Just got our highest gas bill in 3+ YEARS, OUCH. $102.75 for 12.9DTH.
Only 1.8DTH more use than last month, but $17 more in cost.
How did everybody else do last month?

0... I don't have gas at the house, well NG anyway.

Just went and looked. slightly higher than the prior month bill. Looking at same period for three years, not a whole lot of difference at all on our end.

0... I don't have gas at the house, well NG anyway.

Back in the day when you could pump gas before paying, a friend of mine got gas at the convenience store, went inside to pay, purchased something else, turned around to leave, and then remembered not paying for the gas. She stopped at the door, turned around and announced to the clerk, "Oh, I have gas." Clerk: "I'm sorry."
awkward silence followed by laughter.

6671

Gotta love that Service Charge (at least ONG does), you pay it if you use Zero dekatherms or 10 dekatherms, TY Corp Comm ..

Gotta love that Service Charge (at least ONG does), you pay it if you use Zero dekatherms or 10 dekatherms, TY Corp Comm ..

Why I'm done with ONG. If I can heat & cool my total electric 2200 SF home for $113.11/mo avg they can go suck on a gas pipe.

Why I'm done with ONG. If I can heat & cool my total electric 2200 SF home for $113.11/mo avg they can go suck on a gas pipe.

You must have a newer well insulated home with a heat pump.

Gotta love that Service Charge (at least ONG does), you pay it if you use Zero dekatherms or 10 dekatherms, TY Corp Comm ..

6674

Servicetech,
i used 8.996 dekatherms and paid $81.03 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $7.11 per dekatherm and last year I paid $9.004 per dekatherm. That sounds pretty good to me. Where did I go wrong? It looks like my price has gone down since last year.
C. T.

Servicetech,
i used 8.996 dekatherms and paid $81.03 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $7.11 per dekatherm and last year I paid $9.004 per dekatherm. That sounds pretty good to me. Where did I go wrong? It looks like my price has gone down since last year.
C. T.

Are you dividing the entire bill by DTH used? Keep in mind the monthly service fee is the same regardless of use so you will see an effective lower cost per DTH with higher use.

Service - I hate to say it like this, but after years of ONG running their rebate programs to know more about peoples HVAC systems(the reduced price inspections), drive demand up(through appliance rebates), and increase reliance(through change overs from electric to gas appliances); what did you really expect to happen?

They are there to make as much money as they can.

As a side note many years ago I used to work in Management at the York Plant (now JCI) off I-35 and in the engineering department we had a lab to test new equipment. There was a natural gas feed and special equipment to increase or decrease the btu rating of fuel to ensure that the units would properly function all over the country and world. Most people dont know this but natural gas has different energy properties depending when and where you bought it. After talking to one of the technicians and asking what test he performs he informed me that each year ONG dilutes the btu ratings around october - march so we get less power out of our fuel and forced to use more during the cold season. If anyone was qualified to say that he certainly was that person and had the engineering test equipment to do it.

Servicetech,
First, I was off a month and second, I didn't subtract the service fee, so the correct information is:
"I used 14.42 dekatherms and paid $81.60 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $5.13 per dekatherm and last year I paid $5.65 per dekatherm.".
Are you dividing the entire bill by DTH used? Keep in mind the monthly service fee is the same regardless of use so you will see an effective lower cost per DTH with higher use.

$183 for me. ONG is doing okay. Oh, I'm sorry. ONG isn't "allowed" to make money on the gas. That line gets so old from their PR department.
So, let me phrase it correctly, ONEOK is REALLY raking it in!

Ylouder,
I would be interested in verifiable sources to confirm your statement. You are aware that we have a corporation commission that controls rates and is a quasi oversight group? I'm not naive, at my age I'd better not be but I have serious doubts that they could do this without anyone's knowledge. I'm sure they would like to, but I believe it's illegal.
C. T.
Service - I hate to say it like this, but after years of ONG running their rebate programs to know more about peoples HVAC systems(the reduced price inspections), drive demand up(through appliance rebates), and increase reliance(through change overs from electric to gas appliances); what did you really expect to happen?

They are there to make as much money as they can.

As a side note many years ago I used to work in Management at the York Plant (now JCI) off I-35 and in the engineering department we had a lab to test new equipment. There was a natural gas feed and special equipment to increase or decrease the btu rating of fuel to ensure that the units would properly function all over the country and world. Most people dont know this but natural gas has different energy properties depending when and where you bought it. After talking to one of the technicians and asking what test he performs he informed me that each year ONG dilutes the btu ratings around october - march so we get less power out of our fuel and forced to use more during the cold season. If anyone was qualified to say that he certainly was that person and had the engineering test equipment to do it.

Ylouder,
I would be interested in verifiable sources to confirm your statement. You are aware that we have a corporation commission that controls rates and is a quasi oversight group? I'm not naive, at my age I'd better not be but I have serious doubts that they could do this without anyone's knowledge. I'm sure they would like to, but I believe it's illegal.
C. T.

C.T. - Illegal? Yes. Still possible? Absolutely. The Corporation Commission is bought and paid for by these very energy companies they regulate!
Again, look at Cliff Branan who is running to replace Patrice Douglas (who is running for Congress). He is running a blatantly pro-energy company platform and - some would think this was a joke from The Onion or something, but it's true -- Larry Nichols and Harold Hamm are Co-Chairs of his campaign! How corrupt and bought can you possibly be? The regulatees buying their regulators right in the face of the public they screw. But like good "conservatives" Oklahoma will go duly elect the "free market" Branan. Comical if it didn't really hurt a lot of people.

Zookeeper,
Isn't everything the corporation commission does part of open records under the Freedom of Information Act (or something like that)? I still want to hear from Ylouder about a source. And I didn't intend for this to become a political thing. It seems we have several threads for that.
C. T.
C.T. - Illegal? Yes. Still possible? Absolutely. The Corporation Commission is bought and paid for by these very energy companies they regulate!
Again, look at Cliff Branan who is running to replace Patrice Douglas (who is running for Congress). He is running a blatantly pro-energy company platform and - some would think this was a joke from The Onion or something, but it's true -- Larry Nichols and Harold Hamm are Co-Chairs of his campaign! How corrupt and bought can you possibly be? The regulatees buying their regulators right in the face of the public they screw. But like good "conservatives" Oklahoma will go duly elect the "free market" Branan. Comical if it didn't really hurt a lot of people.

Zookeeper,
Isn't everything the corporation commission does part of open records under the Freedom of Information Act (or something like that)? I still want to hear from Ylouder about a source. And I didn't intend for this to become a political thing. It seems we have several threads for that.
C. T.

My apologies. It's very hard to discuss ONG and the Corporation Commission without politics getting involved. And yes, we had the same FOIA and laws when JC Watts was taking bags full of money from the old Southwestern Bell. Today - he's still a hero to some.

Back to rates from ONG (without politics?)

Zookeeper,
I'm pretty good at getting "off topic" myself, no apology was necessary but accepted.
C. T.
My apologies. It's very hard to discuss ONG and the Corporation Commission without politics getting involved. And yes, we had the same FOIA and laws when JC Watts was taking bags full of money from the old Southwestern Bell. Today - he's still a hero to some.

Back to rates from ONG (without politics?)

CT

As I mentioned I worked for York (now Johnson Controls) about 8 years ago and was a great place to work. I mentioned they have an entire testing and engineering department (they have sound chambers, environmental (rain/heat/wind) testing chamber, and regular testing chambers) that test different units to ensure they work in different environmental areas and with regional natural gas (along with propane, etc). Long story short they have to be tested to make sure that the btu's coming out of the pipe in Wyoming wont set the HVAC unit on fire but will still meet the energy ratings on Washington dc natural gas. (hypothetical citys)

At the time I noticed a pilot light that was lit and had some instruments in the flame and asked what it was, the tech said that they constantly measure the quality of the natural gas entering in the building to make sure the test are properly documented. Thats when he mentioned the quality of the gas decreasing like clock work during colder months.

As a late 20 something the older gentleman had no reason to blow smoke or impress me. If I had to guess its not a monumental decrease, but over the span of an entire city and region im sure they pocket some pretty good pocket change by small decreases.

Edit - to correct small information and typos from tablet. From the sounds of it you guys are fairly familiar with btu's. The easiest way to see a btu in action is boil a pot of water over a propane camp stove vs on your home stove. Or convert your gas grill from propane to natural gas (you'll get a fraction of the heat with nat. gas), the differences in the btu in the two gases are pretty amazing when the flame can be the same size but one is much hotter.

Ylouder,
So, how do you/I verify this since it is apparently just somebody telling you and you accepting it as fact? I can say that my price per dekatherm for July was $7.812 and for January it is/was $5.13 so I'm not sure why the winter rates are cheaper. The problem is, my rates don't have anything to do with changing the quality of the natural gas. I really would be interested in something concrete. I will attempt to find out something when I get a chance.
C. T.
CT

As I mentioned I worked for York (now Johnson Controls) about 8 years ago and was a great place to work. I mentioned they have an entire testing and engineering department (they have sound chambers, environmental (rain/heat/wind) testing chamber, and regular testing chambers) that test different units to ensure they work in different environmental areas and with regional natural gas (along with propane, etc). Long story short they have to be tested to make sure that the btu's coming out of the pipe in Wyoming wont set the HVAC unit on fire but will still meet the energy ratings on Washington dc natural gas. (hypothetical citys)

At the time I noticed a pilot light that was lit and had some instruments in the flame and asked what it was, the tech said that they measure they constantly measure the quality of the natural gas entering in the building to make sure the test are properly documented. Thats when he mentioned the quality of the gas decreasing like clock work during colder months.

As a late 20 something the older gentleman had no reason to blow smoke or impress me. If I had to guess its not a monumental decrease, but over the span of an entire city and region im sure they pocket some pretty good pocket change by small decreases.

Edit - to correct small information.

No matter what the truth here is, the price of gas to heat your home and cook your food is probably positive in terms of the cost/value metric as compared to going forth to scavenge twigs and scraps of wood to do the same thing. Especially in terms of the expenditure of energy. Isn't it?

I’ll be brief; I’ve had a few beers and going to have dinner here at 730 so please forgive my typing.

Long story short it would be hard to validate on your own without the equipment. As we all know the Corp. Commission is a shell and works on behalf of the industry and I’m sure they would feed you a line that the composition of the gas falls into industry standards and is a publically traded good that they purchase in bulk from the pipeline. I’m sure they’ve had citizens call them on this before and they have a long list of prerecorded answers to feed the public to get them off their backs.

I do want to say im not an engineer BUT Im sure if you really wanted to you could run some home test during the winter and summer if you had your house heated or cooled to a set temp, and if the barometric pressure and humidity were the exact same to see how long it took you to boil a liter of water and compared the two times. Outside of fancy equipment I don’t know any way that an ordinary person could do it without maybe ordering some test equipment off ebay?

I’m really sorry I cant be more help than that, that was what feels like a lifetime ago and an industry change (aviation now) ago. Good luck, I was surprised at the time when I was told that and still take it as gospel because the lab technician obviously knew his stuff and was qualified for his job.

That’s my two cents – feel free to take it or leave it and you guys have a good night.

From my own bills:

January: 12.317 Dth, $4.579/Dth, total $92.24.

February: 11.500 Dth, $5.199/Dth, total $94.74.

February bill covered one fewer day of service; BTU factor was insignificantly higher.

I'm assuming none of this has to do with ONG's being spun off into ONE Gas.

. . . As we all know the Corp. Commission is a shell and works on behalf of the industry . . .
That’s my two cents – feel free to take it or leave it and you guys have a good night.

The only flaw in your "argument" is that not all of us [that is "we all" a.k.a. "us'ins"] know that yet.
Prob'ly has sumpin' t' do with why we keep electin' 'em(?)
Well . . . don't it?

@ Service Tech ..Ty ... I stand corrected :eek:...and I see Zookeeper and I feel the same about the CC ..;)

I pay between $50 and $55 per month (ONG averaged monthly billing) to have hot water, keep my home as toasty warm as I want when it gets cold outside and dry our clothes after they are washed. And all I have to do is turn a faucet or touch a button on my thermostat or turn a knob on the dryer. Seems like a pretty small cost to pay for such convenience. If anyone wants to think that small amount I pay every month is me getting screwed by another evil energy company, then go right ahead. It sure seems like a small amount to pay for such convenience and I'll gladly pay them for delivering the energy to my house uninterrupted so I can enjoy such convenience.

Servicetech,
First, I was off a month and second, I didn't subtract the service fee, so the correct information is:
"I used 14.42 dekatherms and paid $81.60 last year and 14.490 dekatherms for $103 this year. This year I paid $5.13 per dekatherm and last year I paid $5.65 per dekatherm.".

14.49DTU x $5.13 = $74.34?
Odd they charged me $5.199/DTU on my Feb bill. Does it depend on what day your billing cycle ends?

Servicetech,
Not sure what your ? is meant for, it seems to calculate to me. As for billing dates, mine are December 16th to January 20th. And as for your question about billing cycle, I don't have a clue.
C. T.
p.s. I'm better looking than you, maybe that's the difference.
14.49DTU x $5.13 = $74.34?
Odd they charged me $5.199/DTU on my Feb bill. Does it depend on what day your billing cycle ends?

Servicetech,
Not sure what your ? is meant for, it seems to calculate to me. As for billing dates, mine are December 16th to January 20th. And as for your question about billing cycle, I don't have a clue.
C. T.
p.s. I'm better looking than you, maybe that's the difference.

You stated you used 14.49DTU and paid $5.13 per DTU and had a $103 gas bill. 14.49DTU x $5.13 = $74.34.
The 16th/20th is what I meant by billign cycle. It's the date the meter is read.

Servicetech,
Oops, that was the bill without deducting the service charge, the $74.34 is correct. The service charge is 28.76, so $103.10 - $28.76 = $74.34. I tried to cut and paste my complete bill but it wasn't very friendly so when I was bouncing back and forth between sites, I got my numbers mixed up. By the way, I left you an opening (better looking) and you left it alone, are you just being kind to an old guy?
C. T.
You stated you used 14.49DTU and paid $5.13 per DTU and had a $103 gas bill. 14.49DTU x $5.13 = $74.34.
The 16th/20th is what I meant by billign cycle. It's the date the meter is read.

Servicetech,
Oops, that was the bill without deducting the service charge, the $74.34 is correct. The service charge is 28.76, so $103.10 - $28.76 = $74.34. I tried to cut and paste my complete bill but it wasn't very friendly so when I was bouncing back and forth between sites, I got my numbers mixed up. By the way, I left you an opening (better looking) and you left it alone, are you just being kind to an old guy?
C. T.

Looks are subjective, I'll leave the judging to the ladies...

Those with bills under $100 this month is that an averaged bill or actual use?

I do average, but the bill shows the actual use and the charges if I weren't averaging.
C. T.
Those with bills under $100 this month is that an averaged bill or actual use?

Those with bills under $100 this month is that an averaged bill or actual use?

In my case, that was actual use.

In my case, that was actual use.

How did you do it? House size/age/thermostat setting/number people in house?
Tricks for keep your bill so low?

In my case, that was actual use.

Windowphobe, I'm with Serviceeech571, how do you do it? Mine was incredibly high and was surprised actually because we're well-insulated and good to go. I thought. In the summer, we have low electric bills, that seems to be a good indicator of weatherproofing, but maybe not. You might be able to give some great advice with your ability to keep your bill that low during that horrible cold spell. I'm all ears, that's for sure!

zookeeper what do you set your thermostat at? If you prefer warmer temps that would explain low summer electric bills with high winter gas bills.
Do you turn down the temp when you go to work or leave the heat running all day when nobody is home?

2200 sq ft, built in 1983, 2 Adults, 1 dog, 5 year old Ruud 100000 btu central furnace, T-stat on 68 when up, sometimes 69, but not often, 66 when sleeping. During the real cold nights of say below 20 degrees we would keep the T-stat on 67 for sleeping. Gas heat, 40 gal Bradford White hot water heater, 17 year old Whirlpool gas dryer. We don't do anything intentional to conserve gas. Like our electricity usage, we use what we need to live at the comfort level we choose. I never even look at what the actual bill would have been. This month it was $55 averaged. I think we are on plan B. Looking at my records for the last 3 years, my lowest bill has been $46 and my highest bill has been $60 with 95% of my bills between $50 and $55.

2200 sq ft, built in 1983, 2 Adults, 1 dog, 5 year old Ruud 100000 btu central furnace, T-stat on 68 when up, sometimes 69, but not often, 66 when sleeping. During the real cold nights of say below 20 degrees we would keep the T-stat on 67 for sleeping. Gas heat, 40 gal Bradford White hot water heater, 17 year old Whirlpool gas dryer. We don't do anything intentional to conserve gas. Like our electricity usage, we use what we need to live at the comfort level we choose. I never even look at what the actual bill would have been. This month it was $55 averaged. I think we are on plan B. Looking at my records for the last 3 years, my lowest bill has been $46 and my highest bill has been $60 with 95% of my bills between $50 and $55.

At a $55/mo average it's worthwhile to log in to ONG an check you plan. 50DTU per year is the "break point" and you look really close to that. Expect a bump in your $55 bill once use reflects the cold weather we have been getting.

Like I said in the last 3 years it has never been above $60. I don't know how people can run a monthly budget without averaging. Looking at my records once in 08 and once in 09 I got credits one month each year I think they said it was because had I been on the other plan I would have saved money. Those 2 months my bill was only around $10 after the credits were applied. BTW we are running our A/C right now and have been for the last couple of days to keep the house at 69.

Like I said in the last 3 years it has never been above $60. I don't know how people can run a monthly budget without averaging. Looking at my records once in 08 and once in 09 I got credits one month each year I think they said it was because had I been on the other plan I would have saved money. Those 2 months my bill was only around $10 after the credits were applied. BTW we are running our A/C right now and have been for the last couple of days to keep the house at 69.

Looks to me like internal heat gain from high electric use is heating your house instead of the furance.

For those who asked: 66-year-old house, 1060 square feet, usually a single occupant, thermostat typically at 72. Positively ancient furnace (checked over last October, found to be fully functional but positively ancient). Newish water heater, which uses about half the gas of its predecessor (1985-2007). Electric range and dryer, though, which surely make a difference.

We havent gotten our bill for this month, but ball park prob 110-130.(110 last month), new construction(gas heat, stove and water heater(warming up well water)) and 2500 sqft. 68 over night,69 in morning (5-8a), 60 during day while no one home, 69 starting at 430-9pm. The only proactive thing we do now is i disabled the programmable thermostat to 'preheat' the house because i hate it running before i want it too and use a warm water vaporizer to add moisture to the air so it feels warmer and helps with sinuses. I also set our programmable thermostat to longer run times so it doesnt cycle as much and water heater on low which is still plenty hot for us.

Slightly off topic - We used to be able to get insanely low gas bills during winters before we had kids. I had a pretty decent setup back in my bachelor days using programmable thermostat and electric blankets. Granted I wasnt home that much but kept my house in 50's during the day, after work would go to gym, and have it set to come on right as i was getting home to 66 degrees (seemed much warmer after a workout), by the time i ate, showered, and got into my bed it would be lowering to 60 over night and set to come back up to 66 as i was getting up to go to work then back off for the entire day. I would maybe have 40-50 a month non averaging.

For those who asked: 66-year-old house, 1060 square feet, usually a single occupant, thermostat typically at 72. Positively ancient furnace (checked over last October, found to be fully functional but positively ancient). Newish water heater, which uses about half the gas of its predecessor (1985-2007). Electric range and dryer, though, which surely make a difference.

Do you turn the heat down when you go to work?

Do you turn the heat down when you go to work?

A couple of degrees at most, when I remember to do so, which is not that often.

My monthly bill was just under $100 last month (my average is $30). My house is 85 years old and poorly insulated with original windows. 1500 square feet with tall ceilings. HOWEVER, I'm a fan of multiple layers and blankets, so I keep it at 65 when I am here, and 63 when I'm not here.

This is my first winter without a heat pump and I am pretty pleased.

6791
For those of you who keep track of usage, how many DTH are you using this year compared to last year?

Way up this year, but then this has been a much colder winter. (January '13 was a little warmer than average, February '13 slightly below; January '14 was below average, and February, through the billing period anyway, was on pace for third or fourth coldest month ever.) On a per-day basis, since the billing period was different: 0.286 in '13, 0.371 in '14.

Uploading the attachments seems to shrink the image to where you can't read it. How do you post full size images? I've seen it done before on this forum.
6797