I can testify to this. Walking back to my car from Zios last Sunday night, I was approached by a panhandler asking me for money....location: Renaissance Hotel. My wife and I quickly ran into the Renaissance Hotel. This is the 3rd time I've been approached by a panhandler outside the Renaissance Hotel.
On recent trips to Bricktown, I've been approached by several panhandlers near Earls BBQ. Personally I'm getting tired of this.

The city needs to act.

Here's downtownguy's recent entry on the issue:

Tuesday, July 19, 2005
"Being Poor, Being a Nuicance

It appears that the residents of The Montgomery are being harassed by panhandlers. KOCO tonight said they are being confronted for money, with panhandlers saying "go back inside, you live in an expensive apartment, you can afford to give me some."

I believe it. The panhandlers are getting worse. Let's not romanticize them as being the homeless. These people are either ill or they are con men. It's that simple. They don't want a home, they don't want help to get a better life. They want our money.

And with downtown's resurgence, they are looking for suckers. So what can we do? I'm not hearing any constructive ideas from the civil liberties crowd. They seem to say the same old things over and over again... "the cities just want to hide the poor" (my response: being a panhandler and con artist isn't the same as being poor. Someone who is working their butt off at two jobs, suffering indignities at McDonalds to make $5.15 an hour - that's being poor).
If we want to see more old downtown buildings converted into upscale housing, a lot of people argue we must do something about these panhandlers very very soon. So let's see what's being done elsewhere:


from the June 23, 2005 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0623/p02s01-ussc.html

"Cities adopt tough stance against beggars
Municipalities are making arrests under 'aggressive panhandling' laws despite freedom of speech concerns.

By Patrik Jonsson | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

RALEIGH, N.C. - As one of 85 licensed panhandlers in Raleigh, Leon Black is supposed to stay off the streets at night and keep mum as he rattles his cup.
But following that rule would keep him away from his best market - late-night club-hoppers. "Got some change?" he asks with a hangdog face from the sidewalk, courteously breaking the rules.

It's the plight of the panhandler: silenced, sidelined, and maligned. But with up to $150 a day at stake, Mr. Black, who spends $90 a week for a bed in a flophouse, says it's a job like any other.

Thirteen years after the courts struck down New York's draconian antipanhandling laws, the age-old issue of how to deal with the lowest rungs of the American economy is once again at the top of municipal agendas as lawmakers focus anew on freeloaders, flimflam men, and "unsolicited service providers," who pretend to be tour guides. To get around First Amendment protections, cities across the country are prosecuting new "aggressive panhandling" rules that focus on public safety and the greater economic good, all in order to deal with the No. 1 visitor complaint to American urban areas: too many people scrounging for change.
But is it really legal for municipalities to corner the market and silence street-savvy entrepreneurs who exhibit tenacious tactics similar to those that Americans cherish in their corporate boardrooms?

"In general, public parks, sidewalks, and streets are places where First Amendment rights are still zealously protected in this country," says Ed Johnson, a lawyer for the Oregon Law Center in Portland, which represents the homeless. "The government can make reasonable restrictions on those rights as long as there's some kind of compelling government interest - but that's where the issue gets blurry."

So far, cities have managed to avoid First Amendment challenges by citing broader societal damage from panhandlers - including safety concerns. Over concerns of the impact on the local economy, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., made its five-mile strip of beach off-limits to panhandlers. Orlando, Fla., has swept out beggars from certain parts of town, instead setting aside "blue box" zones where soliciting is allowed. As a result, the number of panhandlers has dropped to almost zero around tourist attractions.

Raleigh and Greensboro, N.C., license their beggars, but admit it's mainly a means to control aggressive behavior. Minneapolis, Portland, Ore., Nashville, Tenn., and Evanston, Ill., are other cities in the process of cracking down on begging that bothers tourists.

For many cities, panhandling is more than a grubstake: Too many people asking for a few bucks could cost the city thousands in lost in revenue. For instance, tourism officials in Atlanta claim that the city this year lost three conventions because of its gung-ho army of panhandlers who cluster downtown. At the same time, panhandlers are increasingly seen as successful opportunists: One beggar in Atlanta boasted on TV last week that he made $300 a day working in the shadows of the CNN Center.

On Monday, the issue intensified when Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin proposed one of the toughest new anti-panhandling efforts in the country. Coinciding with the opening of a new 24/7 city homeless center, the proposed rules would create a beggar-free "tourist triangle" in the busiest corner of the city. In other areas, panhandlers would be able to sit with a cup - but could not make any aggressive gestures that could scare tourists, such as following, gesturing, or even talking.
The new law, which will be discussed further before a final vote, would also outlaw outright street cons. In fact, the man outside Atlanta's City Hall who pushes his wheelchair home at the end of his shift could find himself being arrested for impersonating a handicapped person.

Despite continued criticism and possible court challenges, business advocates say these new ordinances are a breakthrough compromise between two compelling interests: the sanctity of public streets and commercial interests that keep the local economy afloat."We think this is huge," says Dave Wardell, vice president of public safety at Central Atlanta Progress, a downtown business consortium. "There are still particular spots where you can actually beg and solicit and they're reasonably placed to ... satisfy First Amendment concerns."
Critics say that the new rules are simply a more nuanced way for powerful business interests to sweep the poor out of sight. Others say the fight against aggressive panhandling has racial overtones since most panhandlers are African-American.

These sensitivities are now being played out in the courts. A New York judge earlier this month threw out seven recent panhandling convictions against Bronx panhandler Eddie Wise and more than a hundred others, because the charges were brought under a law that was found unconstitutional in 1992.""

Amen to whats said here. This is exactly the reason that I have problems with that area. Tons of panhandlers around the busstation as well. Not only is it annoying but sounds like they are becoming threatening as well. I don't see people wanting to move into an high rent area simply to be locked up in their apartments all night so as to not be annoyed. Something definately should be done.

I have been approached several times near the hotel and convention center.

Homelessness has always been a problem downtown, however with the influx of people and money downtown after 5 p.m. panhandeling will most likely continue to be an issue.

Aside from draconian enforcement there is not a whole lot that can be done. This is true for just about every American city.

The problem is the fact the state does not have a strong law against panhandling, and the city is requirered to follow state law.

That and the fact the liberals are coddeling these bums. We need to go back to the days of the vagrant sweeps and cuff and stuff them. They are a safety and health hazard.

No Generalizations about liberals are necessary...broad statements like that are just not logical

I am a liberal, and I don't like panhandling. However, some people are down on their luck. Also large numbers of the homeless population are mentally ill.

Tougher laws would help, but a little compasion works too

Actually, compassion does not really work with the people that are being spoken of here, they lie to get money, and then they will lie 2 minutes later to get more. The ones I have seen are not incapable of working at all. It is sad that some people are mentally ill/homeless, but more often in the area being spoken off, its just panhandling plain and simple.

Let me share a story. A true story.

My cousin owned a BarBque restaurant in Eureka, California. It was located next door to an Irish Pub. On the block were a lot of vagrants. Bums. They would panhandle in front of Dave's restaurant and harass the customers. The police would not do anything.

One day, Dave and I were crossing the street and a woman was acosted by one of these bums. She gave him $10.00. Dave looked at her and said "see that where he is going (as he walked into the Pub)? That is where your money went."

Dave had very well known customers. Among them were Dustin Hoffman and Nora Dunn (SNL). They refused to come back because of the bum problem. Dave contimued to get numerous complaints on that very subject. We tried in vein to find a new location, but nothing was available that was any good.

One year after that incident, Smokey's closed forever. The city and county still does NOTHING to curb this problem.

No. These are pests. They are VERY unhealthy and dangerous. I am not in the mood to walk down a street and trip over these things littering the sidewalks.

I have NO "compassion" at all for these bums.

I work hard for my money. I do not have the time, nor desire to support these bums.

What gets me is that panhandling isn't illegal. In fact, you're now required to get a license to legally panhandle in OKC. Whoa! Hold on a minute. A license? What?

Plain and simple, we need to outlaw panhandling in OKC and enforce the law.

Again generalizations...I agree, some panhandlers are just trying to make a quick buck, please stop grouping people together like that.

There are plenty of homeless people who just need help. If you need some assitance in learning this fact may I recomend volunteering at the City Rescue Mission check it out at cityrescue.org

Thanks okiepus, good points. Some of these people may be "con men" or mentally ill, but they are not "things". I work hard too, but I refuse to lower myself to calling people, regardless of what you think of them "pests" or "things." You cannot outlaw panhandling without infringing on free speech. That's what the Supreme Court says. Every growing, thriving city has a problem with this...ours less than others.

" You cannot outlaw panhandling without infringing on free speech. That's what the Supreme Court says."

That is strange. There are a large number of cities and towns with panhandeling ordinances. And NOT ONE person has attempted to challange them. Even liberals.

I live at the Montgomery and agree that the panhandling is a problem. The best strategy, from a law perspective, is to initiate an "aggressive panhandling" law. This can usually be justified by balancing public safety, etc against free speach rights. The truth underlying all the legal talk is that no one has a right to harass someone else. People with money do not "owe" poor people money; they may choose to donate money but that is their choice and their choice alone. Having someone follow you down the street late at night when there is no help in sight is a scary experience. I dont care whether you are liberal or conservative, it is a scary experience and needs to be stopped.

I'm the cripple on the corner,
You've passed me on the street.
And I wouldn't be out here beggin',
If I had enough to eat.
And don't think I don't notice,
That our eyes never meet.


I lost my wife and little boy when
Someone crossed that yellow line.
The day we laid them in the ground,
Is the day I lost my mind.
And right now I'm down to holdin'
This little cardboard sign.
so...


Don't laugh at me,
Don't call me names.
Don't get your pleasure from my pain,
In God's eyes we're all the same.
Someday we'll all have perfect wings,
Don't laugh at me.


I'm fat, I'm thin, I'm short, I'm tall,
I'm deaf, I'm blind, hey, aren't we all.
Don't laugh at me,
Don't call me names.
Don't get your pleasure from my pain,
In God's eyes we're all the same.
Someday we'll all have perfect wings,
Don't laugh at me.

I agree that some people are not acting in a responsible way by asking for money. But there are circumstances out of their control - I like this idea:

"Historically, [San Francisco] had the worst street homelessness problem in our country," said Philip Mangano (search (javascript:siteSearch('Philip Mangano');)), executive director of the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness (http://www.ich.gov/). "But it's had some of the most innovative ideas."
The city replaced welfare handouts with initiatives such as the controversial "Care not Cash" program, which provides housing and other support services; and "Project Homeless Connect," which enlists corporate volunteers to help the homeless find jobs.

"The greater involvement of the business community and the public is one of the challenges around our country," said Mangano, a former music agent who was appointed by President Bush in 2002. "That's why 'Project Connect' is so important. It brings the business community and the public into that larger partnership with government to get the job done."

"It's not only the individuals we're serving, it's the people that are helping serve those individuals whose lives are changing because thousands of them now feel empowered and part of the solution," said San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom.

Karried, I don't think any of us here are looking down on these panhandlers the way you suggest with that poem. The fact is that these people are making it unsafe or at least making it feel unsafe downtown. I've been to London and San Francisco and didn't feel as in danger as I have at times in downtown OKC. We have to do something to curb this problem. The ones that are mentally ill need to be in homes or missions and we need to help the ones that truly need help, but the ones that are just harassing pedestrians and drivers so they can go drink and then go home--they need to be fined/arrested/sent home, whatever.

I think you make a good point though that it's not about money it's about programs that help these people by training them in new skills and providing temporary housing.

Send them to the Dungeon.

Dungeon Master

No, I don't think all people are looking down on these people, that's a popular song by the way. My point was that there are circumstances surrounding some of these people and it doesn't help to generalize and stereotype and make them all out to be criminals - that bothers me a lot (it could very easily be one of us one day needing help).

Have you ever missed a meal or two and felt those hunger pangs kick in, the headaches, fatigue? I sometimes look at these people and think, they must be so very hungry... what a sad, sad life.

I vote for trying to get them help - not criminalize them.

Let me tell everyone who is defeding this behavior a couple of stories.

Theres one of these guys that frequents the area spoken of. One day shortly after starting to work downtown, he stopped me, told me his sad story of being laid off and such, and I gave him some money. The guy is still doing the same thing now, its a year later. Don't tell me there are not jobs out there. I actually keep waiting for the guy to hit me up again so I can tell him that I'd already heard his story.

Let me tell you another one. There was a guy who hit my boss up and told her how HUNGRY he was, and asked if she would PLEASE give him some money. You know what? She did better than most. She offered to take him across the street to chik-fil-a for food. Suprisingly, the guy was no longer starving at that point. He wanted money, not the food she was going to give him.

I do not disagree that there are homeless out there, however the homeless do tend, as you say, to go to the city rescue mission. I've been there, I know how it is. I also know that the people that hang out near the montgomery are not the same people. They are pandhandlers, they ARE pests. I did not say they aren't human, but you can be human and a pest to. Please don't be blind. Help the homeless, don't encourage swindlers.

Let me tell everyone who is defeding this behavior a couple of stories.

Theres one of these guys that frequents the area spoken of. One day shortly after starting to work downtown, he stopped me, told me his sad story of being laid off and such, and I gave him some money. The guy is still doing the same thing now, its a year later. Don't tell me there are not jobs out there. I actually keep waiting for the guy to hit me up again so I can tell him that I'd already heard his story.

Let me tell you another one. There was a guy who hit my boss up and told her how HUNGRY he was, and asked if she would PLEASE give him some money. You know what? She did better than most. She offered to take him across the street to chik-fil-a for food. Suprisingly, the guy was no longer starving at that point. He wanted money, not the food she was going to give him.

I do not disagree that there are homeless out there, however the homeless do tend, as you say, to go to the city rescue mission. I've been there, I know how it is. I also know that the people that hang out near the montgomery are not the same people. They are pandhandlers, they ARE pests. I did not say they aren't human, but you can be human and a pest to. Please don't be blind. Help the homeless, don't encourage swindlers.
Years ago, a homeless man came by our church looking for a "meal." He reaked of alcohol and was rather dirty. Our pastor stepped outside and started talking to him. The man said that all he wanted was a burger, fries, and a drink. Our pastor gave him $5.00, and offered to take him to Mcdonalds. The man refused the ride, however, he wanted the money.

Our pastor then told the man that he expected him to buy food with the $5.00, and not buy alcohol. The man promised that he would do that. Our pastor last words to him were..."God is watching you very closely, and he expects you to use that money for food. If you buy alcohol with that money, God will be not be happy with you, and I sure would not want to be in your shoes if he pours out his wrath on you." It wasn't meant as a scare tactic...it was meant for the man to think about how God provided money to him, by a pastor, for a meal.

I agree that something has to be done about beggars. We even have this problem in Stillwater.

I came up with a creative solution for the panhandling problem in Stillwater a couple of months back and made an informational video on it. As soon as I find a way to host the video file, I will post it. You will find it entertaining and thought-provoking.

I agree that something has to be done about beggars. We even have this problem in Stillwater.

I came up with a creative solution for the panhandling problem in Stillwater a couple of months back and made an informational video on it. As soon as I find a way to host the video file, I will post it. You will find it entertaining and thought-provoking.

Load the video into your computer on wmv (windows media viewer), then post it to the Photo Gallery like you are posting a picture.

If a video file isn't too large, you can also host it on putfile.com. It has to be 10 meg or less I believe.

If a video file isn't too large, you can also host it on putfile.com. It has to be 10 meg or less I believe.

I have never heard of that one. The information Patrick gave was information I asked him to tell CuatrodeMayo, based on the fact I am the only one to ever upload a video on OKC Talk.

In other words, I am not sure your website will work to upload here.

I have never heard of that one. The information Patrick gave was information I asked him to tell CuatrodeMayo, based on the fact I am the only one to ever upload a video on OKC Talk.

I tried to watch that video to see if it works, but I just got the audio (I think). It may just be this computer. How big a file is it?

I don't have the video with me at work right now but we're looking at about 128mb so it might be too big. I will have to go home tonight and see if I can compress/reformat it.

I tried to watch that video to see if it works, but I just got the audio (I think). It may just be this computer. How big a file is it?

I don't have the video with me at work right now but we're looking at about 128mb so it might be too big.

Bricktown is just over 4mb, and Will Rogers is just over one mb. To see the video, you must have a video card installed in the computer. I do not think there is a limit on size. The one I am doing as a gift to Dell is 13mb, but I am not going to upload it.

MrAnderson, putfile.com is a place you can upload some videos and host them, then you just put the link to them on here and then everyone can get to them. Very nice for something you want to show to people and then forget about it.

A few years ago, an attorney in our church tried to help a panhandler that frequented the 39th and N. May area. He put him up in a hotel room and bought him food to eat. He spoke with the manager at the Dairy Queen close by, and the manager was willing to buy him clothes and offer him a job. Needless to say, the homeless man didn't want to work. He refused the job.

My wife is afraid to go to a few stores or even get gas on 23rd by herself, because she always gets approached for money, and she's afraid that one day someone may become violent. She's had someone approach her car as she was parking and getting ready to go into a store. She didn't have any extra money and didn't want to tell him all she had was money for her items, she tried to ignore him by sitting in the car. And this guy actually sat on the curb next to the car, and was waiting for her to open the door. Finally she drove off.

Another time I was leaving my office at the devon building, and going to my car, that I'd parked in front. It was maybe 8ish outside and I was approached by a guy wanting a couple bucks, (all I had was some change in the car). Then he asked if I could just give him a ride to Del City. It wasn't too far outta my way, as I was heading that direction, and he didn't seem to be a threat (I figured I could get first jump on him in case something happened) So as soon as he got in my car, he changed his story and needed a ride to the east side of Tinker. (which was out of the way), When I told him that Tinker is not the direction I was heading he then just wanted a ride to the Mcdonalds downtown (sheridan area). At this point I was on guard waiting for anything. But I agreed to take him the 2miles to the mcdonalds, where supposedly now one of his friends was going to take him to tinker.

As I was taking him there, he found the change I'd promised him in my car (in my coin drawer between the seats, and started helping himself to all of it) mainly pennies, but at least a couple bucks in silver. So while he's telling me about his friend and taking all my change, he changes his mind again and wants me to make left turn down an alley, and he'd walk. At this point I turned on my flashers and pulled over to the side of the road under the streetlight, around a lotta traffic, and told him this is as far as I can take him. He still wanted me to take him to the alley, and I was seriously getting ready to physically remove him from my car, when he said he'd just walk the rest of the way, and got out. Then he looked at how much change he had grabbed that was pennies and seemed to get upset that I didn't have any more silver. (was probably $3.00 in pennies, I'm telling you he just kept grabbing and shoving it in his pockets, if you've ever grabbed 300 pennies from out of a coin tray, you can understand what I'm saying) Anyways he left, I calmed down and went home.

I'm a fairly large guy, honestly I'd consider myself rather intimidating, but even I get into a defensive mode by some of these more aggresive people.
What we have decided to do is only give gift cards. No change, no money. And if we don't have any gift cards on us, We tell them we don't have any gift cards, and that's all we give away. It's really simple. Buy some $5 gift cards from mcdonald's, walmart, whereever. Then pass them out based on the person's need.

I consider myself compassionate, and I fully understand that life happens. But at the same time I believe we should do whatever we can to pull ourselves up from out of whatever situation we find ourselves in. It most times won't be instantly, but there should be some attempt to better oneself.


I don't know how to fix the problem with the aggresive abusers. But even the bible says if you don't work, you don't eat. You can work and still be poor, and God Bless those people, as they are the one's I'd like to help.

ibda12u, that was a nice storey. i actually learned from it.

I think getting the gift cards is a great idea. take care.

I-44 and N. Penn usually has two or three on each corner. I usually throw whatever drink I'm drinking at them. What are they going to do, pull out their cell phones and call the cops?

Please tell me you are joking? If you are not joking here's something to think about.

They may not pull out a cell phone but a Magnum 357 might not be something you want to be staring down the barrel of...

I-44 and N. Penn usually has two or three on each corner. I usually throw whatever drink I'm drinking at them. What are they going to do, pull out their cell phones and call the cops?

I suppose they could file a complaint with the up and coming panhandler's union! lol!

ibda12u, that was a nice storey. i actually learned from it.

I think getting the gift cards is a great idea. take care.

I concur! I think McDonalds gift certificates are probably the best option, especially since they don't serve liquor. Problem with Wal-Mart gift cards is they can still by alcohol with them. I believe Mick Cornett and company is trying to come up with a plan where you can purchase coupon books for a small price that would include free dinners at City Rescue Mission and bus tokens. Handing these out instead of money might reduce the pandhandler problem, especialyl for those simply wanting money.

A guy in my medical school class lives at Regency Towers. He finally got tired of the bums asking him for money everyday. He told one guy he'd save him the trouble....he went up to his apartment and brought down a bottle of beer and gave him.