"Norman City Council Votes To Close Public Buildings As Storm Shelters

Posted: Oct 09, 2013 7:21 PM CDT
Updated: Oct 09, 2013 7:21 PM CDT
By News9.com - email


NORMAN, Oklahoma - The Norman City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to no longer open public buildings as storm shelters, instead recommending a "Shelter in Place" tornado plan.
The issue was first brought up by the Norman fire chief back in March.

Fire Chief James Fullingim said then families would be safer staying at home than at that city's public storm shelters, that the city's public shelters were not designed to withstand the impact of a tornado"

- Norman City Council Votes To Close Public Buildings As Shelters - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/23651904/norman-city-council-votes-to-close-public-buildings-as-storm-shelters)

I agree with this decision. It is better for people to have a plan of action instead of relying on driving to the city buildings for shelter. I think that is more dangerous. The state really needs to mandate every new house to have storm shelters as well as having large storm shelters for schools, apartments, office complexes etc. There should also be a rebate for people who truly cannot afford a storm shelter.

I agree with that also, Plupan.

Long expected vote...no shock with the outcome. A common sense decision.

lol, if you want a good chuckle, read a few of the News9 comments. I know people here have told me, mind attention to them, but they are interesting.

the comments are hilarious.

Proper decision. By not having public shelters it discourages folks from getting on the road in a vehicle during tornadic weather.

While I agree that they should close them and people should take care of shelter themselves, I'm against mandating new homes have them. Now that is not to say new homes shouldn't have them, I think everyone should consider putting them in when they build a new home, as they cost even less when you do them and the house is new, but I'm against the government forcing people to build one. I'd rather see some kind of rebate for people that do build them.

Won't OU have buildings with basements open that will let the public in during tornado threats?

Just wait until a bunch of people are killed when a perfectly safe building was locked to keep them out. Then we will see how smart the idea was. If the Fire Chief is right and the buildings aren't safe during a tornado what do the people who work in the buildings do, shelter in place like he said?

Just wait until a bunch of people are killed when a perfectly safe building was locked to keep them out. Then we will see how smart the idea was.

that's what happened in moore at the 7-11, no public shelters and people thought it was safe to take cover in 7-11, thank god the center of the hospital wasn't taken out because a lot of people ran there for shelter as well

Just wait until a bunch of people are killed when a perfectly safe building was locked to keep them out. Then we will see how smart the idea was. If the Fire Chief is right and the buildings aren't safe during a tornado what do the people who work in the buildings do, shelter in place like he said?

It's much less likely that a bunch of people will be killed if they are spread out in their homes or businesses.

I agree with Norman and other cities that have done away with these shelters. But I also think that the cities need to stand up and enforce, and require, stricter building codes to make all places safer. I'm not talking safe rooms/underground shelters. Hurricane straps and foundation tie-downs, amongst other things, are relatively inexpensive and easy to install.

Also, I just simply do not understand it when people say they don't want the government telling them how to build the house/commercial structure. It should be a condition of response - you want fire/rescue response, then build it to code so that there's less likelihood of them even needing to help. When they do respond, it'll be because it's a catastrophic event.

I also think that the cities need to stand up and enforce, and require, stricter building codes to make all places safer. I'm not talking safe rooms/underground shelters. Hurricane straps and foundation tie-downs, amongst other things, are relatively inexpensive and easy to install.



This ^
Stronger building codes keep people safer, reduce damage, lower the burden on the tax payer and on other social services. They would reduce the lost lives and injuries.... In the long run stronger building codes would pay for them self’s with lower medical bills. deaths and less property damage.

If we were more proactive in this area maybe we would not hear outsiders on national TV asking why would anyone live in Oklahoma? Publicity like this in its own way causes damage.

But this needs to be done on a state wide level with new state laws.

Like I said, wait until a couple of people are killed hiding in their mobile home and the national media finds out Norman closed all the public shelters. The City better go ahead are write their press release now so they don't have to throw something together in front of 500 cameras.

This ^
Stronger building codes keep people safer, reduce damage, lower the burden on the tax payer and on other social services. They would reduce the lost lives and injuries.... In the long run stronger building codes would pay for them self’s with lower medical bills. deaths and less property damage.

If we were more proactive in this area maybe we would not hear outsiders on national TV asking why would anyone live in Oklahoma? Publicity like this in its own way causes damage.

But this needs to be done on a state wide level with new state laws.

Yeah, while I don't see a problem with shelters in all new housing construction, as it adds (comparatively) so little extra to the new home building cost, I'd be more interested though in things that could reduce home/property damage, overall, like was mentioned. I don't expect a house to withstand an f4/f5, but it should be affordable and feasible to withstand the smaller tornadoes and wind damage (although this is honestly something I don't know a whole lot about).

Like I said, wait until a couple of people are killed hiding in their mobile home and the national media finds out Norman closed all the public shelters. The City better go ahead are write their press release now so they don't have to throw something together in front of 500 cameras.

link to the release from any other city .. being that most have closed their public shelters

Like I said, wait until a couple of people are killed hiding in their mobile home and the national media finds out Norman closed all the public shelters. The City better go ahead are write their press release now so they don't have to throw something together in front of 500 cameras.

I'm pretty sure the mobile home parks in Norman are required to have storm shelters....
And I believe there is a new state law that in part covers this too?

With the increased warning times a on the large tornadoes a one size fits all approach on this issue doesn’t work.

Closing public shelters in suburban and urban environments is probably the right thing to do....
But in most small towns public shelters should still be encouraged.

The News 9 comments are just...well typical.

Janet Martin Green (https://www.facebook.com/janet.martingreen)Sounds like something the city of Norman would do.....put people in danger. What the hell is someone supposed to do if they don't have a shelter or are driving and need a quick place to go? Are they going to make the people that work in those buildings to seek shelter elsewhere as well?


Chances are if a person is out driving around, they aren't going to have it in the forefront of their mind where the nearest city building is. We also don't need people leaving their homes to go to a shelter.

Sigh. If people are worried about shelters...get them installed at home. I'm split on the requirement of a storm shelter at home. Though honestly...and I mean this with zero disrespect...if you live in Moore and you aren't strongly considering putting a shelter in by now, what is the matter with you? You live in a city that on average is hit by a tornado once every 3 years. People complain about the government/city not caring and putting their citizens in danger...all I can do is shake my head.

Norman Fire Chief - Close public shelters because they can't withstand a tornado. Instead, shelter in place.
Employee in public building - I have to shelter in place in a building I was just told wasn't safe?

Norman Fire Chief - Close public shelters because they can't withstand a tornado. Instead, shelter in place.
Employee in public building - I have to shelter in place in a building I was just told wasn't safe?

It probably is a liability and also a space issue.

Norman Fire Chief - Close public shelters because they can't withstand a tornado. Instead, shelter in place.
Employee in public building - I have to shelter in place in a building I was just told wasn't safe?

His reasoning may be partially misstated. OKC doesn't have public storm shelters because it doesn't want people unnecessarily out on the streets. Further, it also concentrates people in one location where, if a catastrophic event were to occur, would inflict much greater harm.

All new construction in Oklahoma should required to have reasonable access to storm shelters IMHO....
This would include most places of work / business.

His reasoning may be partially misstated. OKC doesn't have public storm shelters because it doesn't want people unnecessarily out on the streets. Further, it also concentrates people in one location where, if a catastrophic event were to occur, would inflict much greater harm.

You realize what you're arguing right?

You realize what you're arguing right?

No, enlighten me, king Kerry.

Density is the key to safety. If you make the target big enough it is easier to hit. Statistically you would be better off putting every Norman resident in the same building than spreading them out across 20,000 buildings.

I understand the city's decision, but at the same time I feel sorry for anyone who lives in an apartment complex in Norman. A lot of the older ones look like they wouldn't provide much protection from anything let alone a strong tornado. Is it really best that these folks shelter in place, especially if they're on a second or third floor? I wouldn't want to do it.

There is no real guarantee that any structure will survive a tornado. Large buildings are not exactly any safer than small buildings just because many have flat roofs and that roof is going to be the first thing to go. When the roof goes, chances our most people will be in an open area where debris is going to be flying everywhere.

I know many people are on a kick to build shelters at every school but, in the end that may be a waste of money because some schools and construction companies will cut corners to save money. Safe rooms have survived on the small scale but not on the large scale. Not to mention it may be 20-30 years before a tornado hits and destroys the school taking the same room with it or dropping brick, steel. cars in the parking lot and anything else in the area crashing down on the safe room or shelter.

I think a better option would be tornado days to be used because the meteorologist were pretty accurate this past season. They had it down to the day and almost to the hour and time the storms would hit. Having Severe Storm days on the books like Snow Days would allow kids to be at home where they have a stronger chance of surviving. If I remember right most people at home at the time of the tornado in Moore survived. Most of the injuries and fatalities were at the schools and in businesses.

Sooner or later the day will come when people die in safe rooms or shelters. The best thing you can do is shelter in place as we have always been told to do. Pick the smallest room, lowest level and pray that you are not in the direct path.

I avoid the public shelters for one reason. If the tornado destroys the building or traps people in the shelter you can guarantee the majority of the people inside will switch into panic mode. Then people will die from suffocation and being trampled to death. I would much rather take my chances with the winds of a tornado then be stuck with 100 people fighting to get out. Not to mention if one tornado is on the ground there is a pretty good chance others could come with it. It's just too risky in my opinion to commute to a shelter.

One thing that disturbs me are the people that flock to hospitals when a tornado warning has been declared. That is the most selfish thing people can do. Before the hospital can treat anyone they have to do crowd control and that could put peoples lives in jeopardy.

If your that scared about surviving a tornado you need to buy a storm shelter or move somewhere that has one already installed. If you live in an apartment like I do. You should probably be making plans to go to a friend or family members house long before the tornado warning has been issued.

There is no real guarantee that any structure will survive a tornado. Large buildings are not exactly any safer than small buildings just because many have flat roofs and that roof is going to be the first thing to go. When the roof goes, chances our most people will be in an open area where debris is going to be flying everywhere.

I know many people are on a kick to build shelters at every school but, in the end that may be a waste of money because some schools and construction companies will cut corners to save money. Safe rooms have survived on the small scale but not on the large scale. Not to mention it may be 20-30 years before a tornado hits and destroys the school taking the same room with it or dropping brick, steel. cars in the parking lot and anything else in the area crashing down on the safe room or shelter.

I think a better option would be tornado days to be used because the meteorologist were pretty accurate this past season. They had it down to the day and almost to the hour and time the storms would hit. Having Severe Storm days on the books like Snow Days would allow kids to be at home where they have a stronger chance of surviving. If I remember right most people at home at the time of the tornado in Moore survived. Most of the injuries and fatalities were at the schools and in businesses.

Sooner or later the day will come when people die in safe rooms or shelters. The best thing you can do is shelter in place as we have always been told to do. Pick the smallest room, lowest level and pray that you are not in the direct path.

I avoid the public shelters for one reason. If the tornado destroys the building or traps people in the shelter you can guarantee the majority of the people inside will switch into panic mode. Then people will die from suffocation and being trampled to death. I would much rather take my chances with the winds of a tornado then be stuck with 100 people fighting to get out. Not to mention if one tornado is on the ground there is a pretty good chance others could come with it. It's just too risky in my opinion to commute to a shelter.

One thing that disturbs me are the people that flock to hospitals when a tornado warning has been declared. That is the most selfish thing people can do. Before the hospital can treat anyone they have to do crowd control and that could put peoples lives in jeopardy.

If your that scared about surviving a tornado you need to buy a storm shelter or move somewhere that has one already installed. If you live in an apartment like I do. You should probably be making plans to go to a friend or family members house long before the tornado warning has been issued.

I agree with a lot of what you said here. It is almost uncanny how accurate they were in predicting what they did. This season certainly seemed to have storms to match the hype (mostly -- I'd hate to fan the ratings machines).

I would agree with the thoughts that we need Severe Storm days in our public schools.....
But particularly if the school doesn’t have a certified storm shelter.

But we also need to be a lot more liberal about letting people leave work without fear of relational from the boss...
Again, this is particularly true if the work place doesn’t have a certified storm shelter.

We have reached a point where we almost always have good warnings for the strong tornadoes....

Stronger building codes and requiring that all most all new occupied structures have reasonable access to certified storm shelters is the next logical step in the protection life and property.

Interesting read.

Chuck's Chatter: Public tornado shelters - Not necessarily a good idea! (http://cadiiitalk.blogspot.com/2013/10/public-tornado-shelters-not-necessarily.html)