View Full Version : Elderly panhandler near QS caught driving a new car



Pete
10-04-2014, 12:12 PM
This has been big news and it touches on a bunch of different subjects, including how to help those that need assistance.

OKC Panhandler Confronted After Being Seen Driving New Car - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26700906/okc-panhandler-confronted-after-being-seen-driving-new-car)


There is actually a lot of help for people who are willing to seek it, especially the elderly.

I've always preferred to give generously to responsible non-profits rather than people on the street.

Plutonic Panda
10-04-2014, 01:09 PM
I beat you Pete ;)

http://www.okctalk.com/current-events-open-topic/39177-okc-panhandler-busted-confronted.html

rezman
10-04-2014, 03:37 PM
My wife had a similar experience where she "helped" out a lady standing at NW Hwy & Penn, only to watch her afterwards, run over and get in the driver side of a Mercedes parked nearby in the Penn Square parking lot.

Wambo36
10-04-2014, 08:32 PM
I used to work at a fire station that was about 2 blocks off I-35. Being that close to the highway, we got lot of people that would walk in looking for money for gas so they could get "home" or food for their kids in the car. Instead of giving them money, we would offer to take them to the McDonalds or the gas station between the fire station and the highway and buy for food or gas for them. Out of probably 15 people to whom we made this offer, 2 actually met us and that was for gas. The rest just got back on the highway and drove away. When they couldn't get cash, they didn't want anything. That has pretty much colored the way I view panhandlers or anyone asking for a hand out.

Achilleslastand
10-04-2014, 08:43 PM
Ive seen a lady at least 3 times in the parking lot of the belle isle walmart with the same sad story, have hungry mouths to feed, im pregnant and sleep in a van down by the river blah blah blah. I fell for it the first time and that was it.

Mel
10-04-2014, 09:22 PM
"in a van down by the river" Ha!

kevinpate
10-05-2014, 07:37 AM
"in a van down by the river" Ha!

For whatever it may be worth, this does indeed happen. For that matter, there are folk who would be envious she has a van instead of an old tent or a threadbare blanket..

Certainly there are folks who scam, whether for profit, addiction or other reasons. But there are also those folk who are truly downtrodden, and one disagreement with a relative or friend past last chance status. They do live neat the river, or in the brush or in the streets and alleys.

Over the years I've been approached numerous times regarding needing gas to get to X, or a part for the car was delayed and now the person is broke after an extra night in the no tell motel, or brother lied and did not wire the funds from the wife, etc., etc. People who need help tend to accept the help and the appreciation shows in the face when you offer a non cash alternative.

Of course, a reaction to non cash alternatives also shows in the face of folk don't really need help. But that is a very different expression. They look like they were just baptized in lemon juice.

RadicalModerate
10-05-2014, 09:05 AM
I actually saw the lady in question climb into that new car and was struck by the strangeness of it. It sort of confirmed my opinion about those traffic island traffic hazards.

BBatesokc
10-05-2014, 09:13 AM
I have mixed reactions to this story and to the topic of 'homelessness', 'helplessness', and panhandling.

One side of me gets mad because - as even many of our homeless advocacy groups in Oklahoma acknowledge - a large number of these people are not homeless and are instead feeding addictions through the generosity of enablers.

Another side of me tells me most people who give to these people really have no reason to complain when an obvious dose of reality hits them - these people are not as hopeless as they led you to believe.

As for the woman..... She's apparently obeying the law and has a permit. Anyone naive enough to think they were really measurably impacting the life of this 'homeless' woman needs to get a clue. I am concerned though that's she's making enough to buy a new car and most likely has a decent home.... makes me wonder if she's also milking the system for all sorts of gov't handouts while not declaring the income she makes panhandling (that would probably make her ineligible for some of those gov't handouts).

In my experience (many many years volunteering with homeless organizations and actually visiting many homeless camps in the OKC area) truly deserving homeless individuals and families are experiencing a temporary situation and simply need help to get out of that situation. I've personally never met a sane, non-addicted homeless person that was truly homeless for more than a few weeks to possibly a year or so. Why? Because they desperately wanted out of that situation and did what needed to be done to do just that.

I've also never worked with any true victims of homelessness that panhandled. But that's just been my experience.

Pete
10-05-2014, 10:58 AM
The bottom line is that there are tons of programs -- both government funded and non profits -- that offer services to those in need.

I am a very compassionate person and give generously of my time and money to the less fortunate, but I never give to anyone on the street. For the most part, it just enables their behavior.

I know people who give in this manner mean well but they would be far better off sending a little money to the United Way or a thousand other deserving charities.

Stew
10-05-2014, 12:04 PM
If people give to street panhandlers the only thing gained is more street panhandlers. If you like seeing beggars at intersections then by all means toss them some money.

Mel
10-05-2014, 02:17 PM
For whatever it may be worth, this does indeed happen. For that matter, there are folk who would be envious she has a van instead of an old tent or a threadbare blanket..

Certainly there are folks who scam, whether for profit, addiction or other reasons. But there are also those folk who are truly downtrodden, and one disagreement with a relative or friend past last chance status. They do live neat the river, or in the brush or in the streets and alleys.

Over the years I've been approached numerous times regarding needing gas to get to X, or a part for the car was delayed and now the person is broke after an extra night in the no tell motel, or brother lied and did not wire the funds from the wife, etc., etc. People who need help tend to accept the help and the appreciation shows in the face when you offer a non cash alternative.

Of course, a reaction to non cash alternatives also shows in the face of folk don't really need help. But that is a very different expression. They look like they were just baptized in lemon juice.

I knew that Kevin, it just reminded of the Chris Farley sketch on SNL. I give money out sometimes, especially when they have kids with them, or animals.

Servicetech571
10-05-2014, 03:46 PM
Back during the presidential campaign, Mitt Romney tried to make the argument that President Obama was soft on welfare reform. He missed the target. Welfare abuse has shifted to Social Security Disability.

Chuck Lane has a very good column about this new form of abuse in the Washington Post today. The Clinton welfare reform—Temporary Aid to Needy Families—remains what it was: a humane way to move people from dependency to work. But a great many people have done an end-run around the system, checking into Social Security Disability—which has no work requirement—and never checking out.

Reform Social Security Disability | TIME.com (http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/09/reform-social-security-disability/)

Jeepnokc
10-05-2014, 07:02 PM
For whatever it may be worth, this does indeed happen. For that matter, there are folk who would be envious she has a van instead of an old tent or a threadbare blanket..

Certainly there are folks who scam, whether for profit, addiction or other reasons. But there are also those folk who are truly downtrodden, and one disagreement with a relative or friend past last chance status. They do live neat the river, or in the brush or in the streets and alleys.

Over the years I've been approached numerous times regarding needing gas to get to X, or a part for the car was delayed and now the person is broke after an extra night in the no tell motel, or brother lied and did not wire the funds from the wife, etc., etc. People who need help tend to accept the help and the appreciation shows in the face when you offer a non cash alternative.

Of course, a reaction to non cash alternatives also shows in the face of folk don't really need help. But that is a very different expression. They look like they were just baptized in lemon juice.

Al, the old homeless gentleman that hangs out in front of the Lunchbox upgraded to a van several months ago. Still sits outside Lunchbox some but not as often He stops by our new place 1-2 times a week to chat and have a soda

TheTravellers
10-06-2014, 10:44 AM
Do these do much good? Used to buy Streetwise almost every week when I worked in the Loop...

Streetwise, Inc. (http://www.streetwise.org)

The Curbside Chronicle - Employing and empowering the homeless of Oklahoma City (http://thecurbsidechronicle.org)

kelroy55
10-06-2014, 11:14 AM
The bottom line is that there are tons of programs -- both government funded and non profits -- that offer services to those in need.

I am a very compassionate person and give generously of my time and money to the less fortunate, but I never give to anyone on the street. For the most part, it just enables their behavior.

I know people who give in this manner mean well but they would be far better off sending a little money to the United Way or a thousand other deserving charities.

I agree with you. The only time I give money directly is to an older gentleman who is of American Indian decent and in a wheelchair. He's always in Army fatigues and I see him at the 7-11 I stop at and always give him a couple bucks. I do donate to Jesus House on a monthly basis.

SoonerDave
10-06-2014, 11:35 AM
I have mixed reactions to this story and to the topic of 'homelessness', 'helplessness', and panhandling.

One side of me gets mad because - as even many of our homeless advocacy groups in Oklahoma acknowledge - a large number of these people are not homeless and are instead feeding addictions through the generosity of enablers.

Another side of me tells me most people who give to these people really have no reason to complain when an obvious dose of reality hits them - these people are not as hopeless as they led you to believe.

This was my (well, indirect) "lesson learned" about panhandlers - from about 20-25 years ago. One Sunday, my Sunday School class went out to lunch at a pizza place along I-240, a notorious spot for pandhandlers. At this time, however, it wasn't quite so notorious, and this one guy panhandling caught the attention of a couple of my friends while we were eating. The guy was holding up a "out of work" or "will work for food" or similar sign - don't remember the specifics - and one of my friends said, "Hey, I know someone who is hiring day workers. Heck I'll drive the guy down there."

So he and a buddy head out of the restaurant and go talk to the guy, and a somewhat animated conversation ensues. In a few minutes, both of them return with a perplexed expression.

"What happened?"

"I told him I could get him some temporary work, and the guy laughed at us. He said, 'I can stand here and make a few hundred bucks a day tax free, why on earth should I get a job?'"

I was naive and disillusioned then, but not since.

jerrywall
10-06-2014, 12:01 PM
I love the real voucher program, and I've ordered a book to keep on hand to offer to panhandlers...

Real Change « The Homeless Alliance ? Oklahoma City, OK (http://www.homelessalliance.org/?page_id=37)

Anonymous.
10-06-2014, 01:53 PM
This old lady will have to find a new spot now, she will be heckled and outted at that location from here forward. However, it could probably still be profitable to her to keep taking advantage of the people who have not heard/seen this story.

I would insist on someone counter-panhandling out there next to her with a sign saying she is a fraud. There isn't much worse than taking advantage of generosity by painting yourself as something you're not. Maybe I should take some vacation at work and go spend some time outside with this old bag.

Plutonic Panda
10-06-2014, 02:25 PM
Just found out she used to baby sit my cousins nephew. She used to drive a used 04 Mercedes from what I've heard.

For anyone saying she needs a car, I have sold nice, reliable cars for under $2,000 working for my father. If you're strapped for cash and to the point where you have to rely on panhandling for income, perhaps a new car that you have to finance isn't for you. Like Pete said, there are TONS of options out there for you to talk with people how to get back on track. There are billionaires who have made it from homelessness, surely these people can manage to build a sustainable life where they can own a car, house, and keep a job that is within their means.

Hell, if she didn't have a car and she asked me to, I would take her downtown and help her find these assistance programs. I know they are there. I am even considering volunteering at a homeless shelter here in the next couple of weeks when I get my second 8 week classes together and become familiar with the schedules and all. There is a way.

Also, even thought I consider this lady to be a parasite, I'm not going to entirely blame her. People chose to give her money and she never disclosed that she didn't own a new car or anything. So it is important to note, unless you know the individual, you are the one supporting them and have no one to blame but yourself if you find out they're doing drugs, purchasing alcohol, or living a lifestyle that isn't exactly reminiscent of a homeless person.

I don't wish anything bad on her, but I hope she finds better ways of living life than what she is currently doing.

Pete
10-06-2014, 02:33 PM
It's just yet another one of those subjects that never really was discussed... People on the street begging for money and playing on sympathies while there are tons of options for getting help.

It's past time there was more information shared and dialog around this subject.

Anyone inclined to help should sign up for the United Way at your place of work. They can usually do a small deduction every paycheck and the United Way does a great job of picking deserving causes and make sure they report the effectiveness of the money they allocate to various agencies. And then, you have records of all your deductions, etc.

I ran an agency that received some money from them and they put us through the ringer -- but in a fair and responsible way.

catch22
10-06-2014, 02:38 PM
Those voucher programs are genius.

If they are not genuine and throw them in the trash, the Homeless Alliance still has the funds, and will help them feed others who need it.

If they are genuine, they have access to the services you just paid for. Either way, your donation, even if thrown in the trashcan, still helped a homeless person. Excellent idea.

About two years ago, I was walking back to my car in Bricktown and ran into a homeless man. He asked for cash, I offered him dinner. He looked pretty rough -- he accepted dinner. We walked to Earl's and had a nice BBQ dinner together. Another time, bought a lady $25 worth of groceries at Walmart. I won't give out money. I will give out something they need, if they are genuine. If they are looking for cash, they will almost always turn down your offer for food or water.

Pete
10-06-2014, 02:47 PM
For people in legitimate need, these facilities and service providers aren't there just to give them a meal and/or a cot for the night.

They try to address the underlying issues, which are almost always directly related to mental health or addiction.

If you give to someone on the street, it allows them to continue on without any hope of getting real help. If they are hungry and cold enough, they know how to find the shelters and will be forced to use them and then get additional help.

BBatesokc
10-06-2014, 02:48 PM
Another good way to give to those in need of food is to gather up the family/friends and volunteer a shift or two at the Regional Food Bank of Oklahoma. Nice clean well run place to spend a few hours filling up boxes or backpacks with food for those in need. We've probably volunteered there several dozen times at least.

Below is a very crudely shot and edited video I did with a homeless guy I met in south OKC around Thanksgiving 2001.

I think I may have linked to it in the past. This same guy (Larry) can be found at SE 44 and I-35 panhandling to this day. His only real issue is a criminal record and drug addiction. In this video he was living in a homeless camp directly east of the old downtown airpark. The camp was demolished by the city a few years ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT4OlFFgV54

mugofbeer
10-06-2014, 07:19 PM
So glad the one person was exposed as a fraud! I wonder how much guff the TV station is getting from the PC police? 10 ysars ago or so, a local Denver station did an expose on 4 corner panhandlers and found 1 was severely alcaholic while 3 had cars and homes---though they professed to be homeless. They took a huge amount of criticism from advocates because there was a big push going on for a $50 million "homeless apartment" complex.

ctchandler
10-07-2014, 01:39 PM
Just wondering if my 2006 Mercury would classify me as a panhandler, I am elderly after all. Ok, "OLD", but you don't have to be rude. I could have a sign that says "Need money for oxygen refills".
Actually, I feel for the ones that really are homeless for a good reason, bad luck, et al., but there's no way (other than spotting one of them in their 2014 car) to tell the difference. I pretty much restrict my contributions to my own favorite charities.
C. T.

Bullbear
10-07-2014, 01:56 PM
I sometimes give change or a few bucks to panhandlers. Sometimes bottled water and have purchased people meals before. I am sure some of them were not as bad off as they portrayed however I gave to them and my intentions where good and pure. what they do with that money or meal after it leaves my hands is their karma not mine and I am not going to lose sleep over it.

Plutonic Panda
10-08-2014, 03:15 PM
OKC Magazine To Help Homeless Turns Attention To Panhandlers - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26729096/okc-magazine-to-help-homeless-turns-attention-to-panhandlers)

warreng88
10-15-2014, 08:53 AM
Two quick stories I have about panhandlers:

1) I live at 21st and May and noticed a man in a wheelchair panhandling in front of the Taco Bell on 23rd and May. His sign said, "Homeless, need help." A few days later I saw him going in to the duplex across the street in the evening and coming out early in the morning. He was living there, rolling down to the corner, panhandling and coming home.

2) I bartended at Belle Isle Brewery for three years back in college, so early 2000's. I live west on NW Expressway at the Warwick West Apartments near Baptist Hospital. On my drive to work, I would see a man in a wheelchair (different from the man in the first story) facing west on the corner of Expressway and Penn. One night, I was bartending upstairs and he walked in, ordered two beers and a Ribeye for a total of about $20 and left me $25. I saw him the next day with a sign saying, "Hungry, anything will help, God Bless."

kelroy55
10-15-2014, 09:10 AM
Why I prefer to give to organizations.

warreng88
10-15-2014, 09:13 AM
Why I prefer to give to organizations.

Exactly, that's why I volunteer at the Regional Food Bank or give money to my church that helps our community directly.

BBatesokc
10-15-2014, 09:59 AM
There are several website/organizations that track non-profits and rank how well they impact the community and spend their donations.

1.) Charity Navigator - Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home (http://www.charitynavigator.org)

However, many local smaller charities are not covered by these organizations.

I like to also utilize FoundationCenter.org and their 990 finder - Form 990, 990 Tax Forms | Foundation Center (http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/) - type in a charity and actually read their tax returns.

So...... say you wanted to read what a tax shelter sham Wes Lane's Salt & Light Ministry is? You could find it here..... Form 990, 990 Tax Forms | Foundation Center (http://990finder.foundationcenter.org/990results.aspx?990_type=&fn=salt+light&st=OK&zp=&ei=&fy=&action=Find)

Or..... Maybe what a tax shelter sham his mother's Burbridge Foundation is? You could find it here.... Form 990, 990 Tax Forms | Foundation Center (http://990finder.foundationcenter.org/990results.aspx?990_type=&fn=burbridge&st=OK&zp=&ei=&fy=&action=Find)

(not that I'm biased towards them! Okay, I am)