ThomPaine, fwiw, that experience, quite sadly, is not one unique to dealing with Sears. What passes for customer service these days in way too many businesses is quite appaling, particularly to those old enough to remember when there was not a pandemic of chronic GAD deficiency in retail and food service.

It would be a far better world if there were far more give a damn enzymes than whatever dude enzymes in most bodies.

In Austin we typically went to Lowe's, Home Depot or Conn's for appliances, up here in Denver there are a few appliance only stores (Appliance Factory Outlet where we bought our new washer/dryer for the new house, Specialty Appliance). We usually go look at the Sears Outlet store but rarely find anything there and even less help.

ThomPaine, fwiw, that experience, quite sadly, is not one unique to dealing with Sears. What passes for customer service these days in way too many businesses is quite appaling, particularly to those old enough to remember when there was not a pandemic of chronic GAD deficiency in retail and food service.

It would be a far better world if there were far more give a damn enzymes than whatever dude enzymes in most bodies.

While I don't doubt that there are sometimes issues with the design of inventory tracking systems. Most of the time I have noticed a store can not track items, it goes back to how well the individual store is managed. The items in store may have just been thrown a random spot to leave early than finding the proper place, this also goes along with how often they inventory a store.

From what I read over the last 3 years about Sears was that it was bought out to be stripped down and sold off but the economy was too bad for them to make any money selling off the commercial buildings it owns so they are keeping it going until the commercial real estate improves. As long as George Soros own's any stock in J.C. Penney I hope they go bankrupt.

Sears, definitely. It's a relic of the past along the lines of Montgomery Ward. I disagree about department stores going the way of the dodo though. High-end ones like Nordstrom, Saks, and Neiman Marcus are doing well and I am pretty sure Macy's and Dillard's are doing well also. Another one that is doing pretty well is Belk, which doesn't have a presence in OKC but is every bit as high-profile as Macy's and Dillard's in malls in the Southeastern US.

I'm not surprised that Belk is doing well. The Belk store in Stillwater is much more impressive than JCPenney.

ThomPaine, fwiw, that experience, quite sadly, is not one unique to dealing with Sears. What passes for customer service these days in way too many businesses is quite appaling, particularly to those old enough to remember when there was not a pandemic of chronic GAD deficiency in retail and food service.

It would be a far better world if there were far more give a damn enzymes than whatever dude enzymes in most bodies.

You beat me to it, Kevin. While this is certainly nothing less than a suitable indictment of Sears, it rings all too true of many if not most other retailers these days. I loathe, loathe, loathe trying to deal with anyone on the phone these days. It borders on an exercise in futility.

^

Remember, there are still places that provide great customer service, but they also tend to charge a bit more.

The relative death of customer service is due to consumers actively choosing lower prices as a higher priority. Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's, for example, offer service that will almost boggle your mind.

As an example, I was looking at dress shirts in Nordies and one of their fantastic sales assistants was extremely helpful. She pointed out some nice French-cuff shirts and I mentioned I had bought some previously but didn't like the way they fit. She asked, "What can we do for you in that regard?" I told her that I had already had them laundered and starched a couple of times and she asked again, "What would you like to do?" I told her I would prefer to return them but realized that wasn't possible and she said it was indeed possible, even without a receipt. Subsequently, I returned them for a full refund.

^

Remember, there are still places that provide great customer service, but they also tend to charge a bit more.

The relative death of customer service is due to consumers actively choosing lower prices as a higher priority. Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's, for example, offer service that will almost boggle your mind.

As an example, I was looking at dress shirts in Nordies and one of their fantastic sales assistants was extremely helpful. She pointed out some nice French-cuff shirts and I mentioned I had bought some previously but didn't like the way they fit. She asked, "What can we do for you in that regard?" I told her that I had already had them laundered and starched a couple of times and she asked again, "What would you like to do?" I told her I would prefer to return them but realized that wasn't possible and she said it was indeed possible, even without a receipt. Subsequently, I returned them for a full refund.

I agree. The only reason I went to Sears was because I wanted a nearly exact replacement. Had I realized that Whirlpool and Kenmore are now the same (usually) I probably could have gone somewhere else!

I am willing to pay a bit more for service, back before I outgrew the clothing at Harold's I shopped there a bunch. Now I wear regular size pants but larger shirts and jackets so I end up shopping in different departments. Most of the time I shop in Dillard's and Casual Male XL/Destination XL. Both seem to offer pretty good service.

Sears: 'Burning cash,' closing stores - May. 15, 2014 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/15/news/companies/sears-store-closings/)

Looking like Sears will die first. I imagine all of its big department stores will close in a couple of years as they try to survive on their smaller concept.

There is only one left in the metro these days isn't there?

Sears stores these days are ghost towns that are dirty, poorly lit, understaffed, and have nothing that I couldn't get somewhere else. It's almost depressing walking through them. Kind of a trip back to the 1980s but not in a positive way. I doubt it will be very missed.

There is only one left in the metro these days isn't there?

Sears stores these days are ghost towns that are dirty, poorly lit, understaffed, and have nothing that I couldn't get somewhere else. It's almost depressing walking through them. Kind of a trip back to the 1980s but not in a positive way. I doubt it will be very missed.

our family has always preferred to buy our tools from sears, because the craftsman have a lifetime warranty and sears will replace them for free if they break, no questions asked. my father in law builds classic cars, remodels houses, etc and he would choose craftsman over anything else. He inherited his fathers tools when he passed and when theyve broken, sears has never questioned him when hes gone to get a replacement and never charged him for a replacement. i was in there recently and the store was actually very busy in the tools and electronics departments.

im sad to see them shutting down!

There is only one left in the metro these days isn't there?

Sears stores these days are ghost towns that are dirty, poorly lit, understaffed, and have nothing that I couldn't get somewhere else. It's almost depressing walking through them. Kind of a trip back to the 1980s but not in a positive way. I doubt it will be very missed.

The Sears website shows TWO stores in OKC: Heritage Park Mall in MWC and S. Western.
There is NO indication that either one of those two stores are closing, as Sears has not announced which 100 of its stores it is closing.

our family has always preferred to buy our tools from sears, because the craftsman have a lifetime warranty and sears will replace them for free if they break, no questions asked. my father in law builds classic cars, remodels houses, etc and he would choose craftsman over anything else. He inherited his fathers tools when he passed and when theyve broken, sears has never questioned him when hes gone to get a replacement and never charged him for a replacement. i was in there recently and the store was actually very busy in the tools and electronics departments.

im sad to see them shutting down!

The sad thing about this post is that it reflects the way Sears and Craftsman used to be revered. Older, classic Craftsman tools are collectible classics, but today's are latter-day junk. I had a small ratchet wrench that would no longer reverse direction, so I went by to get my Craftsman replacement. The replacement was a mess - the switch reverser was a flimsy plastic switch and the guts felt like the thing would fly apart when used for much of anything practical.

You can also get Craftsman at ACE Hardware stores now. I don't know if they provide a lifetime warranty.

Norman has a Sears at Sooner mall as well.

The Sears website shows TWO stores in OKC: Heritage Park Mall in MWC and S. Western.
There is NO indication that either one of those two stores are closing, as Sears has not announced which 100 of its stores it is closing.

They're actually building this horrible little box store just off May avenue at Quail Springs.

They may announce this round of closings, but I have to agree with the comment in the article above that indicated they're going to keep closing stores while they hemorrhage cash, and they can't keep announcing each iteration. Sears isn't long for this world.

They're actually building this horrible little box store just off May avenue at Quail Springs.

They may announce this round of closings, but I have to agree with the comment in the article above that indicated they're going to keep closing stores while they hemorrhage cash, and they can't keep announcing each iteration. Sears isn't long for this world.

The little box store is an attempt to leverage the only thing they have left which is their craftsman tool legacy. I bet the other departments at their stores are a big money sink.

And really that legacy is rapidly fading.

I would like to see someone else take the JCP space in Penn Square. Though I like what they've done with the store over the last year or so, a Nordstrom or at least an upgrade over JCP would be nice.


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I would like to see someone else take the JCP space in Penn Square. Though I like what they've done with the store over the last year or so, a Nordstrom or at least an upgrade over JCP would be nice.


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I have thought of that. Penn Square really needs to get a more upscale anchor with Quail Springs getting Von Maur. I would like to see Penn Square move upmarket in terms of its offerings all around. It's upscale by OKC standards but when you go to other cities this size and slightly larger, its pretty much your average mall. They shouldn't even have low-end stores like Windsor, Gamestop, Payless, Champs, etc given the small size of the mall.

Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom would be nice for penn square if JCP ever leaves.

Speaking of struggling stores, I don't know if anyone has posted this but Coldwater Creek is closing all their stores and Aeropostale is closing a lot of stores including all their P.S. stores .

Sears stores these days are ghost towns that are dirty, poorly lit, understaffed, and have nothing that I couldn't get somewhere else. It's almost depressing walking through them. Kind of a trip back to the 1980s but not in a positive way. I doubt it will be very missed.

I don't know where you get your information. When I have been in Sears here, the store was absolutely not dirty or poorly lit even if it wasn't booming with business. The amount of staff was certainly adequate for the business.

Things are looking up for JCP.

JC Penney beats expectations as sales improve | News OK (http://newsok.com/jc-penney-beats-expectations-as-sales-improve/article/feed/687604)

I will say this. Because the Budget Kiosk in Norman is in the Sear's store, I've been in it several times over the last few years. the store appears to be well stocked in most all departments, with active shoppers throughout. Whatever problems Sears may have elsewhere, it seems to have a loyal following out at Sooner Mall in Norman.

I will say this. Because the Budget Kiosk in Norman is in the Sear's store, I've been in it several times over the last few years. the store appears to be well stocked in most all departments, with active shoppers throughout. Whatever problems Sears may have elsewhere, it seems to have a loyal following out at Sooner Mall in Norman.

I did my Christmas Shopping at the Norman store last year. It is one of the best maintained stores I have seen in awhile. Midwest City and South Western appear to be holding their own as well. The traffic at both stores has picked up since they closed the store at Quail Springs. Every now and then they will see a packed parking lot. Nothing compared to the old school days but, busier then what the used to be. I think they could do really well if they went down to two full sized stores for the metro the rest of the city could be served by Sears Hometown Stores. A perfect place for one would be right off I-40 between Air Depot and Downtown.

I don't know where you get your information. When I have been in Sears here, the store was absolutely not dirty or poorly lit even if it wasn't booming with business. The amount of staff was certainly adequate for the business.

Can't speak for what bchris02 is referencing, but I can attest to the state of the 44th and S. Western store. They could stuff the whole thing into the back of a UHaul one night and stealth away....

One other point raised in that financial article was that, to the external/bus/fin type, the current CEO of Sears Holdings was "clearly" (Or was it "obviously?") engaging in an "orderly liquidation" based on the lack of store investment/upkeep and the way satellite holdings such as Lands End have been spun off, etc.

One thing that I think JCPenny does have going for it is that they brought back one or two (?) of their own label clothes - and I, for one, happened to like the clothes sold under the St. John's Bay label - only to find them gone when Mr. Cool Apple Dude took over and promptly filled the company with worms. Still don't really hold out hope that they are going to magically turn around, but I think they are at least a) trying, and b) have something on which to build, whereas Sears is pressing forward with its "We Really Don't Care Anymore" attitude...

You can also get Craftsman at ACE Hardware stores now. I don't know if they provide a lifetime warranty.
K-Mart carries Craftsman as well.

After getting rid of the mall stores, they are going back to their roots as a showroom as the only future they have. It could be bigger than ever now as people like to look, hold, touch this or that, but then order it from the store and pick it up the next day - or have it shipped to their front door. They are actually making inroads with electronics, too. I wouldn't be too quick to right off their whole new vision, it may be more suited to this era than those of an earlier time. The Sears Hometown stores may pull the rabbit out of the hat.

I've been buying a lot of clothes at the Quail JC Penneys lately. Been finding a lot of good deals on men's dress clothes there.

Can't speak for what bchris02 is referencing, but I can attest to the state of the 44th and S. Western store. They could stuff the whole thing into the back of a UHaul one night and stealth away.....

That's the Sears I have been to most often, so obviously I disagree.

That's the Sears I have been to most often, so obviously I disagree.

Interesting difference in perspectives. I just have too vivid memories of what it was back when it was popular versus its...present condition. Compared to then, its a slum now. I guess one could argue its better than the average walmart, but I think that's the essence of damning with faint praise.

I remember when that store was part of a vibrant shopping corridor, and when Sears was almost part of Christmas as an institution. That store, which was very similar in design to its long-gone counterpart over on NW 23rd, was, in its day, a really nice place to shop - particularly around the holidays. Their also-long-gone "script" red neon sign would complement the rich red Christmas lights that would adorn the perimeter of the roof, and the Sears Christmas Wish Book was the hallmark of the arrival of the early part of the Christmas season.

The Reding location is just an archetype of the way Sears has neglected its broader "inventory" of stores, and that neglect was aptly described in the article. It obviously isn't accidental. Really a shame.

About a year ago I stopped in the JCP at Penn Square, and most of the floor space was just open areas with carpeting. I think people stop in their to use the toilet since there's not much of a line.

How about Radio Shack? I wonder who buys from them these days.

I do. A clerk at Wal-Mart a couple of days ago told me to go to Radio Shack to find a wafer battery I needed. Wal-Mart didn't have it.

^

Remember, there are still places that provide great customer service, but they also tend to charge a bit more.

The relative death of customer service is due to consumers actively choosing lower prices as a higher priority. Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's, for example, offer service that will almost boggle your mind.

As an example, I was looking at dress shirts in Nordies and one of their fantastic sales assistants was extremely helpful. She pointed out some nice French-cuff shirts and I mentioned I had bought some previously but didn't like the way they fit. She asked, "What can we do for you in that regard?" I told her that I had already had them laundered and starched a couple of times and she asked again, "What would you like to do?" I told her I would prefer to return them but realized that wasn't possible and she said it was indeed possible, even without a receipt. Subsequently, I returned them for a full refund.

I had a similar experience at nordstrom on a pair of shoes. I was wearing them, and it came up in conversation with the associate that I had to wear an insole to make them fit because I bought a half size too big. 5 minutes later I was wearing the correct size, and I actually felt a bit guilty about it. Regardless, there's a reason to shop there, and you're getting your money's worth.

I remember when that store was part of a vibrant shopping corridor, and when Sears was almost part of Christmas as an institution. That store, which was very similar in design to its long-gone counterpart over on NW 23rd, was, in its day, a really nice place to shop - particularly around the holidays. Their also-long-gone "script" red neon sign would complement the rich red Christmas lights that would adorn the perimeter of the roof, and the Sears Christmas Wish Book was the hallmark of the arrival of the early part of the Christmas season.

I remember the 23rd and Pennsylvania store and the Reding store (as well as the Midwest City store that burned to the ground in 1976) SoonerDave's description of the Christmas season at Sears of days very long past is quite evocative.

In the 1960s, my family did virtually all our shopping at Sears. For myself, I haven't set foot in a Sears store in over thirty years. A couple of unnecessarily unpleasant sales experiences in a market overabundant with better alternatives saw to that.

I don't know where you get your information. When I have been in Sears here, the store was absolutely not dirty or poorly lit even if it wasn't booming with business. The amount of staff was certainly adequate for the business.

I haven't been in an OKC Sears other than the Quail location prior to it closing so I don't know how the remaining ones are here. The Little Rock location is absolutely horrible so I am basing my opinion off of that.

I haven't been in an OKC Sears other than the Quail location prior to it closing so I don't know how the remaining ones are here. The Little Rock location is absolutely horrible so I am basing my opinion off of that.

Well of course. That's Arkansas. so a blanket opinion about Sears based on that store is absolutely warranted. :wink:

Walking into the one in Capitol Plaza in Austin (just north of the UT campus, facing I-35) was like walking into a time warp, it really didn't look much different than I remember the one at 23rd & Penn was like. I don't think I have been in a Sears store here in Denver, just a Sears Outlet looking at appliances.

I do. A clerk at Wal-Mart a couple of days ago told me to go to Radio Shack to find a wafer battery I needed. Wal-Mart didn't have it.

I'll be amazed if there's anything left of what we know as Radio Shack in five years. And in all honesty, I think five years is being generous. I just don't see how their business model can sustain the stripmall storefronts they occupy, and the hobbyist electronics niche they filled for so many years is either filled now by Internet retailers or is just shrinking in general. I seriously doubt that RC cars and cell phones are going to turn them around.

Sears is for sure the first to go. The current CEO has been on a path of closing stores to liquidate the company in a controlled manner. I think they see the writing on the wall and are just trying to keep the place from going into a firesale. This way they can control more of the decline. The lack of investment in ANY stores hasn't helped to keep them going. Sears lost its purpose a LONG time ago in trying to be too many things. The idea of the department store has changed, and having everything from clothes/tools/electronics/applicanes/housewares/etc. doesn't work. You really need to divide up and decide what you're doing.

From the tools and appliances side, they are falling because of the crappy service they offer and the crappy employee attitudes. Who wants to shop with someone that's rude and doesn't really know what they're doing? From the employee's side, why give a crap when your employer is treating you like dirt? They are following the same employee model Kmart did, which as to treat the employee base like a revolving door....who cares if you treat them bad because there is always someone to replace you in 24 hours. I actually had a kmart manager say that during business hours...called every employee to the front of the store to say that because someone mouthed off to her....both in front of all the customers. Turned out she had been drinking more than just water in her cup and she got fired a week later, but it was the general idea of managers. You invest in your employees, and things will turn around because your employees will be GOOD sales people...even being able to sell a bad product.

Choosing crappy clothing lines also didn't help. There are enough Kohl's and Penny's out there (and you see how well they are doing). Sears wants to survive at all, they need to offer something that draws people in. WalMart sales better quality stuff than Sears!!!! HOW SAD IS THAT! I think Sear's day in the department store world is done. If they can refocus on the hard side instead of the soft side, maybe they can get somewhere. But really, there are too many players in those fields to make it work. Sears is doomed and there isn't anything that's gonna keep it from happening.

My wife mentioned that she thought she already saw a for lease sign on the new Sears building they are building by Quail. Anyone else see this?

My wife mentioned that she thought she already saw a for lease sign on the new Sears building they are building by Quail. Anyone else see this?

There are two spaces in that building that are for lease. Sears isn't for lease as far as I know.

There are two spaces in that building that are for lease. Sears isn't for lease as far as I know.

Didn't realize Sears wasn't taking up that whole building. What are they going to sell in the small of a space? Will it just be Craftsman tools, and appliance ordering?

They might sell some electronics as well.

Sears is for sure the first to go. The current CEO has been on a path of closing stores to liquidate the company in a controlled manner. I think they see the writing on the wall and are just trying to keep the place from going into a firesale. This way they can control more of the decline. The lack of investment in ANY stores hasn't helped to keep them going. Sears lost its purpose a LONG time ago in trying to be too many things. The idea of the department store has changed, and having everything from clothes/tools/electronics/applicanes/housewares/etc. doesn't work. You really need to divide up and decide what you're doing.

From the tools and appliances side, they are falling because of the crappy service they offer and the crappy employee attitudes. Who wants to shop with someone that's rude and doesn't really know what they're doing? From the employee's side, why give a crap when your employer is treating you like dirt? They are following the same employee model Kmart did, which as to treat the employee base like a revolving door....who cares if you treat them bad because there is always someone to replace you in 24 hours. I actually had a kmart manager say that during business hours...called every employee to the front of the store to say that because someone mouthed off to her....both in front of all the customers. Turned out she had been drinking more than just water in her cup and she got fired a week later, but it was the general idea of managers. You invest in your employees, and things will turn around because your employees will be GOOD sales people...even being able to sell a bad product.

Choosing crappy clothing lines also didn't help. There are enough Kohl's and Penny's out there (and you see how well they are doing). Sears wants to survive at all, they need to offer something that draws people in. WalMart sales better quality stuff than Sears!!!! HOW SAD IS THAT! I think Sear's day in the department store world is done. If they can refocus on the hard side instead of the soft side, maybe they can get somewhere. But really, there are too many players in those fields to make it work. Sears is doomed and there isn't anything that's gonna keep it from happening.

You hit the nail on the head.

Sears seems to not only be living pre-Internet, but pre-Wal-Mart. I am really surprised they haven't already seen their demise.

The Sears store at Quail Springs still has a coming soon banner displayed in their store. How long has the building been done? Doesn't seem like a good sign.

If you like business books, there is an interesting one written about Sears called The Big Store: Inside the Crisis and Revolution at Sears, about the rise and decline of Sears. It was published in 1987 so that kind of tells you that in 27 years they still haven't adapted. One line in the book talks about the threat that Walmart posed to Sears and the decision to go discount is hard when you are sitting in granite encrusted offices on the 100th floor of the (then) tallest skyscraper. They stated how Walmart was a discounter at heart and their offices (when Sam was still alive) reflected that.

Amazon - The Big Store: Inside the Crisis and Revolution at Sears (http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Store-Donald-Katz/dp/0670805122/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1RHPZNZ45KZNZQ5TW841)

Amazon - The Big Store: Inside the Crisis and Revolution at Sears (http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Store-Donald-Katz/dp/0670805122/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1RHPZNZ45KZNZQ5TW841)

Does anyone else think it's ironic that Amazon is selling this book? Makes you wonder if some new retail giant with a business model we've never dreamed of will ever be selling this book about Amazon's fall one day.

Does anyone else think it's ironic that Amazon is selling this book? Makes you wonder if some new retail giant with a business model we've never dreamed of will ever be selling this book about Amazon's fall one day.
I kind of caught that when I posted it.....

I bought the book in the late 80's or early 90's in a closeout bin somewhere, bought a lot of business books that way back then.

Does anyone else think it's ironic that Amazon is selling this book? Makes you wonder if some new retail giant with a business model we've never dreamed of will ever be selling this book about Amazon's fall one day.

Jeff Bezos says he fully expects Amazon to wane away and expire.

Companies have short life spans Charlie. And Amazon will be disrupted one day.
(from his 60 Minutes interview)

Jeff Bezos says he fully expects Amazon to wane away and expire.

(from his 60 Minutes interview)

I need to see if I can find that interview, and watch it! Hopefully they don't expire before my Prime membership is up :)

I went into my local JC Penny last week for the first time in at least 8 years and it was like stepping into a time machine. They just need to gut that whole store down to the steel skeleton and rebuild it.

Here are a couple of things I noticed:
1) Mannequins at the entrance were nude. Being nude wasn't the problem, the fact that their prime selling space wasn't selling anything is the problem.
2) The ceiling was very low and consisted of those 1980's acoustic false ceiling tiles.
3) The display cases were from the 1970s and bathed in yellow light which made everything look dingy
4) The escalators to the second floor were completely enclosed in a drywall tunnel which blocked sight lines, made the store look smaller, and prevented people on the escalator from viewing any merchandise.

Anyhow, I bought my watch battery so I probably wont be back in the store for at least 4 more years.

I've always thought the jcp that I've been to in the okc area have always been busy and relatively updated in comparison to other retailers.

Now sears, I used to be a big fan before craftsman got outsourced and it being impossible to find anyone who works there with even the slightest interest or knowledge to help you. Years ago I went for a push craftsman mower, left and went to lowes to buy a lawn boy. More recently went to go buy a craftsman riding mower, left and went to go buy a jdeere rider instead.

Each time no one was interested in helping and the products have been cheaper out.

I went into my local JC Penny last week for the first time in at least 8 years and it was like stepping into a time machine. They just need to gut that whole store down to the steel skeleton and rebuild it.

Here are a couple of things I noticed:
1) Mannequins at the entrance were nude. Being nude wasn't the problem, the fact that their prime selling space wasn't selling anything is the problem.
2) The ceiling was very low and consisted of those 1980's acoustic false ceiling tiles.
3) The display cases were from the 1970s and bathed in yellow light which made everything look dingy
4) The escalators to the second floor were completely enclosed in a drywall tunnel which blocked sight lines, made the store look smaller, and prevented people on the escalator from viewing any merchandise.

Anyhow, I bought my watch battery so I probably wont be back in the store for at least 4 more years.Went into the JCP at Quail Springs and it was a joke.

With Von Maur coming in, all the existing QSM anchors need facelifts. They are all straight out of 1987.

Jeff Bezos says he fully expects Amazon to wane away and expire.

(from his 60 Minutes interview)

Empires like this seemingly implode through entirely unpredicted forces, victims of their own empiric nature almost.

I mean, think about it - no one would have predicted IBM's computing dominance to fail back in the 70's, but it did. No one would have challenged the dominance of AT&T, until they did. No one would have predicted the end of newspapers and magazines, until it happened (okay, overstated slightly, but you get the point). Heck, not even 10-15 years ago, everyone was worried about the ubiquity/semi-monopoly nature of Microsoft, and now they're struggling to get 10-15% market penetration for their flagship OS.

Point being that big, dominating organizations, one with monopoly-like qualities (but not necessarily actual monopolies themselves) somehow manage to self-destruct - collapse under their own weight, as it were....and typically in ways no one would possibly have predicted or foreseen.

The reason these companies rise and fall is because they are built using the growth model - and it isn't sustainable because nothing grows forever. Take Walmart as an example, most of the income at Walmart is derived from new store openings, but the larger they get the more stores they have to open to keep the rate of growth going. Once the rate of growth declines they can't afford to expand (money for expansion comes from income derived from the growth model) and are eventually forced to rely on same store sales, of which there isn't enough revenue to keep underperforming stores from closing. The companies then try closing stores and laying off workers to keep the bottom line in the black, but just like the growth model can't work forever, neither can the shrink model - so they just fade away into the night and the next growth model company steps up to the plate.

Empires like this seemingly implode through entirely unpredicted forces, victims of their own empiric nature almost.

I mean, think about it - no one would have predicted IBM's computing dominance to fail back in the 70's, but it did. No one would have challenged the dominance of AT&T, until they did. No one would have predicted the end of newspapers and magazines, until it happened (okay, overstated slightly, but you get the point). Heck, not even 10-15 years ago, everyone was worried about the ubiquity/semi-monopoly nature of Microsoft, and now they're struggling to get 10-15% market penetration for their flagship OS.

Point being that big, dominating organizations, one with monopoly-like qualities (but not necessarily actual monopolies themselves) somehow manage to self-destruct - collapse under their own weight, as it were....and typically in ways no one would possibly have predicted or foreseen.

I see GM in this description, too. I think GM saw GM in this description, too, when they created Saturn. They discovered they were getting hammered in the small car market and decided to forge this new brand that would start entirely from scratch. Sadly, they couldn't follow through and let Saturn grow into an existence of its own and started making Saab and Opel the thing to clone for small cars. Further, just when Saturn started to make a go of it, (the crash(?) of) 2008 came along and Saturn fell victim to brand contraction.

The reason these companies rise and fall is because they are built using the growth model - and it isn't sustainable because nothing grows forever. Take Walmart as an example, most of the income at Walmart is derived from new store openings, but the larger they get the more stores they have to open to keep the rate of growth going. Once the rate of growth declines they can't afford to expand (money for expansion comes from income derived from the growth model) and are eventually forced to rely on same store sales, of which there isn't enough revenue to keep underperforming stores from closing. The companies then try closing stores and laying off workers to keep the bottom line in the black, but just like the growth model can't work forever, neither can the shrink model - so they just fade away into the night and the next growth model company steps up to the plate.now I'm sure you likely know more about economics than I do at this point, but I believe it is a bit more complicated than that.

The reason these companies rise and fall is because they are built using the growth model - and it isn't sustainable because nothing grows forever. Take Walmart as an example, most of the income at Walmart is derived from new store openings, but the larger they get the more stores they have to open to keep the rate of growth going. Once the rate of growth declines they can't afford to expand (money for expansion comes from income derived from the growth model) and are eventually forced to rely on same store sales, of which there isn't enough revenue to keep underperforming stores from closing. The companies then try closing stores and laying off workers to keep the bottom line in the black, but just like the growth model can't work forever, neither can the shrink model - so they just fade away into the night and the next growth model company steps up to the plate.

I do think its possible for a chain to find a sweet spot between the two models in which they don't go too crazy with store openings to maximize the amount of profitable locations. In addition, unprofitable stores would be closed.

I do think its possible for a chain to find a sweet spot between the two models in which they don't go too crazy with store openings to maximize the amount of profitable locations. In addition, unprofitable stores would be closed.

I thought Disney did that with their stores only being open for a while here and there.

The reason these companies rise and fall is because they are built using the growth model - and it isn't sustainable because nothing grows forever. Take Walmart as an example, most of the income at Walmart is derived from new store openings, but the larger they get the more stores they have to open to keep the rate of growth going. Once the rate of growth declines they can't afford to expand (money for expansion comes from income derived from the growth model) and are eventually forced to rely on same store sales, of which there isn't enough revenue to keep underperforming stores from closing. The companies then try closing stores and laying off workers to keep the bottom line in the black, but just like the growth model can't work forever, neither can the shrink model - so they just fade away into the night and the next growth model company steps up to the plate.
...but all Wall Street cares about is growth, not long term health or viability of companies. The entire "investment" culture is all built on pump and dump and profit take on the transaction.