So after growing up and living in the suburbs pretty much our whole lives, my wife and I got the itch to live closer to the urban core. Being huge fans of the Plaza and Uptown 23rd, it started off as a joke to sell our house and move to Uptown. Well, through a hilarious set of events, we actually found a nice little house we really like and are considering taking the plunge.

I'm not looking to start another Urban vs. Suburban war. What I would like to know is if anyone has made the move from the suburbs to an area like the Plaza. I love the area and it's potential, but growing up in neighborhoods with carpet-like lawns, HOA's, and mass produced housing, the Plaza's can be really exciting but also a little bit scary. Some streets are very well kept and beautiful, then some look very inner-city-esque (no offense to anyone who lives there, just different considering my background).

I'm excited to be a part of the growth of the city, as well as having so much art, music, and culture outside of my door. But I would also love to hear if anyone else has made a similar move and what to expect or look out for. Is there something you didn't consider until you had already moved? And not to give in to the stereotype, is crime something I should be more concerned with than on the city outskirts?

Thanks!

So after growing up and living in the suburbs pretty much our whole lives, my wife and I got the itch to live closer to the urban core. Being huge fans of the Plaza and Uptown 23rd, it started off as a joke to sell our house and move to Uptown. Well, through a hilarious set of events, we actually found a nice little house we really like and are considering taking the plunge.

I'm not looking to start another Urban vs. Suburban war. What I would like to know is if anyone has made the move from the suburbs to an area like the Plaza. I love the area and it's potential, but growing up in neighborhoods with carpet-like lawns, HOA's, and mass produced housing, the Plaza's can be really exciting but also a little bit scary. Some streets are very well kept and beautiful, then some look very inner-city-esque (no offense to anyone who lives there, just different considering my background).

I'm excited to be a part of the growth of the city, as well as having so much art, music, and culture outside of my door. But I would also love to hear if anyone else has made a similar move and what to expect or look out for. Is there something you didn't consider until you had already moved? And not to give in to the stereotype, is crime something I should be more concerned with than on the city outskirts?

Thanks!



It really can be street by street.

Not sure of your desired location, but the area around the Catholic church on 18th and Indiana is pretty nice, but 14th and Indiana aint so pretty...yet.

Some people park cars in their yard and don't mow their grass, so you have to use the cops and code enforcement instead of the HOA, if that sort of thing bothers your sensibilities.

Some times the ghetto chopper hovers in the area with its spot light on, maybe its to make the out of towners at OCU feel safe, I'm not sure.

CTP is a targeted neighborhood. The city is exploring improvements that could make the area S of 16th explode in a few years. I always thought that area has the potential to become something like the Tremont area in Cleveland (the Christmas Story 'hood) where I live! Cottages can be beautiful! I think CTP is also unique bc it has a higher preponderance of 2 story homes than most OKC neighborhoods.

It really can be street by street.

Not sure of your desired location, but the area around the Catholic church on 18th and Indiana is pretty nice, but 14th and Indiana aint so pretty...yet.

Some people park cars in their yard and don't mow their grass, so you have to use the cops and code enforcement instead of the HOA, if that sort of thing bothers your sensibilities.

Some times the ghetto chopper hovers in the area with its spot light on, maybe its to make the out of towners at OCU feel safe, I'm not sure.

:lol2:

Anytime that happens/ed, there is/was a slew of posts about it in my FB feed.

To the OP…it's only going to get better, that's all I can really say. Regardless of the Suburban/Urban debate, I think every person on this forum agrees that the Urban Core is going to be the recipient of much gentrification and urbanization and that it is likely the most dynamic part of the city because of how far away it is from what it should be.

Crime is a possibility anywhere you're at…install plenty of lighting around your home, have an alarm, etc…and you should be fine. You don't need to bar your windows and have 5 deadbolts, just don't make yourself an easy target and you should be fine.

:lol2:

Anytime that happens/ed, there is/was a slew of posts about it in my FB feed.

To the OP…it's only going to get better, that's all I can really say. Regardless of the Suburban/Urban debate, I think every person on this forum agrees that the Urban Core is going to be the recipient of much gentrification and urbanization and that it is likely the most dynamic part of the city because of how far away it is from what it should be.

Crime is a possibility anywhere you're at…install plenty of lighting around your home, have an alarm, etc…and you should be fine. You don't need to bar your windows and have 5 deadbolts, just don't make yourself an easy target and you should be fine.

Teo is right about the lights especially. When I lived in Gatewood and HH east, I was amazed at the number of dark houses I would see. The only time the ghetto bird should worry you is when they are shining it in your own backyard. Then you let the great danes or airedale out and go back to your beer. Big dogs are the best security system/deterrent around.

Lived in the area for awhile and still know people who do. Was also a partner in some rental properties. Personally, I'd possibly live there (if I had to), but I wouldn't if I had a wife or kids. The area I speak of is south of 16th. North of 16th is street by street (as stated by others).

Before we moved last year we saw a couple of houses that we liked around 18th or so, but just didn't want to be surrounded by the criminal element that infests that area. We lived in that type of neighborhood for too long.

However, I would consider additional investment property there.

Lived in Gatewood just prior to the emergence of Plaza (actually during the street scape work & even attended Plaza Main Street Committee meetings). Loved it, LOVED it. Great neighborhood. Plaza's success now would only make the experience better.

Also agree with Jeep's sentiments about security, the ghetto bird, and even the Great Danes.

Get a quality alarm system, good lighting, and a dog and you'll be fine.

That area has been improving over the years, albeit slowly.

That area has been improving over the years, albeit slowly.

Although we wouldn't move back to the area at this stage of our lives (maybe later though after kids move out as we still own the house and the one next door), my wife was commenting about how disappointed she is that the Plaza district wasn't like this in 1994-2002 when we lived at 21st and Douglas. Of course, I am disappointed that Granddads wasn't around during 2002-2007 when we lived at 21st and Robinson. It would have been just a little further crawl home than Blue Note.

My grandparents lived in a house that we redid in the late 70's to early 80's on NW 22nd behind the Sirloin Stockade (I think that was the restaurant). That neighborhood was much different in that era.

I would move there without thinking twice about it. I think living in an evolving neighborhood is exciting and I love restoring/improving houses.

Where are you looking? I live a bit north of 23rd, and absolutely love it. I moved from Edmond to buy my house, and I'm never moving back.

Two years ago we bought a house across the street from St. Francis near 19th and Indiana and absolutely love it. I would say that (generally speaking) Gatewood from Carey Place west is pretty much gentrified, as is the first block or two west of Classen. The middle still has some issues, but it is truly amazing to see the amount of houses that are being fixed up here all the time, certainly a neighborhood in flux for the better.

We also just bought a rental house that we're fixing up in CTP and are excited about the developments there, especially on the east side. Between the city, Positively Paseo, and private investors, there is a LOT of activity going on there behind the scenes...

Thanks everyone for the responses. Great to hear a diverse set of opinions and explanations.

The house we're looking at is at the Indiana intersection a little north of the plaza. It is one of the less gentrified streets but surrounded by the really beautiful ones, so I would imagine that it's on the hit list. For my real estate folks, how do you feel about the home value in that area? Honest truth, we're downsizing to live out our last few childless years in the Core and get a really solid financial foothold before we outgrow the place. Realistically we're looking at 5 years or less. Do you guys see the value really growing in that time for a solid ROI?

Obviously it depends on how good of a deal you get going in, but we bought our house as the top end of price per square foot in the neighborhood 2 years ago, and there have been at least 5 houses that have sold for more (per sq ft) than we paid within two blocks of us since that time. It's going to be block by block, but generally I think you will see home value appreciation outpacing inflation in the area over the next 5 years, more so than in other parts of the metro. I have also noticed that move-in-ready houses in Gatewood west of Carey Place sell very quickly, many within a day or two of listing.

It comes down to location, and as long as the Plaza District is thriving people will want to live nearby and are willing to pay a premium for that walkability. Of course I have a vested interest in home prices in the neighborhood so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I would recommend getting very involved with the Gatewood neighborhood association. Any improvements that can be added (new sidewalks, street lighting, landscaping, Gatewood elementary improvements, etc.)to your neighborhood will only help increase your ROI.

Like already stated, it really depends on what you pay going in and how much you spend improving the house.

When we were looking, some of the houses were a fair price, but many were not. We looked at some homes priced $200,000-$400,000 but they still needed $100,000 or more of improvements over the next 5+ years - meaning we'd never get our money back out in the 1st 10 years.

Personally, I'd buy one that needs a bit of work from someone who wants it gone now. Fix it up, but don't spend a lot of money if you simply plan to resell.

If it's your forever home then go crazy and wait for the neighborhood to catch up. But that's just how I do things.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Great to hear a diverse set of opinions and explanations.

The house we're looking at is at the Indiana intersection a little north of the plaza. It is one of the less gentrified streets but surrounded by the really beautiful ones, so I would imagine that it's on the hit list. For my real estate folks, how do you feel about the home value in that area? Honest truth, we're downsizing to live out our last few childless years in the Core and get a really solid financial foothold before we outgrow the place. Realistically we're looking at 5 years or less. Do you guys see the value really growing in that time for a solid ROI?

That's a fantastic spot, in my opinion.

I have lived in Crestwood for 10 years now. I love it here and spend the majority of my time in the midtown/Plaza/uptown areas of the city. I was displaced for about 6 months after a house fire while my home was being repaired. the insurance company rented us a place in suburbia until house was finished. I hated every minute of it. I felt so far away from everything. we complained constantly that we were so outside of our hood. I think you will love it. neighborhoods can be very street by street and in 10 years i have seen more and more streets get in better shape. I love our block and our neighbors are all great.

I've been following the housing markets in Gatewood, CTP, Jefferson Park and MP/HH and can say with absolute certainty that prices have gone up pretty dramatically and anything decent gets snapped up much more quickly than just a couple of years ago. And these trends are accelerating.

The longer you wait, the more you are going to pay.

And there are plenty of people buying on the sketchier streets which only means they won't be sketchy for long.


The one exception are houses that are complete disasters; the ones that are basically tear-downs.

Looks like you guys weren't lying. The house we were looking at got contracted last night after only 8 days on the market. Oh well, we'll keep our eyes open. This has been awesome information, thanks everyone for their input!

I've lived just south of 16th on Marion (the one-block street in between Blackwelder and McKinley) for 3 years to be close to school (just graduated from OCU Law), and love it. I walked to class most days, even when I had night classes. You quickly learn that there are only a couple of stretches of streets (both in Gatewood and CTP) that you should avoid, and even then it's only at night.

Looks like you guys weren't lying. The house we were looking at got contracted last night after only 8 days on the market. Oh well, we'll keep our eyes open. This has been awesome information, thanks everyone for their input!

That's especially going to happen this time of year, where most people choose to move in the summer.

But still, I've been watching for a while and since the first the year, anything decent gets snapped up within a couple of weeks.

No kidding. In Dec 2010 I bought my house in edgemere for $147.9/sq foot and sold it in 2 hours last august for $164.93

If I were still in OKC, I would definitely be looking at places like Gatewood. One thing I noticed just among my circle is that, save for a few block south of the Paseo and around Douglas Edgemere, the historical neighborhoods east of Classen are becoming out of reach for a lot of people, especially for first time buyers. I got this off of Zillow so take it for what its worth, but I only see 22 houses for sale in that area east of Classen and north of 13th. Most are well north of 300K.

So that leaves more affordable areas west of Classen like Gatewood and other areas that have been "stablized" enough that they would appeal to a wide enough group of potential buyers. I would include Cleveland and Linwood Park in that grouping as well. Crestwood, Miller, Sheppard Heights, and Putnam Heights are not far behind.

I would love to see Positively Paseo increase their output.

They do remodels and new construction in Jefferson Park and CTP and their houses get snatched up almost immediately.

If they (or a similar group or even private developer) could clear out a bunch of blight all at once, even the sketchy streets would turn around pretty fast.

I know Positively Paseo is building or completely remodeling at least 5 houses in CTP this year with more planned in the future, hopefully they can help lead to the same type on revitalization in CTP that we've seen in the Paseo over the last 10-15 years.

I would love to see Positively Paseo increase their output.

They do remodels and new construction in Jefferson Park and CTP and their houses get snatched up almost immediately.

If they (or a similar group or even private developer) could clear out a bunch of blight all at once, even the sketchy streets would turn around pretty fast.

If y'all like Positively Paseo so much, please note that they are a non-profit and gladly accept tax-deductible donations. I'm sure there is a correlation between donations taken in and blight eliminated. Hint hint.

My grandparents bungalow house on 22nd was $8,000 in 1976....that's not missing any zeros. We did have to jack up the back of the house and rebuild the kitchen but everything else was in the 20's on that street at that time.

I live in Crestwood, bought my house in 2007 at $89,000 and we could sell it tomorrow for $125,000 all day. We have done some renovations to it but we love our house, love the neighborhood and probably won't sell it for a couple of years. We are a five minute bike ride from the Plaza district and a little more than that to Midtown.

I live in Crestwood, bought my house in 2007 at $89,000 and we could sell it tomorrow for $125,000 all day. We have done some renovations to it but we love our house, love the neighborhood and probably won't sell it for a couple of years. We are a five minute bike ride from the Plaza district and a little more than that to Midtown.

Crestwood also feeds to Cleveland Elementary, one of the best in OKCPS. Also our realtor told us that the houses in Crestwood are of a better, more-durable design than those in Mesta or Gatewood and tend to have fewer maintenance issues. In spite of all this, we got obsessed with Mesta Park and paid a lot more $$ than we set out to...

If the house I wanted in Crestwood didn't sit right against Villa (way too much road noise), I would be living there instead of Cleveland. I think Crestwood is a fantastic neighborhood. I also think Cleveland is fantastic. As I mentioned up thread, I'm not moving. If I ever do move, it will be out of state or to a retirement home. I'm committed, and I don't quit.

The best deterrent to crime is the influx of non-criminals, and the higher the in-flux rate of non-criminals the faster the criminals move on to some place else, or simply chose to be non-criminals themselves. It is amazing what positive neighbors/role models can do for a neighborhood.

I live in Crestwood, bought my house in 2007 at $89,000 and we could sell it tomorrow for $125,000 all day. We have done some renovations to it but we love our house, love the neighborhood and probably won't sell it for a couple of years. We are a five minute bike ride from the Plaza district and a little more than that to Midtown.

I Could have written this exact post. only the price of our house was slightly different by +/- a few grand. The plaza has been great for us!

I think a big difference from people moving from suburbs to inner city areas are actually seeing poor and transient people daily. You will see the same people and even get to know them a little, the guy that rummages threw your recycle bucket or the guy that holds the sign on the street corner, the guy that hangs out at the 7-11 straight asking for handouts. There are people that will come door to door saying they need food for their new infant baby or sick family members. Some are hustlin' some are in real need. I know this bothers some people, I grew up inner city so it's normal for me. You need to keep an eye out at all times, it's not Detroit or East StL but don't turn a blind eye or be intimidated to report what you see. Don't be afraid to politely say NO either.

Another piece of advice is get to know all your surrounding neighbors, including behind your house. Even if they are renters or less desirable types, let them know you are there and are keeping an eye out for both you and for them. Anyway, that is a few of my 2cents.

I think a big difference from people moving from suburbs to inner city areas are actually seeing poor and transient people daily. You will see the same people and even get to know them a little, the guy that rummages threw your recycle bucket or the guy that holds the sign on the street corner, the guy that hangs out at the 7-11 straight asking for handouts. There are people that will come door to door saying they need food for their new infant baby or sick family members. Some are hustlin' some are in real need. I know this bothers some people, I grew up inner city so it's normal for me. You need to keep an eye out at all times, it's not Detroit or East StL but don't turn a blind eye or be intimidated to report what you see. Don't be afraid to politely say NO either.

Another piece of advice is get to know all your surrounding neighbors, including behind your house. Even if they are renters or less desirable types, let them know you are there and are keeping an eye out for both you and for them. Anyway, that is a few of my 2cents.

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

Bigoted stereotype.

So after growing up and living in the suburbs pretty much our whole lives, my wife and I got the itch to live closer to the urban core. Being huge fans of the Plaza and Uptown 23rd, it started off as a joke to sell our house and move to Uptown. Well, through a hilarious set of events, we actually found a nice little house we really like and are considering taking the plunge.

I'm not looking to start another Urban vs. Suburban war. What I would like to know is if anyone has made the move from the suburbs to an area like the Plaza. I love the area and it's potential, but growing up in neighborhoods with carpet-like lawns, HOA's, and mass produced housing, the Plaza's can be really exciting but also a little bit scary. Some streets are very well kept and beautiful, then some look very inner-city-esque (no offense to anyone who lives there, just different considering my background).

I'm excited to be a part of the growth of the city, as well as having so much art, music, and culture outside of my door. But I would also love to hear if anyone else has made a similar move and what to expect or look out for. Is there something you didn't consider until you had already moved? And not to give in to the stereotype, is crime something I should be more concerned with than on the city outskirts?

Thanks!

I too grew up in the burbs (Edmond).

When we moved back to the OKC metro area, we made the decision to make our home in the inner-city neighborhoods of OKC. After a stint in Jefferson Park, we ended up on Gatewood Ave. between 16th and 17th (next to the Plaza and behind the theater). We lived there from August of 2010 until this April when we packed up and moved to Seattle.

Housing: The homes in Gatewood can be really nice or really rough depending on which street you are on. The nicest areas are generally between Carey Place on the east and Virginia on the west between 16th & 23rd. The nicest (and largest) homes (like Tillyato’s) are clustered around St. Francis. The worst areas are generally along Blackwelder and McKinley between 16th & 23rd. There is another small pocket of nicer homes north of Classen SAS between Douglas and Classen. Most of the multi-family buildings are along 17th east of Indiana with a few others scattered around. These range from nice student/YP housing to tenements. Well-maintained older homes are hard to find. Most have either been extremely neglected or have suffered ill-advised “updates”.

Safety: Most of the “scary” people you see wandering the neighborhood are 99% harmless. They are the remnants of Gatewood past and largely live in dilapidated apartment buildings on the rougher streets. Most just go about their day and mind their own business. I’ve found they don’t really acknowledge anybody outside their “circle”. Others wander the neighborhood digging through dumpsters. Occasionally they will hassle you for change, but not usually.

For a period of time, the 4-plex across from our home was drug house. People of all sorts going in and out at all hours of the day and night. Eventually the dealers moved on, largely as a result of the efforts of myself, our neighbors, and the police. But honestly, even those folks never really caused any trouble. Someone with a bit of capital and know-how could really make some money on that building. I considered doing it myself but the timing wasn’t right (if they would even sell).

Petty crime can be an issue if you don’t take simple precautions. Since many houses don’t have garages, folks park their cars in the driveway or streets. If you leave anything slightly valuable (or something that looks like it could contain something valuable) in your car on a regular basis, I can promise you your window will get knocked out. At a minimum, good exterior lighting is a must.

There is not really any gang activity that I am aware of in the neighborhood. Most of that has moved on to more fertile territory. There is occasional tagging, but it’s more of a nuisance than a threat.

Children: When we moved to J-Park we were expecting our first child, but by the time we left Gatewood we had three children, ages 5, 3, & 1. It worked out extremely well for us. Since I was only 5 min from the office, I could come home and spend my lunch hour with them. We were within an easy bike ride of downtown so we were able to spend a lot of time roaming the Gardens & Bricktown and participating in all the interesting activities going on in the city. A good friend of my lives on 17th and just had his 3rd child. They bought a fixer-upper a few years ago and plan on staying there for a long time.

One down side is that the nearest park is McKinley Park and I wasn’t brave enough to take the kids there. We usually went to Pearle Mesta instead. However, last month a new playground was installed at Gatewood Elementary, so that problem might be solved.

I can’t really speak to the schools since we’re weirdos and home school. However the Plaza District and Gatewood UCD have been very involved in Gatewood and Eugene Field hopefully those schools will improve. With the influx of Millennial parents into the neighborhood, I can imagine the parental involvement in the schools will also dramatically increase as well.

Walkability: In spite of being within the inner-city and its proximity to the Plaza District, Gatewood as a whole is not terribly walkable with some areas being better than others. Most of the mundane goods and services (grocery stores, pharmacies, etc.) are located outside the neighborhood along the bordering arterial streets. A lack of sidewalks, especially along the arterial streets severely inhibits the ability to access these important goods and services. The Plaza District is very walkable, but its scope is still quite limited at this stage.

Transit: Gatewood and the Plaza see to be decently served with routes that run along all the bordering arterial streets and a few that run through the neighborhood along Indiana & 16th. The Plaza is also a likely candidate for an extension of the MAPS 3 streetcar.

Classen-Ten-Penn: There is an occasional house or row of houses that are reasonably well taken care of, but they are few and far between. In spite of the recent interest in the neighborhood, this place is still really rough. The existing housing stock limits this neighborhood’s potential. The houses in this neighborhood tend to be smaller than those in Gatewood and have been allowed to deteriorate much further. Due to their size and condition, a significant number of the houses in CTP are beyond saving. The best hope for this neighborhood is a combination of brave pioneers buying a home and moving into the neighborhood and an intrepid developer who would be willing renovate/rebuild the neighborhood an entire street at a time.

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

Where's the dislike button? My neighborhood in suburbia is full of all different kinds of families, cultures, and races. Just a silly thing to say

This is true. One observation I've made is that inner city dwellers have more in common with residents of small towns than suburbanites. Why? Because just like in inner city, mixed neighborhoods, small town dwellers are used to interacting with people of all social strata. Suburbanites want to live in neighborhoods in which everyone pays the same for their home, looks like them, goes to the same church, etc. They certainly don't want to interact with poor people.

Surely you aren't serious. This kind of inane stereotype reduces credibility to zero or below. So much for enlightened urbanista millenials.

Guru is no Millennial.

Guru is no Millennial.

Sorry, didn't mean to insult all millenials.

lived in gatewood growing up in the 1980's, house was broken into only once and had cars stolen twice. we were always outside, riding bikes, shooting hoops with all the kids in the neighborhood. Lived right by Rosary. Am truly amazed what has happened on 16th. We were not allowed to go to the big boy there or any of those places. I remember there was an awesome hole-in-the-wall BBQ place at one point.