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Plutonic Panda
07-11-2014, 01:32 AM
a nice piece from NewsOk


Oklahoma City's sales tax exceeds expectations, but salary outlook is dim for metro-area workers

Oklahoma City’s budget year is off to a good start, a sharp reversal from this time last year.

The picture is cloudier for working people, though, based on the latest federal economic reports for the metro area.

The July sales tax check, the first of the new fiscal year, was for $35.1 million — up 5.7 percent over last year and well above the budget target of 3.9 percent growth. That’s a sharp departure from July 2013, when sales tax collections began the year down 3.4 percent.

Sales tax is the biggest single contributor to the budget and the primary source of cash for day-to-day services such as police and fire protection.

Oklahoma City expects overall sales tax growth of 2.8 percent this year, with higher collections from July to September and in January to March, said Doug Dowler, city budget director.

Based on those projections, the city council adopted a $1.1 billion budget that adds 92 positions. That brings the city’s authorized workforce to 4,672, up 2 percent.

The latest federal economic reports show metro-area employment on the upswing, but much of the growth is in lower-paying jobs.

The metro area added 3,600 jobs between April and May, bringing total employment to 626,600, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.

But employment in mining and logging — in Oklahoma, primarily the oil and gas industry — was flat for the month and down 2.9 percent from the same time last year. Service-providing jobs grew by 4,000 for the month and showed a 2.9 percent increase over May 2013.

- Oklahoma City's sales tax exceeds expectations, but salary outlook is dim for metro-area workers | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-sales-tax-exceeds-expectations-but-salary-outlook-is-dim-for-metro-area-workers/article/4987213)

Plutonic Panda
09-15-2014, 09:19 AM
Some good news


Oklahoma City’s August general fund sales tax collections were up 2.3 percent compared to the same month last year.

Collections for the month — which includes collections for the second half of June and the first half of July — totaled $18.3 million. Although the amount was up from last year, it was not as strong as economists had predicted.

The city also recently received its September sales tax check, which came in at 0.66 percent growth, putting the city at 2.85 percent growth for the first quarter of 2015. That is half a million dollars below the city’s target. August and September make the fifth and sixth consecutive months of increased sales taxes over last year, despite September coming in below estimates, OKC Budget Director Doug Dowler said via email.

Economists predict an overall better pace of growth for 2015 in Oklahoma City than what 2014 brought in, but not by much.

Dr. Russell Evans, Executive Director for the Steven C. Agee Economic Research and Policy Institute, said that his team predicts conditions for at least a 4 percent sales tax growth in OKC, which is one percent higher than what the city saw last year.

- City sales tax up; experts predict stronger 2015 growth | okc.BIZ (http://okc.biz/2014/09/15/city-sales-tax-up-experts-predict-stronger-2015-growth/)

Teo9969
09-15-2014, 11:57 AM
I feel like a lot of local money has probably been flowing into the Real Estate market instead of the Retail/Restaurant market in the last year. I've been shocked to see what homes in certain areas are selling for compared to just 12 months ago. If that is indeed occurring, that is probably a major reason why we missed sales tax estimates.

Plutonic Panda
09-24-2014, 12:56 PM
Oklahoma City Among The Nation's Fastest Growing Cities - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26615992/oklahoma-city-among-the-nations-fastest-growing-cities)

Laramie
09-25-2014, 02:34 PM
Oklahoma City Among The Nation's Fastest Growing Cities - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26615992/oklahoma-city-among-the-nations-fastest-growing-cities)

Oklahoma City ranked 9th among the 'Large City Names' by this same report: 2014?s Fastest Growing Cities | WalletHub® (http://wallethub.com/edu/fastest-growing-cities/7010/)



Large City Names
1. Austin, TX
2. Fort Worth, TX
3. New Orleans, LA
4. Denver, CO
5. San Antonio, TX
6. Corpus Christi, TX
7. Washington D. C.
8. Bakersfield, CA
9. Oklahoma City, OK
X. Columbus, OH


Six Oklahoma cities ranked within their categories:

Large City Names (63 cities in this category)
1. (9th) Oklahoma City - 610,613
2. (43rd) Tulsa - 398,121

Medium-Size City Names (243 cities in this category)
3. (48th) Norman - 118,197
4. (169th) Broken Arrow - 103,500

Small City Names (210 cities in this category)
5. (46th) Lawton - 97,151
6. (112th) Edmond - 87,004


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Plutonic Panda
09-25-2014, 03:58 PM
More good news!

Economic Output Rankings


Houston
San Jose
Denver
Raleigh
Oklahoma City


Houston and San Jose Are Leading U.S. Economic Growth - CityLab (http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/09/houston-and-san-jose-are-leading-us-economic-output-growth/380360/)

OKCRT
09-25-2014, 04:09 PM
When will OKC see all the new skyscrapers downtown? That's the real question. When new skyscrapers start popping out of the ground then people will take notice.

ChrisHayes
09-25-2014, 05:50 PM
When will OKC see all the new skyscrapers downtown? That's the real question. When new skyscrapers start popping out of the ground then people will take notice.

Hopefully in the next few years the skyline of Downtown will be dotted with sky cranes.

bchris02
09-25-2014, 06:03 PM
When will OKC see all the new skyscrapers downtown? That's the real question. When new skyscrapers start popping out of the ground then people will take notice.

I really want to see a skyscraper boom here as well. However, I think OKC will probably see more of a low/mid-rise and street-level urbanization boom. The city is already seeing massive low-rise residential developments like the Metropolitan rather than high-rise developments. The reason being is there is still so much cheap and undeveloped land in the core there isn't the incentive to go tall here, at least for spec space, that there is in other cities. Downtown OKC's best chance at getting buildings above 500 ft is to get another large corporate HQ like Devon. This is mostly my educated opinion so somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

ChrisHayes
09-25-2014, 08:41 PM
Nothing wrong with a mid or low rise boom. Especially if they take the place of small buildings. I imagine we'll see at least a few more high rises. There needs to be a big publicity push to draw business to the city

Laramie
09-26-2014, 12:24 PM
The market for office space & mid/high rise development downtown is on the rise.

Festival of the Arts Plaza (non profit offices) near Stage Center will have to be relocated. The annual Arts Festival will eventually find a permanent home in the new central park area.

Pete mentioned that we would hear something on October 6.

Cathy O'Connor, President of the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority:

O’Connor said this area of town will be an exciting transition between the Myriad Gardens, the Oklahoma City Boulevard, and the future convention center. “It probably is the best development parcel in downtown right now,” said O’Connor. The deadline for proposals to the area is October 6th.

Big changes coming popular Oklahoma City event | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2014/09/25/big-changes-coming-popular-oklahoma-city-event/)

We should have a clearer picture about development near the Stage Center prime parcel area.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Plutonic Panda
10-07-2014, 12:09 PM
Isn't OKC exactly, but certainly isn't bad news for us. Just to think if we taxed ourselves at the appropriate rates, how much more money we could have for funding education, roads and highways etc.

Oklahoma revenue reaches new heights in September - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26719395/oklahoma-revenue-reaches-new-heights-in-september)

Plutonic Panda
10-30-2014, 04:33 PM
Oklahoma City's unemployment dips | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-unemployment-dips/article/5361608)

Plutonic Panda
11-06-2014, 10:28 PM
Quarter horse show provides big boost to Oklahoma City area economy | News OK (http://newsok.com/quarter-horse-show-provides-big-boost-to-oklahoma-city-area-economy/article/5364285)

Urbanized
11-07-2014, 06:35 AM
Horse shows and conferences/conventions aren't inspiring to locals who want new toys for their own use, but it is some of the cleanest economic development we can perform; better even than corporate incentives to "buy" jobs. When people come to OKC for meetings, sports or horse shows, they transfer money from their own economy to ours. Loads of it. Then, with very little demand for other infrastructure or services, they leave after a few days (but their money stays). That cash infusion allows us to pay for even more services/toys/rides and general quality if life improvements than if we were dependent upon OKC residents alone.

So, while it's easy to hate on these types of projects - especially when you have a pet project of your own that you THINK is competing for funds - sometimes we would all benefit from stepping back and looking at the bigger picture.

Teo9969
11-07-2014, 01:50 PM
Influx of external resources > internal circulation of resources.

That's why it sucks when we don't make the finals. That's such a huge boost for the economy. Russell And Ibaka's playoff injuries potentially cost the city hundreds of millions of dollars.

bchris02
11-29-2014, 06:39 PM
Does anybody know how much of OKC's economy is dependent on the oil and gas industry? An article came out not long ago saying that 1 in 5 jobs in the state is oil and gas but I would imagine OKC is a little more diversified than the state as a whole. Does anybody have statistics?

Plutonic Panda
12-09-2014, 03:44 PM
Oklahoma City continues to have one of lowest unemployment rates in the nation | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-continues-to-have-one-of-lowest-unemployment-rates-in-the-nation/article/5374339)

Plutonic Panda
02-04-2015, 07:22 PM
OKC jobless rate falls in December | News OK (http://newsok.com/okc-jobless-rate-falls-in-december/article/5390543)

Plutonic Panda
02-05-2015, 07:30 PM
This is interesting. Cites a stable and diverse economy for an extremely high credit rating.


Standard & Poor’s, Moody’s reaffirm Oklahoma City’s AAA bond rating
(February 4, 2015) - For the fifth year in a row, Oklahoma City has earned the highest bond ratings possible from two of the nation’s most respected financial rating services.

The City’s general obligation bonds received an AAA rating from Standard & Poor’s and an Aaa rating from Moody’s Investor Service in reports released in January. Strong financial management practices, high reserve levels and a stable and diverse economy are three of the factors that led to Oklahoma City’s strong rating.

“Receiving the highest level of bond rating shows the strength of Oklahoma City’s economy, the continued support of our citizens, the leadership of the Mayor and City Council and the strong financial management practiced throughout the City organization,” said City Manager Jim Couch. “This is great measure of the success that has been experienced in Oklahoma City. We understand how valuable this is to our community, and we do not take it lightly.”

The reports put Oklahoma City in an elite group of major American cities with the highest ratings possible. The strong ratings allow the City to sell bonds at lower interest rates. The savings allow the City to spend more on bond projects like streets, bridges, sidewalks, trails and park improvements.

Other factors that contributed to Oklahoma City’s continued high rating include:

· Oklahoma City’s role as a regional economic center
· Low unemployment rate
· History of voter support
· Moderate debt levels

- City of Oklahoma City | News from OKCGOV (http://www.okc.gov/news/2015_02/Standard_and_Poors_Moodys_reaffirm_Oklahoma_Citys_ AAA_bond_rating.html)

hfry
02-05-2015, 07:51 PM
I agree that it's interesting because living here it hardly seems diverse with the control the oil companies have but the number or people tinker employees and hobby lobby's booming warehouse sector I bet helps a ton. Okc has always had a economical dived with the Canadian (Oklahoma) River with a huge working class to the south but I would guess most who live there don't work for an oil company. Maybe a decent amount in the service industry but going to school on the south side (Mount St. Marys) I noticed a large amount that worked at Tinker or other manufacturing type places.
I will say the History of voter support is a little questionable depending on what type of vote it is. The last mayoral election was embarrassing and I am curious how people can out and vote for the City council elections soon.

Plutonic Panda
02-05-2015, 09:16 PM
Agreed. I also think our tech and health sector is growing at a pretty good rate. We have the HSC or now it is called the Innovation District, Norman seems like it has a pretty decent tech field, and Moore has something going on I think that will have an HQ their for some tech company.

Oil and government still seem to be the dominant play by a long shot though.

Zorba
02-06-2015, 09:18 PM
I agree that it's interesting because living here it hardly seems diverse with the control the oil companies have but the number or people tinker employees and hobby lobby's booming warehouse sector I bet helps a ton. Okc has always had a economical dived with the Canadian (Oklahoma) River with a huge working class to the south but I would guess most who live there don't work for an oil company. Maybe a decent amount in the service industry but going to school on the south side (Mount St. Marys) I noticed a large amount that worked at Tinker or other manufacturing type places.
I will say the History of voter support is a little questionable depending on what type of vote it is. The last mayoral election was embarrassing and I am curious how people can out and vote for the City council elections soon.

I think by voter support they mean that voters tend to approve things like MAPS not that there is a high turn out.

Plutonic Panda
02-10-2015, 08:09 PM
Economist Predicts OKC's Future With Lagging Oil & Gas Prices - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/28074917/economist-predicts-okcs-future-with-lagging-oil-gas-prices)

bchris02
02-11-2015, 06:18 AM
This is depressing being that OKC really needs the growth to continue another few years. Steve posted an article not long ago outlining possible scenarios. So far, at least nobody is predicting a 1987 style bust. That was the one that nearly killed OKC.

Bellaboo
02-11-2015, 07:01 AM
This is depressing being that OKC really needs the growth to continue another few years. Steve posted an article not long ago outlining possible scenarios. So far, at least nobody is predicting a 1987 style bust. That was the one that nearly killed OKC.

This actually was what made OKC take notice and change. It resulted in not landing United, which in turn MAPS was born. We all know the rest of the story.
Probably the best thing that's ever happened to OKC.

Plutonic Panda
02-11-2015, 10:02 PM
At Oklahoma City Council budget workshop, economist says he expects 'slow growth' | News OK (http://newsok.com/at-oklahoma-city-council-budget-workshop-economist-says-he-expects-slow-growth/article/5392426)

Plutonic Panda
02-12-2015, 10:07 PM
Oklahoma City sales tax climbs, but forecast is dimmer | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-sales-tax-climbs-but-forecast-is-dimmer/article/5392670)

bombermwc
02-13-2015, 07:21 AM
People love to cry wolf here every time anything touches gas prices.

"Gas prices are up, the economy is going to tank and we'll have a billion dollar shortfall!!!!!"
"Gas prices are down, the economy is going to tank and we'll have a billion dollar shortfall!!!!!"

Hmmm, well one of those can't be right.......

Plutonic Panda
02-15-2015, 10:35 PM
Sliding oil prices will hit new Oklahoma City apartment market first if any, brokers say | News OK (http://newsok.com/sliding-oil-prices-will-hit-new-oklahoma-city-apartment-market-first-if-any-brokers-say/article/5393461)

Plutonic Panda
02-15-2015, 10:42 PM
Then there's this article

Oklahoma City apartment market is sailing higher seas than ever | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-apartment-market-is-sailing-higher-seas-than-ever/article/5393453)

Plutonic Panda
03-10-2015, 11:10 AM
Oklahoma City posts sales tax gain | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-posts-sales-tax-gain/article/5399872)

Plutonic Panda
10-27-2015, 10:40 AM
Oklahoma City to implement hiring freeze in November | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-to-implement-hiring-freeze-in-november/article/5456298)

Superhyper
10-27-2015, 11:51 AM
The dip in sales tax revenue is definitely not good news, as that means local businesses are pulling in less revenue as well. Considering the duration and severity in the drop of oil/gas prices, we've actually held up pretty well so far though.

Teo9969
10-27-2015, 12:56 PM
Yeah…Oil really needs to rally soon…I think we really only have about 7 months left where we can sustain the current pace of our economy @ current prices, and those last 8 months are going to be thinner than the previous 10.

The projected warm winter is also going to hurt local companies since most of our locals are pretty exposed to Natural Gas.

bchris02
10-27-2015, 01:02 PM
Yeah it's down in the low 40s again. Every time it tries to break above $50 the price collapses again. It seems this time of year usually sees the lowest oil prices so maybe it will rally this winter going into the spring.

Plutonic Panda
10-27-2015, 01:41 PM
Yeah…Oil really needs to rally soon…I think we really only have about 7 months left where we can sustain the current pace of our economy @ current prices, and those last 8 months are going to be thinner than the previous 10.

The projected warm winter is also going to hurt local companies since most of our locals are pretty exposed to Natural Gas.I could be wrong, but I was under the impression the El Nino affected us in the way we get colder than average temperatures and above average precip.

baralheia
10-27-2015, 01:52 PM
From https://www.climate.gov/news-features/videos/2015-16-winter-outlook:

1169511696

Oklahoma will range from average to below-average temperatures this winter, and wetter than normal too.

gopokes88
10-27-2015, 01:54 PM
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression the El Nino affected us in the way we get colder than average temperatures and above average precip.

But it makes the NE warmer then normal

Plutonic Panda
10-27-2015, 01:59 PM
Yeah I didn't know how it affected what exactly. My understanding is the west will also be above average temps but at least they are getting rain.

Plutonic Panda
10-29-2015, 05:56 PM
Oklahoma City unemployment rate declines | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-unemployment-rate-declines/article/5456679)

gopokes88
10-29-2015, 10:21 PM
OKC's economy is more diverse then people realize. An oil slump isn't going to crush us. However, it's not quite diverse enough to boom during an oil price slump. That being said very cities could boom with an industry slumping. Dallas, LA, Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston are probably the only ones could withstand something like this (probably others, but those are just off the top of my head)
Cities like New York slump in a bear market, San Francisco gets hurt in a tech bubble, Houston hurts with oil slumps, Detroit with cars, Nola when tourism stops, etc etc.

bchris02
10-30-2015, 02:24 PM
OKC's economy is more diverse then people realize. An oil slump isn't going to crush us. However, it's not quite diverse enough to boom during an oil price slump. That being said very cities could boom with an industry slumping. Dallas, LA, Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston are probably the only ones could withstand something like this (probably others, but those are just off the top of my head)
Cities like New York slump in a bear market, San Francisco gets hurt in a tech bubble, Houston hurts with oil slumps, Detroit with cars, Nola when tourism stops, etc etc.

I agree with this.

I have been told that the 1980s was as severe as it was because of Penn Square Bank and the financial crisis surrounding that. Oil was only a part of the equation.

ctchandler
10-30-2015, 06:10 PM
I agree with this.

I have been told that the 1980s was as severe as it was because of Penn Square Bank and the financial crisis surrounding that. Oil was only a part of the equation.

Bchris,
I stand to be corrected, but the financial crisis caused by Penn Square Bank, (and all of the idiot banks around the country) was based on oil and the crazy loaning (then selling the paper/loans to the idiot banks) of funds for oil leases. I believe that oil was 100% of the equation. You should read the Penn Square Bank book about what happened, it will open your eyes a lot. I need to look for my copy of the book, it's around here somewhere.
C. T.

Teo9969
10-31-2015, 10:33 AM
Yes, from what I remember reading, the banks collapsed because they were WAY over leveraged in oil and gas.

No doubt the local banks have much better balance sheets these days, but they are surely still heavily involved with energy in this state, and energy lagging for much longer will hurt them as well. But no, OKC's economy is not going to collapse. Even so, it's been growing at an impressive rate, and that growth is indeed threatened by all this.

ou48A
11-02-2015, 09:13 AM
Almost all new exploration and production only exist due to borrowed money and when that is gone so will most new exploration and production activity’s…. As a result further large scale employment reductions in the industry are very, very likely.

The lending institutions were way over leveraged in the 1980’s… but to prevent the same scenario the lending institutions either have, or will put a halt to most new further exploration and production lending…. Which means further new pain for the local economy….
The lending institution will also make staff reductions along with many others.

History | OERB (http://www.oerb.com/industry/history)
“According to a 2014 study, the oil and natural gas industry in Oklahoma produced approximately $65 billion in gross state product. That’s one of every three dollars. The industry also supports 465,616 full and part-time jobs – one of every five jobs in the state.”

If I recall correctly, in 1981 the figure was one out of 4 dollars of gross state product originates its self from the oil and natural gas industry. If what I remember is correct, in spite of large growth of other industry and business, by percentage the state is actually more exposed to the oil and natural gas industry than before the 1980’s bust.

Teo9969
11-02-2015, 09:44 AM
Almost all new exploration and production only exist due to borrowed money and when that is gone so will most new exploration and production activity’s…. As a result further large scale employment reductions in the industry are very, very likely.

The lending institutions were way over leveraged in the 1980’s… but to prevent the same scenario the lending institutions either have, or will put a halt to most new further exploration and production lending…. Which means further new pain for the local economy….
The lending institution will also make staff reductions along with many others.

History | OERB (http://www.oerb.com/industry/history)
“According to a 2014 study, the oil and natural gas industry in Oklahoma produced approximately $65 billion in gross state product. That’s one of every three dollars. The industry also supports 465,616 full and part-time jobs – one of every five jobs in the state.”

If I recall correctly, in 1981 the figure was one out of 4 dollars of gross state product originates its self from the oil and natural gas industry. If what I remember is correct, in spite of large growth of other industry and business, by percentage the state is actually more exposed to the oil and natural gas industry than before the 1980’s bust.

No doubt that's a big impact, but 1. OK =/= OKC. 2. Not every single job lost is going to be a 100% retreat in production and pay. Some of these people will open up new businesses in new fields, go to work in other local markets, etc. etc.

As long as oil is down it ultimately hurts OKC because oil is OKC's largest export. But thankfully several of our local banks are actively involved in other markets as well. Midfirst is in Denver and Phoenix, AF (via First Fidelity) is also in Arizona. BOK being active in 8 different states should also help a bit.

Tinker has also done very well and really managed well amongst major Federal concerns, and the whole Aviation industry is growing well in the state.

OKC needs to continue to boost its tourism, and hope that the Thunder start winning some championships (The economic impact of 2 days of NBA Finals is close to $100M isn't it? Not a ton of money, but it gets more people aware of the city overall).

It would be nice to see over the next 5 to 10 years what Oklahoma is going to do to address the evolving nature of energy. 20 years from now, It's reasonable to believe that as a country will be less dependent on fossil fuels, and if OK doesn't plan with how to deal with that, we'll have little to no export economy. At least Texas has Austin.

gopokes88
11-02-2015, 11:45 AM
Bchris,
I stand to be corrected, but the financial crisis caused by Penn Square Bank, (and all of the idiot banks around the country) was based on oil and the crazy loaning (then selling the paper/loans to the idiot banks) of funds for oil leases. I believe that oil was 100% of the equation. You should read the Penn Square Bank book about what happened, it will open your eyes a lot. I need to look for my copy of the book, it's around here somewhere.
C. T.

The bank crashing made the oil recession even worse. Just a regular oil crash hurts, an oil crash that takes the banks with it makes it brutal.

Bank recessions historically, in any economy, are often the most devastating and difficult to come back from.

gopokes88
11-02-2015, 11:57 AM
No doubt that's a big impact, but 1. OK =/= OKC. 2. Not every single job lost is going to be a 100% retreat in production and pay. Some of these people will open up new businesses in new fields, go to work in other local markets, etc. etc.

As long as oil is down it ultimately hurts OKC because oil is OKC's largest export. But thankfully several of our local banks are actively involved in other markets as well. Midfirst is in Denver and Phoenix, AF (via First Fidelity) is also in Arizona. BOK being active in 8 different states should also help a bit.

Tinker has also done very well and really managed well amongst major Federal concerns, and the whole Aviation industry is growing well in the state.

OKC needs to continue to boost its tourism, and hope that the Thunder start winning some championships (The economic impact of 2 days of NBA Finals is close to $100M isn't it? Not a ton of money, but it gets more people aware of the city overall).

It would be nice to see over the next 5 to 10 years what Oklahoma is going to do to address the evolving nature of energy. 20 years from now, It's reasonable to believe that as a country will be less dependent on fossil fuels, and if OK doesn't plan with how to deal with that, we'll have little to no export economy. At least Texas has Austin.

Actually crude demand will continue to grow, the emerging economies will use a lot of oil going forward. The US could be a net exporter of crude very soon in the future. That will be very good for the economy.

Plutonic Panda
11-02-2015, 12:55 PM
At least Texas has Austin.I believe there is some strong alternative energy investment going on in San Antonio as well.

gopokes88
11-02-2015, 01:04 PM
At least Texas has Austin.

Meh, Austin is 86 billion in a state with a 1.648 trillion dollar economy. That's a solid 5%. Suggesting that Texas could fall back on Austin when crude starts to decline is a touch ridiculous. By comparison Lawton in OK is 3%, double Lawton and that's how important Austin is to Texas.

Texas' economy is very very large.

ou48A
11-02-2015, 06:03 PM
Most people in Oklahoma have little to no comprehension of the sheer scale of the Texas oil & NG business and how it dwarfs what we have in Oklahoma.

But even more lacking in Oklahoma is the low understanding of how Texas has very intelligently (compared to Oklahoma) parlayed their oil & NG wealth into to other successful ventures.

Texas has continually built great universities. They have the right mix of taxes, incentives and new infrastructure to aid growth and improve standards of living for nearly all who hold an employable college degree.

Oil & NG will recover IMO in the next 2 or 3 years. If we only had the will Oklahoma could do much the same over time but on a smaller scale.

It’s all about what we decide our priorities are?

bchris02
11-02-2015, 08:44 PM
It’s all about what we decide our priorities are?

I agree. I wish the GOP in this state would start working towards bringing the state forward and building a better state for all Oklahomans rather than pandering to special interest groups.

onthestrip
11-03-2015, 08:45 AM
Most people in Oklahoma have little to no comprehension of the sheer scale of the Texas oil & NG business and how it dwarfs what we have in Oklahoma.

But even more lacking in Oklahoma is the low understanding of how Texas has very intelligently (compared to Oklahoma) parlayed their oil & NG wealth into to other successful ventures.

Texas has continually built great universities. They have the right mix of taxes, incentives and new infrastructure to aid growth and improve standards of living for nearly all who hold an employable college degree.

Oil & NG will recover IMO in the next 2 or 3 years. If we only had the will Oklahoma could do much the same over time but on a smaller scale.

It’s all about what we decide our priorities are?

All true. Texas produces about 10x the amount of O&G as Oklahoma does, and they tax it 3.5x higher than we do. What do you get when you do that? A lot of money to make your state better in edu, quality of life, etc. But in Oklahoma, Devon, Continental, Chesapeake have better lobbyists than education and health advocates. So our lawmakers were cool with giving away any potential for decent gross production taxes. And now we have a billion dollar shortfall.

And back to that Oklahoman editorial, such BS. To claim that all these tax cuts and tax credit giveaways didnt matter is flat out lying. And OKC's sales tax numbers have only in the last couple months or so have been lower than expected. The state's finances have been bad for years, even with good oil prices and production. Kansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, all of these states are being governed by conservative ideologue dunces who dont have a clue about decent fiscal policy.

ou48A
11-03-2015, 09:36 AM
All true. Texas produces about 10x the amount of O&G as Oklahoma does, and they tax it 3.5x higher than we do. What do you get when you do that? A lot of money to make your state better in edu, quality of life, etc. But in Oklahoma, Devon, Continental, Chesapeake have better lobbyists than education and health advocates. So our lawmakers were cool with giving away any potential for decent gross production taxes. And now we have a billion dollar shortfall.

And back to that Oklahoman editorial, such BS. To claim that all these tax cuts and tax credit giveaways didnt matter is flat out lying. And OKC's sales tax numbers have only in the last couple months or so have been lower than expected. The state's finances have been bad for years, even with good oil prices and production. Kansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, all of these states are being governed by conservative ideologue dunces who dont have a clue about decent fiscal policy.

The other side governed Oklahoma with virtual complete control for about 6 decades and our prosperity rankings were among the lowest in the nation…. If they were interested in our states education they would have done what Texas did many, many decades ago and established an Oil & NG endowment fund. But their history shows they have given into special interest groups, lobbyist and tolerated such people as Jean Stipe in their party…. Oklahomans have firmly rejected this long running corruption and cronyism…


But it is time to do what is right for the people and that first starts IMHO with getting our educational system on solid ground with good funding and very badly needed reforms that improve efficiencies and the product.


This is a problem that was caused by decades of neglect and it will take decades to make right!

gopokes88
11-03-2015, 10:48 AM
You can't really slam conservatives when democrats ruled for 100 years. And Texas isn't exactly a bastion of liberals, Oklahoma is marginally more conservative than they are.

Texas' economy is just so much more diverse then ours. Dallas might have the most diverse economy in the nation. It does has the most fortune 500HQs of any metro in the country. Look at the list of fortune 500s there. AT&T, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Exxon, and so on.

Texas doesn't have a higher quality of life because they tax oil a little higher. They have a higher quality of life because they have an extremely diverse economy with a lot of high paying jobs. They also have the ability to recruit enormous companies to the area. State Farm, Liberty mutual, Toyota are all bringing 5,000+ jobs to the frisco area.

For as much you can argue we suffer because of our conservatism I could argue Texas' conservatism helps them tremendously. How about the fact they only meet once every two years? Gives them less time to purpose dumb pointless laws, they meet and they have to get down to business right away. That's a conservative principal.

Also the %of Texas' state government to its overall economy is half of Oklahoma's. Dollar for dollar Texas state government is half the size of OK's. 71 billion/1.65 trillion= 4.3%. Oklahoma is 17.5 billion/185 billion or 9.5% of gdp.

The larger the government, the higher up the government the less effective and less it works. OKC's government is more effective then OK's and OK's is more effective then the Feds. Texas' gets this, and their state government cuts down on this bloat.

Texas is just better then OK in a lot of ways. They have a better culture. They are a people of independence, small government, and low regulation, except for when it comes to schools, roads, and police. Oklahoma is like a small government but high personal life regulation government. Which always leads to some stupid social conservative regulation (like banning hoodies) that will do nothing, (which so hypocritical, were the party that's supposed to think, yeah no way government will be able to do that effectively) embarrasses the state, and distracts from the real work of the government.

Oklahoma should meet for 90 days every two years work on the budget and whatever stupid laws they want to try and pass they can try that if they have time leftover.

Jersey Boss
11-03-2015, 11:17 AM
The first sentence of your post is flawed. You infer that Oklahoma Democrats and conservatives are mutually exclusive. If you think that Oklahoma Democrats are liberal, you need to travel and live out of this region.

onthestrip
11-03-2015, 11:35 AM
You can't really slam conservatives when democrats ruled for 100 years. And Texas isn't exactly a bastion of liberals, Oklahoma is marginally more conservative than they are.

Texas' economy is just so much more diverse then ours. Dallas might have the most diverse economy in the nation. It does has the most fortune 500HQs of any metro in the country. Look at the list of fortune 500s there. AT&T, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Exxon, and so on.

Texas doesn't have a higher quality of life because they tax oil a little higher. They have a higher quality of life because they have an extremely diverse economy with a lot of high paying jobs. They also have the ability to recruit enormous companies to the area. State Farm, Liberty mutual, Toyota are all bringing 5,000+ jobs to the frisco area.

For as much you can argue we suffer because of our conservatism I could argue Texas' conservatism helps them tremendously. How about the fact they only meet once every two years? Gives them less time to purpose dumb pointless laws, they meet and they have to get down to business right away. That's a conservative principal.

Also the %of Texas' state government to its overall economy is half of Oklahoma's. Dollar for dollar Texas state government is half the size of OK's. 71 billion/1.65 trillion= 4.3%. Oklahoma is 17.5 billion/185 billion or 9.5% of gdp.

The larger the government, the higher up the government the less effective and less it works. OKC's government is more effective then OK's and OK's is more effective then the Feds. Texas' gets this, and their state government cuts down on this bloat.

Texas is just better then OK in a lot of ways. They have a better culture. They are a people of independence, small government, and low regulation, except for when it comes to schools, roads, and police. Oklahoma is like a small government but high personal life regulation government. Which always leads to some stupid social conservative regulation (like banning hoodies) that will do nothing, (which so hypocritical, were the party that's supposed to think, yeah no way government will be able to do that effectively) embarrasses the state, and distracts from the real work of the government.

Oklahoma should meet for 90 days every two years work on the budget and whatever stupid laws they want to try and pass they can try that if they have time leftover.

I did read all this but wanted to stop after the first sentence. This isnt 1915, or even 1990. This is 2015 and we are governed by republicans, so I am going to criticize them for the terrible condition of our education, health and state budget. The fact that we have such a huge % of our population that is medically uninsured or the fact that our class room sizes are huge due to a teacher shortage isnt because of the last 100 years. Its from the last 5.

And Texas has better culture than us? What does that even mean? Texas has an gigantic advantage over us in O&G, agriculture, tourism and they benefit from ports and an abundance of cheap labor. They have a built in advantage. We cant cut our taxes enough to compete with that. What we can do is focus on our state and do whats best and invest in education, health, and infrastructure. Hard to do when you keep mindlessly cutting taxes and services, even when no evidence appears that it does any good.

I will agree with you about changing up the leg process to only propose and vote on laws every two years while putting more focus on the budget every year. And they are exploring that now. There was a hearing on it yesterday and is being rightly pushed by Republican Sen. David Holt.

PhiAlpha
11-03-2015, 12:11 PM
I agree. I wish the GOP in this state would start working towards bringing the state forward and building a better state for all Oklahomans rather than pandering to special interest groups.

You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?

Jersey Boss
11-03-2015, 12:22 PM
You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?

Relevance to Oklahoma politics post 2010? You do realize Fred Harris has not been in the Oklahoma Democratic party for a few decades, .... right?