For quite a while people have lamented the lack of a good bookstore in the urban core.

Looking for ideas as to the best location for a independent bookstore in the Midtown / Automobile Alley areas.

An obvious choice would be somewhere on Auto Alley, but with everything getting ready to pop on 10th -- including lots of new residential units nearby -- maybe somewhere along that corridor would work as well. Perhaps the space at 320 NW 10th in front of R&J Supper Club? Or even the old Meg Guess building on Walker?

There will be retail space at both the Edge and Lift; more on 10th right next to Fassler Hall and Dust Bowl. Still space in both the Buick and Pontiac buildings.

Where would you like to see such a store?

The DT Auto repair shop building located at 314 NW 10th. It will be just south of Bleu Garten and next door to the other auto shop that all the cars out front for so long. Also, 1120 N Walker. There are a couple of hair salons there now but it would be close to all of Midtown. Both buildings are about the size I envision for a book store.

It was talked about once upon a time, but I'd love to see Full Circle move to Midtown. To me, Midtown just fits a bookstore better than Auto Alley, but I'm not sure what building.

The old Flower District on Broadway Circle and Park Place would be perfect. Gut all those old warehouses, combine them and have Full Circle's whole new book selection plus also a giant space for used books.

I think one of the old houses on Shartel between 10th and 13th would be cool. There is one for lease or at least was for lease. All the rooms could make for great reading rooms. Put a coffee shop in the basement and you got a hip bookstore / reading room.

Just to be clear, this wouldn't be for Full Circle.

Just to be clear, this wouldn't be for Full Circle.

I thought we were just spitballing here. But apparently there is at least a modicum of intrigue here...

Just to be clear, this wouldn't be for Full Circle.

It was just the bookstore we had used as an example in prior discussions. But I do think a bookstore (any one) would best fit in Midtown.

I'm saying that there may be someone interested in opening a bookstore, but it's not Full Circle.

Trying to help them think through the best place to locate, and since so many people have said that this is exactly the sort of thing that is needed in the area, was hoping to get more feedback, especially from the people most likely to patronize the business.

I'm saying that there may be someone interested in opening a bookstore, but it's not Full Circle.

Trying to help them think through the best place to locate, and since so many people have said that this is exactly the sort of thing that is needed in the area, was hoping to get more feedback, especially from the people most likely to patronize the business.

It depends on the direction and the capital involved. I think the best chance of success would be my idea of taking over the flower district and making it a destination, ala Powell's in Portland. But this would be very capital-intensive and good luck getting financing for a bookstore.

On the other hand a smaller boutique-type place in an old house could be charming but would have a lower chance of success, in my opinion, considering the volume of books needing to be sold to cover the presumably high rents in Midtown.

It would almost need to be a [something] and bookstore combo, where the [something] generated most of the cash flow, but the bookstore was the customer draw, wouldn't it? That, or be a vanity project by Midtown R where they do it solely to make the neighborhood better, which would in turn let them charge a premium for their other rents.

My favorite bookstore is The Book Loft, in Columbus. It's HUGE, and in converted historic commercial space.

Something Near either elemental or OCU law.

It would go great in the Plaza District, in the renovated area of the Plaza Discount Store, but that wasn't the question...

I've thought the buildings to the east of Red Rooster on 30th would make a good coffee shop/book store combo. Who owns those buildings, anyway?

Midtown for sure. Unfortunately, I think the BEST area to put it in would be in that 6th to 8th range…but that's still a very dead part of town.

What's in that building on the SW corner of 9th/Robinson? I'd say in general, the closer to OCUL, the better. It would be awesome if it were incorporated into a new development on the lots just to the north of the OCUL.

I haven't really looked but if I were putting in a bookstore I would go in along auto alley between 6th and 10th.

The problem with Auto Alley is there is so much traffic, and it will only continue to heighten over time. So it will always be loud.

New build or renovation?

Not new construction -- looking for existing space.

How about in the retail space of the new garage going in at 5th/Robinson? Pretty close to OCUL.

Not new construction -- looking for existing space.

Too bad the Garage took the entire ground floor space of the Guardian. Those huge windows and the church across the street is really an inspiring and majestic view of a very intimate urban setting. Perfect for reading and Robinson is a pretty light volume street in the area and both directions of the streetcar will pass by that intersection.

The unused part of Brown's Bakery fronting 10th?

Or Steve Mason's big building on 8th behind S&B burger.

Do you know what square footage they're thinking?

What's in this building:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4755437,-97.5192768,3a,75y,275.14h,89.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sypt2G7g7oGlEN3iJYx5NOQ!2e0

The unused part of Brown's Bakery fronting 10th?

I think you are on to something special here. Donuts and Books that's a match made in heaven.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.476831,-97.5161392,3a,75y,274.06h,91.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1skM3Rgj53qQRW0yvGWjdVSw!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4760716,-97.515516,3a,75y,176.83h,85.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFJPqkDK0Z4mAPB2g8czosQ!2e0

I think you are on to something special here. Donuts and Books that's a match made in heaven.

Heh, sticky fingers, maybe not....

At the Friday Forum today, either Judy Hatfield or Jane Jenkins (can't remember which) said the #1 requested retail anything downtown is a book store. The joke was made that they don't think it is so people can buy books, but for the purposes of using free wi-fi. I laughed because that is what I feel like Cuppies & Joe has become.

Nowhere in Midtown/AA makes sense for this type of business. Midtown/AA is becoming a food/bar/entertainment business that is busy at lunch, and busy after 7pm - Close but nowhere in between. My main argument is high rent in the area and the low margins in retail these days. For that reason alone I would definitely advise against opening a stand-alone traditional "bookstore" in any city, anywhere.

However, people who want to do something usually end up doing it against all logical advice. So I agree that the Plaza is a better, more affordable rent. Or the Paseo (if any spaces were available). Also 23rd, particularly the 23rd Street Courts where my wife's event planning and floral design studio (Emerson Events) is located. There is a space next door to her (to the north) that is vacant, but currently being used for storage for odds/ends from the Guernsey Park buildout. I'm not sure that Marvin Tharasena (Tharasena Properties) would be interested in leasing it but might be worth a shot. But being so close to Cuppies and Joe would probably be a good thing. Traffic all day long there, that parking lot is always full and my wife gets plenty of interest from the visibility alone.

^

There is absolutely tons of retail in Auto Alley with several places getting ready to open soon.

There are also several new places getting ready to open in Midtown.

Midtown for sure. Unfortunately, I think the BEST area to put it in would be in that 6th to 8th range…but that's still a very dead part of town.

What's in that building on the SW corner of 9th/Robinson? I'd say in general, the closer to OCUL, the better. It would be awesome if it were incorporated into a new development on the lots just to the north of the OCUL.

My accounting office is on the fourth floor of that building at 9th and Robinson. The fisrt floor is a Physical Therapy business.

Seeing how well 9th street has done, 8th street has plenty of existing buildings. With the Metropolitan going in, 8th street would mean a short walk. The Lankford campaign will only be occupying 6 NW 8th for a short period. You could have a bookstore and other retail in this location, or even a small restaurant.

9140

Maybe it's just me but I don't get excited about a new book store anywhere. It just seems to be something that going to be going away eventually.

What about using part of the old Church of Christ the Scientist, or what ever it was, on Robinson north of the guardian? It's for lease and has been empty for awhile now.

That's a fantastic idea. It looks and feels like a library. The can't get a liquor license for that property anyway.

Why can't you get a liquor license for that property?

Maybe it's just me but I don't get excited about a new book store anywhere. It just seems to be something that going to be going away eventually.

I wonder about this myself. Do traditional book stores even have a future? I personally prefer to shop at a brick-and-mortar store if possible, but the future is what it is. Consumer entertainment such as books and electronics are all going online.

There is always room for places that reach out to the community, bring people together, host books clubs, etc.

You can buy virtually anything on-line these days yet lots of bricks and mortar places open and thrive all the time.

You have to deliver something compelling, not just a commodity.

There is always room for places that reach out to the community, bring people together, host books clubs, etc.

You can buy virtually anything on-line these days yet lots of bricks and mortar places open and thrive all the time.

You have to deliver something compelling, not just a commodity.

I definitely agree. That is why I try to shop brick-and-mortar if at all possible, even if I have to pay a little bit more. I believe society will have lost something huge if we ever get to the world where virtually all transactions occur through a website. I wonder how many people agree with me however.

Why can't you get a liquor license for that property?

I guess its possible. But based on conversations that I have had, in all likelihood First Baptist will protest since it is directly across the street. They have done so before.

In terms of a bookstore, mind you a community gathering space/coffee house/etc, that would be an awesome reuse of that building. I'd love a place other than Starbucks to go get a copy of the New York Times on Sunday and hangout.

They would protest ABC-2 (restaurant with food sales exceeding 50%)?

I'm actually getting really excited at the thought of this. When is the timeline your people are looking at Pete, or is this all hypothetical?

This is just in the planning stage which is why I am soliciting feedback.

Also, there is a strong desire to co-locate or be next to a place that serves coffee of juice or donuts or the like.

The idea is it to be a place to congregate, other than a bar.

This is just in the planning stage which is why I am soliciting feedback.

Also, there is a strong desire to co-locate or be next to a place that serves coffee of juice or donuts or the like.

The idea is it to be a place to congregate, other than a bar.

Again, Plaza District. You would have District House a few doors down.

Is there any room in the Plaza Court? They have Prairie Thunder. And, as someone brought up earlier, the retail space south of Elemental.

Again, Plaza District. You would have District House a few doors down.

Yes that is being considered but the preference is still the Midtown area.

Yes that is being considered but the preference is still the Midtown area.

I think that is key. This needs to be on the future streetcar route and plaza is many years out from that happening.

They would protest ABC-2 (restaurant with food sales exceeding 50%)?

I don't know. Obviously there wasn't a problem with The Garage and Packards (not sure whether The Garage is within 300' of their property line). As a restaurant, I see your point. I think past conversations have often been in the context of a dance club (which the place is supremely suited for if it wasn't directly next to a church).

And yes, I agree with other comments about the streetcar line. While I shouldn't compare this with Powell's in Portland, the conversation about it makes me think of Powell's. Such a cool bookstore right on the streetcar line. I read till about 2am one night before they kicked everybody out for their minimal closing hours.

First Baptist Church of OKC, by standards of Baptist churches in Oklahoma, isn't all that conservative. I don't see them putting up a big fit about an ABC-2 license. ABC-3 maybe, but not one where food sales exceeds 50%. I could be wrong though. It would be awesome to see it as a dance club if it wasn't so close to a church. As for the bookstore, I agree that Midtown would be better than the Plaza not only because of streetcar access but because population density will likely be significantly higher much sooner than it will be in the 16th St Plaza.

This is just in the planning stage which is why I am soliciting feedback.

Also, there is a strong desire to co-locate or be next to a place that serves coffee of juice or donuts or the like.

The idea is it to be a place to congregate, other than a bar.

With this in mind, it would seem that the Browns Bakery location could be a great spot. Centrally located with an already established breakfast location. Maybe spruce up the place a bit.

After some deliberation, I have decided to post on this thread. I am the individual pursuing the opening of a local, independent book store in Midtown/Auto Alley. I am also looking at uptown, on 23rd street. I LOVE all the feedback so far, but I am hungry for more.

Primarily, this will be a brick and mortar bookstore. Additionally it will provide Readers and creators a space to have fellowship with others. It will be a space for readings, signings, poetry slams, themed book clubs and swaps, etc.

Where would you like to see this establishment? What would you like to walk into the bookstore and find (other than books as I know I need to bring in more to the establishment). Are you interested in bartering your books for beer/wine/coffee? Do you want to read and then sell your book back? Would you like your book to be delivered to your doorstep if this were an option? Do you want more rare books or are you open to new and used?

I look forward to hearing from all of you :)

What's the most amount of space in terms of square feet you can imagine having? 0 - 1k, 1k - 2k, 2k - 4k, 4k+, 10k+? What all you could fit in to a concept is going to be at least partly determined by space. If it's big enough, you could do everything listed.

#1. Books…New, Used, Themed, Buy, Sell…I think it's less what you have, and more how you have it: Where is it placed, is the place easy to navigate. As far as buying/selling, is the system efficient and useful for patrons, are deals fair, etc?

#2. Reading space

#3. Food/Beverage (Wine & Beer if you can…you also might look at partnering with some business in the vicinity to "cater" (i.e. provide fresh products early in the day that you can sell throughout…a place like Old School Bagels or Kitchen No. 324)

#4. Social place --- Ideally this would be a space that could always be openly social, and have a separate sort of meeting space for events. If a smaller building, the reading space should be adaptable to this, but any events should be on certain days. You want people who want to come and read be able to do so, and those who want to come and socialize be able to do so, and if not everyday, at least on a predictable schedule.

As far as events/etc. go, that's going to ultimately depend a lot on your clientele and what demand is out there. You can do all sorts of meetings in a book store. I know that a Spanish club meets at Full Circle. Anything reading related is obviously a good-fit, but there may be opportunities for other things.

After some deliberation, I have decided to post on this thread. I am the individual pursuing the opening of a local, independent book store in Midtown/Auto Alley. I am also looking at uptown, on 23rd street. I LOVE all the feedback so far, but I am hungry for more.

Primarily, this will be a brick and mortar bookstore. Additionally it will provide Readers and creators a space to have fellowship with others. It will be a space for readings, signings, poetry slams, themed book clubs and swaps, etc.

Where would you like to see this establishment? What would you like to walk into the bookstore and find (other than books as I know I need to bring in more to the establishment). Are you interested in bartering your books for beer/wine/coffee? Do you want to read and then sell your book back? Would you like your book to be delivered to your doorstep if this were an option? Do you want more rare books or are you open to new and used?

I look forward to hearing from all of you :)

Wanted to quote this post to bring it forward; pagination cut it off and I want to make sure people see it so they can provide feedback.

What's the most amount of space in terms of square feet you can imagine having? 0 - 1k, 1k - 2k, 2k - 4k, 4k+, 10k+? What all you could fit in to a concept is going to be at least partly determined by space. If it's big enough, you could do everything listed.

#1. Books…New, Used, Themed, Buy, Sell…I think it's less what you have, and more how you have it: Where is it placed, is the place easy to navigate. As far as buying/selling, is the system efficient and useful for patrons, are deals fair, etc?

#2. Reading space

#3. Food/Beverage (Wine & Beer if you can…you also might look at partnering with some business in the vicinity to "cater" (i.e. provide fresh products early in the day that you can sell throughout…a place like Old School Bagels or Kitchen No. 324)

#4. Social place --- Ideally this would be a space that could always be openly social, and have a separate sort of meeting space for events. If a smaller building, the reading space should be adaptable to this, but any events should be on certain days. You want people who want to come and read be able to do so, and those who want to come and socialize be able to do so, and if not everyday, at least on a predictable schedule.

As far as events/etc. go, that's going to ultimately depend a lot on your clientele and what demand is out there. You can do all sorts of meetings in a book store. I know that a Spanish club meets at Full Circle. Anything reading related is obviously a good-fit, but there may be opportunities for other things.

Right now, I want to do something around ~2000 square feet. I would like it to be an open space, lots of windows as well as some quaint spaces in dark corners for the writing type. There will be plenty of seating to study, read, congregate. I also want there to be a private area that can be closed off off for different gatherings. I have some therapists interested in using the space for a group therapy setting. It would be perfect for private tutoring (something on the table as well) and other meetings of the sort.

I am doing new books and I am on the fence as I consider the used books (bartering old books for beer/wine/coffee and being able to return them for a few dollars less for what they were bought for will depend on if I do used books). There will always be a staff selection in front, I want more space for stock, less for display--whatever display there is will be bold. The books will be organized and easy to find. I am an avid reader with an English degree and I teach English--I plan to be very active in the store guiding readers to desired genres or needs. I plan to have an online database so that buyers are able to check out what is in stock at the time.

The book club, book swap and other events would be at certain times so that it does not interfere with shoppers or those that want to stay and read, write, hang out and socialize.

I want to have late hours to cater to the large student population in midtown. Possibly certain hours where the alcoholic beverages are served. I have considered collaborating with existing food/beverage providers--twist, hurts donuts, aspen coffee (edmond, stillwater native company) and am open to other suggestions in that area.

Right now, I want to do something around ~2000 square feet. I would like it to be an open space, lots of windows as well as some quaint spaces in dark corners for the writing type. There will be plenty of seating to study, read, congregate. I also want there to be a private area that can be closed off off for different gatherings. I have some therapists interested in using the space for a group therapy setting. It would be perfect for private tutoring (something on the table as well) and other meetings of the sort.

I am doing new books and I am on the fence as I consider the used books (bartering old books for beer/wine/coffee and being able to return them for a few dollars less for what they were bought for will depend on if I do used books). There will always be a staff selection in front, I want more space for stock, less for display--whatever display there is will be bold. The books will be organized and easy to find. I am an avid reader with an English degree and I teach English--I plan to be very active in the store guiding readers to desired genres or needs. I plan to have an online database so that buyers are able to check out what is in stock at the time.

The book club, book swap and other events would be at certain times so that it does not interfere with shoppers or those that want to stay and read, write, hang out and socialize.

I want to have late hours to cater to the large student population in midtown. Possibly certain hours where the alcoholic beverages are served. I have considered collaborating with existing food/beverage providers--twist, hurts donuts, aspen coffee (edmond, stillwater native company) and am open to other suggestions in that area.

I've thought about this a lot, and I think that while there are many decent candidates, one property rises above the rest. The "French Unique" building at 811 N Hudson. This is next door to Elemental Coffee. Elemental already has a great community hub thing going on, and your place could build off that energy. Elemental, though, can be busy and loud. A nice cozy bookshop could complement this energy, while still building off the critical mass of 7-day a week traffic next door. Also there would be opportunities for some collaboration on the food service/coffee front. You would probably need only half the building (I'd go for the "Unique" half). That half is probably about 2800 sq. feet on the ground floor. The second floor could also work as storage, offices for your group therapists, etc.

The space is ideally situated. I have no idea the condition of the interior. Looks like it is owned by Corsair Cattle Company and just sold in 2014.

Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R010325328)

Also I will add that the location I am suggesting is only a block away from the new OCU Law School.

I agree. I think that location would be perfect.

I really love the trading books for drinks idea. It's already a proven model with clothing in this city, and it creates great synergy with local shops. Keep in mind that people meet at bookstores and coffeeshops to collaborate. I hold a lot of appointments with people at these places and I personally take into account workspace (table area), noise level, and available seating. Random, but having scratch paper and pencils would be a very cool touch and might be a quick deciding factor for some people.

What kind of books will you focus on carrying? Or rather what can we not expect to find at your shop?

Bookstores have always been a great fascination for me. I love Full Circle, but I feel that it is in the wrong location. If I were opening a bookstore in OKC, I would look to successful independents in other cities. Aside from Full Circle, my favorites are Elliot Bay Book in Seattle, Powell's in Portland, Upstart Crow in San Diego, and Book People in Austin. But my absolute favorite is Tattered Cover in Denver.Each of these, I believe, provides community rooms for meeting. This is great public relations, and it brings customers in. It also gives you the ability to cater the meetings booked in the public spaces. When your community room is not booked, you might consider using it to show art films, foreign films, public domain classic films, or even first run independent films. In my opinion, OKC is badly underserved in this area. You could also offer literature-oriented classes to retirement homes, pubic schools, or the general public. For example, offer a series of classes studying a screen play topped by a screening of the film you've studied. Or, hold a series of poetry appreciation classes followed by a poetry recital. In general, public spaces in bookstores can be used for a variety of purposes, and you will not need to rely solely on books and coffee to attract customers.

I still like the old Church of Christ the Scientist building. It's a little farther from the law school, but not much.