View Full Version : Price of pure gas



seajohn
07-25-2014, 02:49 PM
A couple of years ago, the story was that pure (non-ethanol) gas was higher than ethanol because the ethanol was receiving government subsidies. Then the subsidies supposedly expired.

Pure gas is still higher (30 cents more), and the delta seems to be even a little more than it was before the subsidy expiration.

Anybody know why?

Plutonic Panda
07-25-2014, 04:40 PM
well I would guess people can make more money with enthanol since it's pretty much just diluted gas. 1 tank of pure is gas like 10 tanks of enthonal if I remember correctly. Ethanol has to be one of the biggest scams I've ever seen.

Of Sound Mind
07-25-2014, 07:50 PM
well I would guess people can make more money with enthanol since it's pretty much just diluted gas. 1 tank of pure is gas like 10 tanks of enthonal if I remember correctly. Ethanol has to be one of the biggest scams I've ever seen.
Care to back those "facts" with any reputable sources?

Plutonic Panda
07-25-2014, 08:27 PM
Well, besides the fact I have monitored my own gas and found my mileage is reduced when I used ethanol, yeah I'll find some you when I get a minute

BrettM2
07-25-2014, 08:37 PM
Well, besides the fact I have monitored my own gas and found my mileage is reduced when I used ethanol, yeah I'll find some you when I get a minute

I never could tell a difference between the two though my parents swear by 100% gas. There's only ethanol where I live now so it isn't even an option.

kevinpate
07-25-2014, 10:16 PM
Plutonic, if E gas is 10-15% ethanol, your 1 tank to 10 tank ratio is a wee bit skewed, and by wee bit I mean you seem to be whizzing bad memories all over your calculator

Klop
07-25-2014, 11:15 PM
I was told from a reliable source, a manager at a gasoline wholesaler/distributor, that the stations are actually paying less now for 100% gas, but are still charging .10 cents/gallon more for it.

Why ? Because they can.

venture
07-25-2014, 11:44 PM
I was told from a reliable source, a manager at a gasoline wholesaler/distributor, that the stations are actually paying less now for 100% gas, but are still charging .10 cents/gallon more for it.

Why ? Because they can.

People will pay more for what they consider a premium product. I find it somewhat entertaining how much of a mark up there is not only between 100% gas and that with ethanol, and also the between the different grades. Before it was a typical 10 cents between...now much higher.

vaflyer
07-25-2014, 11:53 PM
The government requires refiners to mix a certain amount of ethanol into the gasoline supply. To encourage people to buy E10 or E15 to meet the government mandate, refiners raise the price on E0 (100% gas). If you eliminate the government mandate, then E0 prices will fall in line with their actual production costs.

gjl
07-26-2014, 11:33 AM
With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile (http://zfacts.com/p/436.html)

catch22
07-26-2014, 11:43 AM
I drive an older vehicle which was not designed for ethanol, on top of the poor gas mileage it would offer me, it would also deteriorate my rubber seals and flexible hoses much faster than pure blend.

I'm thankful we have 100% in most gas stations.

Also, the advertised grade of gas really isn't that accurate. 87 is closer to 83 octane.

ctchandler
07-26-2014, 01:17 PM
I know this thread is about the price of pure gas, but the price of ethanol for me was almost very expensive. My 2005 Gravely mower was a little over two years old when it began to die several times each time I mowed. I was ready to take it to the shop when I talked with them about the problem and one of the guys asked me if I was using ethanol. I told him I was and he said my manual said not to use it. He said drain both tanks and put fresh pure gas in it and it might be ok, if not, they would have to replace some seals and a few other things. It would have cost about $300, minimum. Turns out, after mowing one time with one occurrence of the problem, it hasn't happened again. To be fair though, the experts say if you use it in something like my Gravely, just be sure and run it dry at the end of the season and dispose of any ethanol left over in gas cans. The point of course was to purchase fresh gas/ethanol when the next mowing season came around. I was using Stabil and apparently, it didn't help with ethanol. I use ethanol in my Mercury and according to Ford, it's not a problem. I haven't had any problems and it's a low mileage 2006 Grand Marquis.
C. T.

Mel
07-26-2014, 01:17 PM
Before I knew the difference, gasohol about ruined my '79 El Camino. In my '07 Ford Five Hundred I do get better mileage from real gas.

rezman
07-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Corn ethanol fuel has not only been proven to be less efficient than regular unleaded fuel, it is more expensive to produce. The idea behind ethanol was to extend available fuel supplies, not to be an efficient alternative to regualr gas, which is what a lot of people have been fooled into believing. Studies have also shown that ethanol and it's production is actually worse on the environment than regular gas. Ethanol has been proven to be costly to consumers in the form of damage to their vehicles, and also in the related increase in cost for many other corn related products.

catch22
07-26-2014, 02:41 PM
One of my largest beefs with ethanol is we are using our food to fuel our vehicles. People are starving in this world and even in this country, and we are effectively pouring corn into our cars. It's incredibly selfish and short-sighted. At least with pure gasoline, no one was going to be drinking the oil anyway.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
07-26-2014, 02:53 PM
I love me some E85 corngas! I get an extra 50 horsepower at the rear wheels with it (as long as I change my tune).

Forced induction FTW.


It's still a silly idea. Sugar cane would be better...But hey! CORN FARMERS!

windowphobe
07-26-2014, 04:13 PM
The interaction of slightly higher octane and decidedly lower energy density suggests a reduction in fuel economy of about 4 percent when using E10 instead of E0. My own numbers for the last eight years fall in line with this figure.

The EPA currently advises that E15 or higher should not be used in cars older than 2001 unless they're certified flex-fuel, much to the annoyance of the Renewable Fuels Association.

Common ethanol fuel mixtures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures#mediaviewer/File:EPA_E15_warning_label.jpg)

bluedogok
07-26-2014, 08:07 PM
We don't have much of a choice here in Denver nor did we in Austin, E10 is all you can get at a gas station. The owners manuals for all of our cars no more than E10 is to be run in them, my motorcycle manual vehemently states this and so does the BMW car manual, the Toyota manual is less dire. I know my Honda mower, Echo trimmer and Homelite chainsaw don't like it even though the trimmer and chainsaw I have to mix with bean oil.

The EPA has been pushing for E15 to be the standard when very few vehicles are equipped to run it, mainly from the farm (ADM) lobbyists pushing congress.

Urbanized
07-27-2014, 08:41 AM
I've got 4K on my Triumph, and so far I've managed to avoid corn gas on all but two tanks, both when I was way out in the hinterlands and lucky to find any gas at all. Once it was at the only gas station for many miles in any direction and I rolled up just as she was locking the door for the day, around 3 in the afternoon. Had to beg her to turn the pumps back on.

Lots of pucker factor when your fuel light comes late on a scorching Sunday afternoon, out of cell range, 100 miles from home in western Oklahoma where podunk towns (that only *might* have a gas station) are spaced 20 miles apart and the last time you saw a car was a half hour ago. In those cases, I'll take the corn gas without complaint, thanks.

bluedogok
07-27-2014, 12:59 PM
I would get about 225 out of my Sprint, right now getting about 180 out of the Concours14. When we did the "sisters" ride out in the Hill Country (335, 336, 337) we had a regular fuel stop for those with smaller tanks to fill up before hitting them because the gas station in Leakey was open whenever they felt like it and that wasn't all that often on weekends when the heavy motorcycle traffic was riding out there.

ctchandler
07-27-2014, 01:04 PM
I just discovered that a UTV (Masimo) that I am keeping for my son requires 93 octane unleaded gas. Does anyone know what octane pure gasoline is, or does it vary like ethanol?
C. T.

gjl
07-27-2014, 01:10 PM
You can purchase 100% unleaded gas in 87, 89, 91, 93, and 100 octane in the OKC area. It doesn't have anything to do with the ethanol content.

ctchandler
07-27-2014, 01:30 PM
Gjl,
Sorry, I didn't tell the whole story, I have 17.5 gallons of pure gasoline in cans in my garage (for my mower and atv) and wanted to use it in the Masimo utv but a sticker above the filler says that it requires 93 octane, that's why I wondered about the octane of pure gasoline. I never noticed that I could choose the octane like I could on the ethanol pumps. Thanks for the response,
C. T.
You can purchase 100% unleaded gas in 87, 89, 91, 93, and 100 octane in the OKC area. It doesn't have anything to do with the ethanol content.

gjl
07-27-2014, 01:54 PM
Some stations only have 100% gas in 87. There is a Shell station by my house that has a 100% gas banner but only their 87 is 100%. If you buy their 91 octane, it is E10. All the On Cues I go to have 100% 87, 89, and 91 in addition to 87 E10. (might be 89) Most On Cues have quit selling E85. 100% 93, although not plentiful is available at a few select stations around. That station on Memorial and May, the Shell on Western and Avondale just N of 63rd used to have it and may still, a Sinclair on NE 23rd just E of Douglas, and the new VP Racing gas stations opening up have it. There is a new one of those on US 66 on the east side of Yukon I've seen.

Plutonic Panda
07-27-2014, 04:45 PM
You can purchase 100% unleaded gas in 87, 89, 91, 93, and 100 octane in the OKC area. It doesn't have anything to do with the ethanol content.I think in Nichols hills you can 105 octane rating.

gjl
07-27-2014, 06:26 PM
I think in Nichols hills you can 105 octane rating.

That is the station on Western and Avondale and it used to carry 100 UL. I haven't been there in a few years so it may be different. I'm not aware of a 105 that is unleaded.

bluedogok
07-27-2014, 06:48 PM
I think the VP racing fuel is the only 105 you can find anymore.

gjl
07-27-2014, 07:17 PM
I see VP has 105 in both leaded and unleaded.

VP RACING FUELS MASTER FUEL TABLE (http://www.vpracingfuels.com/master-fuels-table)

BBatesokc
07-27-2014, 08:33 PM
Looking for an article I read a couple of years ago that gave a calculation for when its best to buy 100% gas of gas with ethanol - strictly from a cost per mile perspective. I want to say the dividing line was around a $.28 per gallon premium. Meaning, if the 100% was less than $.28 more than ethanol then buy 100%. If more than $.28 then your better cost per mile was to stick with ethanol. Of course it depends on your specific vehicle, but that was the general theme. Just can't remember for certain if $.28 was the magic number or not.

For me, I've always only gotten about 2-4 miles per gallon better using 100% gas in most any car I've owned.

Larry OKC
07-30-2014, 02:18 PM
What I had read as that using 100% can increase your mileage by up to 10%. And before prices raced past the $2/gal mark, the most I would pay for 100% was 10 cents/gal. However, IF you get 10% better mileage, the roughly 10% premium (currently about 30 cents/gal) is acceptable. Since switching to 100% on the recommendation of my mechanic and costly repairs due to the long-term damage caused by running ethanol (2002 Ford F-150), I am getting about 75 miles more on a tank full than before. Granted I will probably be paying for damage already caused but at least I won't be making it any worse.

Remember reading awhile back, that along with the Feds increasing the amount of ethanol, there was also talk about banning 100% completely. Thats fine if you have a newer car that is designed for the stuff but I don't think you would ever get back the money in gas savings (with cheaper fuel & higher mileage) than the prohibitive cost of a new vehicle. The old one is bought and paid for and even with repairs is still cheaper than a new car payment. Or as expensive as they are now, a lease that you never own.

Zuplar
07-31-2014, 11:31 AM
Looking for an article I read a couple of years ago that gave a calculation for when its best to buy 100% gas of gas with ethanol - strictly from a cost per mile perspective. I want to say the dividing line was around a $.28 per gallon premium. Meaning, if the 100% was less than $.28 more than ethanol then buy 100%. If more than $.28 then your better cost per mile was to stick with ethanol. Of course it depends on your specific vehicle, but that was the general theme. Just can't remember for certain if $.28 was the magic number or not.

For me, I've always only gotten about 2-4 miles per gallon better using 100% gas in most any car I've owned.


That's probably not too far off, but like you said it all depends on the specific vehicle. The worse mileage in general your vehicle gets the bigger the difference you can get by with paying for clear gas. For most people out there with fullsize trucks and SUV's paying for 100% gas is almost always in their best interest.

kelroy55
07-31-2014, 11:50 AM
I got gas at Walmart for 3.18 yesterday so I'll stick with ethanol when I can get it that much cheaper.

Zuplar
07-31-2014, 12:10 PM
I got gas at Walmart for 3.18 yesterday so I'll stick with ethanol when I can get it that much cheaper.

Not sure what 100% gas was at that station (if it had it) but i paid $3.45 the other day at a shell for 100%. So an 8-9% increase in price, but a 15-20% increase in fuel mileage in my truck. So realistically, it's still cheaper to pay the higher price.

catch22
07-31-2014, 01:48 PM
The 7/11 at SW104th and Penn has 100% for $3.28

Zuplar
07-31-2014, 02:24 PM
The 7/11 at SW104th and Penn has 100% for $3.28

That station is usually pretty cheap when it comes 100% gas.