I'll apologize in advance for this question... but I was up in Tulsa a few days ago and just wondering if anyone has heard of us getting any of these restaurants down here in OKC. Fuddruckers, Einstein Bagels, La Madeleine or Carrabba's. I know we did have a Carrabba's a few years back and it closed, I think the location it was in wasn't that great. I believe it would have done better somewhere on NWE. Anyway, has anyone heard of these companies scouting out areas around here?

Yes, we had a Carrabba's but I didn't care much for it. We also had Fuddruckers. They left town about the same time that Longnecker's left, not sure why, I thought they were both good.
C. T.

I have a favorite restaurant that doesn't have a location in Oklahoma, but they would like to locate here. They need a franchisee and asked me if I would when I called and asked if they are coming. My problem is that I don't have the big$$$$ for one and the time to own one. Now if someone is serious in wanting a successful franchise ....? If only I had the big bucks.........

I have a favorite restaurant that doesn't have a location in Oklahoma, but they would like to locate here. They need a franchisee and asked me if I would when I called and asked if they are coming. My problem is that I don't have the big$$$$ for one and the time to own one. Now if someone is serious in wanting a successful franchise ....? If only I had the big bucks.........

what restaurant?

Einstein Bros according to their Web Site is showing 2 locations in the OKC area. It is showing 1 at the FAA center and one at the University of Oklahoma, however, no other locations in OKC. Carabba's location in OKC was on the Memorial Road Corridor but closed sometime a while back? Seemed to me to be a great location. The Carabba's here in the Dallas area all seem to do a great business and have been opened for quite some time. LaMadelines in OKC? Was told by a manager in Frisco a while back, that the Tulsa store was not performing to their expectations so they have ruled out an OKC location?? Maybe in the future, LM will reconsider. I could see this working well in OKC especially in Classen Curve or Penn Square area. Also one in Edmond and Norman.

Fuddrucker's has been closing stores all over, they were based in Austin and I know of 4 locations there that were closed in the time that I lived there. We used to frequent the South Lamar location often when I first lived there but the quality fell off rather quickly and that was noted to be their "flagship" location. We go to Carrabba's often here in Denver, we didn't have one in South Austin so we went to Johnny Carino's until Mandola's Italian Market opened up near us. Damian Mandola was one of the founders of Carrabba's.

Fuddruckers and Cheesburgers In Paradise were both bought out of from bankruptcy by Luby's. The Pappas family bought controlling interest in Luby's and branched out with the purchase of Fuddrucker's and CIP.

When I first moved to Austin Fuddrucker's had relocated their HQ from San Antonio to Austin, I interviewed as a design concept director for them but didn't get the job. The South Lamar store was redone but it looked like they had no defined concept and it was a stab at several different design themes. They definitely went through some difficulties in the years before we left Austin, I didn't know Luby's had them now.

When I first moved to Austin Fuddrucker's had relocated their HQ from San Antonio to Austin, I interviewed as a design concept director for them but didn't get the job. The South Lamar store was redone but it looked like they had no defined concept and it was a stab at several different design themes. They definitely went through some difficulties in the years before we left Austin, I didn't know Luby's had them now.

Bluedog, Here's the latest concept they've been testing, and apparently working well...
Luby's, Inc. Brings Twice The Taste To Webster Today With The Greater Houston Area's Third New Build, Side-By-Side Luby's And Fuddruckers Restaurant Location - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lubys-inc-brings-twice-the-taste-to-webster-today-with-the-greater-houston-areas-third-new-build-side-by-side-lubys-and-fuddruckers-restaurant-location-2014-08-14)

what restaurant?

The restaurant that I'm talking about, I'm keeping to myself, if someone was really interested in find a franchise restaurant to open, then I would discuss it with them. I just dont' have the big bucks and don't want to mortgage myself into debt and risk my retirement money. Its do able the parent company is looking for someone to enter the Oklahoma market. I did talk with a franchise owner who lovers being an owner/operator.

Burger competition is beyond intense in okc. A chain that will do well in any other city struggles here. Smash burger being a perfect example. If I was opening a franchise in this city there's no way in hell I'd open a burger joint and go head to head with these
S&B
Nics
Republic
Patty wagon
Johnnies
Charcoal over
Urban johnnies
Kaisers
Mcnellies
Abrahams
Tucker's
The garage

You better be a unique chain to compete with that (and more that I'm probably not remembering).

^
Bingo. For the same reasons, I do not get the hype over In-n-Out Burger. Is it because its from California and therefore must be cool? The food is good but merely a step up from Mickey Ds. It has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of good burger places in OKC.

Any burger chain coming to Oklahoma would need to bring their A-game, and I feel that a lot do not come here for this exact reason.

Do many eateries like Carrabba's that enter a market and then leave completely, really come back into the market?
Probably are some examples out there, but none are leaping to mind.

Do many eateries like Carrabba's that enter a market and then leave completely, really come back into the market?
Probably are some examples out there, but none are leaping to mind.

Dairy Queen would be the closest that comes to mind.

Ihop

Burger competition is beyond intense in okc. A chain that will do well in any other city struggles here. Smash burger being a perfect example. If I was opening a franchise in this city there's no way in hell I'd open a burger joint and go head to head with these
S&B
Nics
Republic
Patty wagon
Johnnies
Charcoal over
Urban johnnies
Kaisers
Mcnellies
Abrahams
Tucker's
The garage

You better be a unique chain to compete with that (and more that I'm probably not remembering).

I would add 5 Guys to the list one of ones I don't think will make it.

Johhnies is still my favorite.

Last I heard 5 Guys was doing fine. How many locations do they have? I know of just the one by Quail Springs

There's one on NW Expressway.

I would add 5 Guys to the list one of ones I don't think will make it.

The one in Moore seems to be doing fine..... Smashburger in Moore never looks very busy...... Best burger in Moore is over at 4th and Eastern at Heroes Burgers & Moore (http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/46/1837847/restaurant/Oklahoma-City/Heroes-Restaurant-Moore)

Last I heard 5 Guys was doing fine. How many locations do they have? I know of just the one by Quail Springs

There is still one in Norman. I suppose folks do still go there.
Tried it twice. Neither time did it merit a permanent berth in the top six, and I rarely ever make it down the list even to number three, so it's been a no go for me for most of the time it has been open.

Do many eateries like Carrabba's that enter a market and then leave completely, really come back into the market?
Probably are some examples out there, but none are leaping to mind.
I think it has more to do with the reasons for leaving the market and if the company has changed hands. A lot of chains have gone into bankruptcy and been bought by another chain or VC firm. If they are franchised sometimes it is due to franchisor issues more than market issues. It wouldn't surprise me for some to come back if there were circumstances beyond the current owners control.

I seem to recall that Carraba's did a little dance up there on Memorial Restaurant Row a few years ago.
We (my wife and I) gave it a try. To the best of my recollection, it was slightly better than Johnny Carino's.
I guess the primary difference is: Johnny Carino's is still in business.
The Modern Multi-National Corporate Restaurant Management Business is, indeed, something to behold.
Not necessarily to dine at more than once.
Especially over on Memorial Road. =)

Frankly, if we are discussing Restaurant Reruns . . .
I'd like to see Bahama Breeze make a reappearance.
Of course, for the sake of ambiance, they would have to build a lake.

And, until Rao's OKC gets approval from all government entities and an Indian Casino Tribe
I will be perfectly content with Vito's.

Please don't drag the assembled, then disassembled and moved to points unknown Kodiak Steakhouse, back to Memorial Road. It would be embarrassing, fruitless, and sort of stupid.

I think it has more to do with the reasons for leaving the market and if the company has changed hands. A lot of chains have gone into bankruptcy and been bought by another chain or VC firm. If they are franchised sometimes it is due to franchisor issues more than market issues. It wouldn't surprise me for some to come back if there were circumstances beyond the current owners control.

Might I suggest that the use of the phrase "VC firm" might have unintended negative connotations to a certain demographic of the eatin' public? =)

So . . . How about . . . A restaurant concept . . . involving French (world) Cuisine . . . called . . . McNamara's Frog of War . . ?
It could be tried out in Austin and Boulder to see if it would play on the road . . .
Plus, with a little Creole/Cajun/Scottish Newspin . . . it could be a Hit!
(for a year or two)

I emailed Carrabba's yesterday and got 2 responses...

Hello, Just wondering if you were possibly reconsidering coming back into the Oklahoma City market.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
Ron C

The first response:
Good Morning Ron!

Thank you for your inquiry. We have an internal Analytics Department that determines our target markets for growth.

We are currently looking for additional locations around the country. There is a lot involved when choosing a site and many factors that determine where we choose to put the next Carrabba's Italian Grill. We hope to have a location closer to you soon. Keep watch on our website to find out where we will be opening in the near future. In the meantime, we hope to see you in your travels!

Thank you for your interest in our concepts!

Terri Duncan
Executive Assistant to
Michael Casey, VP of Real Estate and
Annette Rodriguez, VP of Development

Bloomin' Brands, Inc.


The second response:

Ron,
We may consider coming back to OKC. We are working on our prototype before we consider any new deals at the moment. Thanks for reaching out.

Tyler Grisham
Vice President
Edge email

You might think about redacting the guy's contact info - especially stuff like his cell # - from a message board post.

LaMadelines in OKC? Was told by a manager in Frisco a while back, that the Tulsa store was not performing to their expectations so they have ruled out an OKC location??

I never understood the reasoning behind this thinking. I read somewhere that if the Costco did not do well in Tulsa, they will not come to OKC. Just because one store does not do well in one city, does not mean it will not do well in the other.

I seem to recall that Carraba's did a little dance up there on Memorial Restaurant Row a few years ago.
We (my wife and I) gave it a try. To the best of my recollection, it was slightly better than Johnny Carino's.
I guess the primary difference is: Johnny Carino's is still in business.
The Modern Multi-National Corporate Restaurant Management Business is, indeed, something to behold.
Not necessarily to dine at more than once.
Especially over on Memorial Road. =)

Frankly, if we are discussing Restaurant Reruns . . .
I'd like to see Bahama Breeze make a reappearance.
Of course, for the sake of ambiance, they would have to build a lake.

And, until Rao's OKC gets approval from all government entities and an Indian Casino Tribe
I will be perfectly content with Vito's.

Please don't drag the assembled, then disassembled and moved to points unknown Kodiak Steakhouse, back to Memorial Road. It would be embarrassing, fruitless, and sort of stupid.
I believe the Carrabba's in OKC was a franchise and that franchiser was ultimately the one that failed, just like the OKC Black Eyed Pea franchiser failed. There are still Black Eyed Pea locations here in the Denver area, the franchise owner here negotiated a separation agreement that allowed him to continue on using the name "Colorado Black Eyed Pea" but it is much the same.

The old Kodiak cabin is up here in the mountains somewhere as someones house.

LaMadelines in OKC? Was told by a manager in Frisco a while back, that the Tulsa store was not performing to their expectations so they have ruled out an OKC location??

I never understood the reasoning behind this thinking. I read somewhere that if the Costco did not do well in Tulsa, they will not come to OKC. Just because one store does not do well in one city, does not mean it will not do well in the other.Tulsa has a better national image and the demographics look better on paper. That is becoming history and once OKC can really increase the population gap that will help. Also as our city gets more dense and more higher income areas with less poor people, that will be better.

Tulsa has a better national image and the demographics look better on paper. That is becoming history and once OKC can really increase the population gap that will help. Also as our city gets more dense and more higher income areas with less poor people, that will be better.

The demographics for restaurants in Tulsa look good because of a far more concentrated area of middle to upper class incomes. It's scattered all about in Oklahoma City.

Also, for 100 years Tulsa enjoyed a higher national profile than OKC, for various reasons. Until very recently if you asked someone from another part of the country to name the largest city in our state they would have told you T-town. It's still probably the case for many. That's one of the reasons landing the Thunder was so important; it raised our national profile and wordlessly communicated to those who don't already know that OKC is a major city.

Oklahoma is already an afterthought state to much of the rest of the US. Being an afterthought city in that afterthought state means being passed over or at the very least being last in line for the types of amenities everybody wants. Fortunately that is changing rapidly here.

I also believe Tulsa has a higher percentage of overall high-net-worth households and those making over $200K. Lots of old people living off of their oil overrides, I guess. But OKC has a larger percentage of upper middle class households, as in, those making $100-200K. Which tend to be your biggest consumers anyway.

Tulsa also enjoys a higher per capita income than OKC, which I know for a fact their officials use to frequently disparage OKC. What they don't say is Tulsa's overall median household income (i.e., what people actually have to spend) is only higher by a much smaller margin, which tells me there are some inefficencies in their economy. Does this really matter to the 24 year old marketing associates running spreadsheets at these retailers? By no means no...trust me I know one and he's not the brightest bulb.

Much like zookeeper alluded to, one thing that will always hurt OKC is the fact that wealth here is geographically spread out. Tulsa is very segregated, both from a racial and socioeconomic standpoint, which allows for islands of wealthy households to emerge. If getting better chains means going down a similar path here then I'll pass. OKC has always been an inclusive community despite it's conservative reputation; its not worth the social tension that would be created IMO. When bchris was in ultimate troll mode over this very subject, I remember a poster from St Louis bragging how the rich there wall themselves off and its allows for better "metrics" to be formed. In light of recent events, I can't help but to think said poster may be rethinking their stance.

Also, for 100 years Tulsa enjoyed a higher national profile than OKC, for various reasons. Until very recently if you asked someone from another part of the country to name the largest city in our state they would have told you T-town. It's still probably the case for many. That's one of the reasons landing the Thunder was so important; it raised our national profile and wordlessly communicated to those who don't already know that OKC is a major city.


I am having trouble thinking of another state where the second largest city has historically been more important and had a higher national profile than the largest city. Maybe South Carolina being that Charleston has a higher profile than Columbia. Kansas City is larger than St. Louis in Missouri but St Louis has the largest metro area. In Ohio, Columbus and Cinci both have a better national image than Cleveland, but Cleveland is still known to be the largest and most important city. Austin/San Antonio today may be comparable to how Tulsa/OKC once were. San Antonio is usually an afterthought compared to smaller Austin in the national conscience.

OKC already has the population advantage and is growing much faster. My guess is there will come a point where being a larger city will outweigh any spreadsheet advantage Tulsa may have. Question is, at what point will that happen?

You left out five guys which does really well.

You left out five guys which does really well.
What post are you responding to?

What post are you responding to?

Sorry i was lost. Thought i was posting on another topic