Official route, approved 2/16/17 by City Council:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar021716.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcarroute.jpg



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Yep! Here is the video of the route that Catch 22 helped me put together.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnZIQ0tNKg

^

Thanks!

I added the vid to the article as well.

Just curious, will it ever be expanded to the southside as in a citywide streetcar or will stay primarily around the core?

I believe it will be expanded from Capitol Hill all the way to 63rd street as that route is currently being adopted by our Regional Transit System Plan. So the downtown Phase 1 is probably just the beginning. On a personal note, I would like to see the Plaza District and OCU our next Phase of major expansion.

Would that run up 16th? Would it stop at Penn or just carry up to May? May to 10th could give a connection the Fairgrounds.

Shouldn't the planning start now for phase 2? ..... It seems like once the planning begins that there are many years to actually get it up and running.

Also I kept thinking that this route was going to go along 13th street and actually interact with the Edge development. Did Heritage Hills not want it running along their neighborhood boundaries?

Shouldn't the planning start now for phase 2? ..... It seems like once the planning begins that there are many years to actually get it up and running.

Also I kept thinking that this route was going to go along 13th street and actually interact with the Edge development. Did Heritage Hills not want it running along their neighborhood boundaries?

Heritage Hills doesn't extend to 13th Street.

Heritage Hills doesn't extend to 13th Street.

Not physically, but politically...

Shouldn't the planning start now for phase 2? ..... It seems like once the planning begins that there are many years to actually get it up and running.

Also I kept thinking that this route was going to go along 13th street and actually interact with the Edge development. Did Heritage Hills not want it running along their neighborhood boundaries?

I was told the route turns around short of 13th because of costs.

Watching the video I really like the proximity it comes to some areas. making more things walkable. that is another adjustment everyone will have to make. Public transportation isn't about dropping you on the doorstep of everywhere you want to go.. it gets you close enough to walk. when you have been car dependent you don't get that ( que people circling in parking lots to get 30 feet closer to the door )

Shouldn't the planning start now for phase 2? ..... It seems like once the planning begins that there are many years to actually get it up and running.

Also I kept thinking that this route was going to go along 13th street and actually interact with the Edge development. Did Heritage Hills not want it running along their neighborhood boundaries?

I think that "a Phase 2" is entirely possible through the next MAPS. However, which area gets it depends on who fights for it. I think that the Plaza District and Uptown are likely easy candidates. That being stated, I haven't seen them fight for it or press city officials to meaningfully plan for it however.

There is this line that is now part of the Regional System Plan which was drawn in by the consultants several weeks ago. It is expansive and probably presumes some Federal Funding.

And yes, the "original" MAPS 3 Phase 1 System Map did go up to 13th. It was shifted to 11th as the Dewey/11th intersection was thought to be a better transition point to xpand the system to the NW. And yes, Heritage Hills did regularly have people come to our meetings and protest 13th.

I think that "a Phase 2" is entirely possible through the next MAPS. However, which area gets it depends on who fights for it. I think that the Plaza District and Uptown are likely easy candidates. That being stated, I haven't seen them fight for it or press city officials to meaningfully plan for it however.

There is this line that is now part of the Regional System Plan which was drawn in by the consultants several weeks ago. It is expansive and probably presumes some Federal Funding.

And yes, the "original" MAPS 3 Phase 1 System Map did go up to 13th. It was shifted to 11th as the Dewey/11th intersection was thought to be a better transition point to xpand the system to the NW. And yes, Heritage Hills did regularly have people come to our meetings and protest 13th.

Oy vey. Ridiculous.

Oy vey. Ridiculous.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I like it going down 11th Street better than 13th. Closer to all the action in Midtown.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I like it going down 11th Street better than 13th. Closer to all the action in Midtown.
Agreed. Plus it's closer to the sex shop on the SE corner of The Edge so less of a walk...

I agree. 13th is mostly lined with low-density, suburban-style development so I doubt it would be a good candidate for the streetcar anyways.

Agreed. Plus it's closer to the sex shop on the SE corner of The Edge so less of a walk...

True, but I thought the sex shop was going to be right on the corner, facing Heritage Hills? Wouldn't that put it right at 13th and Walker? I could be mistaken of course.

[QUOTE=Sid Burgess;The north side of 13th should have 3 story buildings, south side 3-5. And from then south, MidTown should be free to densify. 13th street TOD gives the city a really good way to manage this important boundary. I'd even be in favor of the city buying up anything it could on 13th to make this easier.[/QUOTE]

The area on the north side of NW 13th is limited to 35 feet or 2 stories.

http://www.okc.gov/planning/downtown_review/documents/new_downtown_handout_amended_6_22_2011.pdf

Sorry if this is a dumb question,but is the phase 2 extension listed part of maps 3, and if so has it been decided? Thanks.

True, but I thought the sex shop was going to be right on the corner, facing Heritage Hills? Wouldn't that put it right at 13th and Walker? I could be mistaken of course.
That's right... Yep, the streetcar should go down 13th!

Sorry if this is a dumb question,but is the phase 2 extension listed part of maps 3, and if so has it been decided? Thanks.
I don't think it is a part of MAPS 3. I think that Phase 2 would be implemented on its own terms based on the success of Phase 1. Urban Pioneer would know best.

I was under the impression MAPS3 included phases 1 and 2, but welcome correction.

I was under the impression MAPS3 included phases 1 and 2, but welcome correction.

Phase I only - there was/is some hope that it might be able to help provide a match for Federal funds for Phase II, if I understand correctly.

Thanks for the correction

Phase I only - there was/is some hope that it might be able to help provide a match for Federal funds for Phase II, if I understand correctly.
There is a phase 1 and phase 2 in the maps budget. And schedule

When I refer to "Phase 2", I am referring to an second major phase to the system funded through some other future initiative. "Phase 2" in MAPS 3 was a way to break the streetcar project up to allow better cash flow and programming for all of the MAPS 3 projects. At the time that this was approved, there were also hopes that we would be elligible for Federal Funds. We have since received significant Federal Funds for both the streetcar and the Intermodal Hub. "Phase 2" has turned out to be completely irrelevant in those matters.

Because of delays on the streetcar due to the wired versus wireless issue and better than expected sales tax revenue collections, I expect that the "Phase 2" in the MAPS 3 Implementation Plan will simply cease to exist. Those discussions are actually ramping up. Phase 1 is running into Phase 2 and available money is not a problem.

We've gotten federal funds for the streetcar? For some reason I thought we had only gotten any for the hub.

Also, am I reading you correctly in that once construction actually starts, it's possible we're going to see both phase 1 and phase 2 go in at the same time? That would be downright awesome, the synergy in building the park and running a streetcar line alongside it at the same time would be fantastic. Not to mention the benefits the system would get by running it down 4th.

Yes. We have received several million dollars specifically for additional track, switching, and a stop in front of the Santa Fe Station. The Santa Fe Station project originally was specifically for the building complex. The combined application brought our initial $10 million MAPS 3 investment to nearly $29 million in combined reciprocal monies. The Feds put in about $14.5. So for Oklahoma City, that is a huge win in large part due to teh streetcar project alone.

And yes, you are reading me right. The project timelines are colliding and the sales tax collections have exceeded projections. That means that projects can move up the timeline slightly as there are funds available to complete them. I would also note that last year's tax collection surplus enabled the mayor to promote and pursue making up the sidewalk mileage deficit. We are very close to being able to complete that project with the number of miles promised. We should be able to completely finish it if there is another surplus and council decides to spend the monies again that way.

Oh that's right, the track in front of the hub.

It's to bad, because I really think that 13th street is better suited for the streetcar route. East to west could have it's own route from Classen over into the medical district.

It's to bad, because I really think that 13th street is better suited for the streetcar route. East to west could have it's own route from Classen over into the medical district.

Agreed.

If you mean between St. Anthony's and OUHSC, we cannot cross the street level BNSF freight railroad tracks that bifurcate 13th street down to 4th street. It is not allowed by BNSF nor the Federal Railroad Administration. We have to go under them at 4th street to get to OUHSC. Interestingly enough, there is not a ton of cross-traffic between St. Anthony's and OUHSC that came out through the surveys and modeling. If there were, an elevated people mover might be a better solution as it could simply go over the tracks. Obviously, it would be very expensive though.

I am not a big fan of going to OUHSC immediately. I would rather us go into the Plaza, up to OCU / Asian District, and connect with the 23rd street bus line first. The new Wheeler District is also an attractive additional reason to build the south Capitol Hill line along Walker down to 25th street. That is if we are using local funds such as from a MAPS 4.

If Federal Funds were involved, I think OUHSCC is probably where that money would be oriented and I am okay with that. The problem with OUHSC is that it's suburban design requires an extraordinary expense to adequately cover all of it. I wish it were built differently. We would have spent the entire MAPS 3 budget just to get over to it.

If you mean between St. Anthony's and OUHSC, we cannot cross the street level BNSF freight railroad tracks that bifurcate 13th street down to 4th street. It is not allowed by BNSF nor the Federal Railroad Administration. We have to go under them at 4th street to get to OUHSC. Interestingly enough, there is not a ton of cross-traffic between St. Anthony's and OUHSC that came out through the surveys and modeling. If there were, an elevated people mover might be a better solution as it could simply go over the tracks. Obviously, it would be very expensive though.

I am not a big fan of going to OUHSC immediately. I would rather us go into the Plaza, up to OCU / Asian District, and connect with the 23rd street bus line first. The new Wheeler District is also an attractive additional reason to build the south Capitol Hill line along Walker down to 25th street. That is if we are using local funds such as from a MAPS 4.

If Federal Funds were involved, I think OUHSCC is probably where that money would be oriented and I am okay with that. The problem with OUHSC is that it's suburban design requires an extraordinary expense to adequately cover all of it. I wish it were built differently. We would have spent the entire MAPS 3 budget just to get over to it.

Thank you for this information. I agree I would rather see it connect to Plaza, OCU/Asian district and uptown rather than OUHSC. especially if the cost is so much greater to get to OUHSC.

Phase 1...Phase 2... It might be easier to think of it as Phase 1A and Phase 1B, which are just timeline variations of Phase 1. Phase 2 would be a whole other plan and financing.

In theory, the route would probably need to run east down NE 4th to Lincoln, up to 13th, east to Stonewall, south to 8th and back west to Lincoln, don't you think? Even if you went up to 13th, to Stonewall, then down to 10th, you could take that all the way across back to Broadway to meet up with the original line.

Yes, that is exactly correct. Isn't it Stanton L Young that runs down the middle? I think that is what was proposed for the eastern side of the system. We also came up with a double track version instead of a loop that simply went across on NE 4th, up Lincoln to 8th, and up Stanton L Young terminating in the middle. Both the loop and the double track were conceived to eventually be extended to the State Capitol and to Lincoln.

We need to release a new master plan. Especially since the Regional Transit folks have come out with their locally preferred alternative on how to extend MAPS 3 streetcar.

Yes, that is exactly correct. Isn't it Stanton L Young that runs down the middle? I think that is what was proposed for the eastern side of the system. We also came up with a double track version instead of a loop that simply went across on NE 4th, up Lincoln to 8th, and up Stanton L Young terminating in the middle. Both the loop and the double track were conceived to eventually be extended to the State Capitol and to Lincoln.

Stanton L Young runs east-west between 13th and 10th. Stonewall runs north-south, two blocks west of Lottie. It isn't the eastern most street on the campus, but it is pretty damn close. Phillips might be a better N-S street because it runs right by the cancer center and the merical center at 10th, the Children's hospital north of Stanton L Young, OMRF at 13th and several parking garages. Plus the Transplant center and VA are about two blocks east and they are a couple of the largest employers in the area.

It's Phillips. That was the street that was in the Locally Preferred Alternative to pursue Federal Funds.

If you mean between St. Anthony's and OUHSC, we cannot cross the street level BNSF freight railroad tracks that bifurcate 13th street down to 4th street. It is not allowed by BNSF nor the Federal Railroad Administration. We have to go under them at 4th street to get to OUHSC. Interestingly enough, there is not a ton of cross-traffic between St. Anthony's and OUHSC that came out through the surveys and modeling. If there were, an elevated people mover might be a better solution as it could simply go over the tracks. Obviously, it would be very expensive though.

I am not a big fan of going to OUHSC immediately. I would rather us go into the Plaza, up to OCU / Asian District, and connect with the 23rd street bus line first. The new Wheeler District is also an attractive additional reason to build the south Capitol Hill line along Walker down to 25th street. That is if we are using local funds such as from a MAPS 4.

If Federal Funds were involved, I think OUHSCC is probably where that money would be oriented and I am okay with that. The problem with OUHSC is that it's suburban design requires an extraordinary expense to adequately cover all of it. I wish it were built differently. We would have spent the entire MAPS 3 budget just to get over to it.

I'm not suggesting OUHSC anytime soon either, because I agree that the bang for the buck is better suited for Classen/Plaza/OCU/Asian and further north along Classen. But somewhere in the future we will need more railroad underpass-crossover points and 13th will probably be where it will be. That is where I believe that 13th would be a better choice for an east west future. I understand the budget and making every dime count, that is what makes this project go.

I look forward to seeing the streetcar. Can you give an update on the timetable for actual seeing tracks installed? Is this 5 years away or is it to soon to know? Thanks!

It's Phillips. That was the street that was in the Locally Preferred Alternative to pursue Federal Funds.

I like that idea, although I will be curious to see how it would go under the pedestrian walkway north of Stanton L Young Blvd. It seems pretty low, although it could be the same height as the tunnels running under the rail rine from Dt to BT and I would be none the wiser.

Our goal is to have the system completed before the next maps vote in December of 2017. I suspect we won't have the entire system done before then but the cars will be delivered and a good chunk of the system capable of being operated. So procurement of vehicles peaks in October and construction lets out the middle of next year after a GC is selected.

Regarding the 13th underpass, it is possible but it would require closing access to several of the business next to the tracks. It's possible that both could be accommodated if 13th is narrowed. Also, you have the I-235 Broadway Extension which is below grade at that point. So its not impossible, but it would take some very clever, if not expensive, engineering.

Warreng, regarding the pedestrian skywalk, I don't know. Your right about the lowered pantograph. It might resolve the issue. Or the crosswalk could be rebuilt. Not sure.

Warreng, regarding the pedestrian skywalk, I don't know. Your right about the lowered pantograph. It might resolve the issue. Or the crosswalk could be rebuilt. Not sure.

Yeah, that is so far out that the whole building might be demoed and something else built there in that time, who knows? Thanks again for all your hard work on this and keep up the good work.

Until the powers that be in the HSC district decide they want to start using urban development practices then I say they get left out of any streetcar plans. Areas of town that are actively engaged in increasing density and walkability should get higher priority. Running mass transit to a low density suburban environment is a guaranteed loser.

but on the other hand, having a streetcar infrastructure in the OHC would encourage the adoption of urban building concepts (you'd think) and could be the catalyst to urban redevelopment of the district.

I wouldn't term it as the OHC should be left out, rather - I'd "delay" the OHC until the dense residential and commercial districts of the 16th Street Plaza, OCU/Asian District, Uptown, and possibly Paseo in the North and perhaps C2S, Riverside, Capital Hill, Wheeler, and possibly Farmers Market/Stockyard's City in the South get tracked. That is unless federal/state funding became available and likely required federal/research institutions (like the very large VA center) to be connected.

Personally, I'd love to see Maps IV with a Streetcar component (with first priority along with a bus expansion) for Phase 2: Inner City Northside and Phase 3: Inner City Southside + better/expended downtown tracking (expending upon the Zeta route to provide cross tracking and add'l stops in downtown districts). Phase 4 could be the OHC and could also connect it to the Uptown phase via the capital on 23rd.

How totally cool will all of this be when the tracks are laid and this much of the central city is covered. ...

but on the other hand, having a streetcar infrastructure in the OHC would encourage the adoption of urban building concepts (you'd think) and could be the catalyst to urban redevelopment of the district.

I'd like to think, but everybody involved in the district has known for some time that the HSC was "on the list" of next-phase expansion possibilities for steetcar, yet not a thing has changed about the mindset of new projects regarding the street, that I can tell.

I'd like to think, but everybody involved in the district has known for some time that the HSC was "on the list" of next-phase expansion possibilities for steetcar, yet not a thing has changed about the mindset of new projects regarding the street, that I can tell.

It's worse than that - they keep approving increasingly worse and worse site plans. They are moving in the wrong direction with increasing speed. The other areas of downtown aren't waiting for a streetcar to begin urbanization so why should HSC area get a free pass? Get with the program or get out of the way.

It needs to be made clear that the streetcar will be conditioned on the establishment of urban design rules. That's the carrot. No urban standards, no streetcar for you.

Exactly. ^

It needs to be made clear that the streetcar will be conditioned on the establishment of urban design rules. That's the carrot. No urban standards, no streetcar for you.

Yes.

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Mayor Mick Cornett and Steering Committee members just approved expansion plans for the OKC Streetcar to Capitol Hill, up Classen to 63rd street, and rapid streetcar to Tinker Air Force Base.

The plans enable the City of OKC and the future Regional Transit Authority to leverage local initiatives pursue Federal matching funds to grow the streetcar system that is about to be under construction.

We will post high quality maps when they become available.

From Streetcar FB page.

So does this mean that Phase 2 is going to include extension to Capitol Hill AND Classen to 63rd? Is the rapid streetcar also going to be included?

To 63rd??? Wow.

Does "Rapid Streetcar" = Light Rail? I don't see how in-the-lane-of-traffic streetcar can be considered rapid unless it has it's own lane/ROW and then we start getting into the blurred lines of light rail right?

I believe the rapid streetcar would run on the commuter rail tracks for a portion of it. Not quite light rail, but not quite streetcar.

So... "hybrid streetcar"

I believe the rapid streetcar would run on the commuter rail tracks for a portion of it. Not quite light rail, but not quite streetcar.

I think it will mean there are no stops and will be separated from traffic (using its own row). You see this a lot in France where in the City Center the streetcar runs in the street with frequent stop (every few blocks) as you would expect. When it gets out of the City Center it switches from travel lanes to the center median and stops are about 1/2 to 1 mile apart.

Yes, but it will use the commuter rail line for parts of it.

Yes, but it will use the commuter rail line for parts of it.

If rapid street car is going to Tinker that means commuter rail won't. They don't need both. The route to Tinker will probably just connect to the street car route in east Bricktown.

If rapid street car is going to Tinker that means commuter rail won't. They don't need both. The route to Tinker will probably just connect to the street car route in east Bricktown.

Correct. The streetcar from Tinker coming in on East Reno would logically connect into the streetcar Sheridan/Reno couplet in east Bricktown. A major problem was always that the line to Tinker is very short for a commuter rail line. Furthermore, it couldn't really be expanded east from Tinker. The line from Shawnee, Harrah and Choctaw comes into downtown along the same alignment as the line from Sapulpa and also the Adventure District Line. What's important now is that careful consideration be given now to streetcar vehicle selection so that the same design can be used in extended streetcar/rapid streetcar/light rail lite mode as the streetcar travels along East Reno (perhaps in a dedicated ROW) and then along the old rail bed between Del City, through MWC and onto Tinker.