Not long ago the US had an abundant supply of natural gas and thus the price fell. I'm wondering, however, the massive amount of cold which has gripped the Northeast and Midwest over the past several weeks and the usage of natural gas for heat will have any impact on our natural gas supplies and thus create more opportunity for Oklahoma for future drilling.

Anyone have some insight regarding this?

A good friend of mine lives in St Germain WI, which is practically Canada (I joke with her all the time) and she said yesterday propane prices reached $5 a gallon yesterday. They have such a shortage they won't sell more than 200 gallons to people.

I guess the drillers (like Chesapeake) who wanted product cut back are getting what they want. The excess stock is getting cleared out, prices will go up, and they'll be able to maintain the higher levels.

Zuplar,
Wow, the last time I bought propane it was 75 cents. Of course that was in the mid to late 90's. We were lucky, ONG needed to run lines through our neighborhood to the high rent district so they offered us service. Cost me about two grand to run it 300 feet to the house and convert everything but obviously, it was well worth it.
C. T.
A good friend of mine lives in St Germain WI, which is practically Canada (I joke with her all the time) and she said yesterday propane prices reached $5 a gallon yesterday. They have such a shortage they won't sell more than 200 gallons to people.

Actually...

Natural gas price spikes, topping $5 for 1st time since 2010 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101362341)

So I called yesterday to check, $3.40 at my provider, last time I paid $1.65. Others I've heard around here are $5.35. That's ridiculous. Even at $3.40 I can't afford to heat my house. That's double the price. Luckily I have a large tank, so I bought ahead of time, but still no matter what I'm going to have to buy in about a month. I just hope that this crap has leveled out, because there is no reason for it to double and in some accounts triple. It's straight up price gouging. Makes me want to convert to a heat pump.

Market pricing is not simply a matter of national abundance but also a matter of the distribution channels. Nationally, there is plenty of supply but with such a cold snap across the most populous regions of the country, the channel is strained and prices are rising. Once warmer weather comes, the prices will drop back.

So I called yesterday to check, $3.40 at my provider, last time I paid $1.65. Others I've heard around here are $5.35. That's ridiculous. Even at $3.40 I can't afford to heat my house. That's double the price. Luckily I have a large tank, so I bought ahead of time, but still no matter what I'm going to have to buy in about a month. I just hope that this crap has leveled out, because there is no reason for it to double and in some accounts triple. It's straight up price gouging. Makes me want to convert to a heat pump.

Have you considered a Dual Fuel setup? You could switch bewteen heat pump and propane based on the price of each fuel and outdoor tempature. Use the the heat pump in moderate weather then switch to propane when it isn't cost effective to run the heat pump. Most newer Dual Fuel thermostats can handle the switchover automatically based on the tempature you select.

Imagine much of Zuplars' energy choice will be dependent on the age of his current system. If it's getting close to replacement time I'd advise installing a 15 or higher SEER heat pump and upgrading to a heat pump water heater. (mine costs less to operate than a NG WH) Also add insulation to the attic. Using those choices plus low E windows it's easily possible to heat & cool a 2200 sf home for > $125/mo. (that's been our average over the 30 months we've lived here)

Have you considered a Dual Fuel setup? You could switch bewteen heat pump and propane based on the price of each fuel and outdoor tempature. Use the the heat pump in moderate weather then switch to propane when it isn't cost effective to run the heat pump. Most newer Dual Fuel thermostats can handle the switchover automatically based on the tempature you select.

I've actually thought about this. Everyone where I live is total electric other than me. I'm not big on propane, cause honestly I don't want to keep up with remembering to fill the tank. Luckily I have a 1000 gallon tank so really I only have to fill it up a couple of times. Of course with prices the way they are I'm holding out as long as possible and probably going to buy the minimum unless prices go down.

My house is 7 years old. I would be very interested in switching to a duel fuel setup with heat pump and propane backup. I don't want to get rid of the propane all together as I have it for water heater and cooking. I feel like the the duel fuel is really the best of both worlds cause like you said you get to pick based on temps and prices. I'm just not sure the cost. Anyone have an idea? I feel like I'd basically only have to swap the outside unit. Obviously there is a bit more work but I feel like it would be pretty easy.

Imagine much of Zuplars' energy choice will be dependent on the age of his current system. If it's getting close to replacement time I'd advise installing a 15 or higher SEER heat pump and upgrading to a heat pump water heater. (mine costs less to operate than a NG WH) Also add insulation to the attic. Using those choices plus low E windows it's easily possible to heat & cool a 2200 sf home for > $125/mo. (that's been our average over the 30 months we've lived here)

My house is 7 years old so I have a lot of upgrades. I do need to add some insulation, but with current propane prices it's costing $400 just in propane, and that's a 2100 square foot house. I know my neighbors with electric only it's costing them about $250 to $300. I'm not wanting to swap all my stuff over and I'd really like to keep the propane for some things. That's not to say when the time comes to replace the water heater I wouldn't be interested in changing it, but we enjoy being able to cook on gas. And realistically for the 6 months I don't heat, we use about 50 gallons of propane to heat water and cook. Since I'm not paying a monthly gas bill that makes that extremely cheap.

Imagine much of Zuplars' energy choice will be dependent on the age of his current system. If it's getting close to replacement time I'd advise installing a 15 or higher SEER heat pump and upgrading to a heat pump water heater. (mine costs less to operate than a NG WH) Also add insulation to the attic. Using those choices plus low E windows it's easily possible to heat & cool a 2200 sf home for > $125/mo. (that's been our average over the 30 months we've lived here)

I'd like to see the numbers on this. I couldn't get the math to work, NG was too cheap when I ran my calculations.
Is your home all electric?
If not, are you on Plan A or Plan B for NG?
What are your annual NG/Electric costs?
If you are an OG+E customer you can check annual electric use at www.myogepower.com and click the "how can I save" tab.

My house is 7 years old so I have a lot of upgrades. I do need to add some insulation, but with current propane prices it's costing $400 just in propane, and that's a 2100 square foot house. I know my neighbors with electric only it's costing them about $250 to $300. I'm not wanting to swap all my stuff over and I'd really like to keep the propane for some things. That's not to say when the time comes to replace the water heater I wouldn't be interested in changing it, but we enjoy being able to cook on gas. And realistically for the 6 months I don't heat, we use about 50 gallons of propane to heat water and cook. Since I'm not paying a monthly gas bill that makes that extremely cheap.

Are you paying $400 per MONTH or fill-up?

I've actually thought about this. Everyone where I live is total electric other than me. I'm not big on propane, cause honestly I don't want to keep up with remembering to fill the tank. Luckily I have a 1000 gallon tank so really I only have to fill it up a couple of times. Of course with prices the way they are I'm holding out as long as possible and probably going to buy the minimum unless prices go down.

My house is 7 years old. I would be very interested in switching to a duel fuel setup with heat pump and propane backup. I don't want to get rid of the propane all together as I have it for water heater and cooking. I feel like the the duel fuel is really the best of both worlds cause like you said you get to pick based on temps and prices. I'm just not sure the cost. Anyone have an idea? I feel like I'd basically only have to swap the outside unit. Obviously there is a bit more work but I feel like it would be pretty easy.

You would have to replace the Outdoor Unit and the A-coil for optimum efficiency. Also you would need a thermostat that can run a DF system or a add a HP kit. The free OG+E thermostats (http://oge.com/residential-customers/products-and-services/Documents/SmartTemp%20P2%20Manual.pdf) are DF compatible, but you have to sign up for Smarthours (http://www.ogepet.com/programs/smarthours.aspx) to get one. An outdoor temp sensor will need to be added for the thermostat to see the outdoor temp to determine switchover. Ecobee, Emerson, and Honeywell also offer DF compatible thermostats for about $200 or so.

Installed cost is probably going to be $3k - $4k for outdoor unit and indoor coil depending on size and how difficult the install is.

NG Water Heater = $282/yr
GE 50 gal. Tall 6 Year 38,000 BTU Natural Gas Water Heater-GG50T06AVH00 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-50-gal-Tall-6-Year-38-000-BTU-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-GG50T06AVH00/100178197?N=5yc1vZc1tzZ1z0ubbt#specifications)


Hybrid Water Heater = $215 yr (mine is a GE and actually the enregy lable says $198/yr)
Rheem EcoSense 50 gal. Tall 12 Year Hybrid Electric Water Heater with Heat Pump Technology-HB50ES at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-EcoSense-50-gal-Tall-12-Year-Hybrid-Electric-Water-Heater-with-Heat-Pump-Technology-HB50ES/204077079?N=5yc1vZc4r1#specifications)

Yes we're all electric tho the fireplace can run off an 80 gallon propane tank in case of emergencies.

I totaled the electric bills from move in date in Sept 2011 through Dec 2013 and the avg came to $124/mo.
and that was skewed a little bit b/c we only had R30 attic insulation until Jan 2012. We upped it to R50 after the Dec bill.


I'd like to see the numbers on this. I couldn't get the math to work, NG was too cheap when I ran my calculations.
Is your home all electric?
If not, are you on Plan A or Plan B for NG?
What are your annual NG/Electric costs?
If you are an OG+E customer you can check annual electric use at www.myogepower.com and click the "how can I save" tab.

Are you paying $400 per MONTH or fill-up?

That would be per month, but again that's with propane prices being $1.75ish. If I have to pay the $3.40 it will be over $700 a month, just for propane. That doesn't include my electric bill.


You would have to replace the Outdoor Unit and the A-coil for optimum efficiency. Also you would need a thermostat that can run a DF system or a add a HP kit. The free OG+E thermostats (http://oge.com/residential-customers/products-and-services/Documents/SmartTemp%20P2%20Manual.pdf) are DF compatible, but you have to sign up for Smarthours (http://www.ogepet.com/programs/smarthours.aspx) to get one. An outdoor temp sensor will need to be added for the thermostat to see the outdoor temp to determine switchover. Ecobee, Emerson, and Honeywell also offer DF compatible thermostats for about $200 or so.

Installed cost is probably going to be $3k - $4k for outdoor unit and indoor coil depending on size and how difficult the install is.

I do have OGE and I have smart hours and their free thermostat. I was really hoping it would be under $2k. I think it would take awhile to recoup the money. Of course if propane prices don't go below $2, then I may not have a choice.

NG Water Heater = $282/yr
GE 50 gal. Tall 6 Year 38,000 BTU Natural Gas Water Heater-GG50T06AVH00 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-50-gal-Tall-6-Year-38-000-BTU-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-GG50T06AVH00/100178197?N=5yc1vZc1tzZ1z0ubbt#specifications)


Hybrid Water Heater = $215 yr (mine is a GE and actually the enregy lable says $198/yr)
Rheem EcoSense 50 gal. Tall 12 Year Hybrid Electric Water Heater with Heat Pump Technology-HB50ES at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-EcoSense-50-gal-Tall-12-Year-Hybrid-Electric-Water-Heater-with-Heat-Pump-Technology-HB50ES/204077079?N=5yc1vZc4r1#specifications)

Yes we're all electric tho the fireplace can run off an 80 gallon propane tank in case of emergencies.

I totaled the electric bills from move in date in Sept 2011 through Dec 2013 and the avg came to $124/mo.
and that was skewed a little bit b/c we only had R30 attic insulation until Jan 2012. We upped it to R50 after the Dec bill.

If you don't mind me asking what did it cost to get the attic re insulated? I'm thinking that might really help me out.

NG Water Heater = $282/yr
GE 50 gal. Tall 6 Year 38,000 BTU Natural Gas Water Heater-GG50T06AVH00 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-50-gal-Tall-6-Year-38-000-BTU-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-GG50T06AVH00/100178197?N=5yc1vZc1tzZ1z0ubbt#specifications)


Hybrid Water Heater = $215 yr (mine is a GE and actually the enregy lable says $198/yr)
Rheem EcoSense 50 gal. Tall 12 Year Hybrid Electric Water Heater with Heat Pump Technology-HB50ES at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-EcoSense-50-gal-Tall-12-Year-Hybrid-Electric-Water-Heater-with-Heat-Pump-Technology-HB50ES/204077079?N=5yc1vZc4r1#specifications)

Yes we're all electric tho the fireplace can run off an 80 gallon propane tank in case of emergencies.

I totaled the electric bills from move in date in Sept 2011 through Dec 2013 and the avg came to $124/mo.
and that was skewed a little bit b/c we only had R30 attic insulation until Jan 2012. We upped it to R50 after the Dec bill.

Makes sense, you were using national average gas rates, not actual ONG/OG+E rates.

NG is about 50 cents per therm (100,000BTU) with ONG. Based on a energy factor of 2.45 the Heat pump water heater uses 12KWH of electricity to produce the same 100,000BTU of heat. OG+E charges about 10 cents per KWH, so the same 100k btu would be $1.20. For those on ONG, the heat pump water heater doesn't make economic sense.

All electric homes or homes with propane is a different story.

That would be per month, but again that's with propane prices being $1.75ish. If I have to pay the $3.40 it will be over $700 a month, just for propane. That doesn't include my electric bill.



I do have OGE and I have smart hours and their free thermostat. I was really hoping it would be under $2k. I think it would take awhile to recoup the money. Of course if propane prices don't go below $2, then I may not have a choice.

$400-$700/mo is nuts for a 2100sqft house built in 2007.
How many gallons per month do you average? 2 story or single story?
What do you keep your thermostat set at? A
re your cooling bills high (over $150/mo) also?
A 2007 house should have plenty of insulation, shouldn't need more. You may have a ductwork issue, especially if cooling bills are high.

There is a gigantic supply's of NG in the ground but when you have an EPA and other government agency under the current administration that slow play, delay or other wise obstruct the construction of new pipelines and other needed NG infrastructure, including propane processing facility's.... it helps drive up consumer cost. The result is that people bitch at the highly regulated natural distribution company’s when all they understand is their monthly bill just when up.

For several years informed people have talked about how government interference would cost folks more money.... Warmer weather will lower prices, some, but many feel the days of historic low NG prices (and their by-products) that many consumers have enjoyed are over.

$400-$700/mo is nuts for a 2100sqft house built in 2007.
How many gallons per month do you average? 2 story or single story?
What do you keep your thermostat set at? A
re your cooling bills high (over $150/mo) also?
A 2007 house should have plenty of insulation, shouldn't need more. You may have a ductwork issue, especially if cooling bills are high.

During the summer my highest electric bill is $180. It's closer to the $130 mark on average though. Single story house. I haven' looked at it from a month to month, but I can give some averages for different times of the year. From September to November I averaged 1.75 gallons a day. So realistically those months if I'm paying the $1.75 it's costing me about $90 a month. Now for December and January I'm averaging 5.7 gallons a day so for December again using the $1.65 that I currently have would put it around $292. So I guess a bit cheaper than I alluded to, but still you replace that $1.65 with the current $3.40 and for the past 2 months that's $600.

To me my insulation has a few low spots that could use some improvement. In some places I can see the beams, so I think that should be covered because that would only be about 6 inches of cover. I'm not a professional by any means, but the math and averages I've used to keep my budget going.

If you don't mind me asking what did it cost to get the attic re insulated? I'm thinking that might really help me out.

Builder had R30 installed and when we upped it to R50 it cost $1,000. Or if you buy the insulation at Lowes they'll loan you the machine to blow it in for free.

Makes sense, you were using national average gas rates, not actual ONG/OG+E rates.

NG is about 50 cents per therm (100,000BTU) with ONG. Based on a energy factor of 2.45 the Heat pump water heater uses 12KWH of electricity to produce the same 100,000BTU of heat. OG+E charges about 10 cents per KWH, so the same 100k btu would be $1.20. For those on ONG, the heat pump water heater doesn't make economic sense.

All electric homes or homes with propane is a different story.

Don't forget about ONG charging a minimum $13/mo service fee. (twice that if a heavy user) At our last house with a NG 40 gl WH my wife just checked and our bill in the summer was always close to $38/mo. So the math does work for a Hybrid WH IMO.

Don't forget about ONG charging a minimum $13/mo service fee. (twice that if a heavy user) At our last house with a NG 40 gl WH my wife just checked and our bill in the summer was always close to $38/mo. So the math does work for a Hybrid WH IMO.

ONG does lay the base meter charges on thick, but the gas itself is quite cheap. Once you pay the hefty monthly service charge, run as much on the cheap NG as possible. This is why the HP water heater doesn't make economic sense for those on ONG. Neither do dual fuel heating systems for that matter.

During the summer my highest electric bill is $180. It's closer to the $130 mark on average though. Single story house. I haven' looked at it from a month to month, but I can give some averages for different times of the year. From September to November I averaged 1.75 gallons a day. So realistically those months if I'm paying the $1.75 it's costing me about $90 a month. Now for December and January I'm averaging 5.7 gallons a day so for December again using the $1.65 that I currently have would put it around $292. So I guess a bit cheaper than I alluded to, but still you replace that $1.65 with the current $3.40 and for the past 2 months that's $600.

To me my insulation has a few low spots that could use some improvement. In some places I can see the beams, so I think that should be covered because that would only be about 6 inches of cover. I'm not a professional by any means, but the math and averages I've used to keep my budget going.

Electric bills aren't unreasonable for a 2007 2,100sqft house. Propane is 91,500BTU per gallon. Your builder most likely oversized the furnace and put in a 100,000BTU model. 4 gallons of propane equates to 4.36hrs of burner time per day, which is a reasonable amount of heat loss for your house.

The cost per gallon on the propane is what's killing you. A $3.40/gallon it would be cheaper to use plain electric resistance heaters!! $3.70 for 100K vs. $2.90 using resistance heat @ 10 cents per KWH. Heat Pump with a COP of 2.5 would be about $1.15 per 100,000BTU. With a heat pump you would most likely go over 600KWH in a month during the winter and the electricity goes to 6 cents per KWH. Heat pump then runs for 70 cents per 100,000BTU.

ONG does lay the base meter charges on thick, but the gas itself is quite cheap. Once you pay the hefty monthly service charge, run as much on the cheap NG as possible. This is why the HP water heater doesn't make economic sense for those on ONG. Neither do dual fuel heating systems for that matter.

I won't belabor the point too much but I'll disagree with you about the choice of NG over total electric. My bills in a house half the size of our current one were more when paying for NG and electric than they are here now with total electric.

I won't belabor the point too much but I'll disagree with you about the choice of NG over total electric. My bills in a house half the size of our current one were more when paying for NG and electric than they are here now with total electric.

Your savings comes from ditching the $350/yr in fixed ONG meter charges, not from the heat pump water heater. Unless you are converting your house to total electric a heat pump water heater doesn't make economic sense.

ONG does lay the base meter charges on thick, but the gas itself is quite cheap. Once you pay the hefty monthly service charge, run as much on the cheap NG as possible. This is why the HP water heater doesn't make economic sense for those on ONG. Neither do dual fuel heating systems for that matter.The high monthly ONG charge is one small reason why I switched to a 100 % electric Geothermal heat and air system....It also provides me with free hot water when the unit is running.
Geothermal is a great way to go in most new home construction in our area IMHO.

Electric bills aren't unreasonable for a 2007 2,100sqft house. Propane is 91,500BTU per gallon. Your builder most likely oversized the furnace and put in a 100,000BTU model. 4 gallons of propane equates to 4.36hrs of burner time per day, which is a reasonable amount of heat loss for your house.

The cost per gallon on the propane is what's killing you. A $3.40/gallon it would be cheaper to use plain electric resistance heaters!! $3.70 for 100K vs. $2.90 using resistance heat @ 10 cents per KWH. Heat Pump with a COP of 2.5 would be about $1.15 per 100,000BTU. With a heat pump you would most likely go over 600KWH in a month during the winter and the electricity goes to 6 cents per KWH. Heat pump then runs for 70 cents per 100,000BTU.

You are clearly a lot more knowledgeable than myself, so what would you suggest in my situation? I doubt propane stays this high. Hopefully it goes back down closer to at least $2 hopefully back down to the $1.75 by summer. I've had the unit looked at recently and he said everything checked out, but still even with the laundry list of what was looked at, I don't know if there is more that can be done.

The high monthly ONG charge is one small reason why I switched to a 100 % electric Geothermal heat and air system....It also provides me with free hot water when the unit is running.
Geothermal is a great way to go in most new home construction in our area IMHO.

Geothermal is EXCELLENT, just wish it wasn't so expensive!! Do you miss gas water heater/stove at all?
Ground loops are a large part of the Geothermal install cost, but are much cheaper at time of home construction.

You are clearly a lot more knowledgeable than myself, so what would you suggest in my situation? I doubt propane stays this high. Hopefully it goes back down closer to at least $2 hopefully back down to the $1.75 by summer. I've had the unit looked at recently and he said everything checked out, but still even with the laundry list of what was looked at, I don't know if there is more that can be done.

I'd go with a dual fuel system (add a heatpump) if I was in your situation, you already have the furnace. Nobody knows what electric or propane rates will be in the future, with dual fuel you can choose the lowest cost fuel as rates change.

Heating Fuel Cost Calculator - BuildingGreen.com (http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm)

Propane shortage reaches emergency levels (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-propane-shortage-20140126,0,2263871.story#axzz2rYTl0w2g)

That article is somewhat promising in the fact that it seems like there are some unfortunate events that coincided. I'm going to look at a heat pump but from a quick call to an hvac friend sounds like I'd have to replace a lot because my unit uses the old r22. He is saying ballpark $5k. That's practically a new system.

Geothermal is EXCELLENT, just wish it wasn't so expensive!! Do you miss gas water heater/stove at all?
Ground loops are a large part of the Geothermal install cost, but are much cheaper at time of home construction.
Personally I have never missed any of my NG appliances and I am someone who worked in the natural gas transmission business for about 15 years. The performance in extreme weather has been very good. Unlike many people I keep the thermostat wherever it feels comfortable and don't worry about my bill is being 10 dollars higher that month because of it.

The up front cost are high, although the tax breaks and rebate did help a lot.
I look at this as an investment that pays me back a dividend with a lower utility bill each month.
It will add just a tad extra to my homes value and perhaps make it an easier sell?

Much to many of my neighbor's amazement we had the Geothermal wells drilling in our front yard. Some thought we were drilling for oil. The pipe in the wells and ground, that is the loop, is guaranteed for 50 years. Even if our home is blown away in a tornado the ground loop / wells would make our lot more desirable to buy.

Another very big reason why I elected to go with Geo thermal is that it would act as a hedge against future NG price spikes that were 100% sure to come at some point with the way our Government has been interfering with the NG business.

I'd go with a dual fuel system (add a heatpump) if I was in your situation, you already have the furnace. Nobody knows what electric or propane rates will be in the future, with dual fuel you can choose the lowest cost fuel as rates change.

Heating Fuel Cost Calculator - BuildingGreen.com (http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm)
My Geothermal unit replaced a old dual fuel system that I had.
Several years ago when NG surcharges were extremely high I did exactly as you suggest and used the cheaper electrical power for heat as much as I could.

That article is somewhat promising in the fact that it seems like there are some unfortunate events that coincided. I'm going to look at a heat pump but from a quick call to an hvac friend sounds like I'd have to replace a lot because my unit uses the old r22. He is saying ballpark $5k. That's practically a new system.

Yes, you would need to buy a matching coil/condenser when switching to a heat pump system. Did you tell him you wanted to reuse your old furnace? Did you discuss the tons of the unit?

Yeah we talked a bit about that, my unit is a 4 ton I believe. I'm not sure how expensive those pieces are but it seems like those are the major components so I guess that's why it is so high.

4 tons is most likely overkill, sized by the old "500sqft per ton" rule thats been around since the 60's. Hopefully your house is better insulated than a 1960's model!! You bill is $130/mo which would be closer to a 2.5-3 ton load.

Well there is a natural gas line that runs through my neighborhood, as people that live towards the back of my development have NG. I called ONG today to see what it would cost to run a line and they said they'd have to go measure. Maybe that is a better alternative than switching my whole unit over.

I won't belabor the point too much but I'll disagree with you about the choice of NG over total electric. My bills in a house half the size of our current one were more when paying for NG and electric than they are here now with total electric.

The day that I would consider going totally electric would be the day after they put all of the supply lines underground.
(can you say "ice storm power outages"? . . . that can last for weeks?)

The day that I would consider going totally electric would be the day after they put all of the supply lines underground.
(can you say "ice storm power outages"? . . . that can last for weeks?)

While not totally fool proof living in a large neighborhood with underground utility's helps a lot.
In my case I am on the same main line as a major OG&E maintenance facility....
In the 12 years in this home we have been without power for a grand total of 6 to 7 hours and most of that was due to a copper thief.

Power outages would still require that you have a generator to run your gas furnace. BTDT, 2002, 40 hours w/o power right in Mustang. I see no advantage to gas. I have a fireplace connected to a small propane tank that will run me for several days if the heat pump is off line. Also have a transfer switch and generator.

Just talked with someone at OLG, $3.98 a gallon.

Well there is a natural gas line that runs through my neighborhood, as people that live towards the back of my development have NG. I called ONG today to see what it would cost to run a line and they said they'd have to go measure. Maybe that is a better alternative than switching my whole unit over.

The furnace and stove most likely can be converted. The water heater will need to be replaced. ONG will give you $400 towards a gas dryer.

The furnace and stove most likely can be converted. The water heater will need to be replaced. ONG will give you $400 towards a gas dryer.

Why couldn't the hot water tank be converted? I think that thing is brand new. I thought everything came NG and then could be converted to propane.

Zuplar and Servicetech571k,
My water heater was converted. It's a simple orifice change.
C. T.
Why couldn't the hot water tank be converted? I think that thing is brand new. I thought everything came NG and then could be converted to propane.

Zuplar and Servicetech571k,
My water heater was converted. It's a simple orifice change.
C. T.

What brand is yours? I would think it would be easy but things nowadays seem not to be. If it couldn't be converted that could be a deal breaker. That is assuming to run the line is cheap.

Zuplar and Servicetech571k,
My water heater was converted. It's a simple orifice change.
C. T.

Did you convert from Propane to NG or the other way around?

Most water heaters are not rated for conversion, but that doesn't mean it can't be done...

I'd love to see the labeling on a water heater under 20 years old that is rated for conversion, I didn't know they still made them.

6442

6443

I just went and looked and don't see anywhere that it says Propane only. It actually only says LP in one place. Other than that it's similar warnings about hot water and gas smell. It's a bradford white. I googled the model number and it is a propane model, but looks like it also comes in a NG model. So makes me wonder if you could buy the NG parts to install.

I just went and looked and don't see anywhere that it says Propane only. It actually only says LP in one place. Other than that it's similar warnings about hot water and gas smell. It's a bradford white. I googled the model number and it is a propane model, but looks like it also comes in a NG model. So makes me wonder if you could buy the NG parts to install.

Mine only says NG on the gas valve itself, appearently the valve cannot be converted. To convert you would have to replace the gas valve and the burner orfice. AGA rating would be lost in the process. A conventional NG water heater is $350, and yours is probably the same 7yrs the house is. Water heaters are typically good for 10-15 years. Not worth the the effort to convert, just buy a new WH.

Mine only says NG on the gas valve itself, appearently the valve cannot be converted. To convert you would have to replace the gas valve and the burner orfice. AGA rating would be lost in the process. A conventional NG water heater is $350, and yours is probably the same 7yrs the house is. Water heaters are typically good for 10-15 years. Not worth the the effort to convert, just buy a new WH.

Probably a good point, might even be an opportunity to upgrade. I'm hoping to hear back from ONG today or tomorrow at the latest, but with the weather that could be delayed. I'm hoping the line is close enough they are going to do it for next to nothing. I'm just wondering how they tie it into my existing lines.

Zuplar,
It's a "State". Did you see my post #4? I posted what it cost me in the late 90's, And I think that's a little higher than I actually paid. I seem to remember that it was actually between $1,600 and $1,650.
C. T.

What brand is yours? I would think it would be easy but things nowadays seem not to be. If it couldn't be converted that could be a deal breaker. That is assuming to run the line is cheap.

Servicetech571,
From propane to ng. Why would I go the other way? The conversion to ng has saved me a bundle, even when I was paying 75 cents per gallon. When I had it done, the plumber didn't even look at the water heater, there was no question that they could be converted. It was so easy, it wasn't an issue.
C. T.
Did you convert from Propane to NG or the other way around?

Most water heaters are not rated for conversion, but that doesn't mean it can't be done...

Zuplar,
It's a "State". Did you see my post #4? I posted what it cost me in the late 90's, And I think that's a little higher than I actually paid. I seem to remember that it was actually between $1,600 and $1,650.
C. T.

Yeah, I missed that early, but see it now. My other concern is how they would connect the line to my existing. Right now it goes in the house by the driveway which is all concrete. My tank is buried so there isn't any visible lines other than into the house.

Servicetech571,
From propane to ng. Why would I go the other way? The conversion to ng has saved me a bundle, even when I was paying 75 cents per gallon. When I had it done, the plumber didn't even look at the water heater, there was no question that they could be converted. It was so easy, it wasn't an issue.
C. T.

Propane to NG of course, brain fart.
You did your conversion on a 20yr old water heater, back when they used to be convertable.
The old water heaters only cost $100 - $150 and were convertable. Then the EPA got involved. Now they cost $300+ and aren't convertable.

natty gas prices +8 or 9 % today...jeez!

guess its cold and its winter.

Glad I saw this thread - I came on to specifically talk about propane costs and the shortages. DANG.

We also have a 1000 gallon tank and I added 500 gallons last August at $1.80 a gallon. That put us right at 700 gallons and I'd expected that to get us through mid March or later when, I hoped, prices would be reasonable. Then this winter and the shortages struck. Yikes.

I have a 3000 square foot house with all propane appliances except the microwave. I've used right at 380 gallons since August 29, including the past two bitterly cold months, and that is nowhere near the amount that Zuplar apparently uses. That's craziness!! We have two AC/heater units and maybe this house is better insulated but it is always super comfortable. (btw, we replaced two hot water tanks, last year, and got rebates on both of them for propane - the propane vendor was super nice about helping us fill out the paperwork). When this house was built they didn't have the NG option but we do now. We haven't switched over because we replaced most of the propane appliances three years ago. If we were building new, we'd definitely go with geothermal. If this propane thing starts getting chronic we may have to reconsider but I always liked the idea of having my fuel already paid for and where I could get to it.

Anywho, being a stewer and a fretter, I've been irritating husband for the past couple of days over concerns that we are going to run out of fuel and it is going to be sky high to replace it. I saw the reports of $5.00 a gallon propane and that some vendors aren't even letting residential customers buy on credit because they simply can't afford to pay. Terrible. We still have over 300 gallons in the tank but longterm weather reports suggest February isn't going to give us much of a break. I am skeptical that prices will come down all that much by mid March and by that time, I'd be starting to lose sleep over that dang empty tank.

I called our propane vendor and they have it at $3.40 but said it was going way up, starting tomorrow. We locked in another 300 gallons at that price so I will be able to sleep easy. I just wish I'd completely filled the blasted thing last August and saved myself several hundred dollars.

natty gas prices +8 or 9 % today...jeez!

guess its cold and its winter.

It will be interesting to see how it affects ONG bills next month. Really happy we upgraded our furnace to a condensing model last year...

Glad I saw this thread - I came on to specifically talk about propane costs and the shortages. DANG.

We also have a 1000 gallon tank and I added 500 gallons last August at $1.80 a gallon. That put us right at 700 gallons and I'd expected that to get us through mid March or later when, I hoped, prices would be reasonable. Then this winter and the shortages struck. Yikes.

I have a 3000 square foot house with all propane appliances except the microwave. I've used right at 380 gallons since August 29, including the past two bitterly cold months, and that is nowhere near the amount that Zuplar apparently uses. That's craziness!! We have two AC/heater units and maybe this house is better insulated but it is always super comfortable. (btw, we replaced two hot water tanks, last year, and got rebates on both of them for propane - the propane vendor was super nice about helping us fill out the paperwork). When this house was built they didn't have the NG option but we do now. We haven't switched over because we replaced most of the propane appliances three years ago. If we were building new, we'd definitely go with geothermal. If this propane thing starts getting chronic we may have to reconsider but I always liked the idea of having my fuel already paid for and where I could get to it.

Anywho, being a stewer and a fretter, I've been irritating husband for the past couple of days over concerns that we are going to run out of fuel and it is going to be sky high to replace it. I saw the reports of $5.00 a gallon propane and that some vendors aren't even letting residential customers buy on credit because they simply can't afford to pay. Terrible. We still have over 300 gallons in the tank but longterm weather reports suggest February isn't going to give us much of a break. I am skeptical that prices will come down all that much by mid March and by that time, I'd be starting to lose sleep over that dang empty tank.

I called our propane vendor and they have it at $3.40 but said it was going way up, starting tomorrow. We locked in another 300 gallons at that price so I will be able to sleep easy. I just wish I'd completely filled the blasted thing last August and saved myself several hundred dollars.

Yeah I'm not sure why I use so much, doesn't make any sense. My house is newer and I checked the insulation and a lot of areas I show a depth of 11 inches. Sure there are some lower spots, but nothing to be overly concerned with. Since the end of September till Monday, 1/27/14 I've used 470 gallons. Normally I keep it cooler during the day, but my wife had been at home because she was layed off so I expected to use more than the previous year, plus with the addition of the colder weather.

I'd sure like someone who knew all of about this stuff to give it all a once over to see where I could maybe save some money and use less gas. I've had someone check the furnace out at the beginning of the year and they said it looked fine and everything worked, but still I'd like it to be working as efficiently as possible.

Anyways just not sure who could do that. PennyQuilts I know you live by me, so if you don't mind me asking, who do you normally use for propane?