Story be here: Report: Adrian Peterson indicted in child injury case in Texas - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24706732/report-adrian-peterson-indicted-in-child-injury-case-in-texas)

Things just keep getting better and better for the NFL. There's still a long way to go in Adrian's case before a firm "guilty" can be pinned on him, but I'm sure nobody wanted to add "child abusers" to the National Football League of Pill Poppers and Woman Beaters.

Sounds like it was his 11 year-old son visiting him in Texas:


NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports that Peterson's arrest stems from disciplining his son with a switch.

Reportedly, his mother took the kid to the doctor when he returned home from the visit.

He spanked his son with a switch behind closed doors in his own home. You know when you were a kid...and told your parents you were gonna call the police on them, because you thought they were "abusing you" and your parents said......"Ok.....Call the Police then."


That's all. Move along..nothing to see here. The NFL is definitely seen better days...but this story has already been embellished 10x more than it should have. Kids today, cant be disciplined for ****.

Sounds like it was his 11 year-old son visiting him in Texas:

Reportedly, his mother took the kid to the doctor when he returned home from the visit.

Hmm, the story hadn't been updated with that when I first saw it. At least the fresh facts take some of the worst conclusions out of the picture.

Keep in mind that issues around corporal punishment -- which alone are highly controversial -- get infinitely more complex when the parents aren't together (as in this case) and obviously not in agreement.

The mom felt the dad went overboard and that's where the authorities got involved.

Kid was 4 yrs old..... NFL players have become the new target for a witch hunt. Nonetheless , who hasn't had they but whooped? This isn't news

This isn't looking too good for Peterson.

As the reports come out, it now seems the doctor in Minnesota that saw the boy called police and Child Protective Services because he felt it was a case of "child abuse." Another examiner agreed, calling the wounds "excessive." Police also agreed and sent photos, statements, etc. to authorities in Texas, where the incident occurred.

Deadspin has pulled together a lot of the information: Warrant Issued For Adrian Peterson's Arrest In Child Injury Case (http://deadspin.com/report-adrian-peterson-indicted-in-child-injury-case-1634160368)

Minneapolis Star Tribune: Warrant issued for arrest of Vikings' Adrian Peterson after indictment alleging injury to child | Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/sports/274946031.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue)

Sports Illustrated: Adrian Peterson child injury: Minnesota Vikings running back indicted in Texas - NFL - SI.com (http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/12/adrian-peterson-child-injury-indictment)

Kid was 4 yrs old..... NFL players have become the new target for a witch hunt. Nonetheless , who hasn't had they but whooped? This isn't news

Whether he was right or wrong, this elicits a big yawn from me. I had a switch from a tree used on me when I was child and I was even made to go cut the switch off of the tree to use.

Ms. Kersey, a dear soul who helped raise my brothers and I, was from the go cut a switch and get yourself back here with it school. She knew how to use one too by golly. That said, I can't say my legs ever looked like the photos I saw on the news tonight. Not very pretty.

Of course, Ms. Kersey was in her late 50s or early 60's when I first knew her, and I am fairly surde she never even saw a weight room in her life, much less all but lived in one from teens going forward.

Ms. Kersey, a dear soul who helped raise my brothers and I, was from the go cut a switch and get yourself back here with it school. She knew how to use one too by golly. That said, I can't say my legs ever looked like the photos I saw on the news tonight. Not very pretty.

Of course, Ms. Kersey was in her late 50s or early 60's when I first knew her, and I am fairly surde she never even saw a weight room in her life, much less all but lived in one from teens going forward.

Yes, the pictures are horrible and they haven't shown them all. ESPN talked to an attorney in The Woodlands in Montgomery County who said that the county is an upscale county with very conservative values, voters, and political structure. He said he has a hard time believing that they would have taken it to a grand jury unless it was truly an egregious case of child abuse and to get the indictment to boot in that county speaks strongly of some damning evidence. "We're talking Montgomery County, TX. A conservative suburban county outside Houston."

They recited the chain of opinion....

- The mother thought it was serious
- The doctor thought it was child abuse and referred it to another examiner, who agreed.
- The police in Minnesota were contacted and they agreed it was criminal child abuse
- Child Protective Services was called in and saw it as a child abuse
- The Houston Police first got all the information, they thought it was child abuse
- Houston PD realizes it's a case for Montgomery County and sends all info to them
- The Montgomery DA thought it was child abuse and sought an indictment
- The grand jury, after seeing the evidence, agreed with everybody and indicted Adrian Peterson on several criminal charges.

Adrian was one the OU greats, one of the NFL greats, but none of the above bodes well for AD. I think the attorney in The Woodlands hits on a key point - this indictment doesn't come from some liberal bastion that thinks any "whoopin" is child abuse. To get an indictment on child abuse in Montgomery County, TX probably takes more than what many of us had growing up. Not to mention the unanimous opinions down the chain.

A lot of this on Twitter:

I’m disgusted and stunned by how many people seen to be okay with what Adrian Peterson did to his son. He is 4 people! Nothing a 4 year old does deserves a beating until he's hurt and bleeding.

— Meagan (@SFGiantsMeag)

Adrian was one the OU greats, one of the NFL greats, but none of the above bodes well for AD. I think the attorney in The Woodlands hits on a key point - this indictment doesn't come from some liberal bastion that thinks any "whoopin" is child abuse. To get an indictment on child abuse in Montgomery County, TX probably takes more than what many of us had growing up. Not to mention the unanimous opinions down the chain.

Maybe, maybe not. Ideas about that have changed considerably since I was a child in the 50's.

Maybe, maybe not. Ideas about that have changed considerably since I was a child in the 50's.

You're right about that. But, the point that so many saw the evidence and came to the same conclusion says something. And for the indictment to come from a conservative Texas county says something, too. It's a sad situation all the way around.

You're right about that. But, the point that so many saw the evidence and came to the same conclusion says something. And for the indictment to come from a conservative Texas county says something, too. It's a sad situation all the way around.

As I said, I certainly wasn't approving of what he did, just that from a personal perspective it didn't mean much to me. (I certainly didn't like being on the receiving end of a switch):dizzy:

Instead of "whuppin' the child's ass" with a "switch" (ala Bill Cosby, Dick Gregory, Flip Wilson, and Richard Pryor) . . . he should have whupped the child's ass with a circuit breaker? (Mort Sahl/Henny Oldman)

In all honesty, I would have thought that the "lawsuit/indictment" would have originated in Minnesota rather than Texas.
I guess Texas is just about as dumb as the jokes indicate it is.

Not counting all of the Ole and Lena jokes.

Instead of "whuppin' the child's ass" with a "switch" (ala Bill Cosby, Dick Gregory, Flip Wilson, and Richard Pryor) . . . he should have whupped the child's ass with a circuit breaker? (Mort Sahl/Henny Oldman)

In all honesty, I would have thought that the "lawsuit/indictment" would have originated in Minnesota rather than Texas.
I guess Texas is just about as dumb as the jokes indicate it is.

Not counting all of the Ole and Lena jokes.

So, you see no problem with this? Texas is "dumb?" The 14th largest economy in the world can't be too dumb.

But then, I can't always tell about your posts as you seem to channel William S. Burroughs from his Naked Lunch years with some slight help from Monty Python and then shaken and baked with magic mushrooms into something only slightly understandable. In other words, I don't know how to take your post. In fact, many of your posts take more work to decipher than the NYT's Sunday Crossword. :)

As unfortunate as this all is, it will serve to generate a lot of well-needed conversation about corporal punishment in the U.S.

Several countries have completely outlawed the practice. Virtually every study ever written on the subject will explain in great detail why it not only doesn't work, but how it almost always has negative consequences, sometimes severe.

Then you have to evaluate when the line is crossed from discipline to abuse. The huge amount of "whoppin's" happen when the parent is angry and not thinking very clearly.

As someone who ran a nonprofit for youth for seven years and was mandated by law to report anything that seemed to be abuse, I can tell you that any discipline that leaves a mark or witnessing an adult administering more than one quick swat on the clothed butt with an open hand, would result in a report being filed.

Most seem to think, "It's my kid and I'll discipline them as I see fit". But the law does not see it that way and it seems very few people understand this.


Laws in this country are particularly harsh when it comes to those who can't easily defend themselves: animals, senior citizens, children and in many cases, women.

I was spanked as a kid, although not often, but there tons of things my parents did that I would never do. We all now have the benefit of research and education and information and communication that past generations almost completely lacked. You would hope that would lead to a reevaluation of almost everything, especially things like physically striking a person or animal.

Not that long ago, society pretty much decided for the first time it's not okay for a husband to smack around his wife. But for a long time that was considered pretty much okay. In fact, it was openly joked about on TV; just watch an episode of The Honeymooners.

Time for this country to have the same open thought process on the subject of corporal punishment. It's actually long overdue.

Whether he was right or wrong, this elicits a big yawn from me. I had a switch from a tree used on me when I was child and I was even made to go cut the switch off of the tree to use.

Yawning?

The kid is four. Here's what he had to say


According to police reports, the child, however, had a slightly different story, telling authorities that “Daddy Peterson hit me on my face.” The child also expressed worry that Peterson would punch him in the face if the child reported the incident to authorities. He also said that he had been hit by a belt and that “there are a lot of belts in Daddy’s closet.” He added that Peterson put leaves in his mouth when he was being hit with the switch while his pants were down. The child told his mother that Peterson “likes belts and switches” and “has a whooping room.”


http://cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Adrien-Peterson-sons-injuries.jpg
http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/adrian-peterson-son-abuse-1.jpg
http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/adrian-peterson-son-abuse.jpg[img]

Defensive wounds, on a four year old:
[img]http://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/adrian-peterson-child-abuse.jpg?w=1200

Off with his (Adrian's) head. Or at least re-injure his leg.
OJ Simpson might not have been a criminal, later in life, had proper "attitude-adjustment" been applied earlier.
(why did I just think of MC Escher? Without Lawyers and Apologists and PR Staff?)

I was definitely spanked as a kid, had the belt twice as well...never more than that. However, never got a bruise or broken skin because of it. Some parents just need to learn when to pull back. I don't have a problem with discipline...I have an issue when the child get injured from it.

What could a 4 year old do to deserve this?

Lots of people talking about getting (or giving) a "switching" but in their instances, it was somehow completely different.

I suspect any time you hit a child with a tree branch you are going to leave marks. It's just most people never see them before they heal or there wasn't the awareness and legal requirements to report until relatively recently. Even in the Peterson case, the only reason this came to light is the kid happened to have a routine doctor's appointment and the doc HAD to report what he found.

Spanking is one thing -- and there is still a very, very strong case against that regardless that we all survived it ourselves -- but hitting a child with some sort of implement?? Seems like everyone needs to wake up and recognize that's a bit crazy and that it's long past time to break this cycle of passing it on from one generation to the next.


I know this is a tough subject and that lots of current parents have spanked, with their hand or otherwise. If I would have had kids when I was a young adult, I would have probably spanked too. But I absolutely would not do it now. Too much great information has come out in the last 20 years or so.

But a big part of the problem in shifting the thinking on this subject is that almost everyone who are currently parents have already spanked. So, almost no one is going to be open to the idea that that practice is not a good way to go about things, because no one wants to be accused of being a bad parent. And after all, all their kids turned out just fine!

Seems like if we could just absolve all the people that have spanked and then dispassionately educate ourselves on corporal punishment and ask very simple questions, such as: Does it make any sort of common sense to strike a child in order to teach them a lesson?

The answer to that question -- once you strip out all degree of defensiveness -- is so incredibly obvious you just know that in the very near future, people will look back on this and wonder, What the H were people thinking back then? Just like we have on countless other social issues.

No one was killed in this whoopin, a mother or father ought to be allowed to discipline his children how he or she fells. The new age of parenting, without any form of discipline is creating the next generation cry babies.

Clown puncher, if you disagree, then you do, but I think most folk are able to ascertain a true difference in appropriate, even quite firm, discipline and the act of repeatedly striking a child, or anyone, to the point of repeatedly breaking the skin.

No one was killed in this whoopin, a mother or father ought to be allowed to discipline his children how he or she fells. The new age of parenting, without any form of discipline is creating the next generation cry babies.

So they should be allowed to punish their child to the point of the skin being broke? Like I said before, I have no problem with parents punishing their children...I have an issue when that child starts bleeding from it. That is overly excessive. However, if you agree with causing injuries to others to keep them from being "cry babies" then I guess that is something you need to live with.

I would point out, this guy is relatively new and most of the posts have been borderline inflammatory. My money is on this guy was previously banned and is subverting it with this new account.

I can't believe anybody is defending this stuff.

That child (in those pictures) was abused.


And just because some of you were spanked, switched, and/or beaten as a child in NO WAY makes it okay to do it to a child now. Even saying something like that makes me want to take a switch to your legs.

By the way. If I DID take a switch to your legs and caused similar injuries...If I'm not mistaken...THAT WOULD BE FELONY ASSAULT. And you're saying it's okay to do it to a four year old boy.

To demonstrate how the thinking on all this has shifted, but clearly not enough...

When I was at Hefner Jr. High in the early 70's, "paddlings" were extremely common, usually by the assistant principal or a particularly macho male teacher or coach who was almost too happy to volunteer.

At the time, Hefner was the largest junior high in the state and PC schools were considered the best in Oklahoma.

In the 8th grade (would have been around 13 years old) I had a history teacher named Mr. Thurman who was easily 300 pounds. And he was one of the corporal discipline specialists that other teachers would send their misbehaving students to so he could beat them with the menacing paddle (with holes drilled to increase velocity!) that hung prominently in his classroom. Many, many times there would be a knock on our door and Mr. Thurman would stop class so he could step out into the hall and beat a child that he outweighed by 200 pounds with a heavy piece of wood. The sound and cries were horrifying -- and were meant to be.

One day we had a substitute teacher in this particular class and when Mr. Thurman returned he told us that his replacement had taken names of everyone who talked; turned out that literally every kid in the room was on the list. The girls got detention, the boys all got a 'lick'.

I'm sure he didn't hit me as hard as he hit others in other circumstances and he only hit me once, but it hurt like a mother goose. And I had a bad welt which turned to a bruise or my arse for more than a week. Of course it did! I was a skinny little kid who probably didn't even weigh a hundred pounds.


(Also, I had gym all three years at Hefner and we had one big communal locker room and shower and I remember lots of boys showing off their "lick scars" with a certain degree of pride.)

This was all par for the course back then; a 300 pound man beating pre-teens with a piece of lumber. Happened virtually every day at that school.

Finally, someone wised up and put a stop to it.

When I tell one of my younger friends about this, it's hard to believe myself. It sounds completely insane. And of course it was completely insane but it was just the continuation of something that had always been done, without much consideration.


And now that I think about it, there were never any licks when I got to high school. I'm sure they knew that the students 1) would not put up with it and/or 2) would likely retaliate. In other words, we'll beat them until they are big and strong enough to stand up for themselves. Makes the whole thing that much more perverse.


One more thing... I just helped organize our 35-year high school reunion and for the first time we used Facebook quite a bit to share memories from our school days. About half of us went to Hefner (the other half went to a much less strict Central Jr. High) and even though the group was mainly about high school, there were several threads about Hefner and this paddling thing. Here were all these people in their 50's sharing traumatic experiences like a support group. So please don't tell me these things don't have a long-lasting effect, especially when society tells you, basically, to shut up and take your medicine.

To demonstrate how the thinking on all this has shifted, but clearly not enough...

When I was at Hefner Jr. High in the early 70's, "paddlings" were extremely common, usually by the assistant principal or a particularly macho male teacher or coach who was almost too happy to volunteer.

At the time, Hefner was the largest junior high in the state and PC schools were considered the best in Oklahoma.

In the 8th grade (would have been around 13 years old) I had a history teacher named Mr. Thurman who was easily 300 pounds. And he was one of the corporal discipline specialists that other teachers would send their misbehaving students to so he could beat them with the menacing paddle (with holes drilled to increase velocity!) that hung prominently in his classroom. Many, many times there would be a knock on our door and Mr. Thurman would stop class so he could step out into the hall and beat a child that he outweighed by 200 pounds with a heavy piece of wood. The sound and cries were horrifying -- and were meant to be.

One day we had a substitute teacher in this particular class and when Mr. Thurman returned he told us that his replacement had taken names of everyone who talked; turned out that literally every kid in the room was on the list. The girls got detention, the boys are got a 'lick'.

I'm sure he didn't hit me as hard as he hit others in other circumstances and he only hit me once, but it hurt like a mother goose. And I had a bad welt which turned to a bruise or my arse for more than a week.

(Also, I had gym all three years at Hefner and we had one big communal locker room and shower and I remember lots of boys showing off their "lick scars" with a certain degree of pride.)

This was all par for the course back then; a 300 pound man beating pre-teens with a piece of lumber. Happened virtually every day at that school.

Finally, someone wised up and put a stop to it.

When I tell one of my younger friends about this, it's hard to believe myself. It sounds completely insane. And of course it was completely insane but it just the continuation of something that had always been done, without much consideration.


And now that I think about it, there were never any licks when I got to high school. I'm sure they knew that the students 1) would not put up with it and/or 2) would likely retaliate. In other words, we'll beat them until they are big and strong enough to stand up for themselves. Makes the whole thing that much more perverse.

I got swats at school and switches, swats, and belts at home (and then some). And yeah...It stopped when the kids got bigger. My dad sure stopped when I got bigger than him.

I can't imagine beating my kids. I can't fathom it.

In no particular order - why the hell are they putting those pictures on the internet? They are horrible and that is a question for the family, police, the doctor and social services. Using that child to drum up public outrage is as wrong as posting pictures of rape victims. That is just outrage porn. This child has been abused, now he is being exploited - maybe by his mom, dunno. But it isn't right.

Next, IMO, that is clearly abuse since it resulted in injury. Most states let parents spank or switch short of an injury but that is where they cross the line. Yeah, most of us old timers got a bruise or something at one point or another and, yes, it didn't kill us but it's just poor disciplining. A parent that injures a child while disciplining messed up. No excuses.

Finally, as a guardian ad litem, short of other facts not known, this would have been considered an "excessive discipline" case. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred you have a parent who loves their child, lost it and just messed up. They aren't demons or crazies, most of the time. Most of the time they had good reason to discipline but went overboard. They are horrified, remorseful and embarassed. As someone mentioned, toss in an ex and it just goes toxic. The remedy for these sorts of cases nearly all the time are anger management, Parenting classes and perhaps counseling if it is stress related. We'd get a protective order in place to stop further corporal punishment, parenting classes, counseling, etc. and drop it once the parent had completed classes, counseling, etc.

Cases like this are a dime a dozen and a family tragedy. They are also often the easiest situations to turn around because you are usually dealing with a parent who cares. Give me an excessive disciple case, hard as it is to look at, over a neglect case nearly anytime. One of the few things the courts often do well. Turning this into something somehow unique to the NFL, and splashing pictures of this baby on the internet is making a bad situation worse.

Note, an excessive discipline case is NOT the same thing as just a mean SOB who abuses their kids, physically, emotionally or sexually.

In no particular order - why the hell are they putting those pictures on the internet? They are horrible and that is a question for the family, police, the doctor and social services. Using that child to drum up public outrage is as wrong as posting pictures of rape victims. That is just outrage porn. This child has been abused, now he is being exploited - maybe by his mom, dunno. But it isn't right.

Next, IMO, that is clearly abuse since it resulted in injury. Most states let parents spank or switch short of an injury but that is where they cross the line. Yeah, most of us old timers got a bruise or something at one point or another and, yes, it didn't kill us but it's just poor disciplining. A parent that injures a child while disciplining messed up. No excuses.

Finally, as a guardian ad litem, short of other facts not known, this would have been considered an "excessive discipline" case. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred you have a parent who loves their child, lost it and just messed up. They aren't demons or crazies, most of the time. Most of the time they had good reason to discipline but went overboard. They are horrified, remorseful and embarassed. As someone mentioned, toss in an ex and it just goes toxic. The remedy for these sorts of cases nearly all the time are anger management, Parenting classes and perhaps counseling if it is stress related. We'd get a protective order in place to stop further corporal punishment, parenting classes, counseling, etc. and drop it once the parent had completed classes, counseling, etc.

Cases like this are a dime a dozen and a family tragedy. They are also often the easiest situations to turn around because you are usually dealing with a parent who cares. Give me an excessive disciple case, hard as it is to look at, over a neglect case nearly anytime. One of the few things the courts often do well. Turning this into something somehow unique to the NFL, and splashing pictures of this baby on the internet is making a bad situation worse.

Note, an excessive discipline case is NOT the same thing as just a mean SOB who abuses their kids, physically, emotionally or sexually.

I’m ok with the pictures. I actually support them. They don't give the name of child or show his face.

My mother worked DHS for years, she ran child abuse investigation units in two different counties. She dealt with many dead kids that never made the news because of “privacy” rules at DHS. That has to change. We have an epidemic going on that no one pays enough attention to because it happens out of sight. We need more photos of child abuse in the news, to shock and shame the pubic into action.

This is a four year old boy with multiple wealts that drew blood and defensive wounds. This is not discipline, this is abuse. Adrian Peterson deserves jail.

I do not think what Adrian Peterson did was right. But, I am absolutely certain parents who have inflicted comparable injuries on their children in this state and Texas do not normally spend time in jail. Celebrities should be treated neither better nor worse than anyone else. Parenting classes, supervised time with the child, modeling of proper behavior are more effective than prison for parents who have inflicted injuries of this magnitude. I completely agree with PennyQuilts.

What is perhaps the most egregious here is that Peterson is the non-custodial parent. He has no say in how the child is disciplined. For the custodial parent to receive her child back in that state his horrifying.

The really sad and telling thing is that AD sincerely thought he was doing the right thing. He was very forthcoming with his child's mother and the authorities and seemed to be legitimately surprised there has been such a big fuss.

He even said something to the effect of "it's how I was raised myself".

This way of thinking needs to be challenged on a national level. On the OU message boards I would say 75% of the people have said the same thing: "I got a switching when I was a kid." And then most go on to say they've done similar things to their own children.

Why on earth has this been passed on from generation to generation without any critical thought?

I know there are underlying psychological reasons -- such as men in particular feeling this sort of things toughens kids up and teaches them right from wrong -- but it's astounding that in this day and age we are still beating children with tree branches and even more astounding that it's pretty much socially acceptable.

Having more and more of this type of thing reported with the authorities getting involved is probably the only way this will change in a significant way.

A surprisingly large number of our small, rural school districts in Oklahoma still utilize corporal punishment. And guess what? It almost always results in legal trouble. Regardless of one's philosophical stance on the issue, it's truly a no-win situation for the schools. Yet they still do it. And it generates lots of attorney fees.

Yes, there was an article in the Oklahoman last year that said 10% of school districts in the state still allow corporal punishment.

There was even a recent bill that sought to loosen the laws, which currently allow only administrators to administer a spanking. It didn't get very far.

There are only 19 states that allow spanking in schools under any circumstances and Oklahoma is one of them.

I just don't get it. Spanking your own kid is sketchy enough (I spanked a few times, and it truly did not work for my particular kid...she just panicked and freaked out and it did nothing to address the central issue...YMMV), but the thought of spanking someone else's kid is, well, just fraught with head-scratching.

Pete, when I was growing up, we, too, had a guy who was the "enforcer" of the punishment. He was the vice-principal at the middle school. A short, stocky, muscular man who would get very red in the face when he was irritated. Big bully-type boys who scared everyone silly would come back from his office openly crying after a paddling. Nicest guy in the world, by the way, but you didn't want to upset him.

Times were way different then. Now, parents question EVERYTHING that's done in the public schools—almost to a fault. Gone are the days when the parents and teachers/administrators generally agreed on what was best for the kids and worked together to accomplish their goals. My experience in working with public schools for the past 15+ years is that nowadays, especially when it comes to disciplinary issues, parents side with the kid the majority of the time and see the school district as mistaken, egregious or even the enemy.

No matter who is right or wrong in these cases, it's simply mind-numbing in today's climate to see schools take such a huge risk by the continued use of corporal punishment. I try my best to advise them to stay away from it, but many of them take a hard stance on its continued use.

To demonstrate how the thinking on all this has shifted, but clearly not enough...

When I was at Hefner Jr. High in the early 70's, "paddlings" were extremely common, usually by the assistant principal or a particularly macho male teacher or coach who was almost too happy to volunteer.

At the time, Hefner was the largest junior high in the state and PC schools were considered the best in Oklahoma.

In the 8th grade (would have been around 13 years old) I had a history teacher named Mr. Thurman who was easily 300 pounds. And he was one of the corporal discipline specialists that other teachers would send their misbehaving students to so he could beat them with the menacing paddle (with holes drilled to increase velocity!) that hung prominently in his classroom. Many, many times there would be a knock on our door and Mr. Thurman would stop class so he could step out into the hall and beat a child that he outweighed by 200 pounds with a heavy piece of wood. The sound and cries were horrifying -- and were meant to be.

One day we had a substitute teacher in this particular class and when Mr. Thurman returned he told us that his replacement had taken names of everyone who talked; turned out that literally every kid in the room was on the list. The girls got detention, the boys all got a 'lick'.

I'm sure he didn't hit me as hard as he hit others in other circumstances and he only hit me once, but it hurt like a mother goose. And I had a bad welt which turned to a bruise or my arse for more than a week. Of course it did! I was a skinny little kid who probably didn't even weigh a hundred pounds.


(Also, I had gym all three years at Hefner and we had one big communal locker room and shower and I remember lots of boys showing off their "lick scars" with a certain degree of pride.)

This was all par for the course back then; a 300 pound man beating pre-teens with a piece of lumber. Happened virtually every day at that school.

Finally, someone wised up and put a stop to it.

When I tell one of my younger friends about this, it's hard to believe myself. It sounds completely insane. And of course it was completely insane but it was just the continuation of something that had always been done, without much consideration.


And now that I think about it, there were never any licks when I got to high school. I'm sure they knew that the students 1) would not put up with it and/or 2) would likely retaliate. In other words, we'll beat them until they are big and strong enough to stand up for themselves. Makes the whole thing that much more perverse.


One more thing... I just helped organize our 35-year high school reunion and for the first time we used Facebook quite a bit to share memories from our school days. About half of us went to Hefner (the other half went to a much less strict Central Jr. High) and even though the group was mainly about high school, there were several threads about Hefner and this paddling thing. Here were all these people in their 50's sharing traumatic experiences like a support group. So please don't tell me these things don't have a long-lasting effect, especially when society tells you, basically, to shut up and take your medicine.

Reading your post and hearing so many stories about it after moving here is really a head scratcher. Corporal punishment was never a subject that was discussed in my circle of friends as there was no reference for it. CP was abolished in NJ in the 19th century and by all indicators the educational process there was none the worse for the ban. Yeah you read these stories of "when I was a kid.....". So to those people I ask , Do you let your kid stand up in the front seat when you drive? Do you let your kids get on their bike and disappear for 10 hours at a time in the summer? Point being, there were lots of ways kids were treated and supervised differently 50 years ago, its time to admit that evidence shows this is a loser.

Corporal punishment is much more common in the southern states -- more part of the culture for some reason.

I know California is considered crazy liberal but you literally never see a parent spank their children here, and although I'm sure it happens, no one ever discusses it openly.

The culture here is that it is socially unacceptable and considering that many move here from elsewhere, it shows the power of social influence. The exact opposite forces seem to be at work in Oklahoma and Texas.

My grandma hit me with a switch once. That was the only time she ever had to do it. I remember it leaving marks like those in the picture. I put my hand back behind me to stop the blows, it left a mark on my hand. Switches hurt like a son of a bitch. I have no doubt in my mind that when Adrian Peterson was growing up, he got hit with a switch that left similar marks. If you want to call it child abuse, then okay, but then virtually every person who has ever used a switch was guilty of child abuse. It always leaves marks like that.

I believe corporal punishment has its place. It has to be used carefully though.

Such an unfortunate incident for Adrian Peterson. I'm sure his intentions were to correct his son's inappropriate behavior. Sometimes these athletes don't realize their own strength.

My mom, taught me to:


1. Never discipline a child when you are angry.
2. Only resort to corporal punishment when it involves the child's safety.
3. If you have to get physical; only get the meaty parts (buttocks).
4. Once they reach 13, never put your hands on a child.

You don't have to apply force when you hit a child, the fact that they are being disciplined is enough. Fortunately, I only had to use corporal punishment with one of my children, one girl and two boys (She was the oldest).


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Such an unfortunate incident for Adrian Peterson. I'm sure his intentions were to correct his son's inappropriate behavior. Sometimes these athletes don't realize their own strength.

My mom, taught me to:


1. Never discipline a child when you are angry.
2. Only resort to corporal punishment when it involves the child's safety.
3. If you have to get physical; only get the meaty parts (buttocks).
4. Once they reach 13, never put your hands on a child.

You don't have to apply force when you hit a child, the fact that they are being disciplined is enough. Fortunately, I only had to use corporal punishment with one of my children, one girl and two boys (She was the oldest).


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif


You feel bad for Peterson? Not the FOUR year old boy that required medical attention?

I'm not defending AD but good intentions do matter in the eyes of the law and otherwise.

Also, there is a very strong culture in certain parts of the country where these types of whoopin's are completely acceptable.

Unfortunately for him, this situation will be used as an example. But it often takes a high profile case to call the public's attention to an important issue.

It also comes with the territory when you reap the benefits of being paid millions for performing in the public eye.

I would always get the "this is going to hurt me worse than it will hurt you" speech by my parents. If I only had twitter and a camera back then, I could have put my parents away for good, oh and grandma too.

Whatever happens with AD, this has really brought about good discussion about raising kids. It's also brought back many memories as to how I was punished with switches, belts, rulers, etc.

Wasn't this case already dismissed once and now it's being brought back for a 2nd grand jury that saw it differently?
It seems like the Ray Rice situation may have had an effect on the second grand jury decision.

Imagine if there was a video of this incident.

Good grief, the sight of a huge professional football player beating a naked 4 year-old with a tree branch is almost too awful to visualize.

But this sort of thing happens all the time and just like with AD, the parent believes they are doing the the right thing.

Imagine if there was a video of this incident.

Good grief, the site of a huge professional football player beating a naked 4 year-old with a tree branch is almost too awful to visualize.

But this sort of thing happens all the time and just like with AD, the parent things they are doing the the right thing.

Any parent disciplining their child on video or with pictures could be awful to watch or see, verbal or physical.

True story, last week I was google searching how to punish a 4 year old boy. I have one and I was at the point that none of the "new parenting" techniques were working. I've raised a few other boys too and the 4 year mark can be very challenging.

I won't say what I did because in today's society rubbing your dogs nose in the pee carpet stain is animal abuse. And no I did not do that to my son.

You can discipline a child without using your full strength. Just because a football player is big doesn't mean he's using any more force than grandma did.

I won't say what I did because in today's society rubbing your dogs nose in the pee carpet stain is animal abuse. And no I did not do that to my son.

I don't know about animal abuse, but it absolutely doesn't work, and anyone who takes even a few minutes to think and read about it would understand that. Yet, I have smart, educated friends who still do this.

It's a great metaphor for the much more important issue of disciplining a child.

The really sad and telling thing is that AD sincerely thought he was doing the right thing. He was very forthcoming with his child's mother and the authorities and seemed to be legitimately surprised there has been such a big fuss.

He even said something to the effect of "it's how I was raised myself".

This way of thinking needs to be challenged on a national level. On the OU message boards I would say 75% of the people have said the same thing: "I got a switching when I was a kid." And then most go on to say they've done similar things to their own children.

Why on earth has this been passed on from generation to generation without any critical thought?

I know there are underlying psychological reasons -- such as men in particular feeling this sort of things toughens kids up and teaches them right from wrong -- but it's astounding that in this day and age we are still beating children with tree branches and even more astounding that it's pretty much socially acceptable.

Having more and more of this type of thing reported with the authorities getting involved is probably the only way this will change in a significant way.
Discipline methods other than corporal punishment work well but there are tradeoffs. For things like "time out" to work, it takes a caregiver with an mature/even temperament, it requires consistency, it often falls apart when the parent lacks control of an environment (for example, when they are shopping or otherwise in public). If a child is too young to reason with/tired/excited/exhausted, there are few methods to control them, civilize them, and keep them safe, especially away from home. Children old enough to want a game, gadget or privilege can often be reasoned with but plenty of children are simply too imature or unstable for this to mean anything. Toss in a caregiver who is untalented at parenting/inconsistent/impaired, etc., and you often end up with a child who is practically feral, even if the other parent is "good" at it. I personally believe time out is better but for young/exhausted/immature/untalented parents, I think a swat on the butt to keep them from running in the street of behaving like savages is far preferable than letting them run wild - which we see all the time. Better to just take a child home if they can't behave but what we see are parents who just give up. That's not parenting. That is training their children to be unruly. Parenting is hard. "Good" parents don't discipline part time/when it is easy. That doesn't mean you beat the child but it does mean you have a responsibility to teach them to behave. Most of us are pretty understanding and tolerant of how tough it is but there is no excuse to allow a child to be a brat.

AD posted this to his Twitter account:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxmFTT5CcAAEdcG.jpg

AD's comments about loving his son, learning better ways and feeling bad about it are very typical of most of my excessive discipline cases. Some people just don't know a better way but nearly all of them would tell me, later, that they learned a lot from parenting classes and were glad they took them. Even the ones furious that they were questioned. IMO, all parents should take age appropriate parenting classes to get ideas.

Discipline methods other than corporal punishment work well but there are tradeoffs. For things like "time out" to work, it takes a caregiver with an mature/even temperament, it requires consistency, it often falls apart when the parent lacks control of an environment (for example, when they are shopping or otherwise in public). If a child is too young to reason with/tired/excited/exhausted, there are few methods to control them, civilize the, and keep the, safe, especially away from home. Children old enough to want a game, gadget or privilege can often be reasoned with but plenty of children are simply too imature or unstable for this to mean anything. Toss in a caregiver who is untalented at parenting/inconsistent/impaired, etc., and you often end up with a child who is practically feral, even if the other parent is "good" at it. I personally believe time out is better but for young/exhausted/immature/untalented parents, I think a swat on the butt to keep them from running in the street of behaving like savages is far preferable than letting them run wild - which we see all the time. Better to just take a child home if they can't behave but what we see are parents who just give up. That's not parenting. That is training their children to be unruly. Parenting is hard. "Good" parents don't discipline part time/when it is easy. That doesn't mean you beat the child but it does mean you have a responsibility to teach them to behave. Most of us are pretty understanding and tolerant of how tough it is but there is no excuse to allow a child to be a brat.

Would you not agree that for CP to be administered it also calls for a caregiver to have a mature and even temperament? If a child is taken to a store and the child is to tired or exhausted to reason with, might it call for the caregiver to leave the facility altogether and just go home? While I do not sanction letting a child run wild, I certainly do not sanction spanking a tired child for the convenience of shopping now, rather than later.

AD posted this to his Twitter account:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxmFTT5CcAAEdcG.jpg

UPDATED: EXCLUSIVE Details On Adrian Peterson Indictment Charges « CBS Houston (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/exclusive-details-on-adrian-peterson-indictment-charges/)

According to police reports, the child, however, had a slightly different story, telling authorities that “Daddy Peterson hit me on my face.” The child also expressed worry that Peterson would punch him in the face if the child reported the incident to authorities. He also said that he had been hit by a belt and that “there are a lot of belts in Daddy’s closet.” He added that Peterson put leaves in his mouth when he was being hit with the switch while his pants were down. The child told his mother that Peterson “likes belts and switches” and “has a whooping room.”

The issue I have with corporal punishment is that the line to do it or not do is very clear but once it's crossed, things become quite fuzzy, sometimes dangerously so.

It starts as a quick swat to get their attention and then often goes from there.

As a parent, I'd really like to make an advance, thoroughly thought-out decision just to take it completely off the table and have plenty of other options available.


I also want to make it clear that I don't judge parents who spank, as long as it's reasonable. But even then, I think people need to put more thought into this whole subject and as I mentioned before, that's the silver lining of this entire situation.

UPDATED: EXCLUSIVE Details On Adrian Peterson Indictment Charges « CBS Houston (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/exclusive-details-on-adrian-peterson-indictment-charges/)

According to police reports, the child, however, had a slightly different story, telling authorities that “Daddy Peterson hit me on my face.” The child also expressed worry that Peterson would punch him in the face if the child reported the incident to authorities. He also said that he had been hit by a belt and that “there are a lot of belts in Daddy’s closet.” He added that Peterson put leaves in his mouth when he was being hit with the switch while his pants were down. The child told his mother that Peterson “likes belts and switches” and “has a whooping room.”

Yeah, that's a bit scary.

But this is all a matter of degree, isn't it? I bet if caught slapping a kid in the face he'd make the same points (it happened to me, I meant it out of love, etc). Every parent has their own standards for what is too much.

And as stated, that's what I don't like about corporal punishment. Once you make the decision to strike a child, there are far too many variables and opportunities for lapses in judgment.

Would you not agree that for CP to be administered it also calls for a caregiver to have a mature and even temperament? If a child is taken to a store and the child is to tired or exhausted to reason with, might it call for the caregiver to leave the facility altogether and just go home? While I do not sanction letting a child run wild, I certainly do not sanction spanking a tired child for the convenience of shopping now, rather than later.
Oh, absolutely in a perfect world, cp should be administered calmly, if at all. But fact is, there are a lot of immature, tired, stressed out parents (and single parenthood, which is common, makes it all the more difficult). In a perfect world, every child would have two sober, kind, well adjusted and patient parents with good grandparents, aunts and uncles to step in when the parents are stretched thin or the child is on their last nerve. All too often what we have are lots of two hard working parents or single parents, worn to a frazzle, and grandparents raising grandkids fulltime when they are past the age they can reasonably keep up. A few families manage a stay at home caregiver but many of them are, as a result, living paycheck to paycheck with the stress that comes with that.
And my point was not that you should spank in public, actually. My point is that absent consistency (which shopping and the like upends), time out and that sort of thing is often haphazardly employed. To work, it needs to be consistent. Exhausted parents so often just want some peace and quiet at the end of the day and will grow callouses on their ears and blinders on their eyes to achieve that. The day when kids played all day and got their energy spent with a single working parent able to relax when they got home has gone with the wind. These days, exhausted parents come home to kids' homework and the need to pack them up to dance/sports, etc.

UPDATED: EXCLUSIVE Details On Adrian Peterson Indictment Charges « CBS Houston (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/exclusive-details-on-adrian-peterson-indictment-charges/)

According to police reports, the child, however, had a slightly different story, telling authorities that “Daddy Peterson hit me on my face.” The child also expressed worry that Peterson would punch him in the face if the child reported the incident to authorities. He also said that he had been hit by a belt and that “there are a lot of belts in Daddy’s closet.” He added that Peterson put leaves in his mouth when he was being hit with the switch while his pants were down. The child told his mother that Peterson “likes belts and switches” and “has a whooping room.”

If true, that's awful. Being a lawyer with many years in family court makes me skeptical. I'm not saying the child lied. I am saying I personally would need more information and even interview the child and want to know more about the mother, their relationship and the child before I'd assume he was telling the truth. This is a case with a lot of red flags that would make me cautious.

Another incident with another one of Peterson's sons just came out...

Another four year-old, this time with head injuries:

New accusations: Peterson injured another son while disciplining 4-year-old (http://www.khou.com/story/news/investigations/2014/09/15/new-accusations-peterson-injured-another-son-while-disciplining-4-year-old/15693941/)

Not at all shocking

The kid was three at time, he's four now. AD felt bad then too, but then the beating wouldn't have left a scar on his face if he would have sit still for the beating.

New accusations: Peterson injured another son while disciplining 4-year-old (http://www.khou.com/story/news/investigations/2014/09/15/new-accusations-peterson-injured-another-son-while-disciplining-4-year-old/15693941/)

Anyone want to defend him now?

NFL career ending and jail time coming up in 3...2...

Why is she bringing this out now rather than last June? Smelling $ now?

Why is she bringing this out now rather than last June? Smelling $ now?

Probably the lawyer on her side digging to find a pattern of abuse to take him completely down.