Vince Gill's Whenever You Come Around [for chicken]?

Well, the rumor at Founders Tower (and it's just a rumor) is that the George closed yesterday (Oct. 3) and that someone who lives in the building and is associated with Ted's is going to open a new restaurant in the space in a month or so. It will not be a Ted's but will have some of Ted's food, apparently. Further, the rumor goes, the new owner will make the restaurant rotate again, the prices will be a good deal lower than were the George's prices, and the restaurant will deliver to residents of Founders Tower. I heard that about two hours ago.

Interesting.

Ted's is a Hal Smith concept.

Hope they bring back the rotating floor! But the space would have to be completely reconfigured at great expense, given all the work the George put into it.

The value of that space has only gone up, and you'd have to gut most of the front of house in order to make the floor work. So if someone is going to do it, they're probably going to have to dump some $3,000,000 just to open the door.

And I'm not sure the residents would be super hep on a casual dining, high volume restaurant located in their building. Perhaps I'm wrong, but we received several complaints from the residents in the short time that I worked there.

$3 million? Based on what, exactly? That's a pretty specific number, and as someone who's been around many commercial construction projects, it's a difficult number to believe. Teo, did you ever actually see that floor in operation, or even installed? I think that you are envisioning something other than what was actually there. And yes, I have seen the current configuration.

Well maybe if HSRG goes with a Latin concept they will bring in a chef similar to, or trained by, Rick Bayless to run the show... Would be nice to actually get Bayless but I don't think anyone will get him to come back home to stay..... I could appreciate a high end Latin cuisine concept as much as a high end steakhouse.

Interesting.

Ted's is a Hal Smith concept.

Hope they bring back the rotating floor! But the space would have to be completely reconfigured at great expense, given all the work the George put into it.

When did this happen? Are you sure you are not confusing Ted's with Mama Roja's?

When did this happen? Are you sure you are not confusing Ted's with Mama Roja's?

Very sure.

Hal is a partner in the Ted's operation.

$3 million? Based on what, exactly? That's a pretty specific number, and as someone who's been around many commercial construction projects, it's a difficult number to believe. Teo, did you ever actually see that floor in operation, or even installed? I think that you are envisioning something other than what was actually there. And yes, I have seen the current configuration.

I think $3M was pretty close to what it took George to open.

The purchase of the thing will land at about $1.5M, right? I mean, he spent $1.3M on it. Then as far as remodel, There are essentially walls lining every part of the rotating floor except the South side curving a bit into the West side. Perhaps the floor could still rotate in this setting, but all it's going to do is pass by a bunch of walls and you certainly couldn't put tables on the floor had have them be served without taking out the majority one of those walls. So all the construction updates I imagine would be at least $500k - $750k. And then I didn't think that if this is a more casual dining concept that opening expenses wouldn't be nearly as high, that is you're not buying expensive food and you're not stocking a $250k alcohol program and you probably don't need major new kitchen equipment (but that probably is going to factored into the purchase price raising it even more).

So all of that combined I think you land somewhere around $3M

When did this happen? Are you sure you are not confusing Ted's with Mama Roja's?

If I remember correctly, HSRG owns 0% of the original Teds off May, but own's a majority percentage in all the franchises of Ted's.

First off, if someone is selling a distressed business there is no guarantee whatsoever that they will get out of it what they've got in it; much less a profit. Believe me, I know this. Regarding the floor, it consisted of only about a 6'-8' (max) ring immediately next to the windows. There was only enough room for a 4 top and for a server to be standing at the end of the table, IIRC. I didn't make the full circuit when I was there, but didn't see much if anything that would interfere with putting it back into place, and in looking at the plans above feel about the same way. Perhaps a little bit of demo/config.

But the idea that taking over a recently-renovated restaurant space from a failing (according to reports) operator would necessitate double the investment THAT guy made just doesn't hold water with me; sorry. If the parts for the floor still exist, I don't see that costing that much to restore, including necessary reconfig. Maybe a few hundred thousand for floor fix plus all other remodel.

If I remember correctly, HSRG owns 0% of the original Teds off May, but own's a majority percentage in all the franchises of Ted's.

Hal was the local and "lead" invester in the new teds group (not part of hsrg). The beekman group a priviate equity firm out of New York is the majority investor. And I think Hal smith now has little operational input.

Just confirmed that Kevin George informed his staff late Saturday that that would be the last day for the restaurant.

They are now permanently closed and we'll wait to see what evolves in that space.


JMHO but I don't think there is any way they restore the revolving floor. They would have to rip out the massive recent investment made there and it would also cut down on the number of seats. Personally, I don't think that is such a big draw anyway. The setting is plenty great without it.

Always disappointing to see a local restaurant fail but with all the new restaurants popping up the competition has to be tough especially for higher end type places. Pete has said it before but with tons of local options popping up the ability to find qualified and professional waitstaff has to be difficult. Not saying that is why this place failed but I am excited to see what concept they might be here. Personally, I'd rather not see another steak restaurant, but another seafood concept that focuses on fresh fish would really help the local seafood scene or a Latin concept like was mentioned above.

First off, if someone is selling a distressed business there is no guarantee whatsoever that they will get out of it what they've got in it; much less a profit. Believe me, I know this. Regarding the floor, it consisted of only about a 6'-8' (max) ring immediately next to the windows. There was only enough room for a 4 top and for a server to be standing at the end of the table, IIRC. I didn't make the full circuit when I was there, but didn't see much if anything that would interfere with putting it back into place, and in looking at the plans above feel about the same way. Perhaps a little bit of demo/config.

But the idea that taking over a recently-renovated restaurant space from a failing (according to reports) operator would necessitate double the investment THAT guy made just doesn't hold water with me; sorry. If the parts for the floor still exist, I don't see that costing that much to restore, including necessary reconfig. Maybe a few hundred thousand for floor fix plus all other remodel.

If he's going to fire-sale the unit, then that's one thing. I personally don't expect that space to be sold for less than $1.5M and wouldn't be surprised if it touched $2M, and that's half of what my number was.

Regarding the layout, just trust me…there's not enough space to operate 4 tops between many areas around the ring. Walls would absolutely have to come down, and if you start taking down several walls, that changes things a bit.

And again, Kevin invested close to $3M into the project. $1.3M for just the space, and then repairing plumbing, bathrooms, building walls, a bar, wine library, tables/chairs, etc etc etc.

LOL Teo, you don't fail at business and then flip the carcass for a profit. That's not the way the world works. Trust me, I've presided over the liquidation of a couple of carcasses, at great personal expense. He'll be taking what he can get for it, not want he wants for it. That's the cold hard truth.

Bummer, I really enjoyed the few times I ate here. Sounds like the staffing troubles brought them down.

While the space itself is awesome, the location was awkward. The area itself doesn't scream high end steak house, it's isolated, parking lot is dark and you go through a residential building. Places like Red, Mickey Mantles, Broadway 10 have locations that feel high end. The food and service wasn't exquisite to the point people would seek it out despite not the greatest location like The Ranch, or Mahogany. Then finally, it was too expensive to have a good base of daily business from Founders tower.

What is Josh Valentine doing these days? He's had a couple of great concepts and then seems to abruptly leave them. Is he still in OKC?

What is Josh Valentine doing these days? He's had a couple of great concepts and then seems to abruptly leave them. Is he still in OKC?

This is the latest news I've heard about him...

Stranger in a Range Land: The Farm at Carlton Landing is open for inspiration | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5418417?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ShareBar-Twitter)

Always disappointing to see a local restaurant fail but with all the new restaurants popping up the competition has to be tough especially for higher end type places. Pete has said it before but with tons of local options popping up the ability to find qualified and professional waitstaff has to be difficult. Not saying that is why this place failed but I am excited to see what concept they might be here. Personally, I'd rather not see another steak restaurant, but another seafood concept that focuses on fresh fish would really help the local seafood scene or a Latin concept like was mentioned above.

When I visited Pittsburgh a few years back we were told about this awesome upscale fish restaurant (Monterrey Bay Fish Grotto) with a view, and we weren't disappointed! It's on top of a plain apartment building and looks out over downtown Pittsburgh and the Three Rivers area. Something like this would be great for that space! Check out that view:
1158011581

Bummer, I really enjoyed the few times I ate here. Sounds like the staffing troubles brought them down.



It had everything to do with an inept and overbearing owner / manager.... not the staff.

LOL Teo, you don't fail at business and then flip the carcass for a profit. That's not the way the world works. Trust me, I've presided over the liquidation of a couple of carcasses, at great personal expense. He'll be taking what he can get for it, not want he wants for it. That's the cold hard truth.

He's not selling the business. He's selling Real Estate.

That's not to say you're wrong, but at the end of the day, it's the restaurant-concept that is worthless...the top-story of Founder's Tower *is* worth between $1M and $2M. The question is how long can he afford to sit on it in search of top dollar.

It had everything to do with an inept and overbearing owner / manager.... not the staff.

Yeah, that's still staffing troubles. He had troubling keeping good staff.

What is Josh Valentine doing these days? He's had a couple of great concepts and then seems to abruptly leave them. Is he still in OKC?

I saw him at FLINT yesterday speaking with Chef Elizabeth Howe.

Not a personal attack, but proves my arrogance point. If the George thinks it can pay it's bills by nothing but word of mouth and and secret handshakes, cool. However if they shutdown a year from now because they didn't care about the "special occassion" folks, it seems like a stupid way to go.

I wrote this on October 3, 2014. I'll just leave this right here.

I wrote this on October 3, 2014. I'll just leave this right here.

That's not why they failed.

They failed because they couldn't execute a concept that was poorly thought out from Day 1.

I worked there and I knew day 2 of training it wasn't going to work. They had a lot of momentum going into the holidays last year, and they had maintained a lot of quality back of house staff at that point. The front of house was a bit of a mess but it was functional and just needed a decent manager.

The restaurant started advertising and it didn't help them at all. Once again, the lack of advertising is normative. You haven't seen/heard a ton of advertising for Broadway 10 and they're doing great. The Ranch has a strict no advertisement policy, and they're doing great. Mahogany rarely advertises and certainly not enough to really make a difference, and they're doing fine. Freaking Opus Steakhouse has managed to keep its doors open despite being the laughing stock of town. You're probably not going to see advertisements for The Meat Market Refectory, and I bet it's going to do great. In this market, you don't need to advertise these concepts, you simply need to execute them. You need to convince the 4 tops that are going to spend $1000 on dinner to spend $1000 on dinner at YOUR restaurant on a regular basis. You have to get the companies that are going to celebrate a big sale or partnership and Pharmaceutical companies to put you in their regular rotation. You do all of that by executing your concept to a high level, not by putting an add on 98.1 and ABC.

I'm going to be blunt with you man: I've worked in the industry for awhile. When I get a 2-top and their tab is $150, I call you a "tip-share" table. Your tab is relatively meaningless, and when you tip me poorly, I very often don't care. You are inconsequential. What will affect a restaurant is getting blacklisted of a Pharmaceutical company that spends $250,000 a year in restaurants all over the city, or failing to get CHK, DVN, SD, MidFirst, American Fidelity to come into your restaurant because your service sucks or your food quality is poor.

The George started out, in the public eye, as an amazing restaurant, and maintained that level through the first 6 months of its existence. I knew 1 month in the place wasn't going to make it, and it had nothing to do with lack of advertising. It had everything to do with an owner who doesn't understand how the game works.

Broadway 10 has excellent street visibility along one of the busiest corridors downtown. The Ranch and Opus are suburban outparcels but very visible from the street. The George, tucked at the top of the Founders Tower away from the street needs a little more for people to even know its open, especially since the location had been dark for so long. The George didn't even have a website or even social media starting out. Slowly the word got out about the George but by the time it did, it was mostly negative. I don't believe that alone was the reason it failed but my guess is it did play at least some part.

By far and away their biggest problem was that people didn't want to return once they visited.

That is certain death for any restaurant regardless of location or promotion.

By far and away their biggest problem was that people didn't want to return once they visited.

That is certain death for any restaurant regardless of location or promotion.

Good point. I ate there once and while despite the hiccup with my order I enjoyed my experience, I really didn't have a huge desire to return.

Hang on...he OWNS the space? I don't recall seeing that reported anywhere; in fact specifically saw a report early on that said a previous operating group would maintain ownership. But maybe I missed it. Either way, that might put him in even worse shape. Few if any operators are likely to want to own that space. If he truly owns it he will probably have to accept a tenancy.

And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but if someone wanted to revive the rotating floor it woul NOT require major config of the existing space. I went back and looked at plans and photos, and no walls extend past the pillars, which basically defined the space in which the floor operated. A few booths that crowd up to that space might be best removed, but we are talking about renovations probably only in the tens of thousands to make it work. Even when it was Eagles' Nest and Nikz there were places where walls came all of the way to the pillars.

Again I say that people who are saying it won't work and/or isn't an excellent idea for that space likely never experienced it for themselves. There was NOTHING hokey about it.

Amazingly bad tv ad now airing for this place.

Knew this place was done for when I saw this.

Hang on...he OWNS the space? I don't recall seeing that reported anywhere; in fact specifically saw a report early on that said a previous operating group would maintain ownership.

Yes, he bought the top floor just like others have bought condos in the building.

Paid $1.3 million in 2013.

We talked about this several times. Your OCD checking of the Latest Posts must have taken a few days off. ;)

^^^^^^
LOL more than likely it's just the dementia setting in... ;)

Hang on...he OWNS the space? I don't recall seeing that reported anywhere; in fact specifically saw a report early on that said a previous operating group would maintain ownership. But maybe I missed it. Either way, that might put him in even worse shape. Few if any operators are likely to want to own that space. If he truly owns it he will probably have to accept a tenancy.

And I don't want to beat a dead horse, but if someone wanted to revive the rotating floor it woul NOT require major config of the existing space. I went back and looked at plans and photos, and no walls extend past the pillars, which basically defined the space in which the floor operated. A few booths that crowd up to that space might be best removed, but we are talking about renovations probably only in the tens of thousands to make it work. Even when it was Eagles' Nest and Nikz there were places where walls came all of the way to the pillars.

Again I say that people who are saying it won't work and/or isn't an excellent idea for that space likely never experienced it for themselves. There was NOTHING hokey about it.

I'm not against the floor moving again…I think it would be great.

I'm just saying, you gotta put the right concept in there, and if you go super casual, you will have to address the reality that the space needs to be remodeled (to what cost, we would have to see…but I don't think it would be insignificant). So if a more casual concept goes into the space, you have to overcome 1. Initial costs. 2. Advertising and lack of awareness which WOULD doom a $25/person restaurant. 3. Lack of Incidental traffic: Location location location. 4. Tenuous relationship with the residents.

So all of that makes me wonder if HSRG really would get behind a project here, unless they have another upscale concept in mind.

I don't think super casual there works at all. What makes sense - whether a new operator buys or leases - is an upscale place (not necessarily a steakhouse though) that takes advantage of the recent renovation AND acknowledges and caters to the "special event" nature of that space and its biggest strength, the view.

I don't think super casual there works at all. What makes sense - whether a new operator buys or leases - is an upscale place (not necessarily a steakhouse though) that takes advantage of the recent renovation AND acknowledges and caters to the "special event" nature of that space and its biggest strength, the view.

If I were to establish a concept up there, I would push for a restaurant where dinner starts at $100/person and alcohol is more.

The Reunion Tower restaurant is upscale sushi, isn't it?

The Ranch and Opus are suburban outparcels but very visible from the street.


Not saying this isn't true, but I've recommended The Ranch to a surprising number of folks that had the reaction of "I had no idea it was there and have probably driven by it for years".

^

Agree about The Ranch. I really didn't know it was there for a long time and you don't hear many people talking about it.

However, people that go tend to love it and return. Very different than The George.

^

Agree about The Ranch. I really didn't know it was there for a long time and you don't hear many people talking about it.

However, people that go tend to love it and return. Very different than The George.

It's kind of non descript, but the Ranch is consistently used as the comparison for all other steakhouses around the metro.

As it should be.

It's kind of non descript, but the Ranch is consistently used as the comparison for all other steakhouses around the metro.

I agree... When people ask me about The Ranch I usually say "I would go to Mahogany." ;+)

I think it all comes down to my first experiences though and I'm honest enough to say that I've had a couple of steaks at Mahogany, that if they had been my first steak ever there, that possibly would not have inspired me to come back.... Not terrible by any means but not that awesome piece of steak perfection I was served the very first time I ever dined at Mahogany.

My first experience at The Ranch wasn't mind blowing. It was a good steak but not what I would call a great steak. So it did not inspire me to give it a second try when I already had a favorite in Mahogany. Same goes for Red Prime... The first time there was for an office Christmas party so I wrote that one off due to the large quantity of food they had to put out for the party... My second trip was a 5 top and once again I was not wowed by the steak.

My first, and only, experience at The George was excellent and I had every intention of returning until Josh Valentine left and then I started hearing about other staffing issues there.... For that price point I was not willing to risk the return visit when I knew I could go to Mahogany and have an excellent experience.

I say all of this from my personal preference of how I like a steak also. I know there are people out there that like their steaks cooked differently, heck I saw two elderly people swirling bites of their prime filets in a bowl of freaking catsup at The Ranch, and that's why all these places are able to co-exist. They all have slight variances that appeal to different palettes.

As it should be.

Hands down the best steak I've had in the metro. Haven't tried Boulevard, Broadway 10, or Opus yet. But so far, The Ranch has the best quality food and the best service so far of what I've had. And my one trip to the George wasnt terrible. My wife wasn't happy with her steak, but I thought mine was cooked perfectly and exremely tender. Felt the apps and dessert were very lacking for the price, however. Also, the service was a little weak, as our server didn't have the greatest personality and was unaware of a lot of things. Such as being out of two different bottles of wine! Settled for something else in my price range, and I wasn't too happy with it from what I remember.

I know some will be aghast at this comment, but I've never, ever had a great steak.

Every single time I've ordered steak I've left wishing I had tried something else instead.

Have not had the steak at Mahogany, The Ranch or Red Prime though. However, my previous experiences make me inclined to not go to any of these places for red meat. I did not order steak at Red or Broadway 10 due to my prior experiences elsewhere.

I plan to try all eventually and hopefully will have a transcendent experience which will get my back on board with steak.

Haven't tried Boulevard, Broadway 10, or Opus yet.

Went to Opus on a Wednesday night once because Mahogany had a 1 1/2 hour wait.... Opus had an abundance of seating available that night so we decided to try it.... Not one of the best decisions we ever made... My meal was paid for and I still felt like I paid too much.

^^^^^^^
Pete, by your own recent admission you also haven't had Mickey Mantle's. Between there, Red Prime and The Ranch you've missed the best three steakhouses in OKC. We'll get you a decent steak once you get moved back.

And OK BBQ is right. Going to Opus is a terrible decision.

I know some will be aghast at this comment, but I've never, ever had a great steak.

Every single time I've ordered steak I've left wishing I had tried something else instead.

Have not had the steak at Mahogany, The Ranch or Red Prime though. However, my previous experiences make me inclined to not go to any of these places for red meat. I did not order steak at Red or Broadway 10 due to my prior experiences elsewhere.

I plan to try all eventually and hopefully will have a transcendent experience which will get my back on board with steak.

I think there's some interesting wisdom here. I think everyone, in their mind's eye, has this idyllic version of what a steak should be. And, for each person, that "Platonic" vision is slightly different. What's even more interesting is when someone tries to suggest "their" Platonic steak is better than "your" steak, whether it refers to doneness, seasoning, cut, ambiance of environment, casuality (or lack thereof) in dress. Because everyone has these one-off visions of a "great" steak, no *one* instance can ever possibly match it.

Now, at the risk of offending some (and I don't mean to), that "Platonic steak" is influenced heavily by a couple of decidedly non-steak factors; price and environment. You can pay $100 per person and get a lousy steak dinner, and you can pay $10-20 and get a really nice steak dinner. There are some, however, that tend to decide their steak wasn't nearly as good because, who knows, the lights were too dim, the lights were too bright, my wine glass was too tall, my salad fork wasn't chilled, and so one. Some people won't go to certain places because they're "de classe," and some people ascribe unchallengeable virtue to places merely for the fact they charge $100+ a plate. Not saying *everyone* is like that, but there's no doubt that notion is *out there*. Some of the best steaks I've had were at places some folks wouldn't even walk in the front door.

Food is an inevitably subjective experience, so finding universal approval of any one place is nearly impossible. That's one big reason the restaurant business is so hard; getting a "groove" that brings in regular customers across a variety of offerings and maintains quality is anything but easy. Steaks, because they engender such strong feelings, are a special kind of meal that make these expectations even harder to sustain.

Give me a good, quality cut of meat, seasoned simply, cooked the way I like it, and I'm happy. The key is "simply" and "The way I like it" are vicious variables to decode :)

I never had the chance to eat at The George, but the absolute best steak I've ever had was the coal roasted New York strip at the now closed Jean-Ro Bistro in downtown Cincinnati. I've had the good fortune to eat at some of the nicer steak houses in several cities while traveling for business, but nothing has ever touched that experience at Jean-Ro.

The closest I've had in OKC wasn't at Red Prime, Mahogany or Micky Mantle's. Of all places, it was the strip served with a sweet potato waffle at Cheever's. This steak is, sadly, not been on the menu at Cheever's for a few years, and every time I eat there, any other choice is good, but ultimately not what I wish it was. [TUCK- BRING IT BACK!!! PLEASE!!!]

Since we are off topic if anyone goes to Las Vegas and want an all in steak experience go to Cut at the Palazzo. Best overall steak experience I've ever had.

I'm still sticking with Boulevard locally. Not saying the other places aren't great but the quiet dark atmosphere is always appreciated and puts it at the top for me.

I know some will be aghast at this comment, but I've never, ever had a great steak.

Every single time I've ordered steak I've left wishing I had tried something else instead.

Have not had the steak at Mahogany, The Ranch or Red Prime though. However, my previous experiences make me inclined to not go to any of these places for red meat. I did not order steak at Red or Broadway 10 due to my prior experiences elsewhere.

I plan to try all eventually and hopefully will have a transcendent experience which will get my back on board with steak.

My wife would opt for great seafood anytime over steak, even a really good one. I'd prefer a truly fantastic steak but some don't, so you are not alone. With that said, I got some great strips the other night at Rhett's, grilled them up and she didn't mind having half of one!!:)

Give me a good, quality cut of meat, seasoned simply, cooked the way I like it, and I'm happy. The key is "simply" and "The way I like it" are vicious variables to decode :)

Exactly!

A few of us came to the conclusion earlier in this thread. or possibly another, that the reason some of us preferred Red Prime to Mahogany and vice verse was because some of us preferred simple salt and pepper and some of us preferred a steak to be crusted and sauced..... I fall in the salt and pepper crowd.... Which is also why I prefer Central Texas style BBQ to Kansas City style.

I tend to shy away from ordering steak at restaurants since I can make a really good steak at home without too much trouble. I prefer to go to restaurants for food that I cannot replicate easily myself. OKC seems to have plenty of steakhouses, so maybe the next restaurant in this space should be more adventuresome or exotic.

The biggest issue I have with steak is that any decent cut is quite expensive, so if it's not great it's beyond disappointing.

Also, I tend to like multiple dishes with any meal so a big chunk of meat tends to be exclusive to having much else. I'm much more inclined to order a small filet than some bone-in cut the size of a manhole cover.

Good point ^ I think this space deserves something new to the market and somewhat 'exotic' to go along with the gorgeous view. And, not to beat a dead horse, but the floor needs to work, imo.

^^^^^^^
Pete, by your own recent admission you also haven't had Mickey Mantle's. Between there, Red Prime and The Ranch you've missed the best three steakhouses in OKC. We'll get you a decent steak once you get moved back.

And OK BBQ is right. Going to Opus is a terrible decision.

Urbanized,
I second Mickey Mantle's. The Ranch was a little too uppity for me. I called once about their dress requirements and they told me "No Jeans", I was going to wear slacks anyway but the first thing I saw when we walked in was a man in jeans! That was quite a while ago. The next nice night out we decided to try Mickey Mantle's and I was in jeans and it was no problem, and the steak/food was at least as good as The Ranch. We went several times after that and it was always a pleasant experience.
C. T.

The biggest issue I have with steak is that any decent cut is quite expensive, so if it's not great it's beyond disappointing.

Also, I tend to like multiple dishes with any meal so a big chunk of meat tends to be exclusive to having much else. I'm much more inclined to order a small filet than some bone-in cut the size of a manhole cover.

Based on this post alone, you need to go to Mickey Mantle's and have the 7 oz Roquefort filet. I recommend going off-menu a bit and asking them to pepper it first, like they do their pepper steak. It's a great size if you also want to heavily partake in their incredible sides, such as jalapeño bacon mac and cheese or lobster risotto.

If you go to Red Prime suck it up and get the bigger steak (take some of it home if you must). Get the 40 day dry-aged ribeye with the coffee crust and the Red sauce. Hack it in half and concentrate on one half of it so that you can save room for their sides, also amazing. In fact I'll say that Red Prime probably does sides better than any steakhouse in town.

That's not why they failed.

They failed because they couldn't execute a concept that was poorly thought out from Day 1.

I worked there and I knew day 2 of training it wasn't going to work. They had a lot of momentum going into the holidays last year, and they had maintained a lot of quality back of house staff at that point. The front of house was a bit of a mess but it was functional and just needed a decent manager.

The restaurant started advertising and it didn't help them at all. Once again, the lack of advertising is normative. You haven't seen/heard a ton of advertising for Broadway 10 and they're doing great. The Ranch has a strict no advertisement policy, and they're doing great. Mahogany rarely advertises and certainly not enough to really make a difference, and they're doing fine. Freaking Opus Steakhouse has managed to keep its doors open despite being the laughing stock of town. You're probably not going to see advertisements for The Meat Market Refectory, and I bet it's going to do great. In this market, you don't need to advertise these concepts, you simply need to execute them. You need to convince the 4 tops that are going to spend $1000 on dinner to spend $1000 on dinner at YOUR restaurant on a regular basis. You have to get the companies that are going to celebrate a big sale or partnership and Pharmaceutical companies to put you in their regular rotation. You do all of that by executing your concept to a high level, not by putting an add on 98.1 and ABC.

I'm going to be blunt with you man: I've worked in the industry for awhile. When I get a 2-top and their tab is $150, I call you a "tip-share" table. Your tab is relatively meaningless, and when you tip me poorly, I very often don't care. You are inconsequential. What will affect a restaurant is getting blacklisted of a Pharmaceutical company that spends $250,000 a year in restaurants all over the city, or failing to get CHK, DVN, SD, MidFirst, American Fidelity to come into your restaurant because your service sucks or your food quality is poor.

The George started out, in the public eye, as an amazing restaurant, and maintained that level through the first 6 months of its existence. I knew 1 month in the place wasn't going to make it, and it had nothing to do with lack of advertising. It had everything to do with an owner who doesn't understand how the game works.

I was being a little facetious, but mostly patting myself on the back that I predicted that it would close in a year, exactly one year before it closed.

I only copied one comment, but it was really part of a larger discussion about just how lazy our local businesses are about marketing. We've had this discussion in other threads, but it's almost impossible to know when your favorite local place is open, menu, prices, etc without major digging. I haven't been absolutely everywhere, but I have traveled a lot, and OKC is the one of the only places I've seen where so many local businesses think websites and information control is unnecessary voodoo.

To counter the examples of other steakhouses, Broadway 10 is super visible in one of OKC's most desired districts (not to mention beautiful from street view), The Ranch and Mahogany are a stones throw from the richest burbs in Oklahoma, and both have beautiful websites. Meat Market Refectory also has a gorgeous website. The George had none of that for the first 6 months. Yes, restaurants stay open with repeat business, but you need people to actually feel like trying the place.

Also I get that as a server, a 2-top isn't your favorite, but even large groups probably split tickets into twos, and they're buying product that helps keep a place open. To me, you're basically picking and choosing whose money is and isn't good enough for you.

It's not a big deal, we're both probably right as to why this place closed. On to the next brave soul.

Good point ^ I think this space deserves something new to the market and somewhat 'exotic' to go along with the gorgeous view. And, not to beat a dead horse, but the floor needs to work, imo.

Agreed with both points. The space needs to be something fresh and innovative for the market, similar to how The Drake and Ludivine were when they opened in recent years.

To renovate this space, get the rotation going, and make it a success, would the restaurant have to be on the upper-end of the expense scale or could a popular, mid-price restaurant work?

Nothing new here but now reported by the Oklahoman:

The George goes dark; Founders Tower has a tall vacancy to fill | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5451887?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ShareBar-Twitter)


Article incorrectly states Kevin George "took over the lease in 2013" when in fact he bought the entire floor, as we previously discussed.

Good point ^ I think this space deserves something new to the market and somewhat 'exotic' to go along with the gorgeous view. And, not to beat a dead horse, but the floor needs to work, imo.

Yeah, it definitely needs something other than a steakhouse. OKC has steak covered to the point that I'd say we're on the verge of having too many steakhouses. Steak is a little like barbecue; barbecue is difficult to get right, but everyone, including your backyard barbecue guys, think they can make it and make it better than everyone else. Steak isn't quite that complicated but it's a bit the same.