Looks like the Holiday Inn is going the way of the NW OKC Marriott and lost its flag. This is a Premier Hospitality hotel and they happen to also own the Hilton Garden Inn in town and the new Holiday Inn Express next to Embassy (among a bunch of other hotels in Oklahoma). I know the hotel has been in rough shape, needs a new roof and updates bad, but it's too bad to lose the Holiday Inn brand

How do you loose a Holiday Inn flag? lol

How do you loose a Holiday Inn flag? lol

You beat me to it. Kinda like saying a neighborhood is "Not upscale enough for a WalMart"

If we were playing SimNorman... I would bulldoze that entire section there. The road setup is stupid as it is, but the movie theater is just not any good and the Holiday Inn isn't what use to be. I stayed there one time several years ago when I moving and it was really nice. Sad owners just give up.

I wonder if the new Holiday Inn Express in UNP had any play in this to drop the flag. Looking at the other brands the ownership group deals with...there aren't any that are missing from the Norman market except Springhill Suites - which I can't see being possible. That would take a ton of money to redo.

I could be wrong because it's been quite a few years since it was built, but I seem to remember that it wasn't a Holiday Inn to start with.

I think it was originally a Marriott. I can help but thank of Hotel Norman Bates.

I was thinking Ramada for some reason.

I was thinking Ramada for some reason.

I worked there around 1990 and was a Marriott then. Not sure before that though.

I worked there around 1990 and was a Marriott then. Not sure before that though.

My brain doesn't work well in the morning, so I'm not basing it on anything factual. LOL

Would be nice to get a Marriott here, even though yes we have the largest hotel (and a Marriott at that) in the state...but the NCEP isn't exactly open for the public. :)

...
Would be nice to get a Marriott here, even though yes we have the largest hotel (and a Marriott at that) in the state...but the NCEP isn't exactly open for the public. :)

I think the NCEP is open to all these days. Reading their website, they seem to suggest it is Hotel Near Oklahoma City - NCED Conference Center & Hotel (http://cc.nced.com/) including their specials page at Oklahoma Vacation Packages for an Extra-Special Stay (http://cc.nced.com/special-pkg/specials.aspx)

I worked there around 1990 and was a Marriott then. Not sure before that though.

Didn't remember that. I was thinking the one on 35 had always flown the Holiday Inn flag. But I'll yield to jeepokc on this one. I only ever went to their bar to eat boiled shrimp on Fridays with a lovely friend. She loved shrimp, as did I. Neither of our spouses cared much for boiled shrimp. So we had our shrimp nights for a spell.

I think the NCEP is open to all these days. Reading their website, they seem to suggest it is Hotel Near Oklahoma City - NCED Conference Center & Hotel (http://cc.nced.com/) including their specials page at Oklahoma Vacation Packages for an Extra-Special Stay (http://cc.nced.com/special-pkg/specials.aspx)

Well how about that.

Didn't remember that. I was thinking the one on 35 had always flown the Holiday Inn flag. But I'll yield to jeepokc on this one. I only ever went to their bar to eat boiled shrimp on Fridays with a lovely friend. She loved shrimp, as did I. Neither of our spouses cared much for boiled shrimp. So we had our shrimp nights for a spell.

I may have the wrong hotel in mind. I am speaking of the approx. 8 story tall hotel just south of Robinson on the west side of I 35. Would be north of Big Red Auto

I may have the wrong hotel in mind. I am speaking of the approx. 8 story tall hotel just south of Robinson on the west side of I 35. Would be north of Big Red Auto

We're talking the same property. I just thought it had always been an HI property. But as I sit here mulling it over, there was an HI property on W Main at I-35 when I came to town in 86. That one has been a Super 8 for a long, long freaking time. So looking back, it does seem unlikely, even odd, that 80's era Norman would have had a conference capable HI at W Main at I-35 and a larger conference capable HI a mere mile up the interstate.

I think the NCEP is open to all these days. Reading their website, they seem to suggest it is Hotel Near Oklahoma City - NCED Conference Center & Hotel (http://cc.nced.com/) including their specials page at Oklahoma Vacation Packages for an Extra-Special Stay (http://cc.nced.com/special-pkg/specials.aspx)


This is where I work. It's owned by the USPS and they have contracted Marriott to run the hotel for them and it is a Marriott just like most others minus a few exceptions. (You can even use and earn your Marriott rewards points here). Because the USPS owns it, we're not allowed to advertise ourselves as a Marriott but everyone who works on the hotel side are 100% Marriott employees. A lot of employees have transferred from Renaissance, Gaylord, and other Marriott's all over the country. The big thing though is that it is indeed open to the public, in fact, on OU Football weekends, every one of our 964 rooms is sold out.

On this note, not everyone who works here are Marriott employees, the NCED also comprises of employees from OU, Xerox, and Trax International. Hitachi is also present here with them renting out some office space.

I think it was originally a Marriott. I can help but thank of Hotel Norman Bates.

Yes, I'm very sure you're correct. I remember thinking that going to a Holiday Inn was a downgrade at the time it changed.

Thanks pure. I wasn't real sure if USPS was still out there or at what level. I've only been on the property a couple of times .. a meeting here and there, and conducting a bit of business a few years back.

http://m.hospitalitynet.org/news/4076438.html
Interesting...

Link doesn't work for me.

http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news/4076438.html
Try this. Basically the article says hotel will be converted to a Delta by Marriott...one of the first Delta locations in the US.

from the article:


Atlanta, GA -- Atlanta-based Hotel Equities (http://www.hotelequities.com/) (HE) announced a management contract to operate the Delta Norman by Marriott in Norman, Oklahoma. The 150-room former Norman Hotel will convert to the Delta by Marriott brand as one of the first Delta hotels in the US. It is located at 1000 N. Interstate Drive, only a few minutes from the University of Oklahoma campus.
Marriott announced its acquisition of the Delta Hotels and Resorts brand at the New York University International Hospitality Industry Conference in June of 2015. The Delta brand, formerly located exclusively in Canada, encompasses a rich Canadian history. The hotel in Norman, OK will be the first of the brand located west of the Mississippi. The conversion of the former Norman Hotel is expected to be completed by the end of the first quarter 2017. Premier Hospitality Management, Inc. (PHMI) is the owner of the property.
"Bringing one of the first Delta brand hotels in the nation to Norman and the University of Oklahoma, my alma mater, is exciting both personally and for our organization," said Raj Patel, President and CEO of PHMI. "Our strategic partnership with Hotel Equities has helped us secure an agreement with Marriott International to convert one of the city's largest hotels into a regional icon with this exciting new brand. It will be a pacesetter for the area."

Thanks Kevin! Working from my phone can be challenging at times :)

from the article:
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This is certainly great news for that property.

Any idea what happened to this being turned into a Delta by Marriott? If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be renovated and re-flagged by 1Q of 2017, but the place looks deserted and has for quite some time.

Any idea what happened to this being turned into a Delta by Marriott? If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be renovated and re-flagged by 1Q of 2017.

Last time I drove by the property looked abondoned

I drove by about a week ago and there was about 20 cars in the parking lot during the day but they were gone by the evening. There is a white pickup that has been in the parking lot for months and hasn't moved.

Definitely don't see signs they are renting out any rooms or making any effort to remodel from the outside.

Noticed yesterday two large construction dumpsters have now been placed on the north side of the building and several trucks were present in the parking lot. Perhaps this project is about to begin.

I drove by there the other night. Place is creepy at night. noticed the back wall of the hotel had fallen off on the first story.

I can't find the below permit that is referenced. Anybody else able to find it?

http://www.normantranscript.com/news/business/around-town-remembering-norman-s-past/article_3ed22a40-138a-5408-9af8-ebb03d23d9e3.html

West Norman
A building permit was recently issued for a remodel of the Delta Norman by Marriott, 1000 Interstate Dr. This is the former Norman Hotel.

Scaffolding has been put in along the I-35 facing section of the building and three containers have been set on the site. It appears they may be beginning to start working on this.

This place is looking rough! No work appears to be happening.

I believe there is some structural damage the new owners discovered when they were remodeling. The southeast corner looks to have structure damage at the entrance and looks to be collapsing. They might be in a lawsuit with the former owners for not disclosing this damage in the sale. If you drive on the frontage road and look at the support column on the southeast corner you can see the damage.

Driving thru Norman this weekend and this property looks horrible. Are they actively working on repairing this building or is is just falling apart? It’s been empty for years now. I looks just abandoned and falling apart

Driving thru Norman this weekend and this property looks horrible. Are they actively working on repairing this building or is is just falling apart? It’s been empty for years now. I looks just abandoned and falling apart

Great question. Property is still owned by Norman Hospitality, LLC since 1997. At one time back in the late 80s/early 90s, this was arguably the top hotel in Norman. But they didn't keep the place updated as newer and nicer options came to Norman (Embassy and others). They lost their Holiday Inn Flag in 2014, and they closed for good not long after that.

Around two years ago, they had rolling dumpsters dropped off and it look like a full scale remodel was underway. They started removing the old EFIS that was damaged by the May 2015 EF1 tornado, erected scaffolding on the outside, and they began ripping out all of the interiors. Then after about three/four months or so of progress, everybody packed up and left. Only speculating, but perhaps contractors weren't getting paid or something? Maybe they found mold or asbestos? Severe structural issues? I'm not sure who knows at this point.

You'd think the City of Norman would have made these people do something with this place by now as it's been over 4 years that this facility has sat completely abandoned, in major disrepair, and in plain view to everyone right off of the Interstate. Not only is it an eyesore, but a total embarrassment that doesn't seem to get any attention by city leaders.

^ What sort of options would the city have to compel action in a case such as this? Condemn the property and take it under eminent domain?

^ What sort of options would the city have to compel action in a case such as this? Condemn the property and take it under eminent domain?

I think they can issue code violations and fines. If those go untouched/not remedied the city can take action and that could be taking over property and removing building if it is condemned. Currrently it looks like it would make sense to tear down honestly.

I know cities do this with much smaller properties all the time. I think they then own the land and try to sell off.
I’m sure there is a strict process and time frame such must go thru

I think they can issue code violations and fines. If those go untouched/not remedied the city can take action and that could be taking over property and removing building if it is condemned. Currrently it looks like it would make sense to tear down honestly.

I know cities do this with much smaller properties all the time. I think they then own the land and try to sell off.
IÂ’m sure there is a strict process and time frame such must go thru

I don't know what remedies the City of Norman has at their disposal, but it appears they aren't using any of them. Parking Enforcement is notorious for writing tickets and placing them on cars parked in the street for more than 24 hours, yet a six story hotel that sits on one of the busiest Interstates in the region can sit abandoned and deteriorate in front of everyone's eyes for nearly 5 years and they do nothing about it? Mayor Clark has been seen at Campus Corner on several occasions over the last year merely to find out who is and who isn't following her and the City Council's mask mandate. With that much time on her hands, one would think she'd have done something about this already.

I think they can issue code violations and fines. If those go untouched/not remedied the city can take action and that could be taking over property and removing building if it is condemned. Currrently it looks like it would make sense to tear down honestly.

I know cities do this with much smaller properties all the time. I think they then own the land and try to sell off.
I’m sure there is a strict process and time frame such must go thru

I don't know what remedies the City of Norman has at their disposal, but it appears they haven't been using any of them successfully. In Norman residential areas, Parking Enforcement is notorious for writing tickets and placing them on cars parked in the street for more than 24 hours, yet a six story hotel that sits on one of the busiest Interstates in the region can sit abandoned and deteriorate in front of everyone's eyes for nearly 5 years and they do nothing about it?

Mayor Clark has been seen at Campus Corner on several occasions over the last year merely to find out who is and who isn't following her and the City Council's mask mandate. With that much time on her hands, one would think she'd have done something about this already.

I saw it while staying in Norman a few days ago. It's an eyesore that's really a bad look for Norman. It's location is prime for a hotel, even if torn down and rebuilt. At this point the building looks relatively worthless.

IAt this point the building looks relatively worthless.

These days, it'd probably be worth more as a pile of used bricks and fixtures for sale.

I saw it while staying in Norman a few days ago. It's an eyesore that's really a bad look for Norman. It's location is prime for a hotel, even if torn down and rebuilt. At this point the building looks relatively worthless.

Agree 100%.

I asked our city council about this. I guess the fence went up because it has structural issues (you can see it leaning a bit). They said they aren't allowed to fine the owners any after HB2620 got passed a while ago that doesn't allow cities to fine abandoned properties if they are secure.

So they have a permit open for work. They sure don't look like they are working on it at all. Thing needs to be torn down.

I asked our city council about this. I guess the fence went up because it has structural issues (you can see it leaning a bit). They said they aren't allowed to fine the owners any after HB2620 got passed a while ago that doesn't allow cities to fine abandoned properties if they are secure.

So they have a permit open for work. They sure don't look like they are working on it at all. Thing needs to be torn down.

Precisely. I feel bad for the owner but at this point, you have to make a decision (or be forced to by the City) to either tear down and rebuild or sell to someone else who will. Based on the size and the location, the property value itself will at least offset some of their losses. But we can't just continue to allow a structurally unsound abandoned six story building surrounded by a fence to sit there crumbling for the foreseeable future.

Precisely. I feel bad for the owner but at this point, you have to make a decision (or be forced to by the City) to either tear down and rebuild or sell to someone else who will. Based on the size and the location, the property value itself will at least offset some of their losses. But we can't just continue to allow a structurally unsound abandoned six story building surrounded by a fence to sit there crumbling for the foreseeable future.

From what I am reading here the city is doing all it is legally allowed to do.

This is not a smart aleck question, but do you have direct knowledge of what the city is allowed to do that is not currently being done?

From what I am reading here the city is doing all it is legally allowed to do.

This is not a smart aleck question, but do you have direct knowledge of what the city is allowed to do that is not currently being done?

The City has the authority to start the condemnation procedure!

The City has the authority to start the condemnation procedure!

I read comment #42 to suggest the city does not have that authority because state law has been changed.

Someone who lives in norman should tweet the mayor and ask. She does spend a lot of time on Twitter so maybe we could get a response

From what I am reading here the city is doing all it is legally allowed to do.

This is not a smart aleck question, but do you have direct knowledge of what the city is allowed to do that is not currently being done?

Appreciate that. I do not know exactly the full extent of what they can do from a legal perspective to be totally honest, but I think it is something that they should be focusing more of their efforts on publically in order to pressure the owner to resolve as soon as possible.

Take their Mask Mandate for example. They don't have the authority to actually enforce it, but they have spent a lot of time and effort through social media and other outlets to publicize it and to encourage compliance. I may be mistaken, but I have not seen or heard any public remarks from Mayor Clark or anyone on the Council about this issue. If they have, it certainly hasn't made headlines.

Let me start this post by saying I am not anti mask/anti vax, but I feel the reason that Mayor Clark and the City Counsel are not publicly talking about this is because this isn't as polarizing as a mask mandate or closing down businesses for safety. They can exert their will on 10's of thousands of people, why waste the time on just one building? I am not at all versed on what the city can or can't do legally so I am not really sure what the options are. I do feel that if they thought it was an issue they would be talking about it publicly just to let everyone know that they are aware of the problem and working on a solution.

From the office of Sarah Kaplan, Norman Retail marketing Coordinator.
The “Norman Hotel” is owned by Premier Hospitality (http://www.premierhotels.us/development). They have active building permits for façade repair and interior demo and I believe recently received a Certificate of Completion for foundation repair. My understanding is that they are renovating the structure to become a Delta by Marriott. I have a call into our Permit Services division to see if they have any additional details. I believe when they began renovations, the structure needed significantly more structural work than they original anticipations. I also would have to assume that the absolute crushing reality of the pandemic to the hospitality industry slowed the project down as well. Premier Hospitality also owns the Hilton Garden Inn (700 Copperfield), Holiday Inn Express and the almost complete Residence Inn (both on Conference Drive) in Norman.

Appreciate that. I do not know exactly the full extent of what they can do from a legal perspective to be totally honest, but I think it is something that they should be focusing more of their efforts on publically in order to pressure the owner to resolve as soon as possible.

Take their Mask Mandate for example. They don't have the authority to actually enforce it, but they have spent a lot of time and effort through social media and other outlets to publicize it and to encourage compliance. I may be mistaken, but I have not seen or heard any public remarks from Mayor Clark or anyone on the Council about this issue. If they have, it certainly hasn't made headlines.

The bolded part of your post is false.

The bolded part of your post is false.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

The bolded part of your post is false.


Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

Sorry guys, but you've entered my wheelhouse now. The bolded part is NOT False at all.

If you actually read the Majority Opinion, the 1905 SCOTUS decision you reference (Jacobson v. Massachusetts) was a 10th Amendment (States Rights) and a 14th Amendment (Due Process) case based on enforcing an existing Massachusetts State Statute mandating vaccinations (due to Smallpox at that time) and a particular local government (City of Cambridge) attempting to enforce that law within its boundaries. What it was not based on, was a temporary or indefinite Ordinance or Proclamation passed solely by a Local/Municipal Government or Council without the "Supreme Authority" and/or "Lawful Backing" of the State in which the Municipality is located. The key wording in the decision was this..."States have the authority to enact reasonable legislative regulations to protect public health and safety which the Massachusetts statute sought to achieve."

The State of Oklahoma never passed a compulsatory Mask Mandate Law of any kind at any time during the COVID19 Pandemic that the City of Norman was trying to enforce within its boundaries. The City of Norman is not a State...it lies inside the State of Oklahoma. As a result and absent an Oklahoma State Law as the precursor, Jacobson v. Massachusetts isn't applicable in this case.

Sorry guys, but you've entered my wheelhouse now. The bolded part is NOT False at all.

If you actually read the Majority Opinion, the 1905 SCOTUS decision you reference (Jacobson v. Massachusetts) was a 10th Amendment (States Rights) and a 14th Amendment (Due Process) case based on enforcing an existing Massachusetts State Statute mandating vaccinations (due to Smallpox at that time) and a particular local government (City of Cambridge) attempting to enforce that law within its boundaries. What it was not based on, was a temporary or indefinite Ordinance or Proclamation passed solely by a Local/Municipal Government or Council without the "Supreme Authority" and/or "Lawful Backing" of the State in which the Municipality is located. The key wording in the decision was this..."States have the authority to enact reasonable legislative regulations to protect public health and safety which the Massachusetts statute sought to achieve."

The State of Oklahoma never passed a compulsatory Mask Mandate Law of any kind at any time during the COVID19 Pandemic that the City of Norman was trying to enforce within its boundaries. The City of Norman is not a State...it lies inside the State of Oklahoma. As a result and absent an Oklahoma State Law as the precursor, Jacobson v. Massachusetts isn't applicable in this case.

but they didn't need to... even in the case of Jacobson V Massachusetts... they state of Massachusetts did not pass law that required vaccinations... it passed a law that stated
Revised Laws of the Commonwealth, c. 75, § 137

the board of health of a city or town if, in its opinion, it is necessary for the public health or safety shall require and enforce the vaccination and revaccination of all the inhabitants thereof and shall provide them with the means of free vaccination. Whoever, being over twenty-one years of age and not under guardianship, refuses or neglects to comply with such requirement shall forfeit five dollars

and then it was the City of Cambridge that passed an ordnance requiring said vaccinations based upon it's opinion. that was the ruling of the court. if a State in it's 10th amendment reserved powers, mandated, or gave the ability to mandate.

now lets look at Mask Mandates.

in March 2020, the Oklahoma Legislature granted Gov. Kevin Stitt emergency powers to set Covid policy for the State. then, with this power granted him (and affirmed as a power that they had to be able to give him via Jacobson V Massachusetts, like you agreed with above), he then established a policy that while no State wide mandate would be issued, individual Cities could enact such mandates if, in those cities opinions, they deemed it necessary. So except for the part of giving a Governor Emergency powers to set the policy. The Supreme Court affirmed that the State has the ability to set that policy legislatively, in this case the legislature passed off through an also upheld legal precedent to our Governor, who then established a policy that allowed cities to enact these mandates. And since that policy was in place, much like the statue was in place in Massachusetts, that allowed for a city to enact it, per Jacobson v Massachusetts Majority Opinion, the City does have a right to then follow said policy and enact it at a municipal level.

So yes, Jacobson V. Massachusetts in this case does show the Supreme Court stating that Cities in Oklahoma could enact and Enforce Mask Mandates.

Work looks like it has been ongoing recently. They have scaffolding up around the southern side of the building. Interior lights have been on for a while also.

I don't understand why the City of Norman continues to let this eyesore set with no or minimal work. I drive by this hotel 5--6 times a week and almost never see anyone there working.

I don't understand why the City of Norman continues to let this eyesore set with no or minimal work. I drive by this hotel 5--6 times a week and almost never see anyone there working.

what would you like them to do?

what would you like them to do?

Reopen or repurpose it? Secure it? Close it up so tarps and wires aren't flapping in the wind? Take it down completely? The longer it sits there the more of a toll nature will take on getting it back in operation.

Once OU joins the SEC, far more fans will travel to OK to watch games so, at least on football weekends, any decent Norman hotel will sell out.

Reopen or repurpose it? Secure it? Close it up so tarps and wires aren't flapping in the wind? Take it down completely? The longer it sits there the more of a toll nature will take on getting it back in operation.

Once OU joins the SEC, far more fans will travel to OK to watch games so, at least on football weekends, any decent Norman hotel will sell out.

They sell out games now. They aren't adding more seats, so I doubt that many people will be coming. They don't need to make this a Baymont Inn. They need to make this a top-notch flag. So until that happens, I think it is ok.

They have been getting bid estimates on this place for several months now compiling a budget for an insurance claim. Likely wont see any movement on this until that is all finalized. Could be a long process.