First and foremost, let me state I'm an alumni of the University of Oklahoma, a donor and football season ticket holder for 20 plus years. I am however getting very tired of the University's dishonest communications.

OU often indicates their tuition is one of the lowest and most affordable in the Big 12, below the regional average, etc. Like most claims by the university, this is technically true. The tuition at OU is $137.60 per credit hour ($2,064 flat rate), which sounds like a bargain and fits well with their claims. However, this does not include: Student Facility Fee, Student Activity Fee, Library Excellence Fee, College Technology Services Fee, Academic Facility & Life Service Fee, Security Services Fee, Transit Fee, Special Event Fee, Student Assessment Fee, and Connectivity Fee at $110.45 per hour ($1,656.75 flat rate) There are also mandatory semester fees: Health Fee $74.00; Cultural & Recreational Services Fee $12.50; Academic Records Fee $15.00 and the Academic Advising Fee $25.00. Then there's my favorite, the Academic Excellence Fee of $60.00 per hour. But wait, there's more in the form of individual college specific fees. For engineering: Program Fee $18.00 per hour and a Technology Fee of $28.50 per hour. Tuition & Fees (http://www.ou.edu/bursar/tuition_fees.html)

When you add all of this up, you get a total bill from the bursar (based upon 16 hours) of $5,551.25, with $2,064.00 earmarked for tuition. Comparing tuition to other universities, OU really is a bargain! Their published flat rate tuition is only $2,064 per semester for in-state students ... plus fees. When flat-rate was initially announced, David Boren said other schools, like Texas, also use the same methodology. Really? The University of Texas' flat-rate tuition for one semester of in-state engineering is $5,107, or about 10% LESS than OU. Tuition Costs : Tuition Dollars & Sense (http://www.utexas.edu/tuition/costs.html)

What about fees? Q: What is not covered by my Longhorn Fixed Tuition Rate? A: University fees, housing expenses, optional fees, and fees related to participating in academic programs such as UT in DC, Study Abroad, other similar one-semester programs, or field trips are not covered by nor included in the Longhorn Fixed Tuition agreement. Tuition Costs : Tuition Dollars & Sense (http://www.utexas.edu/tuition/longhorn_fixed_tuition.html) In other words, there are no additional mandatory fees.

Put another way, tuition plus fees at the University of Texas is about 10% less to a resident of Texas than tuition and fees at the University of Oklahoma for an Oklahoma resident. In addition, Texas has one of the top ranked engineering schools in the nation, top 10, Oklahoma, top 100.

One additional FYI, about OU's dishonest marketing: Once again, comparing football ticket costs, OU is one of the more affordable. Check your season ticket renewal, there is an additional $60.00 per seat Academic Excellence Fee (sound familiar) added to each season ticket. This is outside of the calculation of comparability.

*** Warning: Editorial Comment ***

How long will we as citizens of this state continue to support policies that reduce revenues? The reduction in revenues contributes to the higher cost of educating our youth through reduced appropriations. Furthermore, why do continue to believe OU is a bargain when compared to other states when this is clearly not accurate? What has resulted from our following the lead of those determined to reduce state revenue and believing our higher education leaders? We as Oklahoman's are paying a higher price for an inferior product. (Put aside the Sooner & Cowboy blindness, the University of Texas is a much higher ranked educational institution than Oklahoma or Oklahoma State)

Don't worry, in about 3 or 4 more years the education bubble is going to burst and you can go to college for pennies on the dollar compared to now.

Don't worry, in about 3 or 4 more years the education bubble is going to burst and you can go to college for pennies on the dollar compared to now.

Why will it do that?

Don't worry, in about 3 or 4 more years the education bubble is going to burst and you can go to college for pennies on the dollar compared to now.

It does seem like this whole federal student loan thing is about to implode. There is no way students can pay these loans off without decades of repayments - if ever. I want to say the last reported number was $864 billion in federal student loan debt. So pretty much for less than the cost of the Iraq War, we could have provided free college education to 37 million people. I guess it comes down to priorities and what people feel is more important.

Oklahoma provides a very low level of funding for higher education and is looking to cut it even further.

Therefore, tuition and fees have to pay for a much higher percentage of total university costs than elsewhere.

Boren is trying to improve the quality of education and the billion + endowment helps defray lots of extra salaries and scholarships.

Also, enrollment is at an all-time high.


We need at least one great university in the state, and that costs money.

There are plenty of cheaper options in state if cost is the primary concern.

Why will it do that?

Because the cost now exceeds the earning potential for the vast majority of majors.

There needs to be better education to high school students about debt and career/degree choice.

The amount of students going from high school to college and piling up insane amounts of student loan debt is staggering. I don't have enough toes and fingers to count how many people I know who went to OSU/OU or any private colleges in the state for degrees that have an extremely narrow job field available (especially locally).

A lot of people poke fun about UCO and other "discount" colleges in the state - but I assure you the amount of money you save for the same peice of paper is almost always worth it in hindsight. Especially to the student who now has an arts degree with debt to their eyeballs. Yes I know UCO doesn't have some of the same majors as the other two universities, but the kids going to take basics and paying tens of thousands of dollars are wasting their time. You are much better off going to UCO for around $2k a semester - pretty much all credits will transfer bewteen the major universities.

Oklahoma provides a very low level of funding for higher education and is looking to cut it even further.

Therefore, tuition and fees have to pay for a much higher percentage of total university costs than elsewhere.

Boren is trying to improve the quality of education and the billion + endowment helps defray lots of extra salaries and scholarships.

Also, enrollment is at an all-time high.


We need at least one great university in the state, and that costs money.

There are plenty of cheaper options in state if cost is the primary concern.

The State of Oklahoma contributes about fifteen (15) percent toward University of Oklahoma operating expenses.

UCO or any of the many other colleges in state offer excellent alternatives to those who can't afford OU.

But OU shouldn't discount and dilute their education just to compete on price.

Tuition and admission standards continue to go up, but so does the enrollment and the value of the degree.


Boren knows what he's doing.

One thing colleges are going to have to do is reduce the number of credits it takes to earn a degree - and dare I say that the Associates Degree needs to make a huge comeback. I have a degree in Geography from OU and it should be a 3 year program.

Tuition and admission standards continue to go up, but so does the enrollment and the value of the degree.


Enrollment goes up because there little to no entry level jobs for a high school senior and student loan debt is sooooo easy to acquire, but guess what, there aren't any entry level positions for college grads either. So now they are unemployed and in debt. Furthermore, the cost of obtaining a degree in many fields far exceeds the earning potential of those fields. I could never afford my degree today because being a professional geographer doesn't pay enough to retire the debt. It barely paid enough 20 years ago and college costs way more now than it did then - and wages have been flat for a long time.

There needs to be better education to high school students about debt and career/degree choice.

One of my good friends teaches math classes (Algebra, Geometry, College Algebra, Pre-Calc, etc) at Yukon High School. Next year, he is going to teach a year long class about personal finances. This will be the first class at this school taught like this so the majority of the first semester is going to be figuring out what they want to learn. This is a high level elective, so he won't have many people uninterested in the class. I work in banking and I told him teaching the time value of money, investments, basic banking things like how a bank works, loans, deposit accounts, etc, not to mention savings for children's college, retirement, etc. I told him I was not sure if that would take a year, but good luck with it. If it goes over well, other schools are already looking at it for their students.

There needs to be better education to high school students about debt and career/degree choice.

The amount of students going from high school to college and piling up insane amounts of student loan debt is staggering. I don't have enough toes and fingers to count how many people I know who went to OSU/OU or any private colleges in the state for degrees that have an extremely narrow job field available (especially locally).

A lot of people poke fun about UCO and other "discount" colleges in the state - but I assure you the amount of money you save for the same peice of paper is almost always worth it in hindsight. Especially to the student who now has an arts degree with debt to their eyeballs. Yes I know UCO doesn't have some of the same majors as the other two universities, but the kids going to take basics and paying tens of thousands of dollars are wasting their time. You are much better off going to UCO for around $2k a semester - pretty much all credits will transfer bewteen the major universities.

There's SO MUCH wisdom in this post!! :)

Still another option I wish I had undertaken and are in the midst of undertaking for my kids is to go two years to a school like OCCC, then transfer to a "bigger" state school, likely OU. Total fees and tuition for in-state students at O-trip? Right at $100 per hour, $75 tutition/$25 fees (roughly). If I'd had my head screwed on straight thirty years ago, I'd have done OCCC that way in a heartbeat and saved a *ton* of money not only in tuition, but in gas/travel expense as well. I commuted (out of financial necessity) to OU and was there two years before I realized the OCCC option was there. At least I can teach my kids what to do :)

The key is remembering that when they graduate from that OU or OSU or UCO or whatever conventional "four year" school might be, no one will know or care that half your hours transferred in from a different venue. My kiddo scooped up about 12 hours in college credit on AP tests, and won a full-tuition two-year ride to OCCC, so his first two years to his degree are already all-but paid for. As a percentage of all expenses, his OCCC scholarship offer was miles better than what OU or anyone else offered.

My objective is that neither of my kids will have *one penny* of student debt by the time they each finish their respective degrees.

Because the cost now exceeds the earning potential for the vast majority of majors.

Exactly. I attended OCU where I knew girls who would come in, go to the dance school, finance everything and end up with $100,000 in debt at the end of four years. Then, they only have six months before they need to start paying on their student loans. If you were to finance $100,000 and have to pay it out over ten years, it would be just over $1,000/month. Well, most of these girls end up moving to LA, Vegas or NYC (where the cost of living is so much higher) because that is where the jobs in that industry are. I know several medical students who had 20 year student loans at 6%. That's a house... A big house. Now, they will obviously be making a lot more money than dancers, but the nation-wide healthcare situation makes their career choice questionable.

My senior year of high school we had to take a class on Independent Living. We learned how to read telephone bills, electric bills, apartment leases, understand car loans, benefits of renters insurance, cook, clean (what household chemicals NOT to mix), and a whole host of other items - including having to carry around a sack of flour like a baby for 2 weeks. Of course, that was back before high school seniors had real babies.

I can tell you in Los Angeles Public Schools all high school students are required to take a Life Skills class that teaches them budgeting and money matters, among other things.

There needs to be better education to high school students about debt and career/degree choice.

Sorry for the extra post, but I had to yell AMEN to this in particular. I've got a friend I've known since elementary school, very very bright guy, and he went into a degree field studying art. And he went all the way with it - got a PhD. Only problem? There aren't any jobs for it. Or the jobs that might be able to take advantage of it are so scarce that they're nearly impossible to find - struggling to put together piecemeal teaching jobs just to keep the rent paid. He said had he any idea it would have been so tough making a living at it, he'd have picked another field.

I think just a simple education in career paths vs job opportunity vs earnings potential would be a great thing. I'm not telling people to just go for the money, not at all - but to give them at least some information about what they're choosing. Forewarned is forearmed, as they (someone?) said.

BTW, OU is very generous with their various scholarship and grant programs.

Good students can usually get a pretty good reduction in tuition. Seems like all the kids of my friends are getting assistance of some sort.


When I went to OU in the early 80's I had a scholarship that covered virtually all my tuition and books, and that was before they added many more programs.

BTW, OU is very generous with their various scholarship and grant programs.

Good students can usually get a pretty good reduction in tuition. Seems like all the kids of my friends are getting assistance of some sort.

That was kinda the word I had about OU, and that was also why I was *very* surprised my son did not get more of an offer than he did. He had a 26 ACT,. top 10% of his grad. glass, graduated with honors, but he was offered only a $550/semester tuition credit. Don't get me wrong - that's a $4,400 scholly over four years, but in terms of the grand cost of things....well, not so much. He applied to the general scholarship pool, the department he was interested in, but never heard anything. Very puzzling. Figured we may have filled out an application incorrectly or something bizarre like that, but surely he wouldn't have been accepted to OU had that been the case. We'll never know, I s'pose. Mind you, wasn't expecting a full ride - know those go to the guys who push the near-perfects on the ACT's - but somewhere farther up the spectrum wouldn't have been out of line, I think. No matter.

We have since learned that OU does offer scholarships particularly targeted at incoming community college transfers - in some cases, full rides for well-qualified students. My son has to keep up his grades to keep his scholarship at O-trip, so I think (hope) he may be in line for a chance at least some of that when the time comes in a couple of years :)

^

Part of this is due to vastly increased standards, where there are tons of kids coming in with more than 26 on their ACT.

If you come in with a 30+, they will basically give you a free ride.


BTW, this is exactly the way private schools operate. I went to Pepperdine for grad school and people ask how I afforded the $40K annual tuition (total budget for one year is now $62K!). But I ended up with scholarships and grants and a teaching assistant job, and I paid very little in tuition.

At the same time, there were a bunch of people paying full boat who either didn't have the test scores or never bothered to negotiate.

^

Part of this is due to vastly increased standards, where there are tons of kids coming in with more than 26 on their ACT.

No question.




If you come in with a 30+, they will basically give you a free ride.


When I was in school down at OU, anything in the 32-33 ish range got you a great shot at a full ride - they called it the "R. Boyd Gunning" scholarship. 30-31 was usually good for a two-year or four-year partial tuition waiver, and a book scholarship. High twenties would get you a one-year tuition waiver and $500 in books (that's what I got). Minority applications with a mid- to high teens were in line for partial four-year rides, and much above 18-20 would get the full-ride consideration.

That difference is why I took my ACT twice (which was pretty unusual back in my day) because I had a 29 the first time around, and knew one point might get me four years of money. Retook it, went up in EVERY category (actually got a 34 on math, which shocked me), but somehow managed to crater the social sciences (I think, forgot the name of that section) down to a 20 and brought my composite down to a 28. Bye-bye four-year ride. Even called ACT personally and asked them to regrade my test because I had scored a 28 on that section the first time. They did, no difference (the guy told me he hand-graded it personally because of what was at stake). That drop cost me a composite of about 32. The only thing I've surmised is that I opted to skip a question, but didn't skip that question on the answer blank, shifting all the subsequent answers up one. Only thing that makes sense. Thirty years ago, I realize, but I'm not bitter :) LOL



BTW, this is exactly the way private schools operate. I went to Pepperdine for grad school and people ask how I afforded the $40K annual tuition (total budget for one year is now $62K!). But I ended up with scholarships and grants and a teaching assistant job, and I paid very little in tuition.

At the same time, there were a bunch of people paying full boat who either didn't have the test scores or never bothered to negotiate.

Since OU is a state school, I don't think they have the option (or much, at least) to negotiate their fees or tuition. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I agree completely that if you have more students chasing fewer dollars (and there's not much doubt the quality of student at OU is better now than it was back in my day - especially since I'm not there anymore LOL - , the results explain themselves as for as schollies go.

There's SO MUCH wisdom in this post!! :)

Still another option I wish I had undertaken and are in the midst of undertaking for my kids is to go two years to a school like OCCC, then transfer to a "bigger" state school, likely OU. Total fees and tuition for in-state students at O-trip? Right at $100 per hour, $75 tutition/$25 fees (roughly). If I'd had my head screwed on straight thirty years ago, I'd have done OCCC that way in a heartbeat and saved a *ton* of money not only in tuition, but in gas/travel expense as well. I commuted (out of financial necessity) to OU and was there two years before I realized the OCCC option was there. At least I can teach my kids what to do :)

The key is remembering that when they graduate from that OU or OSU or UCO or whatever conventional "four year" school might be, no one will know or care that half your hours transferred in from a different venue. My kiddo scooped up about 12 hours in college credit on AP tests, and won a full-tuition two-year ride to OCCC, so his first two years to his degree are already all-but paid for. As a percentage of all expenses, his OCCC scholarship offer was miles better than what OU or anyone else offered.

My objective is that neither of my kids will have *one penny* of student debt by the time they each finish their respective degrees.

I wasn't sure how to word what I was saying, but you did it perfectly.

There is no "efficient reasoning" to go to OU/OSU or a private college for the first two years when you are only taking basic courses that transfer between all univeristies. The only time I can see it making sense is it you are already local to one of those schools and it would be logistically inefficient to try and go to a discount college.

You can view online at all the courses which transfer between universities - all you have to do is take the corresponding courses that will transfer to the college you want your degree to say and suddenly you saved tens of thousands of dollars. The problem is that nobody teaches you this, and certainly the big university charging big bucks isn't going to let you know you can get the same credits down the street for 4 thousand dollars less.

Don't even get me started on textbooks being sold on campus. This whole college thing really looks ugly when you dig into it - sometimes I cannot beleive it is legal.

That was kinda the word I had about OU, and that was also why I was *very* surprised my son did not get more of an offer than he did. He had a 26 ACT,. top 10% of his grad. glass, graduated with honors, but he was offered only a $550/semester tuition credit. Don't get me wrong - that's a $4,400 scholly over four years, but in terms of the grand cost of things....well, not so much. He applied to the general scholarship pool, the department he was interested in, but never heard anything. Very puzzling. Figured we may have filled out an application incorrectly or something bizarre like that, but surely he wouldn't have been accepted to OU had that been the case. We'll never know, I s'pose. Mind you, wasn't expecting a full ride - know those go to the guys who push the near-perfects on the ACT's - but somewhere farther up the spectrum wouldn't have been out of line, I think. No matter.

We have since learned that OU does offer scholarships particularly targeted at incoming community college transfers - in some cases, full rides for well-qualified students. My son has to keep up his grades to keep his scholarship at O-trip, so I think (hope) he may be in line for a chance at least some of that when the time comes in a couple of years :)

If I had to guess, those credentials are probably quite average for the typical OU student. Dont mean to sound rude but those arent numbers that scream tons of scholarship money to me. But if you keep applying for any and all scholarships available, you might be surprised what your son ends up receiving. There are scholarships all over the place, just have to keep your eyes open and keep applying.

If I had to guess, those credentials are probably quite average for the typical OU student. Dont mean to sound rude but those arent numbers that scream tons of scholarship money to me. But if you keep applying for any and all scholarships available, you will might be surprised what your son can get.

Yeah, in re-reading my original post I clearly overstated my point. You are absolutely right. A 26 ACT isn't going to light up the cash register. I was not at all expecting a full ride for him by any means, but maybe just a bit more than $500 a semester. Perhaps I was looking at it through dad-colored glasses :) Was very proud of him - worked his rear-end off as a football player, got hurt, but still managed three consecutive perfect 4.0 semesters with AP courses and concurrent college enrollment that have given him 15 hours of credit. Just a ridiculous work ethic compared to most kids his age IMHO.

Yeah, I'm dad, I'm biased :)

The State of Oklahoma contributes about fifteen (15) percent toward University of Oklahoma operating expenses.

OU President David Boren slams governor's proposed funding cuts for higher education - Tulsa World: Education (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/ou-president-david-boren-slams-governor-s-proposed-funding-cuts/article_710598d8-02fd-5bdd-ad45-80e6c1a6c631.html)

I think when I enrolled at OSU in 1973, I'm wanting to say tuition was $14 or $16/ credit hour for in state students. Can that be right or do I just not remember what it really was. If it was that, what has happened to higher education costs. The costs the OP is describing in post #1 is unbelievable.

If you look at the University of Oklahoma in pretty much any college ranking system, particularly in the university's focused programs, you will see dramatic improvement or solid performance.

US News has OU ranked 101 overall among national universities, tied with Tennessee, Nebraska, and Kansas. UT-Austin is 52. Baylor is 79. Oklahoma State is 142. The Law School is ranked 58, up from 71 in 2009.

Anyone can get an Ivy League education at OU if they choose the right classes with the right professors. There has been a significant amount spent on bringing in truly great thought leaders to Norman.

Most importantly, with the strategic selling of OU to top candidates for college (i.e. National Merit Scholars), the amount of successful people who leave the school is increasing and let me tell you, a rising tide lifts all ships. The University of Oklahoma is becoming a place that is well known for things other than football and that is exactly where it needs to be.

Yeah, in re-reading my original post I clearly overstated my point. You are absolutely right. A 26 ACT isn't going to light up the cash register. I was not at all expecting a full ride for him by any means, but maybe just a bit more than $500 a semester. Perhaps I was looking at it through dad-colored glasses :) Was very proud of him - worked his rear-end off as a football player, got hurt, but still managed three consecutive perfect 4.0 semesters with AP courses and concurrent college enrollment that have given him 15 hours of credit. Just a ridiculous work ethic compared to most kids his age IMHO.

Yeah, I'm dad, I'm biased :)

Unfortunately, it's really hard for universities to quantify work ethic. That is such a valuable trait that is desperately needed in the work force.

I think when I enrolled at OSU in 1973, I'm wanting to say tuition was $14 or $16/ credit hour for in state students. Can that be right or do I just not remember what it really was. If it was that, what has happened to higher education costs. The costs the OP is describing in post #1 is unbelievable.

What happened? Nearly anyone can get something like a guaranteed $65,000 in federal student loans plus an additional $20,000 in Pell Grants. Schools are obviously going to increase their tuition when they can get up to $85,000 in cash right away, even though the student is stuck with the loan debt.

If you come in with a 30+, they will basically give you a free ride.
Not true. The regents scholarship requires a 33 and a 3.25 GPA EVERY semester. Now you know why there are so few engineers and scientists in Oklahoma. Average GPA in these legitimate degree programs is around 2.8, a fact well known on campus. In other words if you don't perform well above average every single semester, you lose the scholarship.

BTW, OU is very generous with their various scholarship and grant programs.

This is a value judgement. Would rather have stats.

I think when I enrolled at OSU in 1973, I'm wanting to say tuition was $14 or $16/ credit hour for in state students. Can that be right or do I just not remember what it really was. If it was that, what has happened to higher education costs. The costs the OP is describing in post #1 is unbelievable.

That sounds about right. When I went to Jr. College in California from '87 to '90 it was $6/hr up to 6 hours. Everything after that was free. It cost me $72 per year plus books. Even when I went to OU it was under $100/hr.

I thought there was already a patent, leading to a Master's Degree, given to Dishonest Marketing by Harvard and Yale.
(not to mention The Online School to Rule Wall Street College of Phoenix University and I.T. Improvements)
No wonder common folk, like in Oklahoma, are up in metaphorical arms and whatnots. =)

Not true. The regents scholarship requires a 33 and a 3.25 GPA EVERY semester. Now you know why there are so few engineers and scientists in Oklahoma. Average GPA in these legitimate degree programs is around 2.8, a fact well known on campus. In other words if you don't perform well above average every single semester, you lose the scholarship.

The notion of maintaining grades was true thirty years ago for the R. Boyd Gunning and similar long-term scholarships I mentioned earlier from the University Scholars program at OU. I kinda thought that was implied.

I was pleased to actually work for the dean who started the University Scholars/National Merit enrollment push at OU back in the mid 80's - a super nice guy who worked his tail off back then to start the ball rolling for NMSQT monies. At the time, it was back when OU was considered more of a party school and the idea you'd get really high-end students was looked at with, at best, a jaundiced eye. Now its one of the most successful such programs in the country.

So would you feel better if they just upped the tuition level and removed so many line items for fees? OSU sort of flip-flops OUs method and has higher tuition and lower fees.

I'd prefer to have it one large tuition bill and be done. In the method today, it directly affects how they pay graduate teaching assistants. TAs get a tuition waver if they teach so many hours depending on their department. But they still pay for books/fees. If you up tuition and toss fees (at least the majority of them), you can just adjust the payment so TAs get a percentage (that equates to that amount).

It can get complicated because fees will never go away. Some programs require extra fees to pay for things. It could be argued that if you make everyone pay for it then the cost per-student would be lower. But that's the method they used to use and it changed to this way because of funding gaps. OU sucks at back-office work...especially payroll...OMG! They really need to re-organize some of that to a business-style method to get rid of some the layers of stupidity. The counter to that is as they do that, they start looking at things as a money thing rather than quality of education thing. That became apparent in how they paid their summer TAs. They started paying for the number of students in the class rather than the hours taught. Guess what happened? The crappy teachers classes filled up and the better teachers that actually try got screwed. The university sacrificed quality to save a buck. What's worse is they used to do this, this exact patterned happened, and they went back to the hour model and fired some instructors. But here we go again....

One of my good friends teaches math classes (Algebra, Geometry, College Algebra, Pre-Calc, etc) at Yukon High School. Next year, he is going to teach a year long class about personal finances. This will be the first class at this school taught like this so the majority of the first semester is going to be figuring out what they want to learn. This is a high level elective, so he won't have many people uninterested in the class. I work in banking and I told him teaching the time value of money, investments, basic banking things like how a bank works, loans, deposit accounts, etc, not to mention savings for children's college, retirement, etc. I told him I was not sure if that would take a year, but good luck with it. If it goes over well, other schools are already looking at it for their students.

There was a semester elective at Mustang that was a finance class. I'm surprised more schools don't offer this. Mustang also offered an Account class that was a semester. I know several people that would take them back to back to get a better understanding on the subjects and see if they wanted to pursue either as a degree.

I've got a friend I've known since elementary school, very very bright guy, and he went into a degree field studying art. And he went all the way with it - got a PhD. Only problem? There aren't any jobs for it. Or the jobs that might be able to take advantage of it are so scarce that they're nearly impossible to find - struggling to put together piecemeal teaching jobs just to keep the rent paid. He said had he any idea it would have been so tough making a living at it, he'd have picked another field.

I've a great friend who says her Masters of Fine Arts only makes employers even less inclined to consider her.
She thinks she can be forgiven for her Bachelors of Fine Arts, though.

Another problem I see quite frequently is that the business majors seem to have no problem finding a job, but keeping the job after 5 years seems to be hard as hell for them. It has become almost like the teaching profession in that a new giant batch is released into the world every 6 months so employers work them to burnout and then just replacement them with someone from the next batch. The Big 4 Accounting firms are notorious for this.

I've a great friend who says her Masters of Fine Arts only makes employers even less inclined to consider her.
She thinks she can be forgiven for her Bachelors of Fine Arts, though.

That's sad. Today, higher education is all about jobs. That wasn't the intent of universities, the intent was to educate. There is very little of the broad liberal arts education going on in most schools today. It's just a fast-track to a better job with bigger paycheck, and that only if you're lucky.

That's sad. Today, higher education is all about jobs. That wasn't the intent of universities, the intent was to educate. There is very little of the broad liberal arts education going on in most schools today. It's just a fast-track to a better job with bigger paycheck, and that only if you're lucky.

Just one of many misguided ways America worships the almighty $$$ almost to the exclusion of everything else...

I got my degree at CSU back in 1989, was in accounting 'cos I had taken some accounting classes in high school and was good at them and got a scholarship if I went into accounting, so took 2 semesters of accounting. Bored me silly, got into computer science, which was more interesting, so at least I didn't go down the "have to aim for a job when I get out, therefore everything I do must be in pursuit of that" path, had lots of jobs over the years, but need to find something new, hate to go back to school for it, but might have to. Probably for something like real estate inspection, though, no desire to get another degree, wouldn't help me much at this point in my life.

Oh, and I think the student loan debt is now over $1 trillion, not just in the hundred-billions.

State-by-state statistics regarding student loan debt.

Project on Student Debt: State by State Data (http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php)

UCO or any of the many other colleges in state offer excellent alternatives to those who can't afford OU.

But OU shouldn't discount and dilute their education just to compete on price.

Tuition and admission standards continue to go up, but so does the enrollment and the value of the degree.


Boren knows what he's doing.

I agree with this statement. I think the primary problem with public schools and higher education in the State of Oklahoma is the education budget cuts. The root of the problem is in the Governor's office and the state legislature.

I'm not a huge fan of these rankings and their methodologies, but OU is ranked a top 50 public university in the newest US News & World Report: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public/page+2 I believe it's the first time they've ranked that high.

I'm not a huge fan of these rankings and their methodologies, but OU is ranked a top 50 public university in the newest US News & World Report: Top Public Schools | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public/page+2) I believe it's the first time they've ranked that high.

And only three of those 50 top public schools were cheaper and only by about $1K per year.

Most -- and we're talking public, not private -- were way more expensive.


To look at it another way, OU is ranked #101 among all national universities (public and private) and only three schools at that rating or higher were cheaper, and not by much.

And only three of those 50 top public schools were cheaper and only by about $1K per year.

Most -- and we're talking public, not private -- were way more expensive.


To look at it another way, OU is ranked #101 among all national universities (public and private) and only three schools at that rating or higher were cheaper, and not by much.

Pete,

With all due respect, I believe my initial contention has been lost as the discussion has focused on the high cost of education and overall debt of students.

I still contend OU is misleading the public with their "tuition" rate. The tuition you cite from the US News Report is $7,341. University of Oklahoma | Best College | US News (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-oklahoma-3184)

This includes what OU describes as their tuition and mandatory fees. The cost cited does not include the semester fees, college specific fees and OU favorite Academic Excellence fees. When included, the amount increases to over $11,100 per year. This is an increase of more than 50% from the amount OU markets their tuition and is depicted on US News. (See original post for detail and links to confirm)

Conversely, most other schools market their tuition rate more closely to the actual amount, e.g. Texas has a 1 page total.

I'm not arguing about the value of an OU degree, my point is they do not accurately reflect the true cost when marketing their tuition rate. When you indicate there are only a few less than OU, its because the true cost is not being used. Once again, Texas is less and a better university as are many others on the list when the actual cost is considered.

^

All schools list total budgets for students that also include things like housing, books, meals, etc.

Those are the numbers people use to compare and budget for and of course, all associated fees are factored in.

I'm sure if you compared OU to other public schools on this basis, it would still be among the very cheapest.

http://www.ou.edu/admissions/tuition_aid/cost_estimate.html


I get rising prices are frustrating but if anything, I'd like to see OU raise them even higher so they can continue to improve the quality of education and thus make a degree more valuable.

As has been stated, if money is the sole concern there are plenty of in-state options which represent about the cheapest college education you can buy, anywhere.

State-by-state statistics regarding student loan debt.

Project on Student Debt: State by State Data (http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php)

Holy cow - only a few states were below 50% of their college grads having student loan debt.

There was a semester elective at Mustang that was a finance class. I'm surprised more schools don't offer this. Mustang also offered an Account class that was a semester. I know several people that would take them back to back to get a better understanding on the subjects and see if they wanted to pursue either as a degree.

All schools offer this. A semester of Financial Literacy is required for graduation in Oklahoma.

BTW, OU is very generous with their various scholarship and grant programs.

Good students can usually get a pretty good reduction in tuition. Seems like all the kids of my friends are getting assistance of some sort.


When I went to OU in the early 80's I had a scholarship that covered virtually all my tuition and books, and that was before they added many more programs.

OU scholarships are a joke. My daughter is starting college in the fall and going to a very elite small school back east that admits less than 15% of applicants. Her actual cost of school is going to be about $10k per year which isn’t too bad. The stated cost of tuition and housing at her school is $63k per year. They gave her $52k per year in scholarship money.

My daughter graduated in the top 5% of her class, took 11 AP classes and scored above a 2200 on the SAT (which is equivalent to a 33 or 34 on the ACT) and missed National Merit by one single point on her PSAT. While OU did offer her a scholarship but it was tiny compared to every other school she applied to. They offered her $2,500 per year I think it was. Apparently if you aren’t a National Merit Scholar OU isn’t really interested in you They really don’t care about the quality of the students, they only important factor is that they can brag about how many National Merit students they admit.

She also got a scholarship offer from Kansas of about $12k per year. The University of Tulsa offered her scholarships of about $25k per year and a couple of other small schools she got into offered her around $30k per year. OU isn’t even really trying to get good students. It’s a sham.

Sounds like a lot of bitterness, not objectivity. I know plenty of families whose kids got good scholarships. Sounds like there may be more to the story.

Apparently if you aren’t a National Merit Scholar OU isn’t really interested in you They really don’t care about the quality of the students, they only important factor is that they can brag about how many National Merit students they admit.

OU isn’t even really trying to get good students. It’s a sham.

Yes, it's all a grand scheme to avoid taking good students and specifically your daughter. :rolleyes:


They simply have their own criteria for awarding scholarships, as do all schools. If they chose to place a higher value on National Merit Scholars, that's their prerogative and a strategy that has a clear value, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

Yes, it's all a grand scheme to avoid taking good students and specifically your daughter. :rolleyes:


They simply have their own criteria for awarding scholarships, as do all schools. If they chose to place a higher value on National Merit Scholars, that's their prerogative and a strategy that has a clear value, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.


You misunderstand, this isn’t about my daughter and her wanting to be at OU, this is about how comparative schools encourage competitive students to attend. OU only wants good students as a tick mark they can place on a press release, that’s why all they are interested in are National Merit Scholars. My daughter never really wanted to go to OU but she did the standard thing where she applied to schools that were a reach for her to get in, a couple of good schools, but ones that she was pretty sure she would be accepted to, and for safety schools she applied to TU and OU.

She actually was accepted to a reach school and is going there, and got into all the schools in her middle range and all with good scholarship money. Her worst scholarship offer by far was shockingly from one of her “safety schools”. With where she was accepted she wouldn’t go to OU for any amount of money. But OU was the least generous.

The Forbes and US News rankings are not great, but to compare, she got into the highest ranked school she applied to, ranked in the top five, but was rejected by schools ranking #7 and #9. She was accepted by two other schools in the 40-50 ranking range and then TU at 86 and OU at 101.

Her worst scholarship offer by far was from OU at 101.

I didn't misunderstand, I am merely challenging your logic.

Schools have different priorities and strategies which is not at all the same thing as claiming they don't care about the quality of the students.

I didn't misunderstand, I am merely challenging your logic.

Schools have different priorities and strategies which is not at all the same thing as claiming they don't care about the quality of the students.

If the number one driver of scholarship money at your school is a single standardized test taken once only midway through a student’s sophomore year of high school maybe you aren’t really interested in good students as much as you are the awards given from that test.

Yes, it's all a grand scheme to avoid taking good students and specifically your daughter. :rolleyes:


They simply have their own criteria for awarding scholarships, as do all schools. If they chose to place a higher value on National Merit Scholars, that's their prerogative and a strategy that has a clear value, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

Clear value is debatable. Texas did away with their massive scholarship money for National Merit students several years ago because they thought that money was better used elsewhere.

Clear value is debatable. Texas did away with their massive scholarship money for National Merit students several years ago because they thought that money was better used elsewhere.

OU obviously feels -- for them -- the program is a good use of resources otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

The best improvement they could make is increasing scholarships in the physical sciences, engineering, and technology. Many of these academic scholarships leave the field of study open to the student and impose a rather rigid GPA requirement. Given the shortage of scientists and their multiplier effect on the broader economy, OU should prioritize drastic increases in STEM scholarships. Its never going to be a great place to study the humanities, so why let students waste their talent and scholarship money on these less valuable fields of study? Regardless, college affordability is an issue that has to be discussed more often than the twice a year bursar's statements get sent out to make actual progress.

OU obviously feels -- for them -- the program is a good use of resources otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

Of course that's true. The question you need to ask, what I have answered, is WHY they feel it's a good use of resources.

Clear value is debatable. Texas did away with their massive scholarship money for National Merit students several years ago because they thought that money was better used elsewhere.

OU needed to try to build up their academic image while UT is already established as a top tier school. Their marketing and strategic objectives are completely different. OU needed to add more academically accomplished students into the mix and elevate the standards. UT is already attracting them. Plus, UT has huge income that OU doesn't have and they just have more options.

Of course that's true. The question you need to ask, what I have answered, is WHY they feel it's a good use of resources.

I don't need to ask any questions.

I merely trust a Rhodes scholar and former U.S. Senator who lives and breathes these issues and has far more knowledge, concern and personal investment than anyone else.

The strides the university has made under his leadership are very impressive and following the school as closely as I do, I believe even greater things are soon to come.

This has all been very interesting to read. I work at OU so I guess that makes Boren my boss?

I still believe OU is a great value if you want to get certain degrees but I think students really need to look at cost and make a decision on what school to go. UCO is a great alternative for a cheaper degree but still a good accredited college.

The only thing I really worry about is more of these for-profit higher education places popping up. Things like University of Phoenix where they pray on lower income people to spend a lot of loans for a terrible degree.

I also agree with many on here about having a class in high school as an elective for personal finance and maybe one for college prep. Could help students get an understanding of how much they are going to pay.

I was thankful for my mother who told me that she couldn't help my pay for college but helped me get a grasp on what the final amount would be if I went. I got a few scholarships, worked and took out a bit of federal loans. End the end I never accrued interest on my loans as I paid them before the six months was over after I graduated. It can be done but you have to get a degree in a field that has jobs and start working on internships and a resume. Many students get out just fine but I do see others with 40k debt in a social work degree. It goes both ways. Sometimes the students have to be responsible.