View Full Version : SIAP: Off-duty OHP trooper kills would-be burglar in Deep Deuce



no1cub17
12-27-2013, 08:04 PM
Suspect Killed After Attempted Home Invasion In Deep Deuce - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/24317002/suspect-killed-after-attempted-home-invasion-in-deep-deuce)

Well then. Definitely makes me feel better to know a cop lives right down the street.

Chadanth
12-27-2013, 08:10 PM
Suspect Killed After Attempted Home Invasion In Deep Deuce - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/24317002/suspect-killed-after-attempted-home-invasion-in-deep-deuce)

Well then. Definitely makes me feel better to know a cop lives right down the street.

Right down the street from me. Something tells me there's more to this story, this isn't really a "random home invasion" neighborhood.

Also, you'd probably be surprised how many law enforcement live in the neighborhood.

no1cub17
12-27-2013, 08:14 PM
Right down the street from me. Something tells me there's more to this story, this isn't really a "random home invasion" neighborhood.

Also, you'd probably be surprised how many law enforcement live in the neighborhood.

I'd like to think so too since I also live here. Definitely glad I have a somewhat secure garage to park in - not that those can't be broken into.

Chadanth
12-27-2013, 09:07 PM
Right down the street from me. Something tells me there's more to this story, this isn't really a "random home invasion" neighborhood.

Also, you'd probably be surprised how many law enforcement live in the neighborhood.

Seeing the news, it looks fairly straightforward. I'll retract my statement.

Achilleslastand
12-27-2013, 09:17 PM
Dead offenders can never be repeat offenders........

gjl
12-27-2013, 09:27 PM
Shouldn't he have just gone out on the balcony with a 12 gauge shot gun and fired off a couple of blasts? Then whoever is coming in is not going to.

kevinpate
12-28-2013, 06:15 AM
Don't cut on superman's cape
Don't spit into the wind
Don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And cop's garages ya don't break in

tomokc
12-28-2013, 07:44 AM
Shouldn't he have just gone out on the balcony with a 12 gauge shot gun and fired off a couple of blasts? Then whoever is coming in is not going to.

Warning shots are fired in movies and on TV, but not IRW by people who know. You fire at the threat with intent to kill, not to warn, not to wound. Period.

Garin
12-28-2013, 08:03 AM
Shouldn't he have just gone out on the balcony with a 12 gauge shot gun and fired off a couple of blasts? Then whoever is coming in is not going to.

The Biden way.

mkjeeves
12-28-2013, 08:25 AM
Did the person gain entry or was he still outside the house attempting to break in? Shot from inside the house?

RadicalModerate
12-28-2013, 08:27 AM
"According to police reports of the incident, the officer fired a warning shot . . . into the center of the burglar's chest. It wasn't a warning shot for the perpetrator of the crime in question but to those who might be considering copycat crimes."

Chadanth
12-28-2013, 08:36 AM
Did the person gain entry or was he still outside the house attempting to break in? Shot from inside the house?

From what I saw on the news, the altercation started in the officer'a attached garage and the shooting occurred inside the apartment.

gjl
12-28-2013, 08:44 AM
Warning shots are fired in movies and on TV, but not IRW by people who know. You fire at the threat with intent to kill, not to warn, not to wound. Period.

You must have missed Joe Biden's advice.

RadicalModerate
12-28-2013, 08:54 AM
You must have missed Joe Biden's advice.

Perhaps you missed Post #9? =)
I'll sure miss Joe Biden when he's gone . . .
(the DP surely wouldn't consider nominating him for President . . . yet stranger things have happened)

no1cub17
12-28-2013, 09:28 AM
I've heard through the grapevine that the suspect in this case may have also been involved in an attempted kidnapping/robbery at Central Avenue Villas earlier yesterday morning. If so, good riddance.

gjl
12-28-2013, 09:47 AM
Perhaps you missed Post #9? =)
I'll sure miss Joe Biden when he's gone . . .
(the DP surely wouldn't consider nominating him for President . . . yet stranger things have happened)

No I didn't. Can I not reply to the member that quoted me?

kevinpate
12-28-2013, 11:43 AM
Pellets and projectiles shot into the air will not dissolve. They do land somewhere. May not do major harm, but any harm done, you're responsible for it.

It's really quite simple. If you fire a weapon, hit what you mean to hit. If you only intend to aim at the sky, load only blanks.

Or better yet, leave real firearms to others and get yourself a somewhat noisy water pistol.

Warning shots ... maybe for the nerf gun crowd, but they don't belong in real life situations.

GaryOKC6
12-28-2013, 12:14 PM
Did the person gain entry or was he still outside the house attempting to break in? Shot from inside the house?

Once he breached the perimeter of the house (could include the garage depending on the way the condo is built) the intruder can be shot. If someone removes your screen off of the window they have breeched the perimeter of your house and are considered a threat.

Garin
12-28-2013, 12:46 PM
When I took my cc class the attorney that spoke to the class also included that covered porches counted as part of your home. I had always thought they had to breech the home or garage before shooting....he challenged on it and stood by his statement. I never did check it out to see if that was the case.

mkjeeves
12-28-2013, 01:50 PM
I was less concerned with letter of the law than if a trained OHP had used deadly force as the first response to what was billed as an attempted breakin. It sounds like he may not have. As far as the law goes and what I remember from cc class, the primary fact has to be if you feared great bodily injury or death.

MustangGT
12-28-2013, 03:45 PM
The scum place a trooper in fear of his/her life. No loss to society. We are better off the trooper dispatched the bum.

kevinpate
12-28-2013, 04:38 PM
With respect, the news report I heard was the trooper and he who makes bad choices first met in the garage and then they were inside the home proper. At that time the trooper put an end to the chap's ability for making bad choices.

If he didn't yell boo first, or encourage Mr. Bad Choices to rethink and reflect on what he was doing, or didn't offer him some form of small compensation if he'd just leave and not come back, well, I am ok with that. If you enter someone's home with bad intent, bad things are likely to happen. For some, merely trying to enter doesn't end well. Should of stayed home.

Dustin
12-28-2013, 05:03 PM
And this months Darwin Award goes to....

bluedogok
12-28-2013, 05:45 PM
With respect, the news report I heard was the trooper and he who makes bad choices first met in the garage and then they were inside the home proper. At that time the trooper put an end to the chap's ability for making bad choices.

If he didn't yell boo first, or encourage Mr. Bad Choices to rethink and reflect on what he was doing, or didn't offer him some form of small compensation if he's just leave and not come back, well, I am ok with that. If you enter someone's home with bad intent, bad things are likely to happen. For some, merely trying to enter doesn't end well. Should of stayed home.
Similar to what I heard, the perp pulled a gun on the trooper in the garage as the trooper arrived home, in effect "forcing" him inside the house in order to rob him. While inside the house the trooper was then able to retrieve his weapon and shot him.

no1cub17
12-28-2013, 07:48 PM
Hopefully this is just a one-off incident. Last thing we need is for crime to pick up in downtown.

kevinpate
12-29-2013, 06:06 AM
There no real shortage as it is, but I agree it would be sad to see a strong uptick. But as more and more bodies inhabit 24/7, it is likely to happen. Crime follows opportunities. It usually doesn't sit and hope an opportunity presents itself.

BBatesokc
12-29-2013, 06:40 AM
A woman was apparently accosted in the the 444 North Central Ave. parking garage the same day. Heard this from a friend who owns a large condo there.

Chadanth
12-29-2013, 07:44 AM
A woman was apparently accosted in the the 444 North Central Ave. parking garage the same day. Heard this from a friend who owns a large condo there.

The police were saying they believe it was the same guy.

Urbanized
12-29-2013, 01:35 PM
Nice hat!

Achilleslastand
12-29-2013, 04:20 PM
Don't cut on superman's cape
Don't spit into the wind
Don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And cop's garages ya don't break in

I always thought it was "ya don't tug on superman's cape".

RadicalModerate
12-29-2013, 04:35 PM
I always thought it was "ya don't tug on superman's cape".

Poetic License, Amigo. (geezfercryinoutloud . . . =)

kevinpate
12-29-2013, 06:28 PM
I always thought it was "ya don't tug on superman's cape".

Oops. What can I say ... some memories from the 70's are less crystal than others.

Zuplar
12-30-2013, 08:00 AM
When I took my cc class the attorney that spoke to the class also included that covered porches counted as part of your home. I had always thought they had to breech the home or garage before shooting....he challenged on it and stood by his statement. I never did check it out to see if that was the case.

If your life is in danger, you can pull the trigger. Doesn't really matter where you are, as long as its not a place where firearms are prohibited.

BBatesokc
12-30-2013, 10:36 AM
If your life is in danger, you can pull the trigger. Doesn't really matter where you are, as long as its not a place where firearms are prohibited.

The only condition being, you'd better be able to convey that same fear for your life to a potential prosecutor and possibly a jury.

Zuplar
12-30-2013, 11:17 AM
The only condition being, you'd better be able to convey that same fear for your life to a potential prosecutor and possibly a jury.

Very true, but if you are truly in danger and scared for your life, probably will be easy. Of course I believe if the police find it was self defense, sometimes there aren't even charges brought up.

shawnw
12-30-2013, 11:49 AM
Haha, we made a cameo. At :40 you can see me and the kids walking home. :)

They cut away before I got in the shot right behind you. I actually didn't realize they were filming when we walked by...

BBatesokc
12-30-2013, 12:52 PM
Very true, but if you are truly in danger and scared for your life, probably will be easy. Of course I believe if the police find it was self defense, sometimes there aren't even charges brought up.

In reality, while it matters what the police investigators think, a file will always be presented to the DA's office and it is the DA's office that decides whether or not to prosecute in a case where someone was killed.

In other types of criminal cases (where nobody dies) the police can indeed determine if the case proceeds or is dropped. Sometimes you'll hear the term 'we've received the blue sheets' from someone with the DA's office. That is in reference to the case file being turned over to prosecutors for consideration. For whatever reason, a case may be investigated (and may even have prosecutorial merit) but police never turn the blue sheets over to the DA's office. Sometimes the reason is legit, and sometimes its someone doing a personal favor.

Roger S
12-31-2013, 08:53 AM
Wow.... I opened this thread expecting to see a bunch of people saying the officer used excessive force when he removed the man that had rushed out on his garage from his garage.

Probably a good thing he shot, rather than tackle, him.

I won't get into any arguments about what the law says about this but I'm pretty certain this officer handed out a big dose of well deserved justice...... Unfortunately I also know. That sometimes the law, <cough>Ersland</cough> and justice, don't see eye to eye.

kevinpate
12-31-2013, 09:44 AM
No valid comparison exists between the actions of this homeowner/officer and the former pharmacist.

Now, should the officer tell several inconsistent tales, lie about his background, try to falsify medical information to support one of the inconsistent tales, and a home security tape emerge showing the officer dropping the intruder and then going off a bit then walking back by him, fetching a second weapon, returning back to the fallen intruder and firing several shots into the intruder's chest, well, then we'd have something that was fairly comparable.

Zuplar
12-31-2013, 09:53 AM
Wow.... I opened this thread expecting to see a bunch of people saying the officer used excessive force when he removed the man that had rushed out on his garage from his garage.

Probably a good thing he shot, rather than tackle, him.

I won't get into any arguments about what the law says about this but I'm pretty certain this officer handed out a big dose of well deserved justice...... Unfortunately I also know. That sometimes the law, <cough>Ersland</cough> and justice, don't see eye to eye.

You aren't the only one that thought this way. It's amazing the different in opinion here.

Roger S
12-31-2013, 10:36 AM
No valid comparison exists between the actions of this homeowner/officer and the former pharmacist.



There is a very valid comparison..... Had neither perp entered the property they entered with the intent to commit a crime. Neither of the victims would have been put in a situation to do the perps bodily harm.

Which is exactly why I say Justice and the Law do not always see eye to eye.

kelroy55
12-31-2013, 10:55 AM
There is a very valid comparison..... Had neither perp entered the property they entered with the intent to commit a crime. Neither of the victims would have been put in a situation to do the perps bodily harm.

Which is exactly why I say Justice and the Law do not always see eye to eye.

If the perp was unarmed and wounded do you think the officer would have gone back in the house to reload and come back out and shoot the robber?

MustangGT
12-31-2013, 11:56 AM
No valid comparison exists between the actions of this homeowner/officer and the former pharmacist.

Precisely. The former, in all likelihood, acted legally and the latter certainly did not.

BBatesokc
12-31-2013, 11:59 AM
There is a very valid comparison..... Had neither perp entered the property they entered with the intent to commit a crime. Neither of the victims would have been put in a situation to do the perps bodily harm.

Which is exactly why I say Justice and the Law do not always see eye to eye.

I would disagree - I also do not see any valid comparison between this shooting and the Ersland case (thus far) - aside from the fact that a crime was committed and the criminal was killed.

Unless I'm reading your post wrong (which has been known to happen) - you seem to be saying, simply having intent to commit a crime against another warrants the death penalty.??.

I would strongly disagree.

In the Ersland case, had his first shot taken the kids head off I'd say - valid kill.

From what I'm reading the officer reacted with deadly force (and didn't overreact, as in the Ersland case).

Do I agree Ersland committed a crime? Yep. Do I agree with his penalty? Nope.

Roger S
12-31-2013, 02:35 PM
If the perp was unarmed and wounded do you think the officer would have gone back in the house to reload and come back out and shoot the robber?

Who knows what he might have done.... You missed my point.

Roger S
12-31-2013, 02:45 PM
I would disagree - I also do not see any valid comparison between this shooting and the Ersland case (thus far) - aside from the fact that a crime was committed and the criminal was killed.

Unless I'm reading your post wrong (which has been known to happen) - you seem to be saying, simply having intent to commit a crime against another warrants the death penalty.??.

I would strongly disagree.

In the Ersland case, had his first shot taken the kids head off I'd say - valid kill.

From what I'm reading the officer reacted with deadly force (and didn't overreact, as in the Ersland case).

Do I agree Ersland committed a crime? Yep. Do I agree with his penalty? Nope.

Nope... As I have already said.... The law and justice do not always see eye to eye..... Could be why we have the two quotes "Justice is blind" and "In the eyes of the Law"

What I'm saying is that if the perps had stayed home and played Madden 20?? on their XBox that day. They would both still be alive. This officer would never have fired a shot and Ersland wouldn't have made the decision he made that day.

In my opinion justice was blindly served to both perps. They got what they had coming to them....... In the eyes of the law one, maybe both, of the victims in these situations are guilty.