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Buffalo Bill
12-03-2013, 12:05 PM
300 NW 12th
48 senior housing units

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/clcommonswiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
4/7/15: $5.5 million building permit application submitted.

12/19/13: Midtown senior housing project proceeds (http://newsok.com/midtown-senior-housing-project-proceeds/article/3915834)

Neighborhood Housing Services Oklahoma City, Inc. (Applicant or NHS) is applying to the OHFA for an allocation of Affordable Housing Tax Credits to develop a 48-unit affordable housing complex for independent elderly households at a convenient, desireable location in Midtown.

The Applicant, NHS, has been providing nonprofit affordable housing services to residents of Oklahoma City since the 1980's, and has been a local stakeholder in the Midtown community for more than a decade. NHS offices are currently located on the site of the proposed development.

NHS proposes to demolish its administration building, relocate its offices, and construct a new multi-family complex containing 48 residental units along with generous common space. NHS has experience owning and managing affordable multifamily residential property, and commits to continue serving the current resident population throughout the tax credit extended 40-year compliance period.

Beneficiaries will be low income elderly households capable of living independently. Unit types, sizes and rents are as follows:
0 Bedroom at 50% AMI: 2 units, 414 square feet at $445 per month.
0 Bedroom at 60% AMI: 2 units, 414 square feet at $550 per month.
1 Bedroom at 50% AMI: 18 units, 593 square feet at $462 per month.
1 Bedroom at 60% AMI: 18 units, 593 square feet at $575 per month.
2 Bedroom at 50% AMI: 4 units, 755 square feet at $555 per month.
2 Bedroom at 60% AMI: 4 units, 755 square feet at $690 per month.
Links
Downtown Housing Summary
Urban Project Summary
County Assessor Record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R045800800)

Gallery

Pete
12-03-2013, 12:20 PM
^

Looks like that is going to design review.

The location is 1320 Classen Drive, which is a vacant lot next to Villa Teresa and part of the property owned by Neighborhood Housing Services, which owns that office building just north.


Good grief, Midtown is going off.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1320classen.JPG

musg8411
12-03-2013, 12:33 PM
I would rather see Villa Teresa be developed into this rather than build something new right next door. I am all for new development but why not use what's already there. Unless there is some plan already in the works for Villa Teresa.

Pete
12-03-2013, 12:42 PM
I believe there are some things in the works for Villa Teresa.

HangryHippo
12-03-2013, 12:50 PM
I believe there are some things in the works for Villa Teresa.

Man, I hope MidtownR gets involved there and spruces it up. It would be tremendous with their stamp on it.

shawnw
12-03-2013, 01:37 PM
Hopefully that does not include demo and surface parking lot for the church now that they can't park where the Edge is going...

Urbanized
12-03-2013, 01:42 PM
Low income? Does Heritage Hills know about this?

catch22
12-03-2013, 01:46 PM
Glad to see low income housing here. I imagine you will see younger people who work in restaurants and the service industry downtown eat these up. Diversity is good.

warreng88
12-03-2013, 01:47 PM
Glad to see low income housing here. I imagine you will see younger people who work in restaurants and the service industry downtown eat these up. Diversity is good.

I see what you did there...

catch22
12-03-2013, 01:47 PM
I stayed with a couple in Portland who lived in a low income apartment in the Chinatown district. Was a 20 story tower, and the interiors were nice. $640 a month for a 900 sq foot 1 bed 1 bath with window view of the mountains.

Urbanized
12-03-2013, 01:48 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't belong there, I'm asking if Heritage Hills knows about it.

catch22
12-03-2013, 01:50 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't belong there, I'm asking if Heritage Hills knows about it.

My reply wasn't aimed at you at all. I know what point you were making. Maybe the tenants will actually work in the sex shops at The Edge.

bchris02
12-03-2013, 02:00 PM
So is this a government housing project? If so, might it bring an undesirable element to Midtown and increase crime?

Pete
12-03-2013, 02:01 PM
I haven't seen any formal applications, and this would have to go through the Urban Design Committee as a first step.

Just the facts
12-03-2013, 02:15 PM
Can someone define "low income housing project" as used to discribe this development? Is it Section 8 housing or does it just contain some affordable housing units?

UnFrSaKn
12-03-2013, 02:20 PM
As someone who plans on doing the low income housing program that NHS has, you wouldn't describe me as an "undesirable element" would you?

PhiAlpha
12-03-2013, 02:27 PM
Section 8 is absolutely a terrible idea for this area and totally goes against what has been going on down here over the last 10 years. If that is what's planned, I hope this gets shot down in flames immediately, i would definitely agree with heritage hills residents that were pissed about it. Now if low in come means the type of apartments going into part of the steel yard, then I think that is fine and will bring the type of diversity that will benefit midtown. Based on every other example I've seen, section 8 diversity is not good diversity and definitely doesn't belong there.

bchris02
12-03-2013, 02:28 PM
As someone who plans on doing the low income housing program that NHS has, you wouldn't describe me as an "undesirable element" would you?

No sir, and I apologize if I offended anybody by using that terminology. Is this project section 8 or is it something else?

Pete
12-03-2013, 02:29 PM
Haven't heard anything about Section 8.

Let's not jump to that conclusion.

bchris02
12-03-2013, 02:35 PM
Section 8 is absolutely a terrible idea for this area and totally goes against what has been going on down here over the last 10 years. If that is what's planned, I hope this gets shot down in flames immediately, i would definitely agree with heritage hills residents that were pissed about it. Now if low in come means the type of apartments going into part of the steel yard, then I think that is fine and will bring the type of diversity that will benefit midtown. Based on every other example I've seen, section 8 diversity is not good diversity and definitely doesn't belong there.

I agree. I mean absolutely no offense to anybody who lives in government housing. There are some great people out there who do. Unfortunately it also, at least stereotypically, brings in an element that does more harm to a neighborhood than good. If section 8 housing goes into Midtown I hate to say it could do major damage the district's potential.

dankrutka
12-03-2013, 02:51 PM
So, just a few questions based on these reactions, should poor people only allowed to live near other poor people in your estimations? Is it possible that income diversity could be a positive for those who moved into a nicer area AND those who are more well off who rarely come into contact with the poor at all? I can tell you one thing - A lot of people I know who have never been around poverty carry tremendously inaccurate stereotypes around with them that I find problematic also. So, is economic segregation a requirement for urban development? Or is this not about just economics? Just curious.

And, I know this is a little off topic, but it's certainly an important issue to core development.

Pete
12-03-2013, 02:57 PM
^

Great points.

AP
12-03-2013, 03:09 PM
So, just a few questions based on these reactions, should poor people only allowed to live near other poor people in your estimations? Is it possible that income diversity could be a positive for those who moved into a nicer area AND those who are more well off who rarely come into contact with the poor at all? I can tell you one thing - A lot of people I know who have never been around poverty carry tremendously inaccurate stereotypes around with them that I find problematic also. So, is economic segregation a requirement for urban development? Or is this not about just economics? Just curious.

And, I know this is a little off topic, but it's certainly an important issue to core development.

I think this is why I get so put off by the term gentrification. To me it represents an environment that I don't really want to be a part of. Income diversity is huge, in my opinion, and I think that is something that OKC's developing areas are lacking in.

soonerguru
12-03-2013, 03:39 PM
I agree. I mean absolutely no offense to anybody who lives in government housing. There are some great people out there who do. Unfortunately it also, at least stereotypically, brings in an element that does more harm to a neighborhood than good. If section 8 housing goes into Midtown I hate to say it could do major damage the district's potential.

I disagree with this. I think an urban neighborhood should include people of all income types. There is section 8 housing near my home and I've lived in my neighborhood for 8 years with zero problems. Not everyone is a yuppie, and it would be disappointing if downtown / midtown was only inhabitable for upper middle class folks.

adaniel
12-03-2013, 03:45 PM
I think this is why I get so put off by the term gentrification. To me it represents an environment that I don't really want to be a part of. Income diversity is huge, in my opinion, and I think that is something that OKC's developing areas are lacking in.

That cities are slowing become playgrounds for the rich and the elite is probably the biggest threat to urban revitalization nationwide IMO. Obviously thats nowhere near the case for OKC, compared to places like Manhattan or San Francisco, but the risk is there. A certain level of income diversity puts a check on this. There are already several low-priced apartments and at least one OKCHA-managed housing project randomly scattered about midtown. As a resident of the area its really no big deal.

wdj
12-03-2013, 04:02 PM
Section 8 is absolutely a terrible idea for this area and totally goes against what has been going on down here over the last 10 years. If that is what's planned, I hope this gets shot down in flames immediately, i would definitely agree with heritage hills residents that were pissed about it. Now if low in come means the type of apartments going into part of the steel yard, then I think that is fine and will bring the type of diversity that will benefit midtown. Based on every other example I've seen, section 8 diversity is not good diversity and definitely doesn't belong there.

With all due respect, I grew up in Section 8 housing. In fact, a large portion of my family still lives in Section 8 housing. By that token, my family wouldn't belong?

-goes back into lurking mode-

CuatrodeMayo
12-03-2013, 04:21 PM
Low-income or no low-income, I have a feeling the end result is going to look and feel like cheap, suburban apartment building/Best Western. When I look at the elevation, I see PTAC units and residential-grade vinyl windows.

Maybe I'm being too quick to judge.

The existing building has interesting bones. I'd like to see it re-imagined.

Buffalo Bill
12-03-2013, 05:39 PM
From what I have heard, this building will be for low and no income senior housing. It doesn't seem to be that this would be the highest and best use of this parcel of land. The land is owned by Neighborhood Housing Services, FWIW. There is plenty of Section 8 housing in the area; many units just north of this intersection on Shartel between 18th and 23rd. There's also the OKC Housing Authority POS just a block west of there.

Regarding the design of the building, I agree. It reeks of a rural Interstate Highway thrown up hotel. Free waffles from 6-9 AM.

PhiAlpha
12-03-2013, 05:58 PM
With all due respect, I grew up in Section 8 housing. In fact, a large portion of my family still lives in Section 8 housing. By that token, my family wouldn't belong?

-goes back into lurking mode-

With all due respect, some section 8 housing may be nicer than others, but any government housing I've grown up around has been among the highest crime and drug ridden areas in the city. In addition, the apartment complexes generally start out nice enough and end up completely run down over time due to awful management. The vast majority of poverty level homes in near downtown neighboorhoods don't or can't keep up there own property either, leaving trashed homes next to nicer ones, driving down home values and making otherwise decent areas much less attractive living options. I understand not being able to afford costly renovations of older homes but there is abesoloutly zero excuse to have crap strung out all over your yard and keep your yard mowed at least somewhat below knee level.I looked all over the inner core for a house and that was constantly an issue in improving neighborhoods. I'm sorry, but I don't want to live for that, if anything because it would make my home more difficult to sell.

I'm sure it is a case of the minority ruining it and its reputation for everyone, but that's not something I want more of around my home or neighborhood. There is a pleanty of government and very very low income housing in and around midtown right now, enough that I would say that lower income residents make up the majority of midtown currently. We need more somewhat low, middle, and upper income options there right now, not section 8. Again, I'm fine with lower income housing similar to what is going into the steel yard, but I'm sorry, I will never be ok with more section 8 housing here. That's how I feel about it and nothing will change my opinion, so I will politely bow out of the conversation until we know more about this project.

Spartan
12-03-2013, 06:01 PM
I would rather see Villa Teresa be developed into this rather than build something new right next door. I am all for new development but why not use what's already there. Unless there is some plan already in the works for Villa Teresa.

Relax, this is all getting developed fast..

Questor
12-03-2013, 06:46 PM
Honestly seems like another instance of okc not thinking long-term to me. Everyone laments about how we have no true areas of concentrated wealth in this city, and point to that as to a major reason why we never get clustered quality commercial development... And five minutes later defend something like what they're thinking about doing here. OKC is being bipolar if they allow this development as is. Honestly the city could do a lot better job of clearly defining and planning what they are trying to do in some of these various neighborhoods. SoSA vs. Cottage District comes to mind too.

bchris02
12-03-2013, 08:56 PM
Honestly seems like another instance of okc not thinking long-term to me. Everyone laments about how we have no true areas of concentrated wealth in this city, and point to that as to a major reason why we never get clustered quality commercial development... And five minutes later defend something like what they're thinking about doing here. OKC is being bipolar if they allow this development as is. Honestly the city could do a lot better job of clearly defining and planning what they are trying to do in some of these various neighborhoods. SoSA vs. Cottage District comes to mind too.

I agree. OKC needs areas of concentrated middle and upper-income housing. OKC is already far less segregated by income than most cities. Think about it, you have high-income homes in Nichols Hills and a few blocks over you have slums. It seems to me thats what people are advocating for more of in this thread. Let neighborhoods like Midtown, Auto Alley, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, etc be for yuppies and build section 8 housing elsewhere.

And yes, without concentrated wealth OKC will never see the type of retailers that should be here but aren't.

metro
12-03-2013, 09:24 PM
And to add on the the pile -- if anything for decades downtown and MidTown OKC has had too much lower income housing, and not enough "yuppie" housing; so I'd make the argument that all the new yuppie housing is adding the diversity. I live in SoSA and although it's had an awesome transformation, it's still littered with Section 8 and little to no income housing. So is MidTown. There are several multi-unit complexes in these areas that come to mind. While I agree with the argument above that all income brackets add to the urban mix, we need enough middle to high end to support retail, etc. The low end doesn't support en masse the amenities that our downtown sorely lacks. I'm just excited to see all the infill we've seen started or announced in the last 60 days; we've hit critical mass and it will only continue as long as the dollar doesn't flop.

Shipwreck
12-03-2013, 09:35 PM
5149

Just FYI, I have the honor of spending some great time with the sisters of Villa Teresa, especially when I was researching their history and scanning in their collection of photos for my Midtown book. They STILL live there and will be around for awhile yet. They have had a wonderful impact on the area and I encourage you to stop in and say hi.

CurtisJ
12-03-2013, 09:59 PM
With all due respect, I grew up in Section 8 housing. In fact, a large portion of my family still lives in Section 8 housing. By that token, my family wouldn't belong?

-goes back into lurking mode-

SEE! Section 8 breeds lurkers!!!!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Spartan
12-03-2013, 10:09 PM
Everyone mystifying this as Section 8 is embarrassing themselves. So far this looks like an okay development. Well need to see site plans and use guidelines going forward.

Steve
12-03-2013, 10:14 PM
Who says this is Section 8 housing?

Spartan
12-03-2013, 10:17 PM
6-7 posters in this thread have brought it up with several asserting it is such and then railing against it. #strawman

PhiAlpha
12-03-2013, 10:28 PM
Everyone mystifying this as Section 8 is embarrassing themselves. So far this looks like an okay development. Well need to see site plans and use guidelines going forward.

Not anymore than everyone freaking out about the stage center tower design or the design of "insert project here" before the renderings are released.

catch22
12-04-2013, 12:10 AM
This is rediculous. No part of town should ever be shut off to other incomes. That attitude is disgusting and reeks of the Titanic thinking. We can't have any of the coach class scum on the first class lifeboats.

OKCisOK4me
12-04-2013, 12:49 AM
For everyone who thinks this development is section 8....do you think this would be better off in the JFK neighborhood? That's what I thought. Let's hold your horses back here for a minute and see what this project brings...

PhiAlpha
12-04-2013, 01:55 AM
This is rediculous. No part of town should ever be shut off to other incomes. That attitude is disgusting and reeks of the Titanic thinking. We can't have any of the coach class scum on the first class lifeboats.

Have you ever been to midtown? It definitely is not "shut off" to any type of income...it's in fact too heavily saturated in low income.

There is nothing wrong with or disgusting about having an upscale part of town. We currently don't have many of them.

bchris02
12-04-2013, 05:30 AM
This is rediculous. No part of town should ever be shut off to other incomes. That attitude is disgusting and reeks of the Titanic thinking. We can't have any of the coach class scum on the first class lifeboats.

So would you be okay with building a no-income section 8 tenement at the intersection of Penn and Whilshire in Nichols Hills, which is arguably one of the few upscale areas in the OKC metro? Should a bail bonds business and an XXX shop be allowed to move in across the street from it?

I'm sorry to sound like a snob, but I don't think there is anything wrong with having an upscale part of town. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to live in the ghetto if you don't have to. Sorry to all the honest people simply down on their luck who have little income or no income who live in government housing. Unfortunately those who take advantage of the system and bring in crime, drugs, and prostitution that those developments are known for have given the projects an undesirable stigma.

When it comes to long term vision, building low-income or no-income housing in an area will simply drive the higher income people to the suburbs. What do we want downtown to be? Do we want a vibrant, safe, gentrified district or do we want it to be a haven for those less fortunate? Despite best intentions, and I know the intentions are good, it won't work as both.

dankrutka
12-04-2013, 07:18 AM
Wow. Some of those stereotypes are coming on strong. Have you ever considered that a lot of people do not want XXX shops, bail bond shops, and crime in their neighborhoods and that's why they'd move to an area that is not economically segregated? A lot if this is very insulting and extremely elitist.

PhiAlpha
12-04-2013, 08:49 AM
Wow. Some of those stereotypes are coming on strong. Have you ever considered that a lot of people do not want XXX shops, bail bond shops, and crime in their neighborhoods and that's why they'd move to an area that is not economically segregated? A lot if this is very insulting and extremely elitist.

Sorry, we have differing opinions about what we want down the street from us. You're free to disagree or go cry about it if you would like. Again, there is pleanty of very low/Zero income housing in and around midtown, much more then middle to upscale housing right now. If you are interested in diversity, that is the type of housing you should want more of. Other cities have very upscale districts and wouldn't dream of adding low/zero income housing to the mix. Again, we already have a decent amount of that, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. I'm sorry, but it's not elitist to want midtown to be a full mid-upscale mixed use district, we don't really even have one of those. Deep Duece is close but will never have a ton of retail and restaurants/bars. The point is likely moot as it sounds like this fortunately won't be section 8, but to act like we're elitist assholes because we don't think more very low/0 income housing should be 1-2 blocks away from where people are investing half to million plus dollars on houses and condos is ridiculous. It doesn't make me anymore elitist for wanting less low income housing then it makes you a hippy liberal for wanting more diversity.

HangryHippo
12-04-2013, 08:49 AM
I actually don't see any problem with the rendering. Of course, as is normally the case, the devil's in the details, so the execution would have to be on point, but I think it has a colonial feel like something you'd see in North Carolina or Virginia. If done properly (brick and light stone on the bottom) it might look very nice in person. Unfortunately, it could also go just as poorly if the execution is off. So... I'll wait for more details.

bchris02
12-04-2013, 09:00 AM
Sorry, we have differing opinions about what we want down the street from us. You're free to disagree or go cry about it if you would like. Again, there is pleanty of very low/Zero income housing in and around midtown, much more then middle to upscale housing right now. If you are interested in diversity, that is the type of housing you should want more of. Other cities have very upscale districts and wouldn't dream of adding low/zero income housing to the mix. Again, we already have a decent amount of that, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. I'm sorry, but it's not elitist to want midtown to be a full mid-upscale mixed use district, we don't really even have one of those. Deep Duece is close but will never have a ton of retail and restaurants/bars. The point is likely moot as it sounds like this fortunately won't be section 8, but to act like we're elitist assholes because we don't think more very low/0 income housing should be 1-2 blocks away from where people are investing half to million plus dollars on houses and condos is ridiculous. It doesn't make me anymore elitist for wanting less low income housing then it makes you a hippy liberal for wanting more diversity.

+1

soonerguru
12-04-2013, 09:04 AM
I actually don't see any problem with the rendering. Of course, as is normally the case, the devil's in the details, so the execution would have to be on point, but I think it has a colonial feel like something you'd see in North Carolina or Virginia. If done properly (brick and light stone on the bottom) it might look very nice in person. Unfortunately, it could also go just as poorly if the execution is off. So... I'll wait for more details.

I agree. Not an architect, but it looks nice to me and would seem to fit in well with Villa Theresa. Perhaps instead of "low income" the building will just not have all of the amenities so many of these new complexes have: dog park, pool, rooftop deck, workout facility, etc.

"Affordable housing" isn't necessarily cheap. Some of the "affordable" units being proposed will rent for more than my monthly mortgage payment. Let's wait until we have more information before breaking out the pitchforks.

BoulderSooner
12-04-2013, 09:06 AM
I will avoid the for or against portion of this debate.


I will say that it is clear that not many people fully grasp the current housing makeup in this area

HangryHippo
12-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Sorry, we have differing opinions about what we want down the street from us. You're free to disagree or go cry about it if you would like. Again, there is pleanty of very low/Zero income housing in and around midtown, much more then middle to upscale housing right now. If you are interested in diversity, that is the type of housing you should want more of. Other cities have very upscale districts and wouldn't dream of adding low/zero income housing to the mix. Again, we already have a decent amount of that, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. I'm sorry, but it's not elitist to want midtown to be a full mid-upscale mixed use district, we don't really even have one of those. Deep Duece is close but will never have a ton of retail and restaurants/bars. The point is likely moot as it sounds like this fortunately won't be section 8, but to act like we're elitist assholes because we don't think more very low/0 income housing should be 1-2 blocks away from where people are investing half to million plus dollars on houses and condos is ridiculous. It doesn't make me anymore elitist for wanting less low income housing then it makes you a hippy liberal for wanting more diversity.

Now you're cookin'.

soonerguru
12-04-2013, 09:22 AM
Sorry, we have differing opinions about what we want down the street from us. You're free to disagree or go cry about it if you would like. Again, there is pleanty of very low/Zero income housing in and around midtown, much more then middle to upscale housing right now. If you are interested in diversity, that is the type of housing you should want more of. Other cities have very upscale districts and wouldn't dream of adding low/zero income housing to the mix. Again, we already have a decent amount of that, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. I'm sorry, but it's not elitist to want midtown to be a full mid-upscale mixed use district, we don't really even have one of those. Deep Duece is close but will never have a ton of retail and restaurants/bars. The point is likely moot as it sounds like this fortunately won't be section 8, but to act like we're elitist assholes because we don't think more very low/0 income housing should be 1-2 blocks away from where people are investing half to million plus dollars on houses and condos is ridiculous. It doesn't make me anymore elitist for wanting less low income housing then it makes you a hippy liberal for wanting more diversity.

I thought you were going to "bow out" of this conversation. I'm seeing a lot of bowing in. Irritable bow syndrome?

bchris02
12-04-2013, 09:33 AM
I agree. Not an architect, but it looks nice to me and would seem to fit in well with Villa Theresa. Perhaps instead of "low income" the building will just not have all of the amenities so many of these new complexes have: dog park, pool, rooftop deck, workout facility, etc.

"Affordable housing" isn't necessarily cheap. Some of the "affordable" units being proposed will rent for more than my monthly mortgage payment. Let's wait until we have more information before breaking out the pitchforks.

I agree with this. "Affordable housing" is vastly different from government subsidized housing. Typically when the term "low income" is used its meant to describe the latter. It would be great to have more affordable options downtown. It would open it up to people who currently can't afford to live in places like 430 lofts. However, government housing doesn't belong there and I hope the existing section 8 eventually gets bought up and gentrified. I went down to Midtown to photograph one day this summer and was followed around and harassed the entire time by people asking for money. There are large swaths that just don't feel safe.

catch22
12-04-2013, 09:42 AM
I don't make much money. I would actually probably qualify to live in low income housing if I did not still live at home.

I don't go to bail bonds, sex shops. I don't defecate in public or otherwise cause any trouble.

I arrive at work 30 minutes early and leave 15 minutes after my shift. I pick up all available overtime or shifts others don't want to work. I'm putting myself through a trade school in March, finishing up a certification that I dropped out of. With no assistance from family or the state.

Does it trouble you that I actually spend a lot of my free money in midtown... The plaza district... And uptown? Does it bother you that I drive to those districts and would it bother you more that I would like to live there if I could?

How does the amount of money I make classify me as a vagrant?

bchris02
12-04-2013, 09:53 AM
I don't make much money. I would actually probably qualify to live in low income housing if I did not still live at home.

I don't go to bail bonds, sex shops. I don't defecate in public or otherwise cause any trouble.

I arrive at work 30 minutes early and leave 15 minutes after my shift. I pick up all available overtime or shifts others don't want to work. I'm putting myself through a trade school in March, finishing up a certification that I dropped out of. With no assistance from family or the state.

Does it trouble you that I actually spend a lot of my free money in midtown... The plaza district... And uptown? Does it bother you that I drive to those districts and would it bother you more that I would like to live there if I could?

How does the amount of money I make classify me as a vagrant?

Congratulations on putting yourself through trade school. It would be great if there were more affordable options downtown so that you could live there with a roommate or two. I would like to be able to live downtown but can't afford it on my own.

What I am against is government subsidized housing.

onthestrip
12-04-2013, 10:18 AM
Congratulations on putting yourself through trade school. It would be great if there were more affordable options downtown so that you could live there with a roommate or two. I would like to be able to live downtown but can't afford it on my own.

What I am against is government subsidized housing.

So you would have no problem with an increase in the minimum wage to at least $10?

Apologies for possibly derailing the thread but wanted to know bchris02's thoughts on this.

PhiAlpha
12-04-2013, 10:22 AM
I thought you were going to "bow out" of this conversation. I'm seeing a lot of bowing in. Irritable bow syndrome?

I see what you did there! Yes I was planning to bow out but after being called a disgusting elitist in more then one post... The urge was just too much to resist.

PhiAlpha
12-04-2013, 10:30 AM
I don't make much money. I would actually probably qualify to live in low income housing if I did not still live at home.

I don't go to bail bonds, sex shops. I don't defecate in public or otherwise cause any trouble.

I arrive at work 30 minutes early and leave 15 minutes after my shift. I pick up all available overtime or shifts others don't want to work. I'm putting myself through a trade school in March, finishing up a certification that I dropped out of. With no assistance from family or the state.

Does it trouble you that I actually spend a lot of my free money in midtown... The plaza district... And uptown? Does it bother you that I drive to those districts and would it bother you more that I would like to live there if I could?

How does the amount of money I make classify me as a vagrant?

Again, If you want a apartment priced similarly to the lower cost apartments that will be offered at the steel yard, then great. If you want section 8 housing I would suggest looking at the available options already in place.

bchris02
12-04-2013, 10:42 AM
So you would have no problem with an increase in the minimum wage to at least $10?

Apologies for possibly derailing the thread but wanted to know bchris02's thoughts on this.

Increasing the minimum wage is an entirely different debate best left for the political forum. As it relates to section 8 though, I stand by the following.

1. It's not the taxpayer/government's duty to subsidize people living in their neighborhood of choice and those who pay for their own housing have the right to oppose government housing going into their neighborhood. If people were actually using government assistance as it was originally intended this wouldn't even be a debate.

2. While many people in section 8 projects are there legitimately and honorably, there are too many people who take advantage of the system and do nothing but cause trouble. If this is not the case, I would like to see an example where section 8 housing actually improved a community. If we want to see the end of downtown's renaissance, going the route of building government projects is the sure way to do it. Private developers aren't going to invest multi-millions to develop next to low-income or zero-income housing.

hoya
12-04-2013, 10:48 AM
I don't see any indication that this will be section 8 housing. If "low income housing" means you're paying $800 a month rent for a one bedroom instead of $1200 then it's something that is clearly needed. Not every person living downtown needs to be pulling down $80K at Devon. The people who work downtown in normal jobs should be able to live there too.

However I'm also sure people don't want to live right next door to my clients.

PWitty
12-04-2013, 10:55 AM
I'm going to jump in and say that I don't think anyone meant to offend anybody. Their point was that if OKC doesn't develop an area of concentrated wealth, then some of the big-time developments that other posters claim to want to have in OKC will never come to fruition. Take the Plaza in KC for example. I see a lot of posters who have mentioned that in the past as something that OKC doesn't have, and I'll be the first to say that the development of the Plaza did not come about because of a highly diversified income base. Pull out your Zillow app while you drive around that area and try and find any for sale real-estate under a million dollars. (Hint: There's not much.) Of course I wasn't alive when the Plaza was developed, so there may or may not have been a diversified real-estate base at the time, but that is besides the point.

My point is, nobody was trying to offend anybody. We all want the same thing.