View Full Version : No Chickens Yet



Pages : [1] 2 3

ljbab728
12-31-2013, 11:57 PM
As someone who grew up on a farm with a lot of chickens, I totally agree with this.

Urban agriculture proposals advance at Oklahoma City Council, but chickens are left behind | News OK (http://newsok.com/urban-agriculture-proposals-advance-at-oklahoma-city-council-but-chickens-are-left-behind/article/3919515)

They just don't belong in small urban areas.

kevinpate
01-01-2014, 06:33 AM
Eggcited about chickens in your neighbor's yard?

Don't be. Turns out council just doesn't give a cluck.

LakeEffect
01-01-2014, 02:28 PM
As someone who grew up on a farm with a lot of chickens, I totally agree with this.

Urban agriculture proposals advance at Oklahoma City Council, but chickens are left behind | News OK (http://newsok.com/urban-agriculture-proposals-advance-at-oklahoma-city-council-but-chickens-are-left-behind/article/3919515)

They just don't belong in small urban areas.

Why?

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 02:30 PM
Once again, Shadid proves how he cannot get anything accomplished. This was his cause celebre and he only got two votes? Anyone considering voting for him for mayor please look at his record, not his rhetoric. He has no clue how to build consensus for an issue and get it passed.

bradh
01-01-2014, 02:38 PM
Is this really something that would help the poor? I'm sorry but most of the poor people I see don't look like the types that would properly raise and process their own livestock to save money.

Garin
01-01-2014, 03:40 PM
Goats might be a good fit they could keep the yard mowed at least.... Don't you have to feed chickens? Could they buy feed with their snap cards?

Tier2City
01-01-2014, 03:46 PM
Once again, Shadid proves how he cannot get anything accomplished. This was his cause celebre and he only got two votes? Anyone considering voting for him for mayor please look at his record, not his rhetoric. He has no clue how to build consensus for an issue and get it passed.

Doesn't matter. As with the previous Streetcar controversy and the upcoming Convention Center rally, it's a good wedge issue to define the campaign and get the base out. These defeats clearly show why there must be a new mayor who will be able to make more diverse appointments to council.

Jim Kyle
01-01-2014, 03:51 PM
there must be a new mayor who will be able to make more diverse appointments to council.What a wonderful understanding of local civics! And here I thought those danged council members were elected, not appointed...

Tier2City
01-01-2014, 04:01 PM
What a wonderful understanding of local civics! And here I thought those danged council members were elected, not appointed...

Let me know if you also want a wonderful understanding of what drives corporate relocations. Or rather, some magical thinking on what drives corporate relocations.

kevinpate
01-01-2014, 04:18 PM
Doesn't matter. ... it's a good wedge issue ...

Maybe that's where they blew it? Maybe if they'd talked about chickens and tater wedges, they would have nailed down more votes.
Eggs are good, but wings and taters ... yum ... yum.

Urban Pioneer
01-01-2014, 05:07 PM
lol

hoya
01-01-2014, 05:38 PM
Doesn't matter. As with the previous Streetcar controversy and the upcoming Convention Center rally, it's a good wedge issue to define the campaign and get the base out. These defeats clearly show why there must be a new mayor who will be able to make more diverse appointments to council.

I feel like I just walked into the Twilight Zone.

mkjeeves
01-01-2014, 06:01 PM
I don't really have a cock in this fight but... the surge around the country of backyard chickens is part of the local food movement. That's so far removed from the norm of most OKC residents I can see why it didn't get passed but I am surprised some of the progressives on this forum didn't/don't apparently support it.

betts
01-01-2014, 06:17 PM
I'm in favor of urban chickens, although I do think there needs to be some regulation. I would have gone to council to speak in favor of coming up with guidelines, but I had a drs. appointment I did not want to miss. There's enough animal mistreatment in this state to be careful of precisely what we approve. The fact that it didn't pass perhaps shows that proponents came unprepared with a proposal people could approve, or perhaps councilors got a lot of negative response in their wards. If not, it may show an inability to build a coalition on the part of proponents.

LandRunOkie
01-01-2014, 06:22 PM
There always have been and always will be urban chickens in this city. A few windbags on the council isn't going to change that. They should try explaining why they want to take away people's rights, rather than leaving Shadid to point out the obvious, that it's good eatin' for people who need/want it.

mkjeeves
01-01-2014, 06:23 PM
I'm in favor of urban chickens, although I do think there needs to be some regulation. I would have gone to council to speak in favor of coming up with guidelines, but I had a drs. appointment I did not want to miss. There's enough animal mistreatment in this state to be careful of precisely what we approve. The fact that it didn't pass perhaps shows that proponents came unprepared with a proposal people could approve, or perhaps councilors got a lot of negative response in their wards. If not, it may show an inability to build a coalition on the part of proponents.



All of the above. Plenty willing to do what's wrong for political sake as well.

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 06:24 PM
Doesn't matter. As with the previous Streetcar controversy and the upcoming Convention Center rally, it's a good wedge issue to define the campaign and get the base out. These defeats clearly show why there must be a new mayor who will be able to make more diverse appointments to council.

Say again? The mayor does not appoint council members.

Tier2City
01-01-2014, 06:34 PM
Say again? The mayor does not appoint council members.

Surely you know that the Mayor runs everything? Ok, well maybe you're not quite that low-information, but surely you know that the Mayor makes all the appointments to all city bodies? This city can be changed overnight if we just have a different Mayor, especially if that person is engaged and not checked out. Plus lots of companies will then want to relocate here if we have a different Mayor.

Jim Kyle
01-01-2014, 06:43 PM
Surely you know that the Mayor runs everything? Ok, well maybe you're not quite that low-information, but surely you know that the Mayor makes all the appointments to all city bodies? This city can be changed overnight if we just have a different Mayor, especially if that person is engaged and not checked out. Plus lots of companies will then want to relocate here if we have a different Mayor.I do believe that I owe you an apology. It seems that your tongue was so far back in your cheek with that initial post that I failed to see that it was there!

My belated congratulations on the best riposte I've seen this year!!!

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 06:48 PM
Surely you know that the Mayor runs everything? Ok, well maybe you're not quite that low-information, but surely you know that the Mayor makes all the appointments to all city bodies? This city can be changed overnight if we just have a different Mayor, especially if that person is engaged and not checked out. Plus lots of companies will then want to relocate here if we have a different Mayor.

Ha ha. Sorry. Sarcasm meter was dialed to the "OFF" position. You never know on this board.

Tier2City
01-01-2014, 07:06 PM
Ha ha. Sorry. Sarcasm meter was dialed to the "OFF" position. You never know on this board.

Frightening to think how many other progressives will be easily fooled.

Urban Pioneer
01-01-2014, 07:10 PM
Will be and/or are.

Noting that Shadid could only pull with White on this issue. He couldn't even convince Greiner to vote for it.

LandRunOkie
01-01-2014, 07:49 PM
It seems many of you are still caught up on Ed so maybe I can lay an issue to rest: Ed Shadid will probably not be mayor of Oklahoma City. Instead of obsessing over a person who is actually working pretty hard to improve the city, maybe you should do your part. Put your fears, whether or not they happen to be racially motivated, aside so the real issues can be addressed. How many of you are actually in favor of banning chickens in this, one of the poorest cities in the country?

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 07:49 PM
Will be and/or are.

Noting that Shadid could only pull with White on this issue. He couldn't even convince Greiner to vote for it.

This is the kind of ineffectual leadership OKC needs. Seriously, though, if you have a pet issue or something you want to happen, Ed Shadid's stamp of approval is the kiss of death for whatever you want.

Tier2City
01-01-2014, 07:59 PM
This is the kind of ineffectual leadership OKC needs. Seriously, though, if you have a pet issue or something you want to happen, Ed Shadid's stamp of approval is the kiss of death for whatever you want.

Ed may have been working hard to improve the city but he has certainly worked hard to annoy most of Council. So the converse is if he's against something it'll go through fine. Even if aspects of the convention center and hotel are not ideal, meaningful constructive scrutiny and oversight won't happen now. But that's good leadership, I guess.

bradh
01-01-2014, 07:59 PM
It seems many of you are still caught up on Ed so maybe I can lay an issue to rest: Ed Shadid will probably not be mayor of Oklahoma City. Instead of obsessing over a person who is actually working pretty hard to improve the city, maybe you should do your part. Put your fears, whether or not they happen to be racially motivated, aside so the real issues can be addressed. How many of you are actually in favor of banning chickens in this, one of the poorest cities in the country?

Who's saying race has anything to do with it? Oh, or is that just the card you play?

For the record, I have no problem with urban chickens, but there does need to be some regulation.

betts
01-01-2014, 08:34 PM
It seems many of you are still caught up on Ed so maybe I can lay an issue to rest: Ed Shadid will probably not be mayor of Oklahoma City. Instead of obsessing over a person who is actually working pretty hard to improve the city, maybe you should do your part. Put your fears, whether or not they happen to be racially motivated, aside so the real issues can be addressed. How many of you are actually in favor of banning chickens in this, one of the poorest cities in the country?

Racially motivated? What race? I'm in favor of urban chickens, recognizing that some people will probably not follow whatever legal guidelines the city establishes. There will be abuses and that may cause problems for neighbors of the chicken owners. But in general, I don't think it is a bad thing.

PennyQuilts
01-01-2014, 08:34 PM
I'm planning to get some chickens this spring. 5-6 hens. The new law doesn't impact my plans one way or the other because we are in a semi rural part of town. Love the local/urban food movement but I do worry about dumb*sses who will end up hurting animals out of ignorance or cluelessness.

I don't know a thing about chickens and hope I don't end up falling into that category. Been researching.

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 08:43 PM
it seems many of you are still caught up on ed so maybe i can lay an issue to rest: ed shadid will probably not be mayor of oklahoma city. Instead of obsessing over a person who is actually working pretty hard to improve the city, maybe you should do your part. Put your fears, whether or not they happen to be racially motivated, aside so the real issues can be addressed. How many of you are actually in favor of banning chickens in this, one of the poorest cities in the country?

wtf?

adaniel
01-01-2014, 08:49 PM
One could easily get some acreage in this city for raising chickens and other livestock, so I don't blame the council for not rushing into this. And while yes there is a very strong local food movement both nationally and locally, it is quite a leap from growing a vegetable garden or shopping at a farmers market to raising a living, breathing animal. And then there are stories like this, increasing in frequency:

Urban Farmers Abandoning Hundreds of Fashion Chickens (http://jezebel.com/urban-farmers-abandoning-hundreds-of-fashion-chickens-707781735)

Not saying this is a fad, but I think a lot of people have/are rushing into this. I would be in favor of a pilot program or a strict permitting process that allows for some level of regulation.

betts
01-01-2014, 09:06 PM
One could easily get some acreage in this city for raising chickens and other livestock, so I don't blame the council for not rushing into this. And while yes there is a very strong local food movement both nationally and locally, it is quite a leap from growing a vegetable garden or shopping at a farmers market to raising a living, breathing animal. And then there are stories like this, increasing in frequency:

Urban Farmers Abandoning Hundreds of Fashion Chickens (http://jezebel.com/urban-farmers-abandoning-hundreds-of-fashion-chickens-707781735)

Not saying this is a fad, but I think a lot of people have/are rushing into this. I would be in favor of a pilot program or a strict permitting process that allows for some level of regulation.

I knew it was just a matter of time until we had to have chicken rescue foundations. Of course, my grandmother just made chicken and dumplings from hens that had stopped laying. Having witnessed the demise and subsequently having to pluck a few chickens, yard to table is not for the faint of heart,

LandRunOkie
01-01-2014, 09:06 PM
One could easily get some acreage in this city for raising chickens and other livestock, so I don't blame the council for not rushing into this.

Acreages in the city are very expensive. If someone needs to raise chickens to eat they probably don't have the money. You shouldn't have to go into extreme debt to stay legal with your effort to feed your family.


And while yes there is a very strong local food movement both nationally and locally, it is quite a leap from growing a vegetable garden or shopping at a farmers market to raising a living, breathing animal.
Not saying this is a fad, but I think a lot of people have/are rushing into this. I would be in favor of a pilot program or a strict permitting process that allows for some level of regulation.
Many people have toy dogs that make much more noise than chickens. PS the government can't save you and they don't want to. People have the right to grow their own food. As far as abandoned chickens, I guess many just don't have the heart for "chicken soup".

bradh
01-01-2014, 09:15 PM
Who are the people really clamoring for this? Local food/sustainability folks, or truly poverty stricken who would like to self supply? I'd better most of the support is the former, and the latter is just an argument to try and garner more support. I could be wrong though, because to me, I'd think the time/effort/money in raising your own chickens properly might actually be MORE expensive in the long run.

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 09:16 PM
So what happens to the chickens when people don't take care of them? We live in a neighborhood close to an area people dump unwanted dogs. I'm not crazy about the idea of chickens being dumped and / or killed by other animals in my neighborhood due to irresponsible owners.

Now, why do politics matter, LandRunOkie? It's because without the ability to get policy passed, a politician is worthless. You claim Ed is "working hard to improve our city." And yet, there's no tangible evidence of success. So far I've seen him try to blow up one voter-approved MAPS project (and fail), and he's in the process of trying to blow up another one.

Then, he takes this laudable issue, one I might be inclined to support, and he rushes it before council without securing votes for passage. I spoke to a supporter of Ed's and he actually told her this would only get two votes. So he knew this thing was doomed and ran it anyway. That speaks volumes about this guy: he doesn't really care if it passes, he's just hoping to gain some mileage out of it in the mayoral race. So, yes, politics matter.

PennyQuilts
01-01-2014, 09:31 PM
I suppose you could get a chicken rescue but I don't see it being widespread. As I understand it, hens lay eggs for 1-2 years and then quit. Back in the farm days, they'd then go into the pot but I am not sure what people will do, these days. Given that these are livestock, I just don't see finding many homes for barren hens running around needing to be fed and cared for for several years.

LandRunOkie
01-01-2014, 09:38 PM
Who are the people really clamoring for this? I'd think the time/effort/money in raising your own chickens properly might actually be MORE expensive in the long run.
Clamoring? Someone asked why more people weren't interested in this so I gave my opinion. I've not raised them but would look forward to the opportunity.

trousers
01-01-2014, 09:46 PM
I think you will have a lot of people that think that this is a really cool idea but once they actually get involved they will learn some new appreciation for the middleman, AKA the butcher.

bradh
01-01-2014, 09:47 PM
Clamoring? Someone asked why more people weren't interested in this so I gave my opinion. I've not raised them but would look forward to the opportunity.

You acted like passage of this would be some savior to poor people. I'm wanting to know if they even give a rats about this.

adaniel
01-01-2014, 09:50 PM
I knew it was just a matter of time until we had to have chicken rescue foundations. Of course, my grandmother just made chicken and dumplings from hens that had stopped laying. Having witnessed the demise and subsequently having to pluck a few chickens, yard to table is not for the faint of heart,

Its interesting to read the comments in the story I linked. People don't want to kill them as they view them as pets. Um...no, your "pet" is the same thing you get extra crispy at KFC.


Acreages in the city are very expensive. If someone needs to raise chickens to eat they probably don't have the money. You shouldn't have to go into extreme debt to stay legal with your effort to feed your family.

Many people have toy dogs that make much more noise than chickens. PS the government can't save you and they don't want to. People have the right to grow their own food. As far as abandoned chickens, I guess many just don't have the heart for "chicken soup".

Unless you plan on buying land behind Gaillardia, acreage in OKC is not expensive, especially if you are away from the main growth corridors. You can buy land out in the NE part of the city for under 20k an acre, which is less than going rate for a lot in a normal subdivision. No its not the most glamorous part of town but its doable. And frankly you will need a significant parcel of land if you plan on supplementing even a small portion of a family's diet with what is home grown/raised. It cannot be done on a typical city lot.



Who are the people really clamoring for this? Local food/sustainability folks, or truly poverty stricken who would like to self supply? I'd better most of the support is the former, and the latter is just an argument to try and garner more support.

I tend to agree with this. Its admirable that people are focusing on poverty and hunger in this state but this seems like an afterthought. When the council rejected this, the reaction on social media was, "well other cool cities like Portland and Brooklyn are doing this, blah blah blah." Nothing about hunger....

Jim Kyle
01-01-2014, 10:00 PM
I don't know a thing about chickens and hope I don't end up falling into that category. Been researching.During WW2, my family kept a flock of chickens for the eggs. As I recall, it was a highly odorous operation. Much much later, I had a bit more experience with them: my wife's grandparents kept a very small flock, half a dozen or so, in a small pen in their backyard located in the 500 block of SE 19. Again, it was primarily for the eggs, but they did on occasion bake an old hen. Again, the odor wasn't very pleasant, but with such a small flock it wasn't overpowering either.

Unless folk provide some sort of enclosure for them, quite a few predators just love freshly killed chicken. In California, my pet dog fell into that category, and had to go once we discovered her taste for them (she was a pointer mix, and wound up with the USMC at Camp Pendleton). In these parts, owls, large hawks, coyotes, and even skunks can be added to the list. Urban chicken-keeping is NOT an attractive option for the truly poverty-stricken, nor for the extremely affluent either.

I do believe, though, that it's better to have a regulation or ordinance on the books than it is to let such questions go totally unaddressed. And why single out chickens? How about ducks, geese, turkeys, and pigeons, all of whom exhibit most of the same attributes that caused the council to reject chickens...

Urban Pioneer
01-01-2014, 10:05 PM
It seems many of you are still caught up on Ed so maybe I can lay an issue to rest: Ed Shadid will probably not be mayor of Oklahoma City. Instead of obsessing over a person who is actually working pretty hard to improve the city, maybe you should do your part. Put your fears, whether or not they happen to be racially motivated, aside so the real issues can be addressed. How many of you are actually in favor of banning chickens in this, one of the poorest cities in the country?

What a load of BS.

LandRunOkie
01-01-2014, 10:07 PM
You can buy land out in the NE part of the city for under 20k an acre, which is less than going rate for a lot in a normal subdivision. Frankly you will need a significant parcel of land if you plan on supplementing even a small portion of a family's diet with what is home grown/raised. It cannot be done on a typical city lot.

The value of urban lots is that you can commute to work by transit or bike/walk.
Yes with proper care a quarter acre lot can provide a very helpful addition to the family diet. Chicken and rabbit droppings double as a great low-odor fertilizer. I have gardened several years and what I grow is better tasting food than I can afford.



I tend to agree with this. Its admirable that people are focusing on poverty and hunger in this state but this seems like an afterthought.
Well as I said in another thread the unemployment rate is over 14% (u6). Returning to farming the land is possibly the most productive choice for a lot of people.

ljbab728
01-01-2014, 10:12 PM
Why?

As I said, I grew up on a farm. For most of that time we had "free range" chickens that could go anywhere. For a few years we had a fairly large operation with many chickens kept in cages all of the time. There is absolutely an odor that comes from either and they attract predators for both the eggs and the chickens themselves. Our hen houses were never near our house for very good reasons.

LandRunOkie
01-01-2014, 10:26 PM
I doubt the city would even enforce a ban on chickens. They just missed a chance to do the right thing. There are already public nuisance codes, they shouldn't ban chickens wholesale. Thanks to Ed for maintaining some sanity on the council.

ljbab728
01-01-2014, 10:34 PM
I doubt the city would even enforce a ban on chickens. They just missed a chance to do the right thing. There are already public nuisance codes, they shouldn't ban chickens wholesale. Thanks to Ed for maintaining some sanity on the council.

Or not.

soonerguru
01-01-2014, 10:46 PM
I doubt the city would even enforce a ban on chickens. They just missed a chance to do the right thing. There are already public nuisance codes, they shouldn't ban chickens wholesale. Thanks to Ed for maintaining some sanity on the council.

And he did this by FAILING. Wow. impressive.

kevinpate
01-02-2014, 12:31 AM
Harland Sanders Home for Wayward Hens - rescuing homeless and barren birds for over seven decades

OKCinsomniac
01-02-2014, 01:36 AM
This is/was a purely political move to try to play to the hipster faction. Most people that try raising chickens because they think it's a cool thing to do soon get sick of eggs and the hens in general. My guess is the poor don't give a crap about raising chickens when they can use SNAP to get eggs at the store if they want...

BBatesokc
01-02-2014, 04:12 AM
Personally, I'm all for urban chickens. I know several people who have a few hens (illegally) and it has never been an issue for them. That said, I don't buy the reasoning that its needed for 'the poor to put food on their table.' To me the reasons are much more obvious, realistic and easier to understand;

1.) The city shouldn't have the right to tell us we can't.
2.) Many people like to raise hens simply because they just like doing it.
3.) The eggs and meat are a plus, but not mandatory or even a economically smart way to 'feed the poor.'

PennyQuilts
01-02-2014, 12:18 PM
The way I look at it, I love eggs but since hens only lay for awhile and then quit (and then sometimes live years longer), I better be prepared to eat them when they get older or keep them as pets for their lifespan. I just don't see myself eating a chicken I've given a name to so, for me, the chickens would have to be pets and treated accordingly. And that means being prepared to take care of them for a long time. I've spoken to people who raise chickens. If they told me chickens were nasty, expensive and a waste of time beyond food, I wouldn't consider getting one. My experience, however, is that they seem to have an almost unhealthy affection for them. You can't get them to stop talking about their chickens and some put photos of them on their Christmas cards.

Where do I sign up?

kevinpate
01-02-2014, 12:59 PM
... I just don't see myself eating a chicken I've given a name to so, for me, the chickens would have to be pets ...

Just my small town raisin' I suppose. Once you realize Christmas still comes even though you've really enjoyed some Dasherstew and Prancerloaf, and Ms. Kersey can turn the blackberries she had you pick into a cobbler to cry over it's so good, and even when some Betty chicken disappears, another takes her place, it all just seems so normal.

But yeah there are limits for some, even if the critters don't have names. I'll never forget Pops pulling up to a (back then) shack of a BBQ place in SE OK and Pop's best friend decided he wasn't hungry after all. Now this place normally had several dogs hanging around outside, but not this time; not a pup to be seen anywhere. Turned out Pop's buddy was really, really troubled by the fact the ever present dogs were not there and just could not bring himself to order anything. Oh, how Pops loved to retell that story over the years (and he wasn't the only one.)

PennyQuilts
01-02-2014, 01:15 PM
Omg!!

RadicalModerate
01-02-2014, 01:44 PM
Personally, I'm all for urban chickens. I know several people who have a few hens (illegally) and it has never been an issue for them. That said, I don't buy the reasoning that its needed for 'the poor to put food on their table.' To me the reasons are much more obvious, realistic and easier to understand;

1.) The city shouldn't have the right to tell us we can't.
2.) Many people like to raise hens simply because they just like doing it.
3.) The eggs and meat are a plus, but not mandatory or even a economically smart way to 'feed the poor.'

Maybe if there was a compromise allowing urbane chickens, everyone would be happy, happy, happy.
(i'm picturing something along the lines of the original New Yorker cover, except with a chicken instead of a fop under the top hat)

RadicalModerate
01-02-2014, 01:49 PM
. . . I just don't see myself eating a chicken I've given a name to . . .

How 'bout if you named them things like, "Original Recipe" . . . "Extra Crispy" . . . "2 Be Broiled" . . . "Mrs. Fryer" . . . "Fryer Tuck" . . . "In The Rough" . . . "McNuggets" . . .

kevinpate
01-02-2014, 02:00 PM
Omg!!

What can I say? Prancer shoulda zigged when he zagged.

PennyQuilts
01-02-2014, 04:08 PM
How 'bout if you named them things like, "Original Recipe" . . . "Extra Crispy" . . . "2 Be Broiled" . . . "Mrs. Fryer" . . . "Fryer Tuck" . . . "In The Rough" . . . "McNuggets" . . .

My best friend, a rancher, was devastated when they butchered the first calf she'd raised. After that, she named them Supper, Dinner, etc. :)

RadicalModerate
01-02-2014, 05:17 PM
Chickens give us eggs--well, they don't exactly give them to us--yet, with the strides that are being made in genetic engineering, why don't we have chickens that also provide little hams, sausage and bacon for when their egg-laying days are over?

How long will we have to settle only for this?
http://www.peacebang.com/wp-content/uploads/boneless-chicken-ranch.jpg

I'd name one of those chickens "Floppsie" . . .
If I had a ham and bacon provider, I might name it "Porky".

So a travelling salesman went to a farmhouse and noticed a one-legged chicken out in the yard.
He asked the farmer what the story was. The farmer told him that the chicken was the greatest chicken in the world. He told the salesman how the chicken once woke the family up and saved them from a fire . . . How it rescued one of the children from drowning in the pond . . . and how it fought off a rabid wolf. The salesman was impressed, but said, "That still doesn't explain the one-leg deal."

The farmer replied, "You don't eat a chicken that special all at once."

Garin
01-02-2014, 06:55 PM
Nashville Tennessee has urban chickens went into law today.

Mel
01-02-2014, 07:02 PM
Urban chicken coops don't have to take up that much space. 5730

boscorama
01-02-2014, 08:30 PM
My city friend named her cow Ribeye.