First time poster, love the site.

I had a question regarding highway lighting. The other night I was driving home on Hefner parkway, towards west Edmond and realized how dark it is on that freeway north of about 63rd/Baptist area, same speed limit to road but no overhead lighting, seems very dark out there by the lake, why is that? Why was lighting not included when road was built. And more generally, does anybody know the criteria to add overhead lighting to a roadway, depend on density? Traffic volume? Roadway speed?

Just a guess but maybe it has something to do with the west village residents on the east side of the parkway. I remember years ago they threw up a big stink over the parkway being constructed there.

Part of the agreement for allowing the freeway to be built was to eliminate dusk to dawn illumination along the corridor. OKCRT is on the right track. One day I hope OKC can install high-mast dusk to dawn illumination. It is less clutter. Houston is the best example. However, from what I understand the FAA had some objections for whole routes in OKC installing 150 ft. tall masts crowned with dusk to dawn lights. Currently, OKC uses 100 ft. high masts at its interchanges only.

Maybe in another 50 years ODOT will switch to glow in the dark roads (but don't count on it). How long did it take ODOT to put up the center media catch cables? They aren't exactly quick to embrace new ideas.

BBC News - Glow in the dark road unveiled in the Netherlands (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27021291)


The paint contains a "photo-luminising" powder that charges up in the daytime and slowly releases a green glow at night, doing away with the need for streetlights.

Actually JTF, the Brifen cable system on the Lake Hefner Parkway was the FIRST such installation IN THE UNITED STATES (http://www.icapitol.net/topic_01OF0MMAHY/readstory.oki?storyid=04U0ZNKI2) (it was developed in Europe). Other installations in the state followed soon after. In this case, Oklahoma was actually an innovator - wait...THE innovator - nationally. But don't let that spoil your narrative!



07/16/2007 (OK) The Oklahoma Transportation Commission Monday paved the way for the installation of $5.5 million worth of cable barrier systems across the state in coming months, building on the successful system already in place along Oklahoma City's Lake Hefner Parkway.

Seven stretches of road will feature the cable system designed to help prevent crossover accidents. When installed on Lake Hefner Parkway in 2001, the Brifen cable barrier was the first of its kind in the United States. Thirty other states have since followed Oklahoma's lead in improving highway safety. Since its installation, officials have credited the barrier with preventing hundreds of crossover accidents.


In 2003, as a result of its work with the Brifen system, ODOT received the National Highway Safety Award.

The Brifen cable system was first used in the UK in 1972. 30 years before ODOT used it. Narrative is still intact. It will take a long time for ODOT to adopt the Netherlands glow in the dark roads.

In that case you should say the United States was laggard, not specifically ODOT, who had to get special permission from the U.S. DOT to install the "experimental" cable system on the Lake Hefner Parkway.

I sometimes observe long stretches of interstate in the metro with non-functioning overhead highway lighting. What entity is responsible for maintenance?

I sometimes observe long stretches of interstate in the metro with non-functioning overhead highway lighting. What entity is responsible for maintenance?

I've been asking this question on social media for some time now, and have gotten zero satisfactory responses, even from people who are generally extremely knowledgeable on such matters. It seems that ODOT really has no defined method for citizens to report such things. There is also some conflicting opinion on whether they are the responsible party or OG+E is. If it is within the OKC city limits I think the best bet is to call the City of OKC's Action Center.

You're right; the extended strings out in various parts of the city are an embarrassment and significant safety hazard. Highway lights are not important in the country, where your headlights adequately illuminate for eyes adjusted for darkness. But in the city good illumination can be life-or-death; the lights need to overpower ambient city light to be effective.

In that case you should say the United States was laggard, not specifically ODOT, who had to get special permission from the U.S. DOT to install the "experimental" cable system on the Lake Hefner Parkway.

Fair enough then - the Feds are slow to adopt. Either way, glow in the dark roads won't be here anytime soon. Doing some research on this subject I came across lots of articles about cities turning these lights off becasue of the expense of using them. I suspect most states won't be quick to build new ones where they don't exist now. I know back in 2007/2008 when the economy collapsed most of the street lights here in Jax were turned off.

From 2010:

http://www.springsgov.com/news.aspx?newsid=295


Over 30 percent of City's streetlights to go dark to help keep City in black.
John Leavitt

To help address diminished sales tax revenues and general fund budget gaps, the City of Colorado Springs will begin turning off 8,000 to 10,000 streetlights as one way to save money. The process will begin Feb. 1 and is expected to take about 10 weeks.
City Engineering staff teamed up with employees from the Colorado Springs Police Department and Colorado Springs Utilities to plan the deactivation effort.

"It's just like what many of us are doing at home. When our take-home paychecks are reduced we look for ways to cut expenses. We have more than 24,000 streetlights within the City limits and the energy cost alone to keep all those lights on is about $3.2 million each year. By shutting off between 8,000 and 10,000 of the most inefficient lights we expect to save taxpayers slightly over $1.2 million each year. In these lean times we are all cutting back where we can," explained Dave Krauth, City Traffic Engineer.

One last thing about that Brifen system: it gives me the heebie-jeebies when I'm on a motorcycle. Quite literally it's death on a stick.

One last thing about that Brifen system: it gives me the heebie-jeebies when I'm on a motorcycle. Quite literally it's death on a stick.

That is one of the reason Australia took so long to use them. Of course, what is the alternative - to ride your motorcycle across the median at 70 mph into head-on traffic. Cables or not - you aren't going to live, but at least you won't kill anyone else.

If I slide I'd rather do it down a grass median or even take a glancing blow from a jersey barrier. The trade off is that there is now far less chance of someone crossing over and taking ME out.

Maybe in another 50 years ODOT will switch to glow in the dark roads (but don't count on it). How long did it take ODOT to put up the center media catch cables? They aren't exactly quick to embrace new ideas.

BBC News - Glow in the dark road unveiled in the Netherlands (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27021291)I've known about those for awhile and not a fan of them on larger roads. If they want to include that with high mast lighting, then fine. Those should stay out in the rural interstates though.

I don't mind there not being lights. don't need the light pollution and my headlights should be sufficient.

I don't mind there not being lights. don't need the light pollution and my headlights should be sufficient.


I feel the same. No need for all that.

As long as we start using energy efficient and non light polluting LEDs. They are directional so there is virtually zero light pollution upwards.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6-veygAEH7s/Tz6HXhtxPaI/AAAAAAAAARc/ZklghkJXLEU/s1600/LED+Lamps-B.jpg

All that light is bouncing off something.

As long as we start using energy efficient and non light polluting LEDs. They are directional so there is virtually zero light pollution upwards.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6-veygAEH7s/Tz6HXhtxPaI/AAAAAAAAARc/ZklghkJXLEU/s1600/LED+Lamps-B.jpg+1 It wouldn't hurt if they removed every other light, but that is nice.

Actually JTF, the Brifen cable system on the Lake Hefner Parkway was the FIRST such installation IN THE UNITED STATES (http://www.icapitol.net/topic_01OF0MMAHY/readstory.oki?storyid=04U0ZNKI2) (it was developed in Europe). Other installations in the state followed soon after. In this case, Oklahoma was actually an innovator - wait...THE innovator - nationally. But don't let that spoil your narrative!

i remember being in Europe and reading stories about how the Toll Tag system on the Kirkpatrick in OKC when it opened was the first of its kind and how European roads needed to adopt such systems. Guess who's ahead and who's behind is a matter of perspective sometimes. So easy to bash dear old OK.

As long as we start using energy efficient and non light polluting LEDs. They are directional so there is virtually zero light pollution upwards.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6-veygAEH7s/Tz6HXhtxPaI/AAAAAAAAARc/ZklghkJXLEU/s1600/LED+Lamps-B.jpg

Anonymous, do you have any idea where this picture was taken?

I think it is an artist rendition and not a real photo.

I think it is an artist rendition and not a real photo.

I couldn't be sure. Thanks.

Anonymous, do you have any idea where this picture was taken?

Foshan, Guangdong, China.

The road is Cai Hong Lu.

Here is the same road, but a better photo:

http://www.hitechledlights.com/image/caihonglu.JPG

Personally, I don't see the need for roadway lighting much. But can you consider an area "walkable" if you kill roadway lighting?

Personally, I don't see the need for roadway lighting much. But can you consider an area "walkable" if you kill roadway lighting?

No, for a street to be walkable it needs to have lights, maybe not so much on the road itself but definitely the sidewalks. The style of lamp matters also. 40' tall metal poles won't cut it.

Here is a good read on the subject.

DCmud - The Urban Real Estate Digest of Washington DC: A Modest Icon Returns to D.C., The Washington Globe Streetlight (http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2012/01/dc-embraces-iconic-streetlight.html)

UCO's campus utilizes LED lighting for campus walkpaths and some parking lots. It does a great job and has minimal pollution.

Highways in cities need lighting because there are other lights all around. Your eyes adjust to the ambient light, which makes it harder for your headlights to be effective in picking out details on the roadway. This makes for very unsafe situations in some circumstances. In rural areas, there is less light around, so your eyes are adjusted for darkness. Therefore the light from your headlamps is sufficient. It's science.

I will agree wholeheartedly about how important it is for lighting to be put onto the surfaces requiring it, and as little as possible elsewhere. The best case in point is the lighting on Broadway (Automobile Alley) vs. the lighting in Film Row. Although relatively new, the AA lighting is actually very poor. The retro fixtures are nice to look at during the day, and the kelvin rating (basically the color - whitish metal halide in AA instead of yellowish sodium you see elsewhere in town) is pleasing, but that is where it stops. The AA lights shine straight out in all directions, putting light right into your retina and making it hard to see the buildings, people walking on streets etc.

Film Row, on the other hand, has lights consistent with Project 180. When you drive down that street you instead see streets and sidewalks, and almost zero glare. It is simple to pick out pedestrians, other cars, and to see the buildings themselves. Try it sometime.

We don't pay nearly enough attention to good lighting in this town. We could do a lot more and a lot better with a lot less. I would love to see critical pathways in the city have light audits.

Highways in cities need lighting because there are other lights all around. Your eyes adjust to the ambient light, which makes it harder for your headlights to be effective in picking out details on the roadway. This makes for very unsafe situations in some circumstances. In rural areas, there is less light around, so your eyes are adjusted for darkness. Therefore the light from your headlamps is sufficient. It's science.

I will agree wholeheartedly about how important it is for lighting to be put onto the surfaces requiring it, and as little as possible elsewhere. The best case in point is the lighting on Broadway (Automobile Alley) vs. the lighting in Film Row. Although relatively new, the AA lighting is actually very poor. The retro fixtures are nice to look at during the day, and the kelvin rating (basically the color - whitish metal halide in AA instead of yellowish sodium you see elsewhere in town) is pleasing, but that is where it stops. The AA lights shine straight out in all directions, putting light right into your retina and making it hard to see the buildings, people walking on streets etc.

Film Row, on the other hand, has lights consistent with Project 180. When you drive down that street you instead see streets and sidewalks, and almost zero glare. It is simple to pick out pedestrians, other cars, and to see the buildings themselves. Try it sometime.

We don't pay nearly enough attention to good lighting in this town. We could do a lot more and a lot better with a lot less. I would love to see critical pathways in the city have light audits.+1