View Full Version : 700 West



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Pete
01-18-2014, 08:38 AM
700 W. 4th
acreage=1.8 acres
Information & Latest News
3/18/14: Project proposed (http://newsok.com/five-story-apartments-proposed-for-west-downtown-oklahoma-city-arts-district/article/3944341)
3/17/14: Detailed plans posted
1/18/14: RFP Issued
Links

Gallery

Spartan
01-18-2014, 09:49 AM
Looks good. OCURA has its **** together under O'Connor.

This development site will bridge downtown, Arts District, Midtown, and SoSA. Important site in the grand scheme.

Pete
03-17-2014, 07:25 AM
The will announce the responses to the RFP for this property this morning.

I expect at least one proposal and it will be for housing.

Pete
03-17-2014, 04:32 PM
There was one response to the RFP: a 255-unit housing project dubbed 700 West; design by Butzer Gardner for a group of local investors with some out-of-state money as well.

Small amount of retail space on the corner; 15 ground level "live/work" spaces (interesting!), all surface parking.


Will add more details soon:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west1.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west2.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/4shartel.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west3.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west4.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west5.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west6.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west7.jpg

catch22
03-17-2014, 04:42 PM
If they want to re-establish Lee Ave, they need to adjust their site plan to have some kind of building along it. Or allow for the future expansion involving a parking garage and more units on the Lee ROW.

Pete
03-17-2014, 04:43 PM
A couple more:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west8.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west9.jpg

soonerguru
03-17-2014, 04:45 PM
Rendering looks killer.

AP
03-17-2014, 04:49 PM
I don't like the surface parking.

soonerliberal
03-17-2014, 04:58 PM
The apartments are SMALL... 387 is tiny even for a studio. 787 for a 2 BR is really tight as well.

AP
03-17-2014, 04:59 PM
I wonder what the affordability of these units will be. Especially the 36 efficiency units. I think that might be something lacking in Midtown. Decently affordable efficiencies.

Pete
03-17-2014, 04:59 PM
The lead investors are GFO and Nimes Capital, both based in Los Angeles and the same group that recently bought the Sycamore Square Apartments.

Andy Burnett -- who used to work for GFO -- is also involved.

Pete
03-17-2014, 05:05 PM
Note the largest floorplan is not even 800 square feet and the one bedrooms are very small. Clearly, the emphasis is smaller, more affordable units for this development.



From the proposal:

Our Value Approaches
The proposal for 700 West is founded on sensible notions of exceptional urban development: walkability and urbanity, timeless and sustainable architecture, market responsiveness, and profitability. With 700 West, the developer proposes a residence for those whose needs have not yet fully been addressed in recent years of our city’s redevelopment.

Walkability and Urbanity
The building massing of 700 West is set forward to the extents of the property lines along North Shartel Avenue and Northwest Fourth Street, helping define the western edge of downtown Oklahoma City. The modulation of the 20’-30’ bays of its facade and its five-story height speak to best practices of walkability and urban design. A community room anchors the corner of the block where its activities and visual interest can foster safety and excitement at the city edge. Ground floor living units are conceived as live-work sites, supporting individuals whose work relates to nearby arts and fabrication districts/venues. Resident parking is off-street, while street side parking and vegetation enhance the accessibility and comfort of the building’s urban edges.

Timeless and Sustainable Architecture
The street edges of 700 West crisply reinforce the city grid. The block’s L-configuration opens towards downtown, framing premiere views of the Oklahoma City skyline. Masonry is the primary building material, promoting an elegance and longevity worthy of its site. Fine-scaled detailing of the facades, entries, and edges will ensure a timelessness that engages the human-scaled aspects of an architecture for people. All residences enjoy common sense strategies for sustainability: affordable units that foster a more socially diverse population, compact floor plans, water and energy efficient appliances and fixtures, robustly insulated building envelopes, permeable paved and high albedo outdoor horizontal surfaces, and locally or regionally sourced materials within a dense, transit-ready environment.

Market Flexibility
The programmatic and structural layout of 700 West is defined by its modularity. The module accommodates smaller-sized apartments as well as flexible placement of efficiency, one- and two-bed units. With a Metro bus stop along NW Fourth St, and the Downtown Transit Center and a proposed downtown streetcar stop within a 6-minute walk, potential residents’ reliance on ownership of automobiles is reduced, as a large number of service-type jobs are proximate through public transportation and walkable streets. The live-work apartments or ground-floor community room can adapt to commercial retail use if the market shifts in this direction. An outdoor amenities deck, including pool and game area, provide programmed uses that complement smaller residences. A strong management structure for the development maintains the integrity of its common spaces, architecture and the urban contributions

Spartan
03-17-2014, 05:12 PM
Micro-studios are a new fad. Hugely profitable. I'd put pressure on the materiality to sustain the long term durability of these small units. You don't want a future tenement but it could also be a cool opportunity to add more artists, studios, and young professionals.

Pete
03-17-2014, 05:29 PM
Neighborhood Lounge (seen at the left of this rendering) is happy:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/700west1.jpg

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 05:58 PM
Pete these days it is the So Fine Club. Much to the consternation of the (mostly-downtown) Millenials who adopted it in the past couple of years...

Chadanth
03-17-2014, 06:01 PM
Why not a parking deck? They'd have the option space to do more retail and office? Otherwise, I think it's a decent use of an underutilized area.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 06:03 PM
Looks great from the street. Perhaps the surface parking provides flexibility for future infill on the same lot; maybe along the Lee alignment?

Pete
03-17-2014, 06:04 PM
I'm sure there is no parking deck to keep costs and rents down.

Even without it, they are squeezing 255 units into the same amount of land as Sycamore Square Condos or Apartments; each comprised of 58 units.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 06:07 PM
It's definitely an approach to land use that we haven't seen in this town. On multiple levels. Will take a while to digest. I'm initially a little troubled by the vast amount of surface parking, yet it has little negative impact on walkability or the neighborhood as it currently exists (and lots of positives on the two streets it fronts). It honestly is pretty clever.

Chadanth
03-17-2014, 06:09 PM
I'm sure there is no parking deck to keep costs and rents down.

Even without it, they are squeezing 255 units into the same amount of land as Sycamore Square Condos or Apartments; each comprised of 58 units.

I can see this filling quick. There really is a lack of downtown housing at a lower price point.

Pete
03-17-2014, 06:14 PM
In the future, it seems it would be easy to add a parking structure in the middle and add more buildings to the south and east borders.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 06:16 PM
In the future, it seems it would be easy to add a parking structure in the middle and add more buildings to the south and east borders.

That's what I was getting at.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 06:19 PM
I can see this filling quick. There really is a lack of downtown housing at a lower price point.

Which underscores what I was saying the other day about the Sycamore owners' ultimate goal of converting all 2 bedroom units to 1 br/efficiency units, which I still maintain would be lousy. Also makes my think they could infill even more units around SS and utilize the parking from this project, which would further downgrade SS compared to where it sits today.

Oh well, Andy Burnett's involvement in the project that is the subject of this thread could change my mind. He can't do much wrong as far as I can tell. Really like Hans' work too.

onthestrip
03-17-2014, 06:28 PM
Dang those are small units. And dang that is incredibly dense. And dang it only has surface parking for being so dense..?

That said, I may not have a problem with them. And I can see how packing them in tight like that can be hugely profitable, as spartan mentioned.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 06:29 PM
I see lots of IKEA vignettes!

Pete
03-17-2014, 06:37 PM
I really like the idea of aiming to offer something not already represented in the market.

There are plenty of people who would trade space for less rent. You just don't need that much stuff, especially if you are always out and about and enjoying everything the central city has to offer.


As a reminder, this is just a proposal. It has to be blessed by OCURA then, go through design review.

However, it seems to satisfy all of OCURA's requirements and meet the standards set forth by the Downtown Design Review Committee.


This is now the third project so I'll declare it a trend: 700 West, 10th & Shartel and the Metropolitan are all large housing projects funded almost exclusively by out-of-state developers.

We've seen outside investors for a while, but virtually everything that has come before these three project were done by locals.

Could represent the beginning of a shift towards lots more capital flowing in for development projects.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 06:44 PM
I think that is a good thing. Not knocking in-market developers, but in general they don't have much experience with urban infill. Even the better local developments (Level, for example) have had strong out-of-market influences.

Pete
03-17-2014, 06:52 PM
Yes, it took the passion and love of the community by the locals to even get us to this point. Quite a long list of those that have done great work, both restoration and new construction.

But there is still plenty of room for others and we still have lots of holes to fill.

tomokc
03-17-2014, 07:22 PM
I did research recently about ultra-dense housing like this and found that similar proposals had been turned down in Norman and Stillwater (although two were ultimately approved in Stillwater).

Does OKC have unit-per-acre density caps? Should it?

Plutonic Panda
03-17-2014, 07:31 PM
I did research recently about ultra-dense housing like this and found that similar proposals had been turned down in Norman and Stillwater (although two were ultimately approved in Stillwater).

Does OKC have unit-per-acre density caps? Should it?no way man

hoya
03-17-2014, 07:44 PM
I love it. You'll add a lot of young people who can't afford to live in some of the other areas. There'll be a huge influx of people there and that will really help that part of the city. It's got good urban design and the surface parking is something that can be remedied later. It's not that far from Midtown, and not too far a walk from where the streetcar will run. You wouldn't even really need a car at that point.

Spartan
03-17-2014, 07:58 PM
The surface parking is fine, completely hidden. The structure will still do a great job of framing the street.

Just the facts
03-17-2014, 08:02 PM
So far it looks pretty good to me and the parking seems to be all in the center of the block behind the structure with very little of it visible from the street. They should be able to hit a real good price point.

Pete
03-17-2014, 08:05 PM
If you look closely at the proposal, it calls for concrete drive areas but the parking spaces themselves -- more than half the parking lot area -- will be crushed and compacted granite.

It allows water to drain naturally, looks nicer, doesn't get baking hot in the summer and doesn't freeze and crack in the winter.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 08:09 PM
Is it allowed under current code? I suppose so if they proposed it, but frankly I'm surprised...

shawnw
03-17-2014, 08:23 PM
I like it. And while I don't reject it for this area, this is exactly the kind of thing that needs to occur in Bricktown and around old Central High for ACM and OCU Law students and service industry workers... (though probably with structured parking)

Just the facts
03-17-2014, 08:49 PM
I get the sense that the parking isn't intended to be permanet. The streetcar might be the anticipated mode of transportation.

Urbanized
03-17-2014, 08:52 PM
Yeah, it's still a wonderful project even if this is all there is, but you get the distinct feeling that this might be part of a larger plan.

ljbab728
03-17-2014, 11:19 PM
Steve's article about this.

Five-story apartments proposed for west downtown Oklahoma City arts district | News OK (http://newsok.com/five-story-apartments-proposed-for-west-downtown-oklahoma-city-arts-district/article/3944341)


A partnership consisting of the new owners of the Sycamore Square Apartments and local developer Andy Burnett is proposing to build a five-story, $23.4 million apartment complex at the southeast corner of NW 4 and Shartel.

Chadanth
03-18-2014, 05:37 AM
I like it. And while I don't reject it for this area, this is exactly the kind of thing that needs to occur in Bricktown and around old Central High for ACM and OCU Law students and service industry workers... (though probably with structured parking)

There are plenty of smaller blocks near the new OCU law school to do something similar. That would bring great life to the area.

Teo9969
03-18-2014, 07:12 AM
2 things bother me about this development, one only marginally and the other, fairly insignificantly:

Marginally, I wish the 1st floor were 2 to 4 feet taller with more emphasis on retail.

Insignificantly, the parking…not because it's surface, but because that means other solutions will have to be found in this area before anything can be built to fill out the lot. Not that there should HAVE to be, but knowing OKC, nothing will move forward until residents of this development have been assured they have parking during construction.

LakeEffect
03-18-2014, 07:14 AM
Is it allowed under current code? I suppose so if they proposed it, but frankly I'm surprised...

Not that I'm aware of. They'll have to get a variance. Hanz already has a test parking area that the Board of Adjustment allowed, but requires yearly reports on its effectiveness. I believe planning staff have tried to get this ordinance updated, but since it's regulated by other departments it hasn't moved...

Pete
03-18-2014, 07:18 AM
Didn't Chip Fudge use similar materials for the parking lot behind the Hart Building?

LakeEffect
03-18-2014, 07:20 AM
Didn't Chip Fudge use similar materials for the parking lot behind the Hart Building?

I believe he went through the same process, with Hanz. Hanz has become the de facto permeable paving specialist in OKC. :)

bchris02
03-18-2014, 07:25 AM
I agree. Surface parking is fine if hidden from view. This development does it right by having it in the back. The style is very different than anything we've seen, almost 1970s government looking.

Just the facts
03-18-2014, 07:44 AM
Neither 4th or Shartel will really be 'retail streets' so the lack of retail isn't such a big deal to me. They did at least put the retail on the corner and I love that they propose reducing both Shartel and 4th to two lanes and adding on street parking. Re-opening Lee would help get rid of another IM Pei superblock as well. There is way more to like in this plan than there is to dislike.

Might I suggest something like this for the retail space. It's prices will be sure to curry favor with the residents of this development and will probably be a favorite hangout.

http://www.mezzo-di-pasta.com/international/

Here is a good video that sums the place up

http://www.mezzo-di-pasta.com/international/fresh-pasta-restaurants/index.php?p=400#/what-is-mezzo/

On edit - scratch my retail comment as I forgot about the 15 'live/work units' that will line both Shartel and 4th. Couple those with on-street parking, 2 lanes of traffic, and a retail anchor at the corner and this area could have a very good commercial presence.

Spartan
03-18-2014, 07:58 AM
Upon reading the article it seems that Andy Burnett is leading this project, with outside investors... So is this really a case of outside money being smarter and more innovative? Come on.

Also I have ZERO concerns about the parking (I love the drainage solution), just don't care about what I can't see - but it also looks like restoring Lee through this block is part of the proposal. Will that be a public cost, if so what cost? I love reconnecting the grid through there, but the weird map on Newsok shows some jagged driveway that just skirts the Sycamore property line and isn't even flush with where Lee begins and ends. I hope they just straighten it out and meaningfully reconnect Lee. It will serve downtown well as this section of town has evidently become the next Deep Deuce.

I can't believe that the area around Sycamore has become such an area that every site is getting nabbed for developments.

warreng88
03-18-2014, 08:11 AM
I think that is a good thing. Not knocking in-market developers, but in general they don't have much experience with urban infill. Even the better local developments (Level, for example) have had strong out-of-market influences.

Not to completely correct you, but I wouldn't consider GFO an out of market developer. I guess I consider that kind of person someone who has no ties to OKC and is doing their first project here. GFO has at least three commercial properties for lease in the OKC metro area and a few other apartments complexes that I know of. I know they have offices in LA and San Fran, but they have multiple people working multiple deals in OKC as well.

Pete
03-18-2014, 08:29 AM
Not to completely correct you, but I wouldn't consider GFO an out of market developer. I guess I consider that kind of person someone who has no ties to OKC and is doing their first project here. GFO has at least three commercial properties for lease in the OKC metro area and a few other apartments complexes that I know of. I know they have offices in LA and San Fran, but they have multiple people working multiple deals in OKC as well.

Right, but only because they are concentrating on Oklahoma City as an investment.

Their principals -- the people with the money -- are in Los Angeles.

Mississippi Blues
05-20-2014, 12:40 PM
Has anything new been said about this? I know nothing has been released publicly other than what we see here, but I don't know what or if anything is being said about it behind the scenes.

Pete
05-20-2014, 12:47 PM
It's moving through the process.

Has been approved by OCURA and then will have to go to design review, then file building permits.

Mississippi Blues
05-20-2014, 12:51 PM
Awesome. Thanks, Pete!

OKCisOK4me
05-20-2014, 08:43 PM
It's moving through the process.

Has been approved by OCURA and then will have to go to design review, then file building permits.

I keep forgetting about this project. Exciting. Where in that process is the Metropolitan?

Teo9969
05-20-2014, 10:03 PM
2 things bother me about this development, one only marginally and the other, fairly insignificantly:

Marginally, I wish the 1st floor were 2 to 4 feet taller with more emphasis on retail.

Insignificantly, the parking…not because it's surface, but because that means other solutions will have to be found in this area before anything can be built to fill out the lot. Not that there should HAVE to be, but knowing OKC, nothing will move forward until residents of this development have been assured they have parking during construction.

Dude, what a silly comment. Did you not pay any attention to the original article??!! They're live-in/work units with doors to the outside that most likely can be made accessible to pedestrians walking by…You should probably read before you post...

Teo9969
05-20-2014, 10:06 PM
Dude, what a silly comment. Did you not pay any attention to the original article??!! They're live-in/work units with doors to the outside that most likely can be made accessible to pedestrians walking by…You should probably read before you post...

Whoa man, you're right, my bad, but maybe you could calm down just a bit? It's just a forum with all of us putting out random ideas and I was probably preoccupied at the time I made the post.

Anyway, overall I think this will be a fantastic addition to the neighborhood, and I really am excited to see what comes out of these live/work units produce. Specifically, I'd love to know what they cost and if the whole unit could be written off for tax-purposes, cause that would be SUHWEEEET!!!!

Teo9969
05-21-2014, 10:27 AM
Guys, we're getting off topic.

Does anybody know if the whole the live/work unit could be tax-deductible? That would make starting a business so much easier, especially like starting a small art studio or music teaching studio. If those rents were $1800 but entirely tax deductible, that's a huge incentive to start something.

This would instantly become my favorite living development if they find a way to make these live/work units something that interacts with the outside world. Such a huge opportunity for the Arts District to blossom into…you know…an Arts District

Pete
05-21-2014, 10:36 AM
^

You can deduct your home office / workspace on your taxes.

Just the percentage used for exclusively for work.

Jeepnokc
05-21-2014, 10:39 AM
Guys, we're getting off topic.

Does anybody know if the whole the live/work unit could be tax-deductible? That would make starting a business so much easier, especially like starting a small art studio or music teaching studio. If those rents were $1800 but entirely tax deductible, that's a huge incentive to start something.

This would instantly become my favorite living development if they find a way to make these live/work units something that interacts with the outside world. Such a huge opportunity for the Arts District to blossom into…you know…an Arts District

I am not a CPA nor a tax attorney but I do not think you could take the whole amount as a deduction. It would be split. Similar to having a home office, you can take a portion of rent, utilities, etc but not the whole amount.

Pete
05-21-2014, 10:41 AM
^

Correct.

You calculate the percentage of space used exclusively for business, then take that percentage of rent and utilities.

Teo9969
05-21-2014, 11:14 AM
I'm aware of that…

But these seem to be fundamentally different…so much so that I'm wondering how OKC is going to zone them. Will it be okay for them to run a business from the unit? Can a tenant have a studio in which they charge entrance fees, sell their art, sell basic beverages (that don't need a food license), etc. Could they house an insurance agency, law firm or Jeweler here? It's all technically one-unit, but if it's zoned residential, what would be the scope available for running business.