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Charlie40
06-10-2014, 05:54 PM
Does a 15 year old have the right to tell you to get out of there room if you are going in there to let an animal out? Last I knew it was me that owned the house not them am I wrong in my thinking on this?

Achilleslastand
06-10-2014, 08:36 PM
No
No question about it.

BBatesokc
06-11-2014, 06:30 AM
My house rules: Unless you pay the bills and/or otherwise contribute to the household in a meaningful way - you are simply a temporary guest in my home. How temporary? Exert rights you perceive but don't actually have and you'll quickly find out how temporary your guest status is.

Same rules my parents placed on me. So, me and my big britches moved out as a teen (and sorely regretted it). Same thing happened with our teen. He now admits and tells his friends - "stay at home as long as you can, the real world is a b*&ch!"

JohnnyW
06-11-2014, 07:04 AM
Sounds like a very nice and loving home you guys have there. Hope your kids will show you much more love and kindness when they get older.

kelroy55
06-11-2014, 07:10 AM
I would think some of it depends on how you entered the room. If you just walked in without knocking I can understand them saying that but if you knocked first then they were out of line. I raised a couple girls and I always got the evil eye when I went into their room. I did knock and say it was time to let the dog out but for the most part I think that's somewhat normal for a teen that age, especially if it's a girl. This is not saying I wouldn't check the room out later to see if anything was going on :)

BBatesokc
06-11-2014, 07:24 AM
Sounds like a very nice and loving home you guys have there. Hope your kids will show you much more love and kindness when they get older.

Actually, its the deep appreciation of those very rules that I was raised under that gave me full confidence to raise our son under those same rules. And, as pointed out, at 23 he now very much appreciates how he was raised and expresses often he wishes he would have followed the rules that were plainly and consistently made known to him. I imagine he will instill the same in his household one day.

MadMonk
06-11-2014, 07:40 AM
Sounds like a very nice and loving home you guys have there. Hope your kids will show you much more love and kindness when they get older.

Sounds like you are the 15 year old in this scenario. :D

JohnnyW
06-11-2014, 07:42 AM
I hope that advancements in intelligence, technology and communication will soon triumph over tradition of old. Just like corporal punishment, just because it works does not mean it is the best way to do things.

JohnnyW
06-11-2014, 07:49 AM
Sounds like you are the 15 year old in this scenario. :D

Negative. I just know that I would rather have a more loving and caring parents that were open and honest with me. It would make me much more willing to come home and see them and show them love when I got older and wiser.

JohnnyW
06-11-2014, 07:52 AM
Actually, its the deep appreciation of those very rules that I was raised under that gave me full confidence to raise our son under those same rules. And, as pointed out, at 23 he now very much appreciates how he was raised and expresses often he wishes he would have followed the rules that were plainly and consistently made known to him. I imagine he will instill the same in his household one day.

I would not be surprised if there are times he looks back and wishes his parents would of been just a bit more approachable and nicer. He wouldn't admit it or maybe he doesn't ever think it, but just maybe it is possible.

RadicalModerate
06-11-2014, 07:54 AM
I hope that advancements in intelligence, technology and communication will soon triumph over tradition of old. Just like corporal punishment, just because it works does not mean it is the best way to do things.

There's a "Catch 22" or paradox in your statement: Technological advancements seem to be causing decreases in both intelligence and actual communication on a personal level.

JohnnyW
06-11-2014, 07:59 AM
There's a "Catch 22" or paradox in your statement: Technological advancements seem to be causing decreases in both intelligence and actual communication on a personal level.

So you are saying people in the 1920s were as well informed of the politics, weather, family and friends doings? And they were also more in contact and in communication with everyone they knew even if they lived a 1000 miles away?

MadMonk
06-11-2014, 08:34 AM
Negative. I just know that I would rather have a more loving and caring parents that were open and honest with me. It would make me much more willing to come home and see them and show them love when I got older and wiser.
What is un-open and dishonest about making it clear that the child does not make the rules in the home? It really seems like you are reading something more into this and are being awfully judgmental.

Do you think a 15 year old has the right to demand that their parent leaves their room in the original scenario?

BBatesokc
06-11-2014, 09:14 AM
Negative. I just know that I would rather have a more loving and caring parents that were open and honest with me. It would make me much more willing to come home and see them and show them love when I got older and wiser.

I firmly believe that one of the most loving, caring and stress free homes you can create is the one where not only are the rules very clear but they are consistently enforced. Rules that are no more difficult to grasp than being honest, being respectful and doing your best.

JohnnyW you know absolutely nothing of our rules or our household or our family dynamics - but you have zero problem making assumptions out of whole cloth.

Charlie40
06-11-2014, 10:17 AM
He put the cat in his room and shut his door as he was coming out of his room and I got up and opened it to let the cat out so that it wouldn't claw at the carpet around the door tearing it up. I then walked in to his room looking for the cat that is when he came up behind me telling me to get out of his room.

gjl
06-11-2014, 10:32 AM
Sounds like you have already somewhat lost control of your child.

kelroy55
06-11-2014, 10:33 AM
He put the cat in his room and shut his door as he was coming out of his room and I got up and opened it to let the cat out so that it wouldn't claw at the carpet around the door tearing it up. I then walked in to his room looking for the cat that is when he came up behind me telling me to get out of his room.

Now there is more info I would have said when you pay rent it's your room, until then it's mine.

Charlie40
06-11-2014, 11:09 AM
Now there is more info I would have said when you pay rent it's your room, until then it's mine.

Couldn't have said that because that would have sent him on a tirade. that would have escalated more than it was worth. I just walked off talking under my breath, he frequently tell both his mom and me step dad to shut up and stuff like that.

gjl
06-11-2014, 11:20 AM
I retract the somewhat. I went through something similar with a step kid 20 years ago. Today you can see her picture on the DOC web site.

kevinpate
06-11-2014, 11:27 AM
I am Poppa. It is my job to provide for you, love you, and,
within reason, to permit you to make your own mistakes.

I will be there afterwards to help you sort it out. You can
and will gain both wisdom and experience from your choices,
bad ones and good ones alike.

If you are ever in danger, I am your savior first, but I am
Poppa once the dust settles.

I will always rescue you from danger, even if it is of your
own creation. Afterwards, there will be discussion.

There will be reasonable, in my eyes, consequences
as a result of bad decisions. But first and foremost,
you and if need be your friends, will be provided safe
passage, no matter the hour, no matter the circumstances.

There is no situation where you can not call on me to make
you safe.

In the event you do not agree with my decisions, your
disagreement will be noted, but my decision will prevail.

I love you. I adore you. But, I am Poppa.
I am not your best bud.
I am not your partner in crime or mayhem or plain old dumb and/or
dangerous behavior.
I am Poppa.


For better or worse, this is how Pops raised my brothers and I.
It is by and large how our three children have been brought up.

kelroy55
06-11-2014, 12:06 PM
Couldn't have said that because that would have sent him on a tirade. that would have escalated more than it was worth. I just walked off talking under my breath, he frequently tell both his mom and me step dad to shut up and stuff like that.

I remember as a teen back talking my step mother once. The key word is once. Never knew my dad could move that fast and I never did it again.

Teo9969
06-11-2014, 12:43 PM
Sounds like you have already somewhat lost control of your child.

Wow…a guy says one thing on the internet and all of the sudden he's lost control of his kids?

I imagine this is a relatively new occurrence for this guy as he was taken aback by it enough that he asked the question online. If this were a normal occurrence, he'd probably not ask if it were okay.

To be sure, at 15 years-old, I'd think there is some autonomy expected and I think granting them initial-privacy as a parent should be part of the package, but of course you have an obligation to yourself and to the child to also help them understand what privacy entails. Just because it's primarily your space first, does not mean it's inaccessible to all other people, especially where others in the space are involved. In this case, there was a cat in the room…and the cat needed to get out, which is plenty of reason for you to go into his room.

If you just barged into his room at 15 without knocking or having a good reason to enter, then yes, I'd think he'd be warranted in *asking* you to get out "Dad, would you please not come into my room without asking?". Demanding...not so much...

gjl
06-11-2014, 12:55 PM
Wow…a guy says one thing on the internet and all of the sudden he's lost control of his kids?

I imagine this is a relatively new occurrence for this guy as he was taken aback by it enough that he asked the question online. If this were a normal occurrence, he'd probably not ask if it were okay.

To be sure, at 15 years-old, I'd think there is some autonomy expected and I think granting them initial-privacy as a parent should be part of the package, but of course you have an obligation to yourself and to the child to also help them understand what privacy entails. Just because it's primarily your space first, does not mean it's inaccessible to all other people, especially where others in the space are involved. In this case, there was a cat in the room…and the cat needed to get out, which is plenty of reason for you to go into his room.

If you just barged into his room at 15 without knocking or having a good reason to enter, then yes, I'd think he'd be warranted in *asking* you to get out "Dad, would you please not come into my room without asking?". Demanding...not so much...

I guess you skipped right by #18.

Just the facts
06-11-2014, 02:08 PM
I guess it starts early but my kids have never had any reasonable expectation of privacy. It doesn't matter if it is their sock drawer, the top rack in the closet, or their YouTube browsing history - it is all open for inspection. One thing I learned the hard way is allowing a family member to operate outside the watchful eye of other family members is the surest way for activities to take place that you don't want taking place.

MadMonk
06-11-2014, 02:20 PM
I am Poppa. It is my job to provide for you, love you, and,
within reason, to permit you to make your own mistakes.

I will be there afterwards to help you sort it out. You can
and will gain both wisdom and experience from your choices,
bad ones and good ones alike.

If you are ever in danger, I am your savior first, but I am
Poppa once the dust settles.

I will always rescue you from danger, even if it is of your
own creation. Afterwards, there will be discussion.

There will be reasonable, in my eyes, consequences
as a result of bad decisions. But first and foremost,
you and if need be your friends, will be provided safe
passage, no matter the hour, no matter the circumstances.

There is no situation where you can not call on me to make
you safe.

In the event you do not agree with my decisions, your
disagreement will be noted, but my decision will prevail.

I love you. I adore you. But, I am Poppa.
I am not your best bud.
I am not your partner in crime or mayhem or plain old dumb and/or
dangerous behavior.
I am Poppa.


For better or worse, this is how Pops raised my brothers and I.
It is by and large how our three children have been brought up.

I'm making a sign out of that and hanging it on the kid's door. :D

Mel
06-11-2014, 04:59 PM
Firm but fair was the way when I was growing up. I knew who the boss was and did my chores.

Dennis Heaton
06-11-2014, 08:45 PM
I firmly believe that one of the most loving, caring and stress free homes you can create is the one where not only are the rules very clear but they are consistently enforced. Rules that are no more difficult to grasp than being honest, being respectful and doing your best.

These dads can testify to that...

8131 8132 8133

kelroy55
06-12-2014, 07:18 AM
Firm but fair was the way when I was growing up. I knew who the boss was and did my chores.

I remember when on Friday my kids asked for their allowance and I asked if they did their chores this week, knowing they didn't, and let them know when they don't do their chores they don't get an allowance.

Dennis Heaton
06-12-2014, 07:49 AM
I remember when on Friday my kids asked for their allowance and I asked if they did their chores this week, knowing they didn't, and let them know when they don't do their chores they don't get an allowance.

If you are still giving out allowances for doing chores...I am available for adoption! :)

kelroy55
06-12-2014, 08:03 AM
If you are still giving out allowances for doing chores...I am available for adoption! :)

If you want to mow and clean for $5 a week your hired *lol*

and as my dad told me 'I can make another just like you so don't push your luck'

Bellaboo
06-12-2014, 08:13 AM
Couldn't have said that because that would have sent him on a tirade. that would have escalated more than it was worth. I just walked off talking under my breath, he frequently tell both his mom and me step dad to shut up and stuff like that.

Sounds like he's a real problem... good luck.

ctchandler
06-12-2014, 11:05 AM
Kelroy55,
One thing I learned from my mother (dad was thrown out when I was 5 due to infidelity), an allowance is the little bit of money to save a little, and spend and should never be withheld for not doing chores. My mother paid us (there were three, I was the middle child) for chores, and if we didn't do them, we didn't get paid. But of course we still received our pittance of an allowance.
C. T.
I remember when on Friday my kids asked for their allowance and I asked if they did their chores this week, knowing they didn't, and let them know when they don't do their chores they don't get an allowance.

Dennis Heaton
06-12-2014, 01:04 PM
Kelroy55,
One thing I learned from my mother (dad was thrown out when I was 5 due to infidelity), an allowance is the little bit of money to save a little, and spend and should never be withheld for not doing chores. My mother paid us (there were three, I was the middle child) for chores, and if we didn't do them, we didn't get paid. But of course we still received our pittance of an allowance.
C. T.

C.T. ...My foster sister, brother and I each received .50 per week for an allowance back in 19 fifty sumtin, which was a lot to an 8 year old, at least back then. When I moved onto my second foster home, three years later, I got $5 every two weeks from "Uncle Joe." Guess which foster home I liked best?

ctchandler
06-12-2014, 02:22 PM
Dennis,
Was there ever a doubt? You say 19 fifty sumtin, we must be pretty close. I'm 70.
C. T.
C.T. ...My foster sister, brother and I each received .50 per week for an allowance back in 19 fifty sumtin, which was a lot to an 8 year old, at least back then. When I moved onto my second foster home, three years later, I got $5 every two weeks from "Uncle Joe." Guess which foster home I liked best?

Dennis Heaton
06-12-2014, 02:45 PM
Dennis,
Was there ever a doubt? You say 19 fifty sumtin, we must be pretty close. I'm 70.
C. T.

C.T. I am "going on" my 70's...but, I am still scoring a 62 on the links, which entitles me (both of us actually) to a .36 cup of coffee at McD's. Eat your heart out ya young whippersnappers. :)

JohnnyW
06-26-2014, 06:33 AM
I firmly believe that one of the most loving, caring and stress free homes you can create is the one where not only are the rules very clear but they are consistently enforced. Rules that are no more difficult to grasp than being honest, being respectful and doing your best.

JohnnyW you know absolutely nothing of our rules or our household or our family dynamics - but you have zero problem making assumptions out of whole cloth.

For the logical people out there, this is what is called a "Strawman". This gentleman puts up a defense of something that I haven't said anything about. All I have stated was that I would rather come home to parents that were more loving to me and this gentlemen goes on to state that I have wrongly written out his family dynamics in this thread. If he could kindly point me to the post where I listed out his family dynamics, then we could begin a discussion but I would ask that he not take the time because he will not find said post.

Dennis Heaton
06-26-2014, 07:15 AM
I remember as a teen back talking my step mother once. The key word is once. Never knew my dad could move that fast and I never did it again.

I remember "Lava" hand soap. I think I was 8 or 9 years old. "Once" was all it took for me (for talking back). Got paddled "Once," too (for walking down the wrong side of the street). Also, got whooped by my Jr. High School Principal, "Once," (for punching a kid after he slugged a girl).

Bobby821
06-26-2014, 12:28 PM
But using soap or paddleing your kid is considered abuseive now days so you cant do those things anymore, and I doubt you could spank a 15 year old anyway. So you just pretty much have to put up with what they give you and wait for the day they move out.

Dennis Heaton
06-26-2014, 12:34 PM
But using soap or paddleing your kid is considered abuseive now days so you cant do those things anymore....

Paddling becomes rare in Oklahoma schools as disciplinary tool | News OK (http://newsok.com/paddling-becomes-rare-in-oklahoma-schools-as-disciplinary-tool/article/3904825)

I know, I know... :ot:

JohnnyW
06-26-2014, 01:58 PM
Paddling becomes rare in Oklahoma schools as disciplinary tool | News OK (http://newsok.com/paddling-becomes-rare-in-oklahoma-schools-as-disciplinary-tool/article/3904825)

I know, I know... :ot:

I would say this is relevant to the topic. I hope the next article written says, "Paddling becomes history in Oklahoma schools." Inflicting pain upon another person as a form of punishment is an age old tradition that needs to go.

BBatesokc
06-26-2014, 02:45 PM
I would say this is relevant to the topic. I hope the next article written says, "Paddling becomes history in Oklahoma schools." Inflicting pain upon another person as a form of punishment is an age old tradition that needs to go.

I'm all for a little swat to the behind for a kid when its needed and appropriate. I got swats as a kid and so did my friends. It was more about the embarrassment than pain - if done correctly.

Mom didn't have to give swats very often, but when she did it had a far longer lasting effect than 'go to your room' or 'go to time out.'

When I was in military school (San Marcos Baptist Military Academy) they did swats nightly. They'd call your name and you'd file into the hall. One by one you'd go into the office, be reminded what you did and get your swat(s) 1-5 depending on the offense.

Sometimes you had the option to avoid swats and instead stand at parade rest on the field for an 1-3 hours. Rarely did anyone ever elect for that. Get your swat, get it done and go about your business and don't do it again. Prety simple and straight forward.

Dennis Heaton
06-26-2014, 03:51 PM
I guess you skipped right by #18.

Gosh darn it! I wish I could SEE #18.

ctchandler
06-27-2014, 09:12 AM
BBates,
Six of us in the sixth grade, caught throwing snowballs in the classroom. Choice, six swats or write a 500 word theme and get a swat for every mis-spelled word. Two of us took the theme. I was an excellent speller, so no swats. The other kid was a smart alec and wrote "I will" and 491 nevers to say "I will never throw snowballs in the class room again". He got the swats. The only other time I had a choice was when Mr. Hostetter (U. S. Grant HS) offered the dowel rod instead of the paddle. Of course, that little stick (dowel rod) can't hurt! Boy was I wrong.
C. T.
Sometimes you had the option to avoid swats and instead stand at parade rest on the field for an 1-3 hours. Rarely did anyone ever elect for that. Get your swat, get it done and go about your business and don't do it again. Prety simple and straight forward.

SoonerDave
06-27-2014, 09:34 AM
For the logical people out there, this is what is called a "Strawman". This gentleman puts up a defense of something that I haven't said anything about. All I have stated was that I would rather come home to parents that were more loving to me and this gentlemen goes on to state that I have wrongly written out his family dynamics in this thread. If he could kindly point me to the post where I listed out his family dynamics, then we could begin a discussion but I would ask that he not take the time because he will not find said post.

No disrespect, but yours is just as disingenuous by implying your family was "more loving" merely by virtue of the fact that BBates imposed rules. You can't get away with that.

I haven't made any huge deal about privacy "rights" with my kids. They have (almost) none. I've just made it known I can look at anything, anytime, anywhere, including computers, books, and so on. I'm their dad, not their buddy, their landlord, or whatever else might come to mind. And in that time I've come across a few things I had to deal with, they were dealt with, and we moved on. Have I ever gone on a scorched-earth "search and destroy" mission looking for incriminating things? No, but by the same token I've never been given a second glance on those occasions when I've come into their room and looked for something entirely innocuous I suspected might be in a desk or dresser, and I've never had the sense they hesitated in my doing so in a "defensive" way. In that vein, I won't make any pretense of perfection by any means, but neither my 18-year-old son nor my 16-year-old daughter have ever confronted me in the manner described by the OP.

I respect their privacy when it comes to obvious, "duh" things like getting dressed in the morning, of course, but I'd have to assume that goes without saying.

Bullbear
06-27-2014, 09:49 AM
So I wonder if he got the actual answer to his question.. before being banned

SoonerDave
06-27-2014, 01:11 PM
So I wonder if he got the actual answer to his question.. before being banned

Yeah I noticed that, too!! Charlie? I mean, of all folks I suspect might run afoul of things some day, he wouldn't have been among them.

Guess I just missed something, or perhaps something unpleasant has been deleted. Dunno.

Bullbear
06-27-2014, 01:40 PM
[QUOTE=SoonerDave;804803]Yeah I noticed that, too!! Charlie? I mean, of all folks I suspect might run afoul of things some day, he wouldn't have been among them.

Guess I just missed something, or perhaps something unpleasant has been deleted. Dunno.[/Qm
Many unpleasant things were deleted.

SoonerDave
06-27-2014, 02:45 PM
[QUOTE=SoonerDave;804803]Yeah I noticed that, too!! Charlie? I mean, of all folks I suspect might run afoul of things some day, he wouldn't have been among them.

Guess I just missed something, or perhaps something unpleasant has been deleted. Dunno.[/Qm
Many unpleasant things were deleted.

From this thread, I guess?

Bullbear
06-27-2014, 02:57 PM
[QUOTE=Bullbear;804815]

From this thread, I guess?

No not this one.. it was in political threads. I think Pete gave him a pass the first time. then he began in another thread going down the same path.

SoonerDave
06-27-2014, 04:39 PM
[QUOTE=SoonerDave;804849]

No not this one.. it was in political threads. I think Pete gave him a pass the first time. then he began in another thread going down the same path.

Primary reason I just stay clear of the Politics forum. No one is going to change anyone's mind, and all that ends up happening is folks say (well, write) stuff they wish they hadn't. Kinda pointless, and all that results is hard feelings. Not worth it. Won't say I never post there, but it's a rarity.

JohnnyW
06-28-2014, 08:01 AM
No disrespect, but yours is just as disingenuous by implying your family was "more loving" merely by virtue of the fact that BBates imposed rules. You can't get away with that.

I haven't made any huge deal about privacy "rights" with my kids. They have (almost) none. I've just made it known I can look at anything, anytime, anywhere, including computers, books, and so on. I'm their dad, not their buddy, their landlord, or whatever else might come to mind. And in that time I've come across a few things I had to deal with, they were dealt with, and we moved on. Have I ever gone on a scorched-earth "search and destroy" mission looking for incriminating things? No, but by the same token I've never been given a second glance on those occasions when I've come into their room and looked for something entirely innocuous I suspected might be in a desk or dresser, and I've never had the sense they hesitated in my doing so in a "defensive" way. In that vein, I won't make any pretense of perfection by any means, but neither my 18-year-old son nor my 16-year-old daughter have ever confronted me in the manner described by the OP.

I respect their privacy when it comes to obvious, "duh" things like getting dressed in the morning, of course, but I'd have to assume that goes without saying.

Can you please point to the post where I stated my family was "more loving?" This is yet another logical fallacy called a strawman. You have attempted to put up a defense of something that I have simply not stated.

SoonerDave
06-28-2014, 08:10 AM
Can you please point to the post where I stated my family was "more loving?" This is yet another logical fallacy called a strawman. You have attempted to put up a defense of something that I have simply not stated.

Be glad to.


Negative. I just know that I would rather have a more loving and caring parents that were open and honest with me. It would make me much more willing to come home and see them and show them love when I got older and wiser.

You stated quite plainly in response to a post regarding rules and authority that your contrarian preference would be one that was more loving. If that's not an obvious implication that the former is less loving, I don't know what is.

Uncle Slayton
06-28-2014, 08:18 AM
This is one of the threads that has really bugged me...stuck with me (regardless of the posting status of the OP). My parents, rest their souls, would have thought it a parody or some sort of trick question.

I have been whipped with everything from a razor strop to a willow switch (cut by my own hand with my own pocketknife, to my father's specifications) and I turned out just fine, by most societal measures...productive, college educated adult, raised kids who are in college, doing well, can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, etc.

Loved my parents both til the day they died, and miss them every day and not a rancorous thought toward them.

Jeepnokc
06-28-2014, 08:46 AM
This is one of the threads that has really bugged me...stuck with me (regardless of the posting status of the OP). My parents, rest their souls, would have thought it a parody or some sort of trick question.

I have been whipped with everything from a razor strop to a willow switch (cut by my own hand with my own pocketknife, to my father's specifications) and I turned out just fine, by most societal measures...productive, college educated adult, raised kids who are in college, doing well, can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, etc.

Loved my parents both til the day they died, and miss them every day and not a rancorous thought toward them.

Sometimes having to get the switch was more punishment than the swat. My Dad didn't specify. Thus, my 8-9 yr old brain was out in the yard trying to weigh out the mechanics of a green switch bending versus a dead switch maybe breaking. I have turned out ok and absolutely no ill will towards parents.

Dennis Heaton
06-28-2014, 09:06 AM
Sometimes having to get the switch was more punishment than the swat. My Dad didn't specify. Thus, my 8-9 yr old brain was out in the yard trying to weigh out the mechanics of a green switch bending versus a dead switch maybe breaking. I have turned out ok and absolutely no ill will towards parents.

8396

JohnnyW
06-28-2014, 09:29 AM
Be glad to.



You stated quite plainly in response to a post regarding rules and authority that your contrarian preference would be one that was more loving. If that's not an obvious implication that the former is less loving, I don't know what is.

Yes I stated that I would rather have more loving and caring parents. This does not mean that I did have those kind of parents does it? You are making an assumption and therefore again, putting up a strawman as a defense for something I didn't say.

JohnnyW
06-28-2014, 09:32 AM
This is one of the threads that has really bugged me...stuck with me (regardless of the posting status of the OP). My parents, rest their souls, would have thought it a parody or some sort of trick question.

I have been whipped with everything from a razor strop to a willow switch (cut by my own hand with my own pocketknife, to my father's specifications) and I turned out just fine, by most societal measures...productive, college educated adult, raised kids who are in college, doing well, can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, etc.

Loved my parents both til the day they died, and miss them every day and not a rancorous thought toward them.

That is not a logical argument sir. Just because you turned out fine does not mean the method was the most effective. People survived a thousand years ago with no electricity or plumbing and they turned out fine. Does that mean that they lived a better life? Now that we have become more civilized and more intelligent as a species, we can find better methods to raising children other than inflicting pain.

rezman
06-28-2014, 09:40 AM
He put the cat in his room and shut his door as he was coming out of his room and I got up and opened it to let the cat out so that it wouldn't claw at the carpet around the door tearing it up. I then walked in to his room looking for the cat that is when he came up behind me telling me to get out of his room.

Then yes, he was out of line.

Dennis Heaton
06-28-2014, 09:43 AM
Is there ANY connection between the rise in ADHD in children and civilized parents using better methods to raise their children?

rezman
06-28-2014, 09:44 AM
Couldn't have said that because that would have sent him on a tirade. that would have escalated more than it was worth. I just walked off talking under my breath, he frequently tell both his mom and me step dad to shut up and stuff like that.

That is a sure sign that you are not in control of your household.