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Pete
12-14-2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cchotelwiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
SW corner of Robinson & Reno (http://goo.gl/maps/VY8JG)
status=proposed
cost=est $200 million
finish= est 2019
other= Recommended 735 rooms

3/28/15: Four finalists named
Dollar figures in millions

# Entity Flag Rooms Total Cost Public Cost Notes
1 Omni Omni 600 $190.2 $70.5 $119.7 in equity; no debt. Remainder is public.
2 Marcus Hilton 600 $210.0 $63 to $84 Operates the Skirvin; private equity 10-15%; private financing 50-55%
3 Matthew Westin 600 $180.0 $50 to $90? $90 private debt; $40 private equity; $50 private financing
4 Mortenson Hyatt 600 $200.0 $80 to $120 Public investment of 40-60%

Links
Convention Hotel Study (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cchotelstudy.pdf)
Downtown Hotel Summary
Urban Project Summary
Gallery
1/7/15: New TIF District would fund OG&E HQ, convention garage and hotel (http://www.okctalk.com/content/94-new-tif-district-would-fund-og-e-hq-convention-garage-hotel.html)
12/17/13: Consultant supports hotel plan (http://newsok.com/consultant-supports-oklahoma-city-convention-hotel-plan/article/3915573)

Pete
12-14-2013, 09:21 AM
Study suggests Oklahoma City can support $200 million, 735-room conference hotel (http://newsok.com/study-suggests-oklahoma-city-can-support-200-million-735-room-conference-hotel/article/3914440)

By Steve Lackmeyer Modified: December 13, 2013 at 9:52 pm • Published: December 14, 2013
Two reports being delivered Tuesday to the Oklahoma City Council advise that the city can support construction of a 735-room conference hotel as part of development of a new convention center.

Texas consultant Jeremy Stone's study, compiled though visits with local hoteliers and analysis of local hospitality data, reports five full-service, “competitive” hotels enjoyed average room occupancy of 75.6 percent, with an average daily room rate of $129 in 2012.

After consideration of additional limited-service hotels being built or planned in Bricktown and Deep Deuce, Stone's report concludes that a new conference hotel, if it opened with the new convention center in 2019, would hit 56 percent occupancy that first year, jump to 64 percent the next year, and average out at 66 percent occupancy in 2022.

hfry
12-14-2013, 09:57 AM
That's great news Pete! Does anyone have a number on how many total rooms that would make it for all of downtown?

kevinpate
12-14-2013, 11:17 AM
If it would open to 56% occupancy, and average out at 66% three years later, wouldn't that suggest it ought to be closer to a 600 room hotel and run more like 80% on average?
Or do hotels not run averages that high and doing so would somehow be a bad thing.

- rarely have someone leave a light on for me, fancy or otherwise.

warreng88
12-14-2013, 11:25 AM
Where would the funding for the convention center hotel come from? Bond funds?

heyerdahl
12-14-2013, 11:26 AM
Probably because they can run at 66% average occupancy but still have the option to fill to 100% for certain weekends and events.

G.Walker
12-14-2013, 11:46 AM
Hopefully the hotel operator will be new franchise that is currently not in our market like, Omni, JW Marriott, or W.

BoulderSooner
12-14-2013, 11:50 AM
Some of the money could come from tif funds and go bond funds

Steve
12-14-2013, 12:39 PM
It is would open to 56% occupancy, and average out at 66% three years later, wouldn't that suggest it ought to be closer to a 600 room hotel and run more like 80% on average?
Or do hotels not run averages that high and doing so would somehow be a bad thing.

- rarely have someone leave a light on for me, fancy or otherwise.

I know this sounds weird, but the 60 percent is the threshold for what is considered a successful hotel. 80 percent would be considered perpetually full. I am told downtown hotels, all considered, are averaging at 76 percent.

Pete
12-14-2013, 12:59 PM
That's great news Pete! Does anyone have a number on how many total rooms that would make it for all of downtown?

See this summary:

Downtown Hotel Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown%20Hotel%20Summary&redirect=no)


If everything gets build that is proposed, we would have almost 4,000 rooms in the downtown area.

RodH
12-14-2013, 04:27 PM
See this summary:

Downtown Hotel Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown%20Hotel%20Summary&redirect=no)


If everything gets build that is proposed, we would have almost 4,000 rooms in the downtown area.

The report only counts 2000 of those as competitive for conventions due to level of service and proximity to the convention center. They included all of the hotels in the CBD and the proposed convention center hotel in that count

ljbab728
12-14-2013, 09:40 PM
nm

OKC@heart
12-14-2013, 10:33 PM
Can someone fill me in on the graphic at the top of this thread? Is this a new conceptual study of what they might build? I have to say as much as I have not been too thrilled about the location that they keep insisting for this, something of this nature with a great street presence and street level retail on both sides, or even shrouding the building itself with a mix of live work studio, brownstones etc. with carefully designed convention center entrances would be exciting. I realize that the danger is that with such a simplistic form and lacking any context it is enough to let my imagination run wild and hope for the best. This concept allows that to happen, so has my radar going off. Any additional detail would be welcome. Thanks in advance!

OKC@heart
12-15-2013, 09:52 AM
Can someone fill me in on the graphic at the top of this thread? Is this a new conceptual study of what they might build? I have to say as much as I have not been too thrilled about the location that they keep insisting for this, something of this nature with a great street presence and street level retail on both sides, or even shrouding the building itself with a mix of live work studio, brownstones etc. with carefully designed convention center entrances would be exciting. I realize that the danger is that with such a simplistic form and lacking any context it is enough to let my imagination run wild and hope for the best. This concept allows that to happen, so has my radar going off. Any additional detail would be welcome. Thanks in advance!

Never mind, answered myself on this one by looking at the Convention center thread, and getting caught up. So that is quite a change. will be interested to see what the materials for the building are to consist of, and would really like to have the backsides of the building to address the street with a mixed use application so we do not get a dead space similar to what was by the back or sides of the Cox Convention center. Cement wasteland with a line or two of trees. One can dream...

Laramie
12-15-2013, 01:53 PM
They have $30 million (money that was first designated to move the OG&E power grid) in a contingency fund? Could some of that be used to lure an anchor hotel as part of the Oklahoma City MAPS III convention center & hotel development?

OKCisOK4me
12-16-2013, 01:49 PM
They have $30 million (money that was first designated to move the OG&E power grid) in a contingency fund? Could some of that be used to lure an anchor hotel as part of the Oklahoma City MAPS III convention center & hotel development?

That would be a win-win situation but I doubt it'll go down like that. Probably will be put toward the cost of the convention center itself if actual collections fall under projections. BTW, does anyone know where we're at on MAPS3 collections thus far? Calling LarryOKC. LarryOKC, are you out there? You can post a link to your answer on the proper thread in this thread if you need to!

Just the facts
12-16-2013, 02:03 PM
The math and logic behind this whole thing is so screwy it makes my head hurt just to think about it. Alas, it proves one thing, the OKC Chamber are experts at double counting. As for losing out on 100 conventions - I wonder if anyone can name one of them.

DoctorTaco
12-16-2013, 02:55 PM
Not to blend this thread with another popular thread, but I'm guessing that Shadid comes after this project if he gets elected. Of course he probably comes after the streetcar too. So the way this all shook out is that it is a package deal. You gotta take the good with the bad, or you can lose both.

Hmmm.... Almost as if the writers of the MAPS3 ballot initiative planned it that way. ;)

Urbanized
12-16-2013, 04:11 PM
But...it would be OK if he came after the CC or the CC hotel, as long as he doesn't come after the streetcar, right..?

OKVision4U
12-16-2013, 04:24 PM
Shadid won't ever get that chance. Cornett is locked-in.

bchris02
12-16-2013, 04:29 PM
But...it would be OK if he came after the CC or the CC hotel, as long as he doesn't come after the streetcar, right..?

I think OKC needs both. It would be great to start getting some high profile conventions here. I could be wrong but I don't think the Cox cuts it. The convention center attached to an Omni or Hyatt hotel would be a huge coup for OKC. After the completion of the Aloft, downtown will have four full-service hotels. I think it could handle one more. Most of the best hotels in OKC are in the NW Expressway business district, not downtown.

Urbanized
12-16-2013, 04:34 PM
I agree with you bchris02. I think OKC needs both.

betts
12-16-2013, 04:35 PM
Shadid won't ever get that chance. Cornett is locked-in.

Please don't assume that and stay away from the polls March 4. Better yet, get 5 of your friends to vote as well. Shadid supporters will all be voting and the danger is if Mick supporters think they don't have to, that the race is locked up.

OKVision4U
12-16-2013, 04:51 PM
This is not a case of The Chicken or The Egg debate. We have to have these (high caliber) facilities before we can attrack larger conventions and additional outside business opportunities in industry shows. These items are a must on the next-level stage for OKC. Convention Center & Hotel. ...and i want 50 stories too. (if not, then lots of eye candy).

Just the facts
12-16-2013, 05:24 PM
But...it would be OK if he came after the CC or the CC hotel, as long as he doesn't come after the streetcar, right..?

They should just sell the CC as a quality of life and civic pride project and knock it off with these crazy out of the realm of possibility projections. They are embarrassing themselves. It is okay for the people to have nice things built with public money. They should leave it at that.

ljbab728
12-16-2013, 11:16 PM
Most of the best hotels in OKC are in the NW Expressway business district, not downtown.

You're kidding, I hope. The only hotel there that would qualify is the Marriott.

Plutonic Panda
12-16-2013, 11:46 PM
From Steve Lackmeyer

''The debate over whether the city should pursue development of a conference hotel will likely enter a new phase this week when residents will know whether the project is likely to move forward or die''

Read more here: Lively debate likely in Oklahoma City with discussion of new conference hotel studies | News OK (http://newsok.com/lively-debate-likely-in-oklahoma-city-with-discussion-of-new-conference-hotel-studies/article/3915198)

Just the facts
12-17-2013, 07:16 AM
Lively debate likely in Oklahoma City with discussion of new conference hotel studies | News OK (http://newsok.com/lively-debate-likely-in-oklahoma-city-with-discussion-of-new-conference-hotel-studies/article/3915198/?page=2)


Stone's new study seems to back such arguments, showing attendance at the city's current Cox Convention Center has fluctuated with big swings over the past decade, with a high of 684,641 people in 2004 and a low of 386,932 in 2008 (a 34 percent drop from the prior year). Attendance in 2012 totaled 579,978 — the highest number for Oklahoma City's downtown convention center since 2007.

Okay, so here we go. Of the 579,978 people who went to the Cox Center in 2012 (the highest year on record), what percentage of them were residents of central Oklahoma? Does the study that says we need to spend upwards of $50 million break it down like that?

Not counting playoff games - attendance in calendar year 2012 just for Baron games was 137,031. Are these 137,031 people counted as part of the 579,978? Without a convention hotel are we at risk of losing the Baron home games to Kansas City? Are any of the 137,031 the same people (being counted multiple times)? If so, how many of 579,978 are also the same people being counted multiple times?

You might ask, why does this matter? Here is why it matters....

http://newsok.com/study-suggests-oklahoma-city-can-support-200-million-735-room-conference-hotel/article/3914440/?page=2


Evans and Dean's study concludes that for every 10,000 convention attendees drawn by the new facilities, local economic output will increase by $1.6 million.

How do they possibly arrive at this figure since we know that the vast majority of those 10,000 people already live in metro OKC? By this calculation the Baron fans add nearly $22 million to the local economy every year - a local economy they already live in. We know this is simply not true - nor even possible.

warreng88
12-17-2013, 07:53 AM
Sorry if this is such an elementary question, but what makes a hotel full service? Restaurants? Meeting space? Full room service? Spa?

shawnw
12-17-2013, 07:56 AM
Room service?

kevinpate
12-17-2013, 08:09 AM
... Most of the best hotels in OKC are in the NW Expressway business district, not downtown.

You think the better hotels in OKC are out on NWX? The Marriot's not bad, I'll give you that one. And Crown back in earlier (much earlier) Hilton NW times wasn't horrid by any means, but the rest? Nah. Not in my opinion anyway. To each their own I suppose, but I can't join your parade.

BoulderSooner
12-17-2013, 08:09 AM
I think OKC needs both. It would be great to start getting some high profile conventions here. I could be wrong but I don't think the Cox cuts it. The convention center attached to an Omni or Hyatt hotel would be a huge coup for OKC. After the completion of the Aloft, downtown will have four full-service hotels. I think it could handle one more. Most of the best hotels in OKC are in the NW Expressway business district, not downtown.

Aloft is not a full service hotel

Bellaboo
12-17-2013, 08:19 AM
You're kidding, I hope. The only hotel there that would qualify is the Marriott.

Waterford may qualify too.

kevinpate
12-17-2013, 08:22 AM
Sorry if this is such an elementary question, but what makes a hotel full service? Restaurants? Meeting space? Full room service? Spa?

All of the above. I've stayed in places where room service consisted of a choice of call in places and being a guest meant you paid 10% off or received free delivery. Didn't consider it a full service hotel, but I readily concede it beat a vending box bag o stale chips.

kevinpate
12-17-2013, 08:25 AM
They should just sell the CC as a quality of life and civic pride project and knock it off with these crazy out of the realm of possibility projections. They are embarrassing themselves. It is okay for the people to have nice things built with public money. They should leave it at that.

I can't find a thing I disagree with in this. I do think there is potential for some new OKC business with a new cc. Like you, I don't buy in that there will be enough new business brought in to ever cover the expense of bringing it here.

LuccaBrasi
12-17-2013, 08:48 AM
The biggest reason the OCCVB and convention center needs an associated hotel is so there can be one negotiated contract between meeting planners, who are negotiating on behalf of XYZ convention, and the OCCVB for convention space, room blocks, and food service, etc. Most, if not all, competing city's already has s simplified process such as this. Today in OKC, if I'm not mistaken, the OCCVB can only negotiate the convention space, therefore, the meeting planner has to then call the Renaissance to negotiate rooms and food, and/or other hotels if the Renaissance does not have enough rooms to block out. As you can see, it's a much more laborious process and could drive away business and does not bode well for overall negotiating tactics. Therefore, the discussion of the hotel is not as simple as just the total count in the CBD.

Just the facts
12-17-2013, 08:53 AM
If THAT is the reason then they should stop this dead in it tracks right now - because the cost of construction will NEVER be recouped if it only comes from 'conventions we missed out on". We have got to stop with this 'economic angle' because the economic don't support it.

Public buildings (be they a convention center, a train station, or a police headquarters) should represent the collective spirit of the people and be places that inspire future generations, honor past generations, and be a source of pride for the current generation. That is the only reason we should need to have nice things. And of course it would define a sense of place if they used the same 'style' for all public buildings in the downtown area.

bchris02
12-17-2013, 09:15 AM
Waterford may qualify too.

The Waterford was primarily what I was thinking of. In addition to that there is the Marriott and the Crowne Plaza.

I would really like to see an Omni, Hyatt, or Ritz Carlton in downtown OKC. Downtown could use another option on the high-end.

ljbab728
12-17-2013, 03:11 PM
The Waterford was primarily what I was thinking of. In addition to that there is the Marriott and the Crowne Plaza.

I would really like to see an Omni, Hyatt, or Ritz Carlton in downtown OKC. Downtown could use another option on the high-end.

I wouldn't consider the Waterford to be in the NW EXP business district.

bchris02
12-17-2013, 04:25 PM
I wouldn't consider the Waterford to be in the NW EXP business district.

It's close enough. It's easily the nicest hotel outside the core and the second nicest in the city after the Skirvin. I am not sure how the Aloft will rank when it is complete.

I am really hoping this convention center hotel will end up being an Omni with mixed hotel and condos. Something like this.

http://www.alliebeth.com/sites/default/files/page/omni-ft-worth.jpg?1366056679

BoulderSooner
12-17-2013, 04:29 PM
This project is a no brained

CaptDave
12-17-2013, 04:36 PM
It's close enough. It's easily the nicest hotel outside the core and the second nicest in the city after the Skirvin. I am not sure how the Aloft will rank when it is complete.

I am really hoping this convention center hotel will end up being an Omni with mixed hotel and condos. Something like this.

http://www.alliebeth.com/sites/default/files/page/omni-ft-worth.jpg?1366056679

That is my hope as well. The Ft Worth Omni is very nice and worth taking a look for those who have not been there. That concept could work very well in OKC.

PhiAlpha
12-17-2013, 05:39 PM
It's close enough. It's easily the nicest hotel outside the core and the second nicest in the city after the Skirvin. I am not sure how the Aloft will rank when it is complete.

I am really hoping this convention center hotel will end up being an Omni with mixed hotel and condos. Something like this.

http://www.alliebeth.com/sites/default/files/page/omni-ft-worth.jpg?1366056679

That is exactly what I was thinking. FTW's convention center and hotel are a great model for us to shoot for. Again, if you haven't been to conventions in cities near our size or slightly larger, you have no idea how far behind we are in facilities. This is a necessary project. I can't speak to the 100 conventions we've supposedly lost but I know of one relatively large oil and gas convention that we likely would've landed for the next few years had our facilities been better. Given what is needed for that convention in other cities, no way we could efficiently host it right now. It usually brings in somewhere between 6,000 and 12,000 people for the regional installments, most of which would be from out of town.

bchris02
12-17-2013, 05:54 PM
That is exactly what I was thinking. FTW's convention center and hotel are a great model for us to shoot for. Again, if you haven't been to conventions in cities near our size or slightly larger, you have no idea how far behind we are in facilities. This is a necessary project. I can't speak to the 100 conventions we've supposedly lost but I know of one relatively large oil and gas convention that we likely would've landed for the next few years had our facilities been better. Given what is needed for that convention in other cities, no way we could efficiently host it right now. It usually brings in somewhere between 6,000 and 12,000 people for the regional installments, most of which would be from out of town.

Completely agree with this. OKC NEEDS this convention center and hotel. Large conventions also bring huge exposure to a community with people from around the country coming to town who otherwise wouldn't. I personally see this as more vital to the future of OKC than the streetcar and perhaps the most vital of the MAPS3 projects.

UnFrSaKn
12-17-2013, 09:31 PM
Downtown OKC hotel may cost $200 million, partly funded by taxpayers | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2013/12/17/study-downtown-okc-hotel-may-cost-200-million-partly-funded-by-the-city/)

ljbab728
12-17-2013, 10:07 PM
That Omni in Fort Worth, with 614 rooms, is somewhat smaller than what is being recommended in OKC but an Omni would be fine with me.

HangryHippo
12-18-2013, 08:48 AM
That Omni in Fort Worth, with 614 rooms, is somewhat smaller than what is being recommended in OKC but an Omni would be fine with me.

That particular Omni would be fine with me.

GaryOKC6
12-18-2013, 08:53 AM
Completely agree with this. OKC NEEDS this convention center and hotel. Large conventions also bring huge exposure to a community with people from around the country coming to town who otherwise wouldn't. I personally see this as more vital to the future of OKC than the streetcar and perhaps the most vital of the MAPS3 projects.

I totally agree as well. Our convention facilities are outdated and are no longer viable. We need a facility that is truly a convention center. I have done trade shows around the country and they were all a major factor for those cities economic growth.

kwhey
12-18-2013, 08:58 AM
Sorry if this is such an elementary question, but what makes a hotel full service? Restaurants? Meeting space? Full room service? Spa?

Happy Endings?

kevinpate
12-18-2013, 10:50 AM
Only Omni I have stayed in was in Baltimore, several, several years back.
If I've ever stayed somewhere nicer, I had way too much fun to actually remember anything about the place.

bchris02
12-18-2013, 11:20 AM
I totally agree as well. Our convention facilities are outdated and are no longer viable. We need a facility that is truly a convention center. I have done trade shows around the country and they were all a major factor for those cities economic growth.

Completely agree. The Cox Center is currently very sad compared to many other cities' convention centers. I would like to see something like Nashville's center get built here. Should Shadid get elected and if he derails the convention center, do you think its possible to retrofit the Cox Center?

shawnw
12-18-2013, 11:25 AM
I don't see how. The biggest problem is a lack of large enough contiguous space, and the arena being right there in the middle kinda kills the opportunity for such space.

PhiAlpha
12-18-2013, 11:28 AM
Completely agree. The Cox Center is currently very sad compared to many other cities' convention centers. I would like to see something like Nashville's center get built here. Should Shadid get elected and if he derails the convention center, do you think its possible to retrofit the Cox Center?

Not without closing it and getting rid of the arena...basically rebuilding the whole thing. Quality wise, I think the cox is ok (at least in the ball rooms), but quantity is where we have issues. The Cox meeting rooms/ball rooms are actually pretty nice, but are more like what you would find as part of a larger convention center or part of a hotel (embassy suites in norman comes to mind). The small exhibit floor space, lack of much more of those ball/meeting rooms, and lack of a large convention center hotel are the main issues that put us behind other cities.

CaptDave
12-18-2013, 03:45 PM
Only Omni I have stayed in was in Baltimore, several, several years back.
If I've ever stayed somewhere nicer, I had way too much fun to actually remember anything about the place.

I've stayed in the Ft Worth Omni and like it a lot. The condos in the tower are very nice and I like the look of the tower better than the hotel base.

OKCisOK4me
12-18-2013, 07:50 PM
I've stayed in the Ft Worth Omni and like it a lot. The condos in the tower are very nice and I like the look of the tower better than the hotel base.

I stayed there back in 2011. My girlfriend (ex) and I went out to the roof patio/pool/bar and were on the very southeast corner smoking away from others. I snapped this pic:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2892/11444130193_dd17480d76.jpg

Downtown OKC should have something like this!

G.Walker
12-21-2013, 05:17 PM
The 22 story convention hotel proposed by the owners of the Skirvin a couple years ago is looking good right about now...

Steve
12-21-2013, 06:10 PM
If it actually was really doable... keep in mind, there's no assurance they wouldn't have needed public financing as well.

G.Walker
12-21-2013, 06:45 PM
Flashback:

http://newsok.com/developer-bids-to-build-hotel-near-myriad-gardens-project/article/2031289

shawnw
12-22-2013, 06:13 PM
I really liked the Skirvin proposal, but only with the convention center on the bricktown parking lot, even if it required some public funding.

Spartan
12-25-2013, 08:55 PM
The Skirvin expansion wouldn't have really brought much more stock online