Bricktown area, it’s only going to get better
Steve Lackmeyer

The entertainment district’s growth is leading a revival of downtown. For 20 years, Jim Brewer has been telling anyone who will listen that great things are in store for Bricktown. The entertainment district’s newest attractions, including a 16-screen theater, are drawing bigger crowds than ever. And Brewer says the best is yet to come.

At least three Bricktown hotels are being considered by developers, with construction scheduled to start on an Embassy Suites this year.

Brewer is negotiating with a national retailer to open a store in the Santa Fe Depot’s loading docks, while the owner of the former Stewart Steel property is proceeding with a retail/residential project dubbed “The Steel Yard.”

It’s looks like we’ve moved a lot,” Brewer said. “But we’re just starting to crawl. You won’t believe what it will be five years from now. Just look at what has happened in the past five.”

Twenty years ago, Brewer was one of just a handful of developers trying to revive the then-bankrupt venture.

Now, at least a dozen property owners and developers are negotiating deals for hotels, shops and housing.

Frank Sims, director of the Bricktown Association, predicts “a couple of major announcements” in the next couple months. Sims said Bricktown’s growth is fueling a revival throughout downtown Oklahoma City

&#x20It’s very contagious,” Sims said. ‘It’s the attitude. We’re seeing record numbers of people in Bricktown, and that is equating to increased cross traffic to the Myriad Gardens, the Oklahoma City Museum of Art and the Oklahoma City National Memorial.”

Sims said retail already is making a successful return to downtown. The Painted Door gift shop and Shek, a clothing store, are the newest additions to retail that includes Bass Pro Shops and four gift shops along the Bricktown Canal.

In the early 1990s, Brewer was one of Bricktown’s busiest developers and promoters. At one time, he operated O’Eriens, one of Bricktown’s earliest success stories. He did deals with Zios and the now-closed Varsity Grill, and built the Bricktown Coca-Cola Events Center.

But Brewer no longer is the biggest player in Bricktown.

Fellow developer Randy Hogan lured Sonic, Bass Pro Shops and Harkins Theaes, and his latest coup is a restaurant and music hall being built by recording artist and hometown celebrity Toby Keith.

An equally ambitious plan is being crafted along the northeast edge of Bricktown with the “Steel Yard.”

Robert Meinders, a former executive with American Floral Services, began buying the properties along East Sheridan Avenue last year.

Con Rice of Egressive Commercial Realty, which brokered the deal, said more land must be acquired before development plans are unveiled. Rice said the property comes with plenty of room for parking and space for a mix of retail and housing.

As he (Meinders) accumulates property, it will be then that he’ll decide what to do with the whole thing,” Rice said.

"There’s a bit more to come.”

While Brewer has more competition these days, he has no intention of retiring from the business of promoting Bricktown. He enjoyed mingling among some of the biggest crowds ever to attend the St. Patrick’s Day parade, which coincided with the NCAA Tournament at nearby Ford Center.

When I wake up in the morning, I have to pinch myself,” Brewer said. “I’m never going to retire. I tell my sons, ‘Be sure to have the bagpipes for my funeral because I’ll be working up to the very last day.’ ”

Oh, I forgot. You guys can't take any criticizm.

Rah! Rah! Bricktown is the best thing since sliced bread.

Rah! Rah! The canal looks real.

I'm sorry, but you guys have done it all wrong.

1) I don't remember people asking you.

2) It wasn't your tax dollars, so why does it bother you so.

3) You don't have to come to Bricktown since it bothers you so.

4) Criticism is helpful when it's constructive. Your comments are acrimonious, vacuous and unqualified.

I'm just saying, going to Bricktown for me, is like going to 71st st. in Tulsa.

Just like 71st you all have a few multi story buildings, a stadium, and movie theaters.

Our Bass Pro is out in the suburbs like it should be.

Sonic HQ could have done a better job on their building.

Oh, and you can keep Toby Keith.

I'm just saying, going to Bricktown for me, is like going to 71st st. in Tulsa.

Just like 71st you all have a few multi story buildings, a stadium, and movie theaters.

Our Bass Pro is out in the suburbs like it should be.

Sonic HQ could have done a better job on their building.

Oh, and you can keep Toby Keith.

... And we are saying it is stricly YOUR opinion. Ours is that we are quite proud of what OUR tax dollars have paid for, and the return on OUR investment.

Oh, I forgot. You guys can't take any criticizm.

Rah! Rah! Bricktown is the best thing since sliced bread.

Rah! Rah! The canal looks real.

I'm sorry, but you guys have done it all wrong.

:lol2:

What are you talking about? No one was praising bricktown as much as just saying it was ignorant to call it dead. Just like calling it redneck is ignorant. Are you going to call the Green Door, Bricktown Live, Lit, Nonna's, Pure, Venu, Rane, The Mantel, etc. red neck? Well, then you need to get out a bit more.

Tulsa is much deader than OKC, which is why the thread is ironic and attracted attention. Don't get me wrong, there are little pockets of Tulsa I love, but there is not one area in it that is doing Bricktown type traffic. 71st and Memorial is like LOWER Bricktown, yes, but bricktown is much more than that. It's really more like taking all of Tulsa's little areas and putting them together in one place, except that it is getting bigger every month and OKC also has its neighborhood destinations.

Tulsa is much sleepier than OKC as a whole, so it was just weird hearing this guy scapegoat bricktown and have Tulsans jump on the bandwagon. If you like that better, fine, but saying bricktown is dead was a dumb ass thing to say, about as much as saying the whole thing is redneck.

i read the tulsa forum and i agree with some of what the tulsans are saying. lower bricktown does belong in the burbs, it feels out of place with the older side.
didnt places like abuelos and chelenos come in because of maps? they werent there before the project started like the tulsans are saying, right?

Cowz is an idiot Tulsa homer with nothing good to say... don't mind him.

Cowz is an idiot Tulsa homer with nothing good to say... don't mind him.

So, you are saying that anytime anyone has an opposite viewpoint, they must be an idiot?


Look, you guys paid for it. If you like it then that's fine. I'm just letteing you know how I feel. Nothing more.

Sheesh! The only one that has said anything with any sense was fromdust. The rest of you seem to be cheering on your city, without giving a care what happens to it.

So, you are saying that anytime anyone has an opposite viewpoint, they must be an idiot?


Look, you guys paid for it. If you like it then that's fine. I'm just letteing you know how I feel. Nothing more.

Sheesh! The only one that has said anything with any sense was fromdust. The rest of you seem to be cheering on your city, without giving a care what happens to it.

Let me see. A city spends 300 plus million on civic improvements and new buildings, and it creates over one BILLION dollars in private investment, which floods the area with people on weekends and many nights of the week.

Gee. That really seems like a good investment. I only wish I had that much luck on my PERSONAL investments.

The rest of you seem to be cheering on your city, without giving a care what happens to it.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We debate our city's development all the time and many echo what you are saying, but we generally do it with first hand knowledge and without overstating the effects of one single element. I personally am critical of the elements you are, but I don’t make the mistake of extrapolating those mistakes across the whole area or the whole city.

You seem to be criticizing it without a care to facts or real experience. If you think that bricktown is Toby Keith's and a movie theater, you're wrong. If you think that bricktown is the only thing developing in OKC, you're extremely wrong. If you think that bricktown and MAPS has not had far reaching positive residual effects across the city, then you're blind.

As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. The thrust of the criticism from the referenced thread was that bricktown is dead. That is untrue. Your criticism is that bricktown is red neck. That is a misdirected generalization that doesn't ring true for many of bricktown's establishments, especially the ones I listed above, which are very much residual effects of MAPS and bricktown.

You criticisms are equal to someone looking at ORU and saying that Tulsa is just a freaky fundamentalist community. You and I know there is more to it than that and saying such a thing would ring of ignorance and petty resentment.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We debate our city's development all the time and many echo what you are saying, but we generally do it with first hand knowledge and without overstating the effects of one single element. I personally am critical of the elements you are, but I don’t make the mistake of extrapolating those mistakes across the whole area or the whole city.

You seem to be criticizing it without a care to facts or real experience. If you think that bricktown is Toby Keith's and a movie theater, you're wrong. If you think that bricktown is the only thing developing in OKC, you're extremely wrong. If you think that bricktown and MAPS has not had far reaching positive residual effects across the city, then you're blind.

As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. The thrust of the criticism from the referenced thread was that bricktown is dead. That is untrue. Your criticism is that bricktown is red neck. That is a misdirected generalization that doesn't ring true for many of bricktown's establishments, especially the ones I listed above.

You criticisms are equal to someone looking at ORU and saying that Tulsa is just a freaky fundamentalist community. You and I know there is more to it than that and saying such a thing would ring of ignorance and petty resentment.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/Smailies%2001-28-08/congrats.gif Right on the money.

I see it more as a surburban-style redneck theme park.

I must say, that is an excellent way to offer criticism. People are not going to respect your alleged criticism when your comments just bash on OKC.

I must say, that is an excellent way to offer criticism. People are not going to respect your alleged criticism when your comments just bash on OKC.


So, you guys calling Tulsa dead at the beginging of this thread wasn't bashing???


You criticisms are equal to someone looking at ORU and saying that Tulsa is just a freaky fundamentalist community.

Actually, you are right. Tulsa is full of a bunch of nutjobs, and it's people like that, that give us a bad name. ( I consider ORU to be in Jenks, though) :D

I am not offended by you dreaming that Bricktown is dead, or saying on an average day, downtown OKC is dead. Downtown Tulsa is barely breathing. It has the potential to become lively all the time, as does OKC. The bashing is the suburban-style redneck theme park bullcrap. Very few people on this board are satisfied with Lower Bricktown. The design of LB is crap.

Because of that, would I classify all of Bricktown in the same way? No! Bicktown and Lower Bricktown are two different entities in my opinion. One has a lot of good restaurants and venues and the other looks like Memorial Road.

Actually, you are right. Tulsa is full of a bunch of nutjobs, and it's people like that, that give us a bad name.

But there are normal people and normal things to do. We have the nutjobs, too. The trick is to not let them define the city or let others use them to define it, especially when there is much more to it than that.

Is ORU in Jenks? I see it when I' comming into Tulsa, but I've never actually been there.

BDP, coming in Tulsa isn't allowed.:boff: Ha ha ha, just kidding!!

For the record, I really, really, really, ---really, am not feeling the look of Lower Bricktown thusfar. I too feel, that in an attempt to secure catalysts for development too many design issues were overlooked. But, what's done is done, and I feel that even OCURA knows this, per wanting more brick added to recently approved developments etc. I also feel that once the freeway is moved and the tree-lined boulevard is in place, the Bass Pro building won't seem like the icon that it is presently. Now, it seems to define the perception of the area, because it is the most visible(humongous) building from the elevated freeway. In all actuality it is located toward the corner of the area and once all the other developments (new and infill) are completed, it's visual impact will be lessened. Ditto for the Harkins. Ground level viewpoints, tree growth, and infill will eventually lessen the eye sore issues in a significant way. Nevertheless, the offending businesses will still be doing what has to be called an excellent job of attracting consistent crowds to the area and generating sales-tax revenue.

Is ORU in Jenks?

It is right around the Jenks-Tulsa Border.


For the record, I really, really, really, ---really, am not feeling the look of Lower Bricktown thusfar. I too feel, that in an attempt to secure catalysts for development too many design issues were overlooked. But, what's done is done, and I feel that even OCURA knows this, per wanting more brick added to recently approved developments etc. I also feel that once the freeway is moved and the tree-lined boulevard is in place, the Bass Pro building won't seem like the icon that it is presently. Now, it seems to define the perception of the area, because it is the most visible(humongous) building from the elevated freeway. In all actuality it is located toward the corner of the area and once all the other developments (new and infill) are completed, it's visual impact will be lessened. Ditto for the Harkins. Ground level viewpoints, tree growth, and infill will eventually lessen the eye sore issues in a significant way. Nevertheless, the offending businesses will still be doing what has to be called an excellent job of attracting consistent crowds to the area and generating sales-tax revenue.


Well, i'm happy for you all. At least something other than an arena is happeneing in your downtown. ( More than I can say for Tulsa.) Hopefully when the freeway is moved everything will look a little better.

Flying Cows, even though you called us all Rednecks,

I am sending you a Happy Birthday wish!!

Have a happy wonderful day! Consider it a peace offering from the fine city of OKC!

BDP, coming in Tulsa isn't allowed.

You can actually get a license from the state. I think they're sold out for now though. Check E-bay.

You can actually get a license from the state. I think they're sold out for now though. Check E-bay.

???

Flying Cows, even though you called us all Rednecks,

I am sending you a Happy Birthday wish!!

Have a happy wonderful day! Consider it a peace offering from the fine city of OKC!

Thank you.

Anyone who wants to see a dead downtown needs to go to downtown Tulsa.

This is true but some of the suburbs are developing wonderful areas for enjoyment, much like Bricktown. Broken Arrow and Jenks are two communities that are doing this and there doing it correctly with proper planning.

I find it interesting that the Tulsa Forumers think the area around Seattle's stadiums is a desireable place to live. This just shows a blind face than many people have with anything to do with Seattle - because the "neighbourhood" surrounding Safeco Field and Qwest Stadiums is among the WORST in the city.

In fact, the only thing there are numerous warehouses and industrial applications, parking garages and lots, with a few lofts (and I mean A FEW) on top. From their reaction, you'd think SODO (as it is called) is the hottest thing to hit a modern city - but in fact there were reasons why Safeco Field and Qwest were built there ..... And it was not because the area was desireable.

Not to bash Tulsa, I just think some of them are misinformed. Even in the pics of Seattle's stadiums, can you see any urban development???? I dont see what they see - of course, I live here (Seattle) so I know but a pic is 1000 words and I dont see a liveable area as they suggest.

Their reaction about Portland's PGE park is quite justified. Portland has excellent urban planning in their inner city and I totally agree that the PGE area is a pretty desireable place to live. In fact, I often try to urge OKC to benchmark Portland and Denver for urban renewal ideas. I only wish that downtown OKC could be redeveloped much in the way that downtown Portland has - with the Pearl District and PGE anchored by the Portland Streetcar Light Rail!!!

By the way, I was in Denver recently and they are completely expanding their light rail system - in conjunction with freeway renovations/expansion! Come on OKC, get off the sidelines!!!

I find it interesting that the Tulsa Forumers think the area around Seattle's stadiums is a desireable place to live. This just shows a blind face than many people have with anything to do with Seattle - because the "neighbourhood" surrounding Safeco Field and Qwest Stadiums is among the WORST in the city.

In fact, the only thing there are numerous warehouses and industrial applications, parking garages and lots, with a few lofts (and I mean A FEW) on top. From their reaction, you'd think SODO (as it is called) is the hottest thing to hit a modern city - but in fact there were reasons why Safeco Field and Qwest were built there ..... And it was not because the area was desireable.

Not to bash Tulsa, I just think some of them are misinformed. Even in the pics of Seattle's stadiums, can you see any urban development???? I dont see what they see - of course, I live here (Seattle) so I know but a pic is 1000 words and I dont see a liveable area as they suggest.

Their reaction about Portland's PGE park is quite justified. Portland has excellent urban planning in their inner city and I totally agree that the PGE area is a pretty desireable place to live. In fact, I often try to urge OKC to benchmark Portland and Denver for urban renewal ideas. I only wish that downtown OKC could be redeveloped much in the way that downtown Portland has - with the Pearl District and PGE anchored by the Portland Streetcar Light Rail!!!

By the way, I was in Denver recently and they are completely expanding their light rail system - in conjunction with freeway renovations/expansion! Come on OKC, get off the sidelines!!!

I agree, but if you read it with more detail you would see alot of them disagree, and don't think we should build our ballpark in downtown. Some disagreed about SODO. I think a ballpark could be good myself, but I haven't been to the places they are speaking of so I don't know.

Agreed! :)

Just please believe me, our stadiums in Seattle - while nice in themselves, their area "Sodo" is NOT. There has been no community rise up from it and the area is still much as it was when the Kingdome was there - a warehouse district at the foot of the Port of Seattle.

I imagine it will remain that way as nobody in their right minds wants to live down there. I'm pretty sure this will not be the case in Oklahoma City near the Brick or Tulsa should they chose to build a stadium downtown. But using our "ballpark" district as a model would not be a wise choice for your cities. You can do way better than we did.