Why does South OKC get overlooked by restaurants ? We seem to always be the last choice if even a choice at all. Example hideaway pizza four location on the north side or one in Norman , Tucker's seems to be the next annoying a new location on the north side making it their third. Do these places think the south market just isn't worthy or are the chambers of commerce more aggressive ? I'm sick of driving twenty minutes to get something good to eat.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There is plenty of money and people willing to spend it. The places that do decide to come benefit greatly..take panera bread at SW 104 and penn it is the top performing stores in the state. Same With Ted's

Plus the mindset the has existed since I was a pup is you HAVE to drive north to impress your date.

Why does South OKC get overlooked by restaurants?
One can't help but imagine why S Walker, around SW 89th, hasn't had a
following similar to N Western in Nichols Hills. There's a lot of money on
the south side and no lack of space to grow.

Having lived both north and south, my gut tells me that the map of gross disposable income leads north. I'd say that their gut tells them they want to swim in the deepest water and amongst folks whose income has developed a more varied or discriminating palate through travel and other exposures. Not knocking southsiders one bit. Just the impression I get from management friends in the industry.

It would be cool if the ol' Riviera Drive In was still around. It was the best place to seek your girl in to see a "M" movie.

Plus the mindset the has existed since I was a pup is you HAVE to drive
north to impress your date.
LOL! I must confess that I was such a person. The south side didn't
have the panache of the north side.

This has nothing to do with intelligence or culture. The problem seems
to be location, location,
location.

I think about Nichol's Hills, Pill Hill, and Heritage Hills and can certainly
understand why the south side doesn't have extraordinary restaurants
or venues.

Downtown is north. Cities grew/grow around the downtown area.
For OKC it happened to be in a northerly direction.

Maybe if they ever do something on the East side of Will Rogers they will consider putting in nice restaurants over there. Plenty of suburbs on the West side of town that would drive this direction instead of heading to Edmond-ish.

Not to mention most jobs are in downtown or north so lunch crowds are a factor...Squatzo down south

Maybe if they ever do something on the East side of Will Rogers they will
consider putting in nice restaurants over there. Plenty of suburbs on the
West side of town that would drive this direction instead of heading to
Edmond-ish.
Unlike the north side, most of the spaces to grow on the south side
are east-west streets,i.e. 29th, 44th, 59th, 89th, 119th.

Plus the mindset the has existed since I was a pup is you HAVE to drive north to impress your date.

I always heard you can take your woman out of the south side but you can't take the south side out of your woman. :D

Not to mention most jobs are in downtown or north so lunch crowds are a factor...Squatzo down south

http://www.tinker.af.mil/

http://www.tinker.af.mil/

They come all the way to south OKC for lunch?

They come all the way to south OKC for lunch?

Traditionally blue collar jobs don't really leave the work site for lunch. With a strict break time, most choose to stay at work for lunch, or if they do need to leave, go to fast food.

Office workers typically have a less restrictive lunch schedule.

There are exceptions to the rule on either side, I'm sure.

I actually had friends who passed on buying a home in Moore because of this very reason. They are DINKs who like a night on the town and figured that would simply be easier on the north side.

Even if you ignore the fact that there are far more jobs and wealth north of Reno, you can't just look at income and jobs but consumer behavior as well.

I can guarantee you the person making 60K at Chesapeake probably has completely different set of spending habits and priorities that the person making 60K at Tinker. Doesn't make one better than the other, but in all likelihood the person at CHK is probably freer with their money when it comes to eating out, buying small scale consumer goods, etc.

Could a Cheesecake Factory, PF Changs, etc. do well on 240 or in Moore? Perhaps. But given that OKC in general is a bit of an unproven market, although less so than in years past, restauranteurs and retailers are going to go where its "safer" first in terms of available consumers and income.

Look at this link:

Zip Codes with the Highest Median Household Income in Oklahoma | Zip Atlas (http://zipatlas.com/us/ok/zip-code-comparison/median-household-income.htm)

Look at the #4 and #9 zip codes which is the area around I-44 basically between SW 89th and the river. It has the highest median income. What is interesting is look at the population numbers of the only two OKC zip codes ahead of #4 and they are tiny. After 73170, the next zip code (Edmond) is bigger population wise at 36 thousand versus 21 thousand but then look at the total square miles. It is close to four times bigger sq mile wise. People severely underestimate the income levels in SW OKC. Yet. it is amazing that we have no development along I44. In my neighborhood of thirty homes, there is a dentist, two lawyers, an optometrist, a trucking company owner, an owner of an exterminating company, a guy that owns a private homeland security company, as well as a couple of oilfield guys that own their own private jets (yes...plural on the jets).

The problem for the SW side (73170) is there is no focal point for development.

Other wealthy zip codes (especially on the NW side) have focal points. The far SW side is just 100% subdivisions, and no real development that inspires a focal point to concentrate development on.

Look at this link:

Zip Codes with the Highest Median Household Income in Oklahoma | Zip Atlas (http://zipatlas.com/us/ok/zip-code-comparison/median-household-income.htm)

Look at the #4 and #9 zip codes which is the area around I-44 basically between SW 89th and the river. It has the highest median income. What is interesting is look at the population numbers of the only two OKC zip codes ahead of #4 and they are tiny. After 73170, the next zip code (Edmond) is bigger population wise at 36 thousand versus 21 thousand but then look at the total square miles. It is close to four times bigger sq mile wise. People severely underestimate the income levels in SW OKC. Yet. it is amazing that we have no development along I44. In my neighborhood of thirty homes, there is a dentist, two lawyers, an optometrist, a trucking company owner, an owner of an exterminating company, a guy that owns a private homeland security company, as well as a couple of oilfield guys that own their own private jets (yes...plural on the jets).

I would read that link with the understanding that wealth in OKC, rightly or wrongly, is highly decentralized from a geographical standpoint. ZIP codes are often not the best way to measure HH income in this area.

Since moneyed households are so spread out, think of it like a retailer would. Whole Foods at its location at 63rd and Grand is within 5 miles of Quail Creek, The Greens, Nichols Hills, expensive in-town neighborhoods like Heritage Hills and Crown Heights, and is across the street from a large employer with a few thousand high paid professionals. If the same Whole Foods was at, say SW 134th and May, apply the same 5 mile radius. True, it is in a pretty affluent zip but outside of Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods west of 44 or near Moore, what compares to the 63rd location?

And then, you can't just look at income levels either. Americans by and large live near like minded people who's values and habits can widely vary between groups even among similar incomes. When I was still in OKC I knew quite a few folks on the southside. Many of them affluent blue collar types who owned construction or contractor type businesses, and one or two worked on drilling rigs. Yes they made a lot of money but they spent it on boats, top of the line trucks, ATV's, rifles for hunting, etc. Good people, but they wouldn't be caught dead in a place like Whole Foods. The attitude I got from these people were "we can afford to live in Edmond/North OKC/Nichols Hills but we don't because its too pretentious or snobby." Unfortunately, retailers like the people in Edmond/North OKC/Nichols Hills because they are the one's who will bust out the cash to buy, for example, $20 organic bologna from Whole Foods. On a related note, you can have a field day with this website (http://www.claritas.com/MyBestSegments/Default.jsp?ID=20&pageName=ZIP%2BCode%2BLookup&menuOption=ziplookup). It breaks down demographic groups, and a lot of businesses use info like this to make expansion decisions.

I look at it this way. In NYC, Staten Island is technically the wealthiest and most educated of the 5 boroughs. And yet, I would imagine that Christian Dior or Dolce and Gabanna aren't looking to expand past their Manhattan location, because its the people in Manhattan who are far more likely to spend their money at their stores.

Look at this link:

Zip Codes with the Highest Median Household Income in Oklahoma | Zip Atlas (http://zipatlas.com/us/ok/zip-code-comparison/median-household-income.htm)

Look at the #4 and #9 zip codes which is the area around I-44 basically between SW 89th and the river. It has the highest median income. What is interesting is look at the population numbers of the only two OKC zip codes ahead of #4 and they are tiny. After 73170, the next zip code (Edmond) is bigger population wise at 36 thousand versus 21 thousand but then look at the total square miles. It is close to four times bigger sq mile wise. People severely underestimate the income levels in SW OKC. Yet. it is amazing that we have no development along I44. In my neighborhood of thirty homes, there is a dentist, two lawyers, an optometrist, a trucking company owner, an owner of an exterminating company, a guy that owns a private homeland security company, as well as a couple of oilfield guys that own their own private jets (yes...plural on the jets).

I agree with all of this, but maybe I'm biased. :D

I tend to think that the northside of OKC and Edmond are about five years or so ahead of the nicer southside areas. Also, it regards to Tuckers, they asked the question on facebook and twitter of where the next location should go and the overwhelming response was NorthOKC/Edmond. I know that is not scientific by any means, but it seems there are more people who follow Tucker's on social media on the northside than the southside. It might also have to do with the fact that Moore is five or so miles away from south OKC so they might rather open on I-35 and get Norman, Moore, South OKC traffic rather than open on I-240 and get mostly south OKC traffic.

There is plenty of money and people willing to spend it. The places that do decide to come benefit greatly..take panera bread at SW 104 and penn it is the top performing stores in the state. Same With Ted's

Where did you get this info?

Having lived both north and south, my gut tells me that the map of gross disposable income leads north. I'd say that their gut tells them they want to swim in the deepest water and amongst folks whose income has developed a more varied or discriminating palate through travel and other exposures. Not knocking southsiders one bit. Just the impression I get from management friends in the industry.

Common urban myth in central OK. Highest demographic concentration of disposable income, as documented in a study some years ago (for which I regret I cannot offer a link, but will attest to having read when it was published for what good that's worth) is the area roughly bullseyed by the Rivendell/Greenbriar/Lakeridge Run area in SW OKC around SW 104th/SW 134th. In fact, if memory serves, it was published with a bent on the fact that it was a surprising study, bucked conventional wisdom that Edmond was where all the money was, etc. etc. Wish I could recall more details or context, but alas, that's what I can offer. The study may have been related to some ongoing discussions about the region being undeserved with grocery stores, but I won't swear to that.

Bottom line, there's *plenty* of untapped market for nice eateries along roughly the SW 104th corridor. The SW corner of 104th and May is one such prime location, as would be the SE corner of 119th and May - and that's just for starters.

Absolutely zero reason not to put a nice family restaurant somewhere in that corridor. I frankly don't care if it's a chain or mom-and-pop. Cheddars, Hideaway, Chili's, Applebees, any of those would be well suited for that area - but preferably not Golden Corral or Furrs or the other contemporary bulk-feed troughs. I can't help but wonder if the upcoming WalSlum at SW 104th and I-44 will hasten any possibilities in the area.

Common urban myth in central OK. Highest demographic concentration of disposable income, as documented in a study some years ago (for which I regret I cannot offer a link, but will attest to having read when it was published for what good that's worth) is the area roughly bullseyed by the Rivendell/Greenbriar/Lakeridge Run area in SW OKC around SW 104th/SW 134th. In fact, if memory serves, it was published with a bent on the fact that it was a surprising study, bucked conventional wisdom that Edmond was where all the money was, etc. etc. Wish I could recall more details or context, but alas, that's what I can offer. The study may have been related to some ongoing discussions about the region being undeserved with grocery stores, but I won't swear to that.

Bottom line, there's *plenty* of untapped market for nice eateries along roughly the SW 104th corridor. The SW corner of 104th and May is one such prime location, as would be the SE corner of 119th and May - and that's just for starters.

Absolutely zero reason not to put a nice family restaurant somewhere in that corridor. I frankly don't care if it's a chain or mom-and-pop. Cheddars, Hideaway, Chili's, Applebees, any of those would be well suited for that area - but preferably not Golden Corral or Furrs or the other contemporary bulk-feed troughs. I can't help but wonder if the upcoming WalSlum at SW 104th and I-44 will hasten any possibilities in the area.

I had read the same story several years ago about the same area. It is interesting because the two OKC areas that are higher income have a density of 232 and 176 persons per sq mile while the area just east of I44/SW104 has a density of 1036 persons per sq mile.

Where did you get this info?

Paul Odom

I would read that link with the understanding that wealth in OKC, rightly or wrongly, is highly decentralized from a geographical standpoint. ZIP codes are often not the best way to measure HH income in this area.

Since moneyed households are so spread out, think of it like a retailer would. Whole Foods at its location at 63rd and Grand is within 5 miles of Quail Creek, The Greens, Nichols Hills, expensive in-town neighborhoods like Heritage Hills and Crown Heights, and is across the street from a large employer with a few thousand high paid professionals. If the same Whole Foods was at, say SW 134th and May, apply the same 5 mile radius. True, it is in a pretty affluent zip but outside of Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods west of 44 or near Moore, what compares to the 63rd location?

And then, you can't just look at income levels either. Americans by and large live near like minded people who's values and habits can widely vary between groups even among similar incomes. When I was still in OKC I knew quite a few folks on the southside. Many of them affluent blue collar types who owned construction or contractor type businesses, and one or two worked on drilling rigs. Yes they made a lot of money but they spent it on boats, top of the line trucks, ATV's, rifles for hunting, etc. Good people, but they wouldn't be caught dead in a place like Whole Foods. The attitude I got from these people were "we can afford to live in Edmond/North OKC/Nichols Hills but we don't because its too pretentious or snobby." Unfortunately, retailers like the people in Edmond/North OKC/Nichols Hills because they are the one's who will bust out the cash to buy, for example, $20 organic bologna from Whole Foods. On a related note, you can have a field day with this website (http://www.claritas.com/MyBestSegments/Default.jsp?ID=20&pageName=ZIP%2BCode%2BLookup&menuOption=ziplookup). It breaks down demographic groups, and a lot of businesses use info like this to make expansion decisions.

I look at it this way. In NYC, Staten Island is technically the wealthiest and most educated of the 5 boroughs. And yet, I would imagine that Christian Dior or Dolce and Gabanna aren't looking to expand past their Manhattan location, because its the people in Manhattan who are far more likely to spend their money at their stores.

Rivendell is a good start , but you left out Lakeridge . Lakeridge run, The fountains, Kingswood, Chateney , Cascata lakes , Calistoga Crossing , Vintage Farms, Vinehaven , Olde Tuscany , Ranches of Olde Tuscany, Meadowlake Farms, Rio DaBella,And alot of acreage sites which you mentioned, all upper end subdivisions. Oh well i guess Norman will continue to prosper from the southsiders that make that gaunt done I35 for something to eat. The Warren Theater is the best example of people on the south side supporting something. We have money and we spend it , we just have to drive further to do it.

True, it is in a pretty affluent zip but outside of Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods west of 44 or near Moore, what compares to the 63rd location?


I've lived in S. OKC nearly all my life, and to this day it never ceases to amaze me the conscious (or perhaps merely engrained) refusal to acknowledge the fact that there is "distributed" wealth throughout S. OKC. The very idea that the notion of its "just Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods" persists is stupefying.

I guess some stereotypes will never die, no matter how much fact you throw at them.

I have to hold out hope that the new mixed-use corridor going in around Portland west of I-44 will be a harbinger of new development in the area. Maybe then someone will believe there's money to be made in the area.

Paul Odom

Link?

Link?

Uhmm...unless I'm mistaken, Paul Odom is the developer who built Chatenay, which is the center where Panera is located and has been there since it opened. Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that it is a high-volume location, nor that Odom would know about it. And it would make little to no sense to just make up that name as the source of information otherwise. So I'm giving Garin the benefit of the doubt on that one.

I've lived in S. OKC nearly all my life, and to this day it never ceases to amaze me the conscious (or perhaps merely engrained) refusal to acknowledge the fact that there is "distributed" wealth throughout S. OKC. The very idea that the notion of its "just Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods" persists is stupefying.

I guess some stereotypes will never die, no matter how much fact you throw at them.

I have to hold out hope that the new mixed-use corridor going in around Portland west of I-44 will be a harbinger of new development in the area. Maybe then someone will believe there's money to be made in the area.

I made it down to Moore quite a few times for a few things I needed but since I lived more on the North side I usually stayed on that side of town. For some reason I always thought the OKC south side had more crime and all that but I may have been wrong. I tend to stay in the area that I live or work.

Uhmm...unless I'm mistaken, Paul Odom is the developer who built Chatenay, which is the center where Panera is located and has been there since it opened. Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that it is a high-volume location, nor that Odom would know about it. And it would make little to no sense to just make up that name as the source of information otherwise. So I'm giving Garin the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Oh I wasn't doubting him, I was just curious where he got the info so I could see more of it.

I made it down to Moore quite a few times for a few things I needed but since I lived more on the North side I usually stayed on that side of town. For some reason I always thought the OKC south side had more crime and all that but I may have been wrong. I tend to stay in the area that I live or work.

And the hits of S. OKC stereotypes just keeps on rollin'.... cue the countdown to "It's just a bunch of gangbangers down there!!"

Good.
Grief.

I made it down to Moore quite a few times for a few things I needed but since I lived more on the North side I usually stayed on that side of town. For some reason I always thought the OKC south side had more crime and all that but I may have been wrong. I tend to stay in the area that I live or work.

There are pockets of crime just like N OKC has pockets of crime. I wouldn't want to be broken down at night at NE 23 and Lottie anymore than I would want o be broken down on SE 15th between Portland and I-44

Hey... I did say I could have been wrong but usually stay on the side of town I live and work. If I lived and worked on the south side I'm sure I would have stayed in that area as well.

There are pockets of crime just like N OKC has pockets of crime. I wouldn't want to be broken down at night at NE 23 and Lottie anymore than I would want o be broken down on SE 15th between Portland and I-44

If I am going to have a break down in either area, I would prefer the Lottie area myself. Of course, to the amazement of many, if I am at a mall and my car won't start, I would much rather be waiting on roadside service at Crossroads than Penn Square. What some folk think, and what is, well, these are not always the same.

It surprises me that there is not a hotel and a few sit down restaurants open near INTEGRIS Southwest. It's the only full service hospital in South Oklahoma City and they take many transfers from rural hospitals. I would think there would be a ton of money from to be made from all visitors and patients going in and out of the hospital. Not to mention the employee traffic just simply because hospital cafeteria food has to get old after awhile.

I would love to see a new development on the site of the Sears store. They only use 50% of their parking during the holidays and 10-20% on a good day the rest of the year. The land the sears store sits on would be perfect for new open air shopping center with restaurants and a hotel or two.

Oh I wasn't doubting him, I was just curious where he got the info so I could see more of it.

I can arrange a lunch meeting with him if you'd Like to learn more about S. OKC.

Most folks here South okc and immediately think SW 29th & May or some other crap hole. Its funny restaurateurs are missing out big time and just keep ignoring us.

I've lived in S. OKC nearly all my life, and to this day it never ceases to amaze me the conscious (or perhaps merely engrained) refusal to acknowledge the fact that there is "distributed" wealth throughout S. OKC. The very idea that the notion of its "just Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods" persists is stupefying.

I guess some stereotypes will never die, no matter how much fact you throw at them.

I have to hold out hope that the new mixed-use corridor going in around Portland west of I-44 will be a harbinger of new development in the area. Maybe then someone will believe there's money to be made in the area.

I hope you did not take offense to what I said, but the facts are the facts. Yes there is plenty of wealthy households in South OKC, but there are simply more in North OKC. Its a question of math and probabiltiy, essentially.

I did not list anything in my previous post that any retailer or business doesn't consider when thinking about expansion. Is it always the best way to go for a market like OKC? Not really. Our growth patterns and distribution of wealth do not follow the national norm. OKC in general has only gotten decent retail and restaraunts from the outside for the past 5 years or so. As this market matures and the northside eventually reaches a point of saturation, more businesses will discover the SW side. It will happen in due time.

There are pockets of crime just like N OKC has pockets of crime. I wouldn't want to be broken down at night at NE 23 and Lottie anymore than I would want o be broken down on SE 15th between Portland and I-44

This is absolutely correct. I used to think the Northwest side hardly any crime until my wife started working at Deaconess. Then 2 of her friends that live in the PC North district both got their homes broken into within 5 months of one another. Scared the ones so bad, they moved to Edmond.

It surprises me that there is not a hotel and a few sit down restaurants open near INTEGRIS Southwest. It's the only full service hospital in South Oklahoma City and they take many transfers from rural hospitals. I would think there would be a ton of money from to be made from all visitors and patients going in and out of the hospital. Not to mention the employee traffic just simply because hospital cafeteria food has to get old after awhile.

I would love to see a new development on the site of the Sears store. They only use 50% of their parking during the holidays and 10-20% on a good day the rest of the year. The land the sears store sits on would be perfect for new open air shopping center with restaurants and a hotel or two.

There has been a stab at redevelopment in that area, particularly along 44th with some masonry street linings and such, but I don't think there's any realistic hope for retail redevelopment there because my long-term understanding (which may be bunk) is that Integris will pounce on that unused Sears property if and when it ever becomes available...to expand the medical campus.

I don't have hard data on it, but the other problem is the region roughly bounded on the south by Grand Boulevard just north of Integris going up to around 29th is of widely varying, but generally declining, economic strength. Keep in mind that the area immediately east of Integris (nee Southwest Medical Center) was, in its heyday, the thriving Reding Square shopping center, with a mall that ran from 44th darned near all the way to Grand, but as the area weakened, so did the revenue stream for the mall, and eventually it simply died off - how Sears has hung on there escapes me, as the area just looks so desolate. I fully expect to drive that intersection in the near future and find Sears and/or Target to be boarded up and gone magically just about anytime overnight.

I have a tough time seeing any hotel development around there. It's too far away from either I-40 or I-240 to have easy access, and there's no reason for an out-of-towner to be there other than a) they live there, or b) they know someone at the hospital there. Maybe someone could make it work, but it seems a really tough proposition to me.

I hope you did not take offense to what I said, but the facts are the facts. Yes there is plenty of wealthy households in South OKC, but there are simply more in North OKC. Its a question of math and probabiltiy, essentially.

I did not list anything in my previous post that any retailer or business doesn't consider when thinking about expansion. Is it always the best way to go for a market like OKC? Not really. Our growth patterns and distribution of wealth do not follow the national norm. OKC in general has only gotten decent retail and restaraunts from the outside for the past 5 years or so. As this market matures and the northside eventually reaches a point of saturation, more businesses will discover the SW side. It will happen in due time.

And, with all due respect, what I'm trying to get you to understand is that demographically that's not true! The statistics show that the highest concentration of disposable income IS in SW OKC, and it IS NOT concentrated in just one neighborhood. What you are asserting is urban myth.

Do you think the support for the Fritts Farm area in Moore is solely from folks that live in Moore proper? Or is it that, just maybe, some of that support is coming from OKC Taxpayers who live as far south as SW 149th?

I can arrange a lunch meeting with him if you'd Like to learn more about S. OKC.

Thanks but a link to that info will be more interesting to me.

There is plenty of money and people willing to spend it. The places that do decide to come benefit greatly..take panera bread at SW 104 and penn it is the top performing stores in the state. Same With Ted's


Uhmm...unless I'm mistaken, Paul Odom is the developer who built Chatenay, which is the center where Panera is located and has been there since it opened. Wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that it is a high-volume location, nor that Odom would know about it. And it would make little to no sense to just make up that name as the source of information otherwise. So I'm giving Garin the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Interesting, havent ever heard that. Ive always heard the Mercy, Babtist and Spring Creek stores were some of the top in the region. How long has this Panera been open?

[QUOTE=SoonerDave;774504]And, with all due respect, what I'm trying to get you to understand is that demographically that's not true! The statistics show that the highest concentration of disposable income IS in SW OKC, and it IS NOT concentrated in just one neighborhood. What you are asserting is urban myth.

Actualy, the highest disposable income is concentrated south of I240. If you check the demograghics of the zip codes north of there (73119 73108 73109) you will find that
this area is very low income.

I hate to wade into this, and I'm not sure if I will make friends or enemies from either side of town. But I like others have been fascinated by this statistic since the first time I heard it. I think I have it figured out, after spending more than a little bit of time over the years around those areas for one reason or another. I've always tried to keep an eye out when I was there and to try to figure out just what was going on. I think the reason that zip code fares so well is because there simply is no junk there. The area has been built from scratch over the past couple of decades, not worked in around smaller, older houses, apartments, section 8, etc.. So the posters who are pointing out that there are multiple high-income neighborhoods are absolutely correct. There are also very nice upper-middle-class neighborhoods. There is some undeveloped land. But there is little if any low-end.

The Edmond or north side neighborhoods, while they may have a number of individuals whose net worth eclipses just about anyone else in the state, also have quite a few lesser-than blocks of ramshackle housing, apartments, etc., which drag their per-household numbers down significantly. I'm not sure if that makes either place better, or worse, just different.

Lack of imagination and no champions in city government for the south side of town. I am beginning to think South Oklahoma City would be better off if it wasn't part of Oklahoma City.

Lack of imagination and no champions in city government for the south
side of town. I am beginning to think South Oklahoma City would be better
off if it wasn't part of Oklahoma City.
I lived on the south side from the late 50's until the very early 70's.
Everyone on my street was perfectly normal and far, far from being
poor or lower class.

Lack of imagination and no champions in city government for the south side of town. I am beginning to think South Oklahoma City would be better off if it wasn't part of Oklahoma City.

There is a South OKC Chamber of Commerce: South OKC Chamber of Commerce | (http://www.southokc.com/)
They also have a facebook presence: https://www.facebook.com/southokcchamber
and a Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/SouthOKCChamber

There is a South OKC Chamber of Commerce: South OKC Chamber of Commerce | (http://www.southokc.com/)
They also have a facebook presence: https://www.facebook.com/southokcchamber
and a Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/SouthOKCChamber

Their is no doubt that South OkC gets their asses handed to them from the North Chambers when it comes to people relocating to OKC , they are always 10 steps ahead of the southside which shows. Developers and home builders fight this fight everyday seeing more and more people pushed to look at deer creek, far NW OKC, and Edmond and not even being told about south okc. Again its sad we have nowhere to spend our money.

Their is no doubt that South OkC gets their asses handed to them from the North Chambers when it comes to people relocating to OKC , they are always 10 steps ahead of the southside which shows. Developers and home builders fight this fight everyday seeing more and more people pushed to look at deer creek, far NW OKC, and Edmond and not even being told about south okc. Again its sad we have nowhere to spend our money.

Are you talking housing, entertainment, shops?

Their is no doubt that South OkC gets their asses handed to them from the North Chambers when it comes to people relocating to OKC , they are always 10 steps ahead of the southside which shows. Developers and home builders fight this fight everyday seeing more and more people pushed to look at deer creek, far NW OKC, and Edmond and not even being told about south okc. Again its sad we have nowhere to spend our money.

If SoonerDave's comments are right (and they seem to have been substantiated), then there are PLENTY of people relocating to south OKC, but business just don't seem to realize it.

My experience has always been that southsiders will drive north to spend money, but north won't drive south.

Are you talking housing, entertainment, shops?

Housing is good and plentiful, nothing sits on the market for very long around here. Entertainment is mainly in Moore or Norman , or drive North. Shopping and Restaurants are the big disappointments when Crossroads was in its heyday people would drive from all over the city North , East, South , and West those days are long gone. Whats crazy though is most of south side is going to either Moore or Norman to eat and shop and entertain themselves. Okc is missing out on some major tax dollars I would almost rather Moore take us under their wing and Okc drops us off their roll, they could us the school district as the map for the boundaries.

My experience has always been that southsiders will drive north to spend money, but north won't drive south.

You're absolutely right the only thing worth driving to experience is the Warren.

Housing is good and plentiful, nothing sits on the market for very long around here. Entertainment is mainly in Moore or Norman , or drive North. Shopping and Restaurants are the big disappointments when Crossroads was in its heyday people would drive from all over the city North , East, South , and West those days are long gone. Whats crazy though is most of south side is going to either Moore or Norman to eat and shop and entertain themselves. Okc is missing out on some major tax dollars I would almost rather Moore take us under their wing and Okc drops us off their roll, they could us the school district as the map for the boundaries.


I would think if there was money to be made developers would be going strong in S OKC. Maybe like you said all the development is in Moore and Norman.

Here's all the explanation you need: North OKC = West, Sushi Neko, $15 salads. South OKC = Okie Tonk Cafe, Catfish Cabin, land of the super buffets.

There are some significant cultural differences north and south of I-40. It effects spending habits, frequency of eating out, price per ticket, everything....

... There are some significant cultural differences north and south of I-40. It effects spending habits, frequency of eating out, price per ticket, everything....

Seems like could lead to a negative reinforcement cycle on what numbers businesses would see; if less restaurants are going in then people will spend less time eating out and shift spending to something else, it will justify other restaurants to go other places first too.

Here's all the explanation you need: North OKC = West, Sushi Neko, $15 salads. South OKC = Okie Tonk Cafe, Catfish Cabin, land of the super buffets.

There are some significant cultural differences north and south of I-40. It effects spending habits, frequency of eating out, price per ticket, everything....
Every kid in Harlem owns a pair of $200 air Jordans, I am telling you people have money in S. Okc , buffets exist everywhere and if i want a 15 dollar salad ill go to Charlestons, however if I want a slice of Hideaway pizza I have to drive 20-minutes to get one, Sushi Hyiashi ( i think ) is good so I've heard. I just dont understand why we are always passed by for a north side local.

Here's all the explanation you need: North OKC = West, Sushi Neko, $15 salads. South OKC = Okie Tonk Cafe, Catfish Cabin, land of the super buffets.

There are some significant cultural differences north and south of I-40. It effects spending habits, frequency of eating out, price per ticket, everything....

The last Catfish Cabin was on the north side. I don't recollect there ever being one in South OKC but there was one on the northeast side of Midwest city for quite a while. Just as many, or more, super buffets on the north side.

As far as cultural differences between north and south........ Maybe the wealthy on the south side worked for their money and the people on the north inherited it. Just a thought but maybe that's why south siders spending habits are different.