Just wondering, but why is it when you guys talk about Texas booms towns you always seem to neglect San Antonio?

It's the second fastest growing metro in Texas and grew by over 20% from 1990 to 2000 and over 25% from 2000 to 2010. And city wise, is usually in the top 3 nation wide for population growth.

Just wondering, but why is it when you guys talk about Texas booms towns you always seem to neglect San Antonio?

It's the second fastest growing metro in Texas and grew by over 20% from 1990 to 2000 and over 25% from 2000 to 2010. And city wise, is usually in the top 3 nation wide for population growth.

San Antonio is simply overshadowed by Austin and doesn't get as much love from the media. You are right though. Personally, I think San Antonio has much better infrastructure than Austin and could be a much larger city without growth being choked off.

San Antonio is simply overshadowed by Austin and doesn't get as much love from the media. You are right though. Personally, I think San Antonio has much better infrastructure than Austin and could be a much larger city without growth being choked off.

I am surprised that San Antonio hasn't had an NFL team relocate there.

Just wondering, but why is it when you guys talk about Texas booms towns you always seem to neglect San Antonio?

It's the second fastest growing metro in Texas and grew by over 20% from 1990 to 2000 and over 25% from 2000 to 2010. And city wise, is usually in the top 3 nation wide for population growth.

If OKC was that close to the Mexico border we would be booming to....lol

Just wondering, but why is it when you guys talk about Texas booms towns you always seem to neglect San Antonio?

It's the second fastest growing metro in Texas and grew by over 20% from 1990 to 2000 and over 25% from 2000 to 2010. And city wise, is usually in the top 3 nation wide for population growth.

SA is a good example that not all growth is good growth.

When I lived in Dallas the main rap on SA is it has very little industry and generally low pay compared to DFW, Houston, Austin, and even OKC. The economy is driven mainly by military and tourism, although they've had some success in luring industry like Toyota. Most people who move there are retirees, army transfers, or are equity refugees from the coasts.

Don't get me wrong, I love SA. Lots of culture and a "little big town vibe." And its nice that there are a few places left in the US that are not overly commercialized train wrecks. But San Antonio is something of a lifestyle destination, similar to locales like Florida, Arizona, or to a lesser extent Colorado. Unless you have a beach, niche culture, or ideal climate thats something very hard to recreate.

^ Exactly...

San Antonio definitely has a better road network than Austin, but yeah, what adaniel said is spot on.

San Antonio is simply overshadowed by Austin and doesn't get as much love from the media. You are right though. Personally, I think San Antonio has much better infrastructure than Austin and could be a much larger city without growth being choked off.

San Antonio's sprawl is effing ridiculous.

I know up 281 it's almost one damn continuous city now up to Spring Branch, no?

That used to be country up there.

San Antonio definitely has a better road network than Austin, but yeah, what adaniel said is spot on.

You're right about that! And worse yet, Austin has very little they can do about it in the worst spots.

SA is a good example that not all growth is good growth.

When I lived in Dallas the main rap on SA is it has very little industry and generally low pay compared to DFW, Houston, Austin, and even OKC. The economy is driven mainly by military and tourism, although they've had some success in luring industry like Toyota. Most people who move there are retirees, army transfers, or are equity refugees from the coasts.

Don't get me wrong, I love SA. Lots of culture and a "little big town vibe." And its nice that there are a few places left in the US that are not overly commercialized train wrecks. But San Antonio is something of a lifestyle destination, similar to locales like Florida, Arizona, or to a lesser extent Colorado. Unless you have a beach, niche culture, or ideal climate thats something very hard to recreate.

I'm sorry, I have to laugh at this (and at those agreeing with this) because aside from be completely incorrect, it's based off a false "perception" from one of the most pretentious city's in this country (Dallas). I guess if you're not part of the standard Dallas mentally/lifestyle, you know, being a $35,000 a year millionaire, you're not worthy.

Anyway, it's inaccurate because the economy isn't driven by the military or tourism. In fact, tourism isn't even one of the top five largest economic industries in San Antonio.

The two largest economic impact industries in San Antonio are the health care industry and the financial industry followed by the military, then manufacturing, then IT. Oil and Gas come after that.

Another thing, as of 2012, both San Antonio (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_41700.htm) and Oklahoma City (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ok.htm) have very similar pay. So, similar pay for both places however, San Antonio has a lower cost of living (http://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/oklahoma-city-vs-san-antonio).

After looking at a map, that is depressing. I remember when FM 1604 was pretty much the end of the earth for people there.

And that seems to be the time period you still seem to perceive San Antonio with.

Btw, this isn't the 80s anymore Adaniel, it's called Loop 1604, not FM 1604.

Green Country sent me a PM informing me that I was incorrect in my claim that San Antonio was the second fastest growing metro in Texas, it was in fact the third fastest growing. I tried to reply to the PM but his or her folder is full and therefore would not accept my reply.

Here is that reply:
_______________________________________

You are correct. I was mistaken. I did my own calculations and it seems I messed up when calculating Houston's percentage between 2000-2010, because I got a lower number than the one your showing and the one I just did myself to confirm. I said, I was incorrect. However, my point remains. San Antonio is on par or better than Dallas and Houston in those recent figures, yet, it is never mentioned when Texas boom towns are talked about.

And that seems to be the time period you still seem to perceive San Antonio with.

Btw, this isn't the 80s anymore Adaniel, it's called Loop 1604, not FM 1604.

Sounds like you'd have more fun on SanAntonioTalk.com.

Sounds like you'd have more fun on SanAntonioTalk.com.

This.

Didn't think I was that harsh in my assessment of SA. Its actually one of my favorite cities. Poster asked why San Antonio isn't mentioned more on here, I gave them an answer. I know several people from that area, including a girl I semi-dated, and what I typed was largely their opinions, not mine. And then there's this: Left Behind: Why People Leave San Antonio | The Rivard Report (http://therivardreport.com/left-behind-why-people-leave-san-antonio/)

Still like and respect what San Antonio is doing. With that in mind, I am too excited about what's going on in OKC to get into an argument about whats going on in a city that in many ways is completely different than ours.

I'm sorry, I have to laugh at this (and at those agreeing with this) because aside from be completely incorrect, it's based off a false "perception" from one of the most pretentious city's in this country (Dallas). I guess if you're not part of the standard Dallas mentally/lifestyle, you know, being a $35,000 a year millionaire, you're not worthy.

Anyway, it's inaccurate because the economy isn't driven by the military or tourism. In fact, tourism isn't even one of the top five largest economic industries in San Antonio.

The two largest economic impact industries in San Antonio are the health care industry and the financial industry followed by the military, then manufacturing, then IT. Oil and Gas come after that.

Another thing, as of 2012, both San Antonio (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_41700.htm) and Oklahoma City (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ok.htm) have very similar pay. So, similar pay for both places however, San Antonio has a lower cost of living (http://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/oklahoma-city-vs-san-antonio).

You could use any reasoning you want, but the truth is that in most people's minds Houston, Dallas, and Austin are always going to come first when they think of Texas. Because of that San Antonio is never going to get the kind of attention it probably deserves.

You could use any reasoning you want, but the truth is that in most people's minds Houston, Dallas, and Austin are always going to come first when they think of Texas. Because of that San Antonio is never going to get the kind of attention it probably deserves.

I highly doubt that. Maybe on this forum but not in general or every day life across this country or the globe.

This.

Didn't think I was that harsh in my assessment of SA. Its actually one of my favorite cities. Poster asked why San Antonio isn't mentioned more on here, I gave them an answer. I know several people from that area, including a girl I semi-dated, and what I typed was largely their opinions, not mine. And then there's this: Left Behind: Why People Leave San Antonio | The Rivard Report (http://therivardreport.com/left-behind-why-people-leave-san-antonio/)

Still like and respect what San Antonio is doing. With that in mind, I am too excited about what's going on in OKC to get into an argument about whats going on in a city that in many ways is completely different than ours.

And I responded to your inaccurate answer.

Btw, what does a blog about people leaving San Antonio because of jobs have to do with anything pertaining to the question I asked. You could make the same blog post about every city or metro in this country, including Oklahoma City. Unless, no one ever leaves Oklahoma City for job reasons... :rolleyes:

My question was about San Antonio having the same (or better) growth as the other boom towns but never mentioning. I guess sub-textually, I was using the question as a way to inform this board of what San Antonio has done and continues to do.

I feel like there's a bit of ignorance when it comes to San Antonio on this forum.

It could be that the perception of SA compared to Dallas, Houston and Austin is due to their lack of a prominant downtown core. Kind of like Ft Worth is overshadowed by Dallas's skyscrapers, whether unjustly or not.

It could be that the perception of SA compared to Dallas, Houston and Austin is due to their lack of a prominant downtown core. Kind of like Ft Worth is overshadowed by Dallas's skyscrapers, whether unjustly or not.

By prominent downtown core, do you mean specifically the skyline?

Because aside from that one trivial aspect, downtown San Antonio is probably the most active downtown in Texas. From workers to tourists to locals. They're all downtown, from sunrise to sunset and longer.

Also, this may not be known here, but in the last two years, nearly 2,000 housing units have been added to the urban core and nearly 1,000 units are under construction or proposed now.

There is also a yet to be proposed 800 unit mixed-use development (multiple towers) planned for the Pearl area. The developers have talked about it but have yet to officially "propose" it.

Then there's the over 1 billion dollars in public investment currently going on in downtown, right now.

These four projects are planned or under construction:

VIA Modern Streetcar (http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/23/55/26/5166471/0/622x350.jpg) ($280 million)
Hemisfair Park redevelopment (http://www.hemisfair.org/pdfs/2012-06-18_Hemisfair_Framework_and_Master_Plan.pdf) (180 million)
San Pedro Creek redevelopment (http://extras.mysanantonio.com/pdf/SPC_condensed_images.ppt) (200 million)
San Antonio Convention Center expansion (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/downtown/wp-content/blogs.dir/667/files/renderings-of-the-convention-center-expansion/ccexpand3.jpg) (350 million)

The VIA streetcar will be up and running by 2017.

The Hemisfair redevelopment will add 20-acres of park land to downtown as well as turn a seldom used area into a mxed-use neighborhood.

The San Pedro Creek redevelopment will basically give downtown San Antonio two "Riverwalks", this one on the west side of downtown. The actual Riverwalk was expanded two miles to the north, this extension is called the Museum Reach (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=museum+reach+san+antonio).

I could also include the Tobin Center for the Performing Arts (http://lmnarchitects.com/assets/work/tobin_center_for_the_performing_arts/images/1hi.jpg), which is currently under construction with a fall 2014 opening planned. That cost $210 million.

Also, it was announced yesterday that H&M, PF Chang's, Yardhouse, Margaritaville and more are adding locations to downtown. Are part of the redevelopment of the Joske's building, which will also see a mixed-use tower component.

I highly doubt that. Maybe on this forum but not in general or every day life across this country or the globe.

In my experience, that is just not true. I'm from Kansas City, and when I graduated from KU last May nobody was talking about moving to San Antonio. Everyone I know who ended up in Texas ended up in Houston, then Dallas, then Austin in that order.

As for people's opinions around the country and globe, do you honestly think people from Europe or Asia think about San Antonio over Dallas or Houston when US cities come up?

Another thing that I think hurts San Antonio, is that it has the perception of being a very Hispanic oriented city. It has a lot of Mexican heritage, and over 63% of its population is Hispanic. Some people prefer a city that is a little more diverse.

Edit: I don't mean any of these points as insults towards San Antonio. I'm just trying to say that SA does indeed have a lot of competition, just in it's own state, for publicity. That's why it doesn't get as much attention as some other cities, like Portland for example, who are the only major city in their state.

San Antonio Convention Center expansion (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/downtown/wp-content/blogs.dir/667/files/renderings-of-the-convention-center-expansion/ccexpand3.jpg) (350 million)


wow... their expanded convention center cost 40% more than our brand new one... hmmmm...

wow... their expanded convention center cost 40% more than our brand new one... hmmmm...

Well, the expansion itself will be nearly twice the size as the entire proposed new OKC convention center.

That sounded like a knock on their expansion, but really it was a knock on our cost estimate for a new convention center...

In my experience, that is just not true. I'm from Kansas City, and when I graduated from KU last May nobody was talking about moving to San Antonio. Everyone I know who ended up in Texas ended up in Houston, then Dallas, then Austin in that order.

So your reasoning is grounded in anecdotal evidence. Makes sense.

As I said before, San Antonio had the second highest percentage for brain gain in 2012. It was actual a couple of decimals from being number one.

Between 2008 and 2011, San Antonio also ranked 2nd in the nation for brain gain.


As for people's opinions around the country and globe, do you honestly think people from Europe or Asia think about San Antonio over Dallas or Houston when US cities come up?

That's not at all what I said.


Another thing that I think hurts San Antonio, is that it has the perception of being a very Hispanic oriented city. It has a lot of Mexican heritage, and over 63% of its population is Hispanic. Some people prefer a city that is a little more diverse.

Ah, so it comes out, the cause of the bias I seem to get from you? I guess Atlanta being nearly 60% black and New Orleans being over 60% black and Minneapolis being over 60% white are hurting those cities? Or is a majority population only a problem if the majority is olive skin? You let me know, because I don't think "the perception of being a very White or very black city hurts them" would have come out of your keyboards. So, why the exception for Hispanic majority?

What's your opinion of Miami? 64% Hispanic population. Is your opinion the same, it hurts them?

That sounded like a knock on their expansion, but really it was a knock on our cost estimate for a new convention center...

I didn't take it as a knock, just clarifying why the expansion cost so much more.

Houston, Dallas, Austin > SA - Skyline. A lot of peoples perceptions are formed from a visual distance.

And I responded to your inaccurate answer.

Btw, what does a blog about people leaving San Antonio because of jobs have to do with anything pertaining to the question I asked. You could make the same blog post about every city or metro in this country, including Oklahoma City. Unless, no one ever leaves Oklahoma City for job reasons... :rolleyes:

My question was about San Antonio having the same (or better) growth as the other boom towns but never mentioning. I guess sub-textually, I was using the question as a way to inform this board of what San Antonio has done and continues to do.

I feel like there's a bit of ignorance when it comes to San Antonio on this forum.

When you have a moment, read that blog article and the comments in its entirety. It had very little to do with people leaving San Antonio due to jobs. Rather, it described people leaving the area because they felt it was not a city that embraced young professionals and the "creative class" largely due to cultural factors and, among other things, large retiree population and a focus on tourism. I hate that term for the record, but that article is in line of some of the complaints I've heard about SA. Doesn't make it a horrible place, and retaining younger types is an uphill battle for most mid sized cities. Frankly, a lot of what was said in that could describe OKC prior to 2008.

I do think that SA has a ton of potential due to its unique culture and proximity to Austin's tech scene. And I have heard great things about the mayor there. I think you are getting a bit defensive, and maybe you should consider starting a new thread detailing SA's progress if you feel its not well represented.

Houston, Dallas, Austin > SA - Skyline. A lot of peoples perceptions are formed from a visual distance.

And that's a fair point.

That's understandable.

The lack of an impressive (subjective) skyline downtown forming an opinion on a place is understandable. I get that.

Which is why I asked the question to in a way showcase what has been going on (booming in the 90s and 2000s and now) as well as the downtown and urban core of San Antonio.

The Pearl/Lower Broadway area is in the urban core and in the last year there have been nearly 1,000 residential units added to that area and another 1,000 proposed or under construction in the Pearl alone. To give you a reference of how big the urban core for San Antonio is, the Pearl/Lower Broadway area is the same distance from downtown as 23rd street is from downtown OKC.

Also, a major reason for the lack of high-rises in the downtown skyline is two fold. Extremely high price of downtown land and extremely cheap price of suburban land. Many of the people who post here have probably never been to San Antonio, but the suburban landscape is dotted with high rises and mid rises. USAA is HQ'd in one of the largest buildings in the country, but it's in the suburbs. If USAA decided build a new single building skyscraper HQ, it would be nearly the height of the Willis Tower in Chicago.

San Antonio just suffers from being 4th fiddle in a very large state. It's no different than Sacramento, Fresno, or Bakersfield in California. If San Antonio was in New Mexico or Oklahoma it would be far and away top dog.

When you have a moment, read that blog article and the comments in its entirety. It had very little to do with people leaving San Antonio due to jobs. Rather, it described people leaving the area because they felt it was not a city that embraced young professionals and the "creative class" largely due to cultural factors and, among other things, large retiree population and a focus on tourism.

Are you reading the same blog post? Not once in it are retirees or tourism mentioned. The only time that stuff gets brought up is in the comments.

Btw, Oklahoma City has a higher retirement population (65+) than San Antonio.


I hate that term for the record, but that article is in line of some of the complaints I've heard about SA. Doesn't make it a horrible place, and retaining younger types is an uphill battle for most mid sized cities. Frankly, a lot of what was said in that could describe OKC prior to 2008.

Sorry, let's be real here. It could describe OKC now, no offense.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you've ever seen the American Migration map done by Forbes.

It shows the population migration county by county. They feature the years 2005-2010. The blue represents a net gain in residents from that county. Red represents a net loss to to that county. The darker the color, the higher the difference in net gain/loss.

This is San Antonio in 2010 (http://i.imgur.com/jpsVO95.png).

This is Oklahoma in 2010 (http://i.imgur.com/oBs0WLm.png).

Notice how much greater an area Bexar County (San Antonio) pulls than Oklahoma City. Also notice how Bexar pulls in people from the Pacific Northwest and Silicon Valley.

P.S. That blog post you keep using as a reference is almost two years old. Since then, the Pearl and Lower Broadway (http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/17/35/25/4052326/5/premium_gallery_landscape.jpg) has exploded into a hip area with young professionals. As a small example, within the last year, a young couple from San Francisco bought a house in Government Hill, one block from Lower Broadway, and turned it into a bakery called Bakery Lorraine (http://www.yelp.com/biz/bakery-lorraine-san-antonio?nb=1). It's gone on to gain national praise and recognition.

Then there's the Pearl (http://www.lakeflato.com/projects/pearl-brewery/pearl-brewery-15.jpg) itself. If you're not familiar with it, you should definitely check it out. It's a culinary haven. It's home to one of the three CIA schools. Almost a dozen independent restaurants (http://atpearl.com/food/restaurants) and counting. A boutique hotel is under construction as well as a 10 story residential building.

San Antonio just suffers from being 4th fiddle in a very large state. It's no different than Sacramento, Fresno, or Bakersfield in California. If San Antonio was in New Mexico or Oklahoma it would be far and away top dog.

In any California comparison, San Antonio is San Deigo. Without the beach and year round perfect weather. lol

In any California comparison, San Antonio is San Deigo. Without the beach and year round perfect weather. lol

That's like saying you're Jessica Simpson without the huge breasts and gorgeous face.

That's like saying you're Jessica Simpson without the huge breasts and gorgeous face.

Then no comparison can work for any texas metro and california metro, because SD, LA, SF all coastline metros and no Texas metro has year round perfect weather.

Then no comparison can work for any texas metro and california metro, because SD, LA, SF all coastline metros and no Texas metro has year round perfect weather.

I will agree with you. Central Texas does not compare to Southern California in any way.

Nowhere in Texas compares to California. However, the Hill Country in NW San Antonio and between SA and Bandera is probably the prettiest area of the state. Lost Maples is unmatched.

So your reasoning is grounded in anecdotal evidence. Makes sense. As I said before, San Antonio had the second highest percentage for brain gain in 2012. It was actual a couple of decimals from being number one.

Between 2008 and 2011, San Antonio also ranked 2nd in the nation for brain gain.



That's not at all what I said.



Ah, so it comes out, the cause of the bias I seem to get from you? I guess Atlanta being nearly 60% black and New Orleans being over 60% black and Minneapolis being over 60% white are hurting those cities? Or is a majority population only a problem if the majority is olive skin? You let me know, because I don't think "the perception of being a very White or very black city hurts them" would have come out of your keyboards. So, why the exception for Hispanic majority?

What's your opinion of Miami? 64% Hispanic population. Is your opinion the same, it hurts them?

1. Anecdotal evidence? Well, KU is one of the largest universities outside of Texas in this part of the country, so I would consider where all of it's STEM graduates move for jobs to be a decent indicator of the opportunities for the creative class in those cities. And the fact is that almost all of the STEM graduates from KU who moved to Texas moved to either Houston or Dallas. I never said that meant that nobody else was moving to SA, I just said that is my experience.

2. Yes, that is exactly what you said. "I highly doubt that. Maybe on this forum but not in general or every day life across this country or the globe." On the Global Cities Index for 2010 Dallas is an Alpha city, Houston is a Beta city, and San Antonio is a Sufficiency city. So no, people from around the globe do not view SA on the same scale they view Dallas/Houston. I don't see why you refute that. There is nothing wrong with not being a global city like Dallas/Houston.

3. And of course you come out waving the race card because I said San Antonio is a Hispanic city. Say what you want, but there is no denying that San Antonio has a lot of Mexican/Spanish heritage. And say what you want about Atlanta, but Atlanta is almost unrivaled in the opportunities it offers to young professionals. Comparing those two cities makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. As for Miami, it has South Beach and all the perks that come with living in South Florida. Nowhere in my comment did I say that nobody wants to move to San Antonio because there's too many "olive skin" people. That's ridiculous. The other cities you brought up don't have the same perception because they have very diverse communities, whereas when I was in San Antonio it seemed heavily slanted towards Hispanic culture.

You can't ask for people's opinions and then shoot them down for not knowing as much about SA as you. You asked for my opinions based on my experiences and I gave them.

I've been to San Antonio several times, but it's been a few years since i've been. Step son lives in Houston, so we go there about twice a year now.

San Antonio just suffers from being 4th fiddle in a very large state. It's no different than Sacramento, Fresno, or Bakersfield in California. If San Antonio was in New Mexico or Oklahoma it would be far and away top dog.

This. That doesn't mean SA doesn't have tons of good things going for it.

1. Anecdotal evidence? Well, KU is one of the largest universities outside of Texas in this part of the country, so I would consider where all of it's STEM graduates move for jobs to be a decent indicator of the opportunities for the creative class in those cities. And the fact is that almost all of the STEM graduates from KU who moved to Texas moved to either Houston or Dallas. I never said that meant that nobody else was moving to SA, I just said that is my experience.

You don't know every person who graduated from KU. Not even "almost" all of them. So how exactly can you make that claim? And obviously a higher percentage of them would move to a metro area three times the size of San Antonio. That's just percentages.


2. Yes, that is exactly what you said. "I highly doubt that. Maybe on this forum but not in general or every day life across this country or the globe." On the Global Cities Index for 2010 Dallas is an Alpha city, Houston is a Beta city, and San Antonio is a Sufficiency city. So no, people from around the globe do not view SA on the same scale they view Dallas/Houston. I don't see why you refute that. There is nothing wrong with not being a global city like Dallas/Houston.

That's based on GPD. My comment was in terms of perception, not economic prowess.


3. And of course you come out waving the race card because I said San Antonio is a Hispanic city. Say what you want, but there is no denying that San Antonio has a lot of Mexican/Spanish heritage. And say what you want about Atlanta, but Atlanta is almost unrivaled in the opportunities it offers to young professionals. Comparing those two cities makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. As for Miami, it has South Beach and all the perks that come with living in South Florida. Nowhere in my comment did I say that nobody wants to move to San Antonio because there's too many "olive skin" people. That's ridiculous. The other cities you brought up don't have the same perception because they have very diverse communities, whereas when I was in San Antonio it seemed heavily slanted towards Hispanic culture.

The fact that you even had to go there tells me all I need to know about you. What relevance does San Antonio's Mexican and Spanish (and German) heritage have to do with ANYTHING we're discussing? That'd be like me saying "Well, the perception of being a white cowboy town is why people across the country generally view OKC in a bad light." I doubt you or your fellow OKCians would be ok with me saying that.

You don't know every person who graduated from KU. Not even "almost" all of them. So how exactly can you make that claim? And obviously a higher percentage of them would move to a metro area three times the size of San Antonio. That's just percentages.



That's based on GPD. My comment was in terms of perception, not economic prowess.



The fact that you even had to go there tells me all I need to know about you. What relevance does San Antonio's Mexican and Spanish (and German) heritage have to do with ANYTHING we're discussing? That'd be like me saying "Well, the perception of being a white cowboy town is why people across the country generally view OKC in a bad light." I doubt you or your fellow OKCians would be ok with me saying that.

1) Each individual school, engineering included, within KU releases employment data for the previous year's graduates and breaks employment down by company and by city. So no, I didn't know every single person in the engineering school. But I didn't need to for that kind of information.

3) Because that exact reason is why people from somewhere like NYC wouldn't jump for joy to move to a smaller city. NYC has an answer for literally everything you could want because it is so culturally diverse. That was my entire point. People view Dallas/Houston/Atlanta as very culturally rich areas for young professionals. There's something for everybody in those cities. All I was saying is that from my experience people generally don't view San Antonio as being as diverse. And if you decide that an opinion like that is enough to start making personal attacks on someone's character on an online forum than that tells me all I need to know about you as well.

1) Each individual school, engineering included, within KU releases employment data for the previous year's graduates and breaks employment down by company and by city. So no, I didn't know every single person in the engineering school. But I didn't need to for that kind of information.

3) Because that exact reason is why people from somewhere like NYC wouldn't jump for joy to move to a smaller city. NYC has an answer for literally everything you could want because it is so culturally diverse. That was my entire point. People view Dallas/Houston/Atlanta as very culturally rich areas for young professionals. There's something for everybody in those cities. All I was saying is that from my experience people generally don't view San Antonio as being as diverse. And if you decide that an opinion like that is enough to start making personal attacks on someone's character on an online forum than that tells me all I need to know about you as well.

Diversity is a matter of subjectivity.

Someone going from New York City wouldn't find OKC diverse. Someone coming from Houston or even San Antonio wouldn't find OKC diverse.

Does that mean you also think OKC isn't diverse?

Diversity is a matter of subjectivity.

Someone going from New York City wouldn't find OKC diverse. Someone coming from Houston or even San Antonio wouldn't find OKC diverse.

Does that mean you also think OKC isn't diverse?

Wow, troll much? What does OKC have to do with me saying SA isn't as diverse as Houston or Dallas? I don't think anyone is going to try and argue that OKC is as diverse as NYC.

Your initial question was why do people not give San Antonio as much pub as they give the other Texas cities (Dallas, Houston, Austin). You've gotten several responses. I'm done feeding the troll. I should've just gritted my teeth and stopped after my first response. This thread has taken enough of a detour.

I'm trolling? I'm giving you examples of subjectivity. I said people coming from NYC, Houston or San Antonio wouldn't find OKC diverse. And I don't mean just racially or ethnically. But you probably find OKC diverse and someone coming from El Paso or Birmingham or Jacksonville might find OKC diverse. All I was trying to express was that diversity is relative to ones own subjectivity.

And again, my gripe and question was breed from the fact that factual, San Antonio's population and
economic growth has been on par with the other Texas metros. Yet never gets mentioned on this forum. That was it. You're the one who brought up the Hispanic population and heritage which made no sense.

I'm trolling? I'm giving you examples of subjectivity. I said people coming from NYC, Houston or San Antonio wouldn't find OKC diverse. And I don't mean just racially or ethnically. But you probably find OKC diverse and someone coming from El Paso or Birmingham or Jacksonville might find OKC diverse. All I was trying to express was that diversity is relative to ones own subjectivity.

And again, my gripe and question was breed from the fact that factual, San Antonio's population and
economic growth has been on par with the other Texas metros. Yet never gets mentioned on this forum. That was it. You're the one who brought up the Hispanic population and heritage which made no sense.

I agree that subjectivity is everything. Somebody moving to OKC from Lawton would likely feel like they've hit the big, bustling city while somebody moving from Dallas could feel like they've moved to a small town.

And it isn't just on this forum that San Antonio doesn't get mentioned. It gets overlooked quite often, which is really quite sad. It's a great city in my opinion.

…Not really an attack on Texas so much as an assent to reality…

And I've seen the pictures... I want to puke every time.

But why did the Pei Plan come around in the first place?OKC wanted to reinvent itself, and in doing so it destroyed much of its history and amazing buildings it once had and made a huge mistake. That is really all I can tell you.

I agree that subjectivity is everything. Somebody moving to OKC from Lawton would likely feel like they've hit the big, bustling city while somebody moving from Dallas could feel like they've moved to a small town.

And it isn't just on this forum that San Antonio doesn't get mentioned. It gets overlooked quite often, which is really quite sad. It's a great city in my opinion.

Thank you. This is a great reply. I am not here to troll or be argumentative. I did ask a question, and in all honesty it was more of a rhetorical question than a question that needed an answer. However, some of the answers to that question have stayed on point and within the context of the question I asked. Others, for whatever reason, have not been.

Didn't OKC model it's Bricktown Canal off of the one in San Antonio?

San Antonio is a great city and I actually debated about putting that in front of Austin in my fav Texas towns, Dallas will always be number one for me though. The Sea World in SA is also by far the best Sea World I've ever been to.

San Antonio is a great place Josh, doesn't look like anyone here is saying otherwise, just pointing out facts and realities. Sounds like you live there? If so, awesome! You ought to consider making a thread for development there in the "other communities". We have one for Omaha, Lincoln, and now Spartan's city Cleveland; I'm sure a San Antonio would be welcomed. I'm impressed by everything going on there and kind of jealous. Hope everything goes well there!

I might have to do that.

However, just simple correction. It's less realities and more opinion.

I'm trolling? I'm giving you examples of subjectivity. I said people coming from NYC, Houston or San Antonio wouldn't find OKC diverse. And I don't mean just racially or ethnically. But you probably find OKC diverse and someone coming from El Paso or Birmingham or Jacksonville might find OKC diverse. All I was trying to express was that diversity is relative to ones own subjectivity.

And again, my gripe and question was breed from the fact that factual, San Antonio's population and
economic growth has been on par with the other Texas metros. Yet never gets mentioned on this forum. That was it. You're the one who brought up the Hispanic population and heritage which made no sense.

Seriously dude, SanAntonioTalk.com. That's where you want to be. You are on the wrong forum.

You ask a totally subjective question. Moreover you ask a totally subjective question that can only end with you getting your feelings hurt. "Why don't people talk about San Antonio when they talk about all the great Texas cities? We're just as good as blah blah blah." That's like the ugly girl asking "you guys are flirting with all the cheerleaders, why don't you ask me out instead?"

San Antonio is home to the Alamo, a small building where a handful of white people were overrun by a horde of Mexicans. Nobody talks about San Antonio because everyone thinks its still that way. It's not hip and cool like Austin, it's not a sprawling metropolis heavily identified with Air and Space and oil like Houston. It didn't have it's own soap opera like Dallas. Instead it has a million Mexicans.

You asked why people don't talk about it? That's why. That's the perception. You can argue as much as you want. That's still the perception. And that's why no one talks about it.

Edit:

That came across just a little bit harsher than I intended it. San Antonio is probably a great place. Of course I went to college with a guy from San Antonio and he was a dick. But it's in that same situation that OKC is in. It's going to get very limited attention from people outside of its area. It is not sexy. It is not high profile. Oklahoma's equivalent to San Antonio is Lawton.

I agree, please feel free to start a SA thread and contribute to OKC development if you find lessons we could learn from SA.

Also, please don't be too offended by the folks who heartedly defend OKC - it's just the residents are very proud of OKC and what they've accomplished. In fact, this trait isn't something you would have noticed even just 15-years ago, when OKC residents themselves didn't have anything good to say about their own city. Dramatic change now and I'd chalk it up to HUGE satisfaction of their accomplishment AND future. I

don't think anyone on here means any harm against any other city but they definitely will defend OKC which is not a bad thing (just as you're defending SA). :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Seriously dude, SanAntonioTalk.com. That's where you want to be. You are on the wrong forum.

You ask a totally subjective question. Moreover you ask a totally subjective question that can only end with you getting your feelings hurt. "Why don't people talk about San Antonio when they talk about all the great Texas cities? We're just as good as blah blah blah." That's like the ugly girl asking "you guys are flirting with all the cheerleaders, why don't you ask me out instead?"

San Antonio is home to the Alamo, a small building where a handful of white people were overrun by a horde of Mexicans. Nobody talks about San Antonio because everyone thinks its still that way. It's not hip and cool like Austin, it's not a sprawling metropolis heavily identified with Air and Space and oil like Houston. It didn't have it's own soap opera like Dallas. Instead it has a million Mexicans.

You asked why people don't talk about it? That's why. That's the perception. You can argue as much as you want. That's still the perception. And that's why no one talks about it.

Edit:

That came across just a little bit harsher than I intended it. San Antonio is probably a great place. Of course I went to college with a guy from San Antonio and he was a dick. But it's in that same situation that OKC is in. It's going to get very limited attention from people outside of its area. It is not sexy. It is not high profile. Oklahoma's equivalent to San Antonio is Lawton.

Great job not reinforcing any Oklahoma stereotypes.

I will ignore you from now on and probably block you if this forum has that function. You make yourself, your city and your state look bad.

If you want people to continue to think Oklahoma is full of narrow- minded bigots, you succeeded.

I'll let you wallow in your own ignorance. But the sad part is, you've probably never even been outside the state lines of Oklahome, and if you have it's probably to Dallas.

P.S.

Oklahoma's equivalent to San Antonio is Lawton?... This is too pathetic to even laugh at.

I would ask what college you went to, but I doubt you're even out of high school.

Great job not reinforcing any Oklahoma stereotypes.

I will ignore you from now on and probably block you if this forum has that function. You make yourself, your city and your state look bad.

If you want people to continue to think Oklahoma is full of narrow- minded bigots, you succeeded.

I'll let you wallow in your own ignorance. But the sad part is, you've probably never even been outside the state lines of Oklahome, and if you have it's probably to Dallas.

P.S.

Oklahoma's equivalent to San Antonio is Lawton?... This is too pathetic to even laugh at.

I would ask what college you went to, but I doubt you're even out of high school.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

Apparently Oklahomans have a stereotype for being mean on the internet.

Click on my name above where it says "participating member". Click "view profile". On the left hand corner you'll see a grayscale box where it says my name again, followed by a blank picture since I don't have an avatar photo. The third line down will say "add to ignore list". Click that. You may then happily ignore me.

SAN ANTONIO
http://i.imgur.com/5gzFx9U.png

http://i.imgur.com/aQwArzA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/E4FBrOn.jpg


Recent rankings and acknowledgements


http://www-therivardreport-com.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Number-1-san-antonio-8020-foundation.jpg


Neighborhoods and Districts

DOWNTOWN
http://i.imgur.com/l1qTdWE.png

http://i.imgur.com/YwnuJLh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/98tTAVK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ykplXj4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/th1frSE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zIAhULR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/N0mHwSw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TLDvxI0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/17expf2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FuFxjzm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RickNoH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/54u6f5c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aa9U3Pb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/usE3akA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LvU0xmV.jpg



SOUTHTOWN
http://i.imgur.com/TUjXAH9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/W6h07kV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L4GKj47.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mVaBv4G.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zqPZStY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eX90u0z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aE6VguC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dtpwhrt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/J473imw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yIHlrC3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7yJ3qMl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uMnm6hl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ivGmjDg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UY0XQ1B.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YSuTIjD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/72ZT15R.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MjHaHOw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pgeXezY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VE41V3Y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LReLd07.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IoZ33Kl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0tHvCSs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/o2EWj2s.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nQEGcdV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HPD8UVs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/04NpBhA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RTsKhX7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zzzzjKc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r503jKM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lJBW3s9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PaX6xNn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CJHtqA1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ydwI2U1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/p8WZnOR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yRaPdA2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6MNSsXj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IuuzunV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hoDaKmK.jpg


RIVER NORTH

http://i.imgur.com/GdtqcR8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PECUljm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zhqvWBO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9wSZQ5U.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XaaKX9O.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/14GbGnR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/s0r2jp1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/76urv2f.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nkI5Np1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EcngaR6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mHl97Ak.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fJr8Am3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/d7sO2Gv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CZLLyLc.jpg


THE PEARL/LOWER BROADWAY

http://i.imgur.com/qYVeDGH.jpg





To be continued...

I started a thread (http://www.okctalk.com/other-communities/35797-san-antonio-%7C-deep-heart.html#post714322) in Other Communities.

I intend to start off by giving a photo tour of some of the neighborhoods and districts of San Antonio. Then I'll begin to post about the developments happening in and around the city.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

Apparently Oklahomans have a stereotype for being mean on the internet.

Click on my name above where it says "participating member". Click "view profile". On the left hand corner you'll see a grayscale box where it says my name again, followed by a blank picture since I don't have an avatar photo. The third line down will say "add to ignore list". Click that. You may then happily ignore me.

What truth? Your ignorance? Your bigotry? Your juvenile mentality?

Guys, get back to discussing San Antonio in a respectful way, otherwise I am going to completely close this thread.

I agree, please feel free to start a SA thread and contribute to OKC development if you find lessons we could learn from SA.

Also, please don't be too offended by the folks who heartedly defend OKC - it's just the residents are very proud of OKC and what they've accomplished. In fact, this trait isn't something you would have noticed even just 15-years ago, when OKC residents themselves didn't have anything good to say about their own city. Dramatic change now and I'd chalk it up to HUGE satisfaction of their accomplishment AND future. I

don't think anyone on here means any harm against any other city but they definitely will defend OKC which is not a bad thing (just as you're defending SA). :rolleyes:

Cheers!

One thing I think OKC could have learned from San Antonio and still could in some ways is canal-front development. Everything on the river walk in San Antonio seamlessly interacts with the canal while Bricktown's canal seems to be completely neglected. I would like to see existing construction retrofitted to create more canal integration.

My good friends wife was almost mugged twice in 2 days in San Antonio a few years back. A couple of teenage kids tried to yank her purse from her, first time on the street in front of the Alamo, and the other was over by the Hemisphere tower.

That's the impression they came back from SA with......

And no offense, but the downtown skyline just doesn't measure up to the other major towns in Texas......not even Ft Worth. Go back and take a look at your photos and you'll see.

Does San Antonio have height restrictions or something? Austin's skyline was pretty pathetic until they removed the restriction prior to building the Frost Bank Tower.