View Full Version : Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers to Save Family



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Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 11:24 AM
I plan on buying my first bike within the next couple of months. I am not sure whether or not I'm going for a Harley or Ducati, just fyi in case people wonder whether I'm biased towards bikes.

I am on the side of the guy in the Range Rover. These bikers were taking up the entire highway and acting like they owned the road. If it were me personally, I would've ran them all over as they were chasing me, while waiting for the cops to catch up. Speaking of which, where the hell were the cops???? Seeing as this was in NYC, they were probably busy rounding up the people with over sized soft drinks.

Judge for yourself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNOyDMzn2bY

jerrywall
10-01-2013, 11:40 AM
The trouble is, there doesn't seem to be any back story. What happened before the video started? I felt like I was coming in on the middle of the story.

That being said, I ride regularly, and with large groups. We manage to stay in a single lane, and ride in tight formations. This type of all over the highway mess would never happen in any group ride I was participating in (and if it did, I'd leave).

The other side of these incident, is that even with a proper and tight formation, cars will move in and break into the middle of the pack, causing bikers to have to swerve, or go down, merely because they don't pay attention or know how to share the road. Hell, I was in a funeral procession for a biker a few years ago, and a car moved INTO the funeral procession, killing two more bikers in the process. And the funny thing is, they don't charge folks like that with murder, or take away their licenses.

venture
10-01-2013, 11:42 AM
For those that want more of the actual story: Video Shows Motorcyclists Pull Driver from Car in NYC, Beat Him - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/video-shows-motorcyclists-pull-driver-car-beat/story?id=20419705)

BBatesokc
10-01-2013, 11:45 AM
I hear at least one biker is already in custody with more to follow.

Too bad the driver didn't have a gun and couldn't have simply shot anyone posing an immediate threat - like the one's opening his door or striking his glass with their helmets and/or fists.

I hope some biker groups come forward and condemn the actions of these nuts with bikes and offer something up.

venture
10-01-2013, 11:45 AM
Depending what all was going on, if the the SUV driver thought he family was threatened or actually were being threatened...then you do what you must to protect them and get away. If that means mowing down a bunch of bikers coming after you, so be it. I had read somewhere that one of the bikers were killed, but it isn't in the ABC story so who knows if it was true or not.

jerrywall
10-01-2013, 11:47 AM
I also found this article -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/nyregion/motorcyclists-assault-suv-driver-after-chase-uptown-police-say.html?_r=1&

I still can't find an explanation for why they surround and stop in front of the SUV in the first place. That's what is not making any sense to me. If they just did that randomly for kicks, then stupid bikers. If they did it for a reason, still stupid bikers, but I wouldn't mind knowing why (did he previously clip someone and take off, or what).

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 11:54 AM
Ok so


The information posted with the video claimed that a biker was killed when he was hit by the Range Rover, but police said that was not true.They're liars and assuming the worst, that would only be with a hidden or biased agenda. Protect the bikers that were acting like lunatics.

For me, the driver stayed in his lane even when more bikers rode right up next against his car after he ran them down, so he is just trying to get away. If he was acting like a jerk, if the bikers were smart, they would back off and call the police. Not surround him when he is in a 5,000lb truck. Seriously, how stupid can you get? I want to know. . .

These bikers are just nobodies who went looking for trouble and they had make the biggest case out of nothing. I wouldn't doubt that one of them might of been cut off at one point, but goddamn, they were taking up the entire highway, how would you not expect one of them to get cut off at one point in the ride. People cut other people off, don't be a freakin cry baby, it happens to me all the time, even when I've ridden before. I have people come within distance of swiping me with their mirrors in Edmond sometimes when I'm riding, but I don't make a big deal out of it, what good will it do?

These bikers are lucky I was not in the Range Rover, I will say that much, and I'm not just trying to act like some badass on the internet. The one thing I would like to know is where were the cops? NYC has more police officers than any city in the world, and they couldn't catch up to them? It doesn't make sense. This might be one of those stories we won't ever know anything about and will fade away in a few days, but eh, it's an interesting story.

jerrywall
10-01-2013, 11:57 AM
Like I said, I didn't make any excuses for the bikers. All over the highway, and what they did, no matter what the reason, was stupid. But I'd still like to know the reason.

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 11:58 AM
I also found this article -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/nyregion/motorcyclists-assault-suv-driver-after-chase-uptown-police-say.html?_r=1&

I still can't find an explanation for why they surround and stop in front of the SUV in the first place. That's what is not making any sense to me. If they just did that randomly for kicks, then stupid bikers. If they did it for a reason, still stupid bikers, but I wouldn't mind knowing why (did he previously clip someone and take off, or what).I would really like to know that as well. I can only make, what I presume to be, accurate assumptions. I'm sorry though, the way these bikers conducted themselves, I would believe the guy who had his family in his car over a gang of bikers. I would more so believe they would commit a random act over a guy with his family in the car trying to intimidate a large gang of bikers. Who knows. . .

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 11:58 AM
Like I said, I didn't make any excuses for the bikers. All over the highway, and what they did, no matter what the reason, was stupid. But I'd still like to know the reason.I understand, I agree with you. I'd really like to know what happened too! :)

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 11:59 AM
Depending what all was going on, if the the SUV driver thought he family was threatened or actually were being threatened...then you do what you must to protect them and get away. If that means mowing down a bunch of bikers coming after you, so be it. I had read somewhere that one of the bikers were killed, but it isn't in the ABC story so who knows if it was true or not.According to ABC news article, no one was killed, which is good. I don't agree with killing anyone, unless it is absolutely necessary, to protect yourself and/or others.

BBatesokc
10-01-2013, 12:00 PM
From what I've heard reported, the driver had placed a 911 call just prior to this incident. I wouldn't be surprised if the driver made some editorial gestures towards the bikers or otherwise let them know of his displeasure and they took offense and crossed the line.

The driver only hit the first biker in the video after he obviously tried to make him stop in the middle of the highway.

Someone attempts to make me stop and they are not a cop - I'm driving through them because their intentions are not good.

I could also see a scenario where the driver inadvertently cut off a biker etc and the bikers overreacted.

Regardless, the bikers crossed the line no matter what the driver did before the video starts.

jerrywall
10-01-2013, 12:05 PM
Agreed. At best, it's road rage. If the SUV driver had hit or run someone, or clipped someone, even then the best response would have been to take a photo of the plate and call the cops.



As for dealing with folks moving onto me/into my lane, that's nothing a pocket full of pennies or a length of chain doesn't solve.

kelroy55
10-01-2013, 12:19 PM
From what I've read the Hollywood Stuntz are a bunch of dickheads that have caused problems before. I've been riding for many years and belong to a couple groups and it's things like this that give bikers a bad name.

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 12:24 PM
From what I've read the Hollywood Stuntz are a bunch of dickheads that have caused problems before. I've been riding for many years and belong to a couple groups and it's thinks like this that give bikers a bad name.I would like to seem them come here in Oklahoma and try and pull something like that and see what happens. Doesn't Oklahoma have the highest CCW permits in nation?

jerrywall
10-01-2013, 12:28 PM
Hence the reason that myself and all of my riding friends won't ride with sports bike riders. You won't often see a Harley rider lane splitting at 100+ miles an hour.

WilliamTell
10-01-2013, 12:29 PM
I plan on buying my first bike within the next couple of months. I am not sure whether or not I'm going for a Harley or Ducati, just fyi in case people wonder whether I'm biased towards bikes.


Based on my own personal experince i got rid of my motorcycle a few years back.

I had two very close calls where 2 different women almost ended my life because they cared about responding to that text message more than smacking their two tons of metal into me at a high speed and forcing me too the ground at 50mph to have other cars crush my body. In one case when I got up to the stop light i yelled and cussed her out and she gave me the most devil look like 'how dare he'...and i could tell in the look in her eyes she was completely indifferent to my life ending.

At that point i knew it was time to get rid of it.

You cant change people.

kevinpate
10-01-2013, 12:46 PM
...
You cant change people.

No, but if you have a teensy weeny bit of know how, you can chain people ... or so goes the rumor anyway.

kelroy55
10-01-2013, 12:53 PM
Hence the reason that myself and all of my riding friends won't ride with sports bike riders. You won't often see a Harley rider lane splitting at 100+ miles an hour.

If they do it's on the way to another bar LOL

tomokc
10-01-2013, 12:58 PM
In a scenario where rational behavior is being overtaken by a mob mentality, only a fool would put themselves between a threatened person and their path to safety. Which is what several of the motorcyclists obviously did.

MustangGT
10-01-2013, 01:03 PM
I hear at least one biker is already in custody with more to follow.

Too bad the driver didn't have a gun and couldn't have simply shot anyone posing an immediate threat - like the one's opening his door or striking his glass with their helmets and/or fists.

I hope some biker groups come forward and condemn the actions of these nuts with bikes and offer something up.

Agree. Apparently this blatantly illegal riding blitz takes place annually and the NYPD was out and about to attempt to stop it. Now a relative of the ricer burner rider that was hurt is mad at the driver of the Range Rover. This relative is an asshat for defending the illegal biker activity. If it had been me once the assault began I would have mowed down as many of them as I could and if that did not dissuade the others and the assault continued a firearm would have put as many as I had bullets down.

Urban Pioneer
10-01-2013, 01:15 PM
I plan on buying my first bike within the next couple of months. I am not sure whether or not I'm going for a Harley or Ducati,

Ducati! It is a shame that the dealership here is gone.

I rode with Speed Tribe for several years among other groups.

In watching the video from the very beginning it sounds as though the driver nudged or clipped a bike early on. Not sure if that is when the dude's leg was broken and caused the initial outrage or if that happened in the middle when when the Range Rover clearly plowed over some bikes.

Regardless, stupidity on both sides probably at work = media sensation.

I had a lady intentionally try to run me over because she was pissed that I buzzed her on the Hefner Parkway. I was in the far left lane, sped on by, and that apparently pissed her off. She followed me to the 122nd street exit and tried to clip me on a turn while yelling at me. I was so angry I nearly responded as stupidly as well but somehow kept it together.

venture
10-01-2013, 01:28 PM
Agree. Apparently this blatantly illegal riding blitz takes place annually and the NYPD was out and about to attempt to stop it. Now a relative of the ricer burner rider that was hurt is mad at the driver of the Range Rover. This relative is an asshat for defending the illegal biker activity. If it had been me once the assault began I would have mowed down as many of them as I could and if that did not dissuade the others and the assault continued a firearm would have put as many as I had bullets down.

Perhaps they should have broken out the snowplows early...would have made it a bit easier IMO. :-X

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 02:17 PM
Based on my own personal experince i got rid of my motorcycle a few years back.

I had two very close calls where 2 different women almost ended my life because they cared about responding to that text message more than smacking their two tons of metal into me at a high speed and forcing me too the ground at 50mph to have other cars crush my body. In one case when I got up to the stop light i yelled and cussed her out and she gave me the most devil look like 'how dare he'...and i could tell in the look in her eyes she was completely indifferent to my life ending.

At that point i knew it was time to get rid of it.

You cant change people.
I completely understand what you're saying. I just want to try it and experience it, I might not pursue it, I honestly am not sure. I've ridden a few times and absolutely loved it. I plan on taking the advanced training course at OSU

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 02:21 PM
Ducati! It is a shame that the dealership here is gone.

I rode with Speed Tribe for several years among other groups.

In watching the video from the very beginning it sounds as though the driver nudged or clipped a bike early on. Not sure if that is when the dude's leg was broken and caused the initial outrage or if that happened in the middle when when the Range Rover clearly plowed over some bikes.

Regardless, stupidity on both sides probably at work = media sensation.

I had a lady intentionally try to run me over because she was pissed that I buzzed her on the Hefner Parkway. I was in the far left lane, sped on by, and that apparently pissed her off. She followed me to the 122nd street exit and tried to clip me on a turn while yelling at me. I was so angry I nearly responded as stupidly as well but somehow kept it together.yeah, I'm looking at a 899 Panigale and a Harley Fat Boy Lo. I am also thinking of just starting out with 250cc Honda for a few months to get accustomed to the ways a riding.

That's pretty interesting about the lady in car, where are the police when you need them? Lol

jerrywall
10-01-2013, 02:33 PM
yeah, I'm looking at a 899 Panigale and a Harley Fat Boy Lo. I am also thinking of just starting out with 250cc Honda for a few months to get accustomed to the ways a riding.

That's pretty interesting about the lady in car, where are the police when you need them? Lol

If you're not an experienced rider, I would definitely not choose a Harley Fat Boy (or any of the regular sized harleys) as your first. It's a lot of weight and power, just waiting to hit the ground. A sportster is a good first bike option, or like you suggested, a 250cc honda (or Yamaha, which is the way I went, after years of no riding, before I got my current Deuce).

Urban Pioneer
10-01-2013, 02:49 PM
Yep. I had a 1,000cc and quite frankly would be quite happy with a 600cc to start back with again. A 1000 was fun though. Especially with Speed Tribe. Liter = Leader, but not so great to start with.

Word of advice, (especially in Oklahoma with the hot weather and subsequent fatigue) buy the bike that fits your body type. So many to choose from you can easily find something that is cool looking and is comfortable for long cruises.

Back on topic, we always either rode in formation or individually with an "end point" in mind. A rally in NYC in mixed traffic seems like a great way for something to occur as did with the Range Rover.

Anonymous.
10-01-2013, 03:28 PM
If you watch the beginning of the video, the Driver's side mirror is broken. Everyone knows a biker's easiest chance at roadrage against a vehicle is to punch a mirror.

Likely that is what occurred before the video starts where it appears they "randomly" slow the RR down. The driver may have provoked one of them to damage the mirror, but I am willing to bet the bikers crossed the line first by damaging the mirror and then wanted more after the driver kept going.

Plutonic Panda
10-01-2013, 04:17 PM
If you're not an experienced rider, I would definitely not choose a Harley Fat Boy (or any of the regular sized harleys) as your first. It's a lot of weight and power, just waiting to hit the ground. A sportster is a good first bike option, or like you suggested, a 250cc honda (or Yamaha, which is the way I went, after years of no riding, before I got my current Deuce).yeah, you're right. That is most likely what I'll do. Any used dealer suggestions? I've been scouting Craigslist, Heartland Cycles, and a new place down by shields and 10th.

bluedogok
10-01-2013, 11:24 PM
Hence the reason that myself and all of my riding friends won't ride with sports bike riders. You won't often see a Harley rider lane splitting at 100+ miles an hour.
I have plenty of sport bike riding friends who don't ride like that or with groups like that. Those are the stunta wannabe types like the ones who block Dallas interstates so they can pull their stupid tricks and are really more of a gang than a group of riders.


yeah, you're right. That is most likely what I'll do. Any used dealer suggestions? I've been scouting Craigslist, Heartland Cycles, and a new place down by shields and 10th.
Performance on 39th tends to have a lot of the former 250cc bikes used in the MSF classes, most are around a year old and have around 1,000 miles on them.

Snowman
10-02-2013, 02:36 AM
I also found this article -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/nyregion/motorcyclists-assault-suv-driver-after-chase-uptown-police-say.html?_r=1&

I still can't find an explanation for why they surround and stop in front of the SUV in the first place. That's what is not making any sense to me. If they just did that randomly for kicks, then stupid bikers. If they did it for a reason, still stupid bikers, but I wouldn't mind knowing why (did he previously clip someone and take off, or what).

The first time they stopped was when he rear ended someone being a jerk to him, while what they did is inexcusable, there is not much excuses either for rear ending someone in what looked like fair driving conditions. It almost looks like he may not have even tried to slowdown or hit the breaks during the several seconds the biker pulled his stupid gradual slowing down routine, he was clearly aware of him from just reacting to the mock sideswipe. Though the guy he first hit had mock sideswiped him, cut him off and slowed down; it would not surprise me if that was retaliating for having been cut off or nearly sideswiped by the SUV earlier. I could not see what happening at the first stop to have any idea if plowing over people stopped could begin to be justified or not from the video but by the time they got to him he had hit somewhere around three or four bikes and/or people on them all but maybe one intentionally. It would not be surprising to find out that the ones actually beating him up was ones he hit earlier.

Snowman
10-02-2013, 03:53 AM
I hear at least one biker is already in custody with more to follow.

Too bad the driver didn't have a gun and couldn't have simply shot anyone posing an immediate threat - like the one's opening his door or striking his glass with their helmets and/or fists.

I hope some biker groups come forward and condemn the actions of these nuts with bikes and offer something up.

The first problem with line of thought though is does just damaging the vehicle justify shooting someone (in many if not most states that is no, NY is not exactly the most gun friendly either), some reports indicated they only things at the first stop was trying to destroy the tires and dent the fenders, other sound like they are confusing the final stop with the first one, others sound like the most threatening thing at the first point was being surrounded. In any case hardly much of a step up to using a gun verses intentionally hitting someone with a vehicle. They did not try to open the door or break windows till after he had intentionally hit several people. While having a gun may have given him a chance to intimidate them to leave without firing it could have ended with him in prison or shot himself. The police have already said that the SUV driver may face charges for the actions he took with his vehicle.

RadicalModerate
10-02-2013, 05:45 AM
I plan on buying my first bike within the next couple of months. I am not sure whether or not I'm going for a Harley or Ducati, just fyi in case people wonder whether I'm biased towards bikes.

Have you considered a Sting Ray?
My first bike became a homemade version of this (except that it was red with a leopard skin banana seat). Instead of being festooned with reflectors--as was the factory model--we had clothespins clamping playing cards in the spokes for that cool sound of power. Frankly the cards in the spokes sounded way better than those rice-burners in the video.
http://cyclistsinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/stingray1.jpg
(I graduated to a three-speed English racer, then a 10-speed, then a Suzuki 250, then a BMW R75/5 (almost got a Moto Guzzi instead), then a 1971 Sportster, then a '65 Panhead, then a '71 Shovelhead, then a '52 Panhead . . .)

But seriously (sort of). . .
Insurance companies should review that video, with the video-viewing equivalent of a fine-toothed comb, and revoke any insurance policies that have been written for any of the riders. Then their names could be given to the police and the police could bust them for not having insurance when they ride without it.

Just the facts
10-02-2013, 06:00 AM
This is what happens when mob mentality takes over. All you need is one dumbass a small group of semi-dumbasses and bunch of sheep. If this had been me I would have initially only been concerned about property damage until the police arrived, but after the window smashing portion it would have been game on and the authorities would still be out with brooms and sponges cleaning up the highway and the 'survivors' would be spending a fortune on "In memory of ....." tattoos.

Watching the video I had to wonder why the driver's door was unlocked which allowed it to be opened near then end. The Range Rover (like many cars) has automatic locks which lock after the car hits 12 to 15 mph. However, if the driver's door is opened after the initial lock, it won't lock automatically again. This tells me at some point the driver got of the car himself and then got back in the car without turning the engine off. This would be consistent with the driver's statement that he initially hit the back tire of a motorcycle at slow speed and got out to see if the rider was okay. That is when the initial physical attack began and given the choice between taking the abuse or getting away - opted to run over the 3 bikes stopped in front of him.

RM - I had that exact same bike in red but with a yellow banana seat. For a long time I thought they were called banana seats because it was yellow. Of course, I also thought country radio station KRAK in Sacramento called itself Crack Radio because the radio speaker on the dash of our station wagon had a crack in it. I could never figure out how they knew.

kelroy55
10-02-2013, 06:08 AM
If you're not an experienced rider, I would definitely not choose a Harley Fat Boy (or any of the regular sized harleys) as your first. It's a lot of weight and power, just waiting to hit the ground. A sportster is a good first bike option, or like you suggested, a 250cc honda (or Yamaha, which is the way I went, after years of no riding, before I got my current Deuce).

I agree with a smaller bike at first but both the FB and a Heritage are pretty well balanced bikes allbeit a bit on the heavy side. I ride an Ultra Classic now but as I get older might drop back down to a Heritage.


Have you considered a Sting Ray?
My first bike became a homemade version of this (except that it was red with a leopard skin banana seat). Instead of being festooned with reflectors--as was the factory model--we had clothespins clamping playing cards in the spokes for that cool sound of power. Frankly the cards in the spokes sounded way better than those rice-burners in the video.
http://cyclistsinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/stingray1.jpg
(I graduated to a three-speed English racer, then a 10-speed, then a Suzuki 250, then a BMW R75/5 (almost got a Moto Guzzi instead), then a 1971 Sportster, then a '65 Panhead, then a '71 Shovelhead, then a '52 Panhead . . .)

But seriously (sort of). . .
Insurance companies should review that video, with the video-viewing equivalent of a fine-toothed comb, and revoke any insurance policies that have been written for any of the riders. Then their names could be given to the police and the police could bust them for not having insurance when they ride without it.

I remember getting a Stingray for Christmas when I was a kid and rode that sucker everywhere and was so proud of it... lol

BBatesokc
10-02-2013, 06:37 AM
duplicate

BBatesokc
10-02-2013, 06:38 AM
The first problem with line of thought though is does just damaging the vehicle justify shooting someone (in many if not most states that is no, NY is not exactly the most gun friendly either), some reports indicated they only things at the first stop was trying to destroy the tires and dent the fenders, other sound like they are confusing the final stop with the first one, others sound like the most threatening thing at the first point was being surrounded. In any case hardly much of a step up to using a gun verses intentionally hitting someone with a vehicle. They did not try to open the door or break windows till after he had intentionally hit several people. While having a gun may have given him a chance to intimidate them to leave without firing it could have ended with him in prison or shot himself. The police have already said that the SUV driver may face charges for the actions he took with his vehicle.

I don't have any issue with 'my line of thought' and do not doubt a jury wouldn't have an issue with it either. And this from someone (me) who is licensed to carry a gun and chooses not to because of the liability.

Reducing what these thugs were doing to basically vandalism is simply being an apologist for their actions.

The driver had already called 911 regarding the blatant disregard for the law and safety of others by these idiots on two wheels.

It appears the 'brake check' was an attempt to harass, intimidate or bring the SUV driver to a stop. That alone is cause for concern.

In the initial stop the camera is so far away you can't really tell what is happening beyond a large group of people who were previously acting recklessly surrounding the family's SUV in the middle of a highway. It seems to be accepted that those within the group slashed the vehicle tires and were hitting the SUV with either their fists, helmets or other objects.

Nothing about that scenario is 'normal' or 'safe.'

The driver had no obligation to wait and see if he and his family were going to be hurt or killed.

A reasonable person would see the actions before, during and after the initial incident as reckless, dangerous and deadly.

The crowd gave the driver no path to flee, so he took the only path available to him - up and over those blocking him and trying to illegally disable his vehicle and possibly make entry.

The police commissioner was on TV this morning and said the driver of the SUV was NOT likely to be charged with any crime.

tomokc
10-02-2013, 08:29 AM
Manuel Gomez is president of MG Security Services, and is also a retired FBI agent and New York police sergeant. Interviewed by the NY Times, his advice was this:

If you feel threatened, Mr. Gomez said, “you have the right to defend yourself, by hook or by crook.” The motorcyclists had more than numbers on their side, he said: “Superior weapons, because they were using their helmets. All he’s got is a cellphone and a vehicle. Take them out. Whatever you have to do. Figure it out later.”

Teo9969
10-02-2013, 09:04 AM
It is never ever acceptable for a pack of riders to surround a vehicle and force that vehicle's driving patterns. Any such action is rightly perceived as threatening because it *is* threatening. The only mistake the Rover driver made, as far as I can tell, was letting this go on as long as he did.

kelroy55
10-02-2013, 09:23 AM
It is never ever acceptable for a pack of riders to surround a vehicle and force that vehicle's driving patterns. Any such action is rightly perceived as threatening because it *is* threatening. The only mistake the Rover driver made, as far as I can tell, was letting this go on as long as he did.

The bikers should have got his license plate and called 911, not go after a man and his family. I've had several close calls on the bike and felt like going after the person but commom sense took over.

MadMonk
10-02-2013, 09:32 AM
I'm shocked at how calm he remained. I may have started swerving back and forth to clear a path through these jackasses. It was his only real defense.

Urbanized
10-02-2013, 09:36 AM
yeah, you're right. That is most likely what I'll do. Any used dealer suggestions? I've been scouting Craigslist, Heartland Cycles, and a new place down by shields and 10th.
I'd like to toss in a recommendation for the Triumph Modern Classics line (Classics | Triumph Motorcycles (http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/range/classics)). The Bonneville and Thruxton are considered excellent starter bikes with tremendous reliability. The Bonneville is comparable to the previously-mentioned HD Sportster (in fact HD originally introduced the Sportster to compete with the old Bonneville, which was dominating the segment in the states at the time of the Sportster's introduction).

The Bonneville & Thruxton (basically a factory cafe racer version of the Bonnie) are good as starters because they are easy to ride but aren't as limiting as some others. They handle simply (though still fun/rewarding to ride hard), and while at 865cc and 67bhp they are easily powerful enough for highway riding they aren't so powerful (read many/most sport bikes) that you feel stifled and frustrated in stoplight-to-stoplight city riding (should be a consideration if you plan to ride mostly in town). They both offer very comfortable riding positions (should be among your top considerations; get a bike that physically fits your desired riding style).

If buying new, I would recommend against buying something in the 250 range, as you will quickly get confidence on a good motorcycle and just as quickly become frustrated by the lack of performance in a drastically-undersized bike. No need to switch bikes in a few months.

Back to Triumph: I also really appreciate the lack of pretense associated with riding one. There are good bikers of all types, but for some of the mainstream lines it becomes more of a poseur costume party than about the riding itself. Not much of that with this line. It's just a fun bike to ride, and turns plenty of heads, though it is also bonafide grandpa bait. Lots of old fellas stopping you to ask you what year it is and tell you about the one they supposedly owned back in '68.

Triumph also has a bunch of great modern rides in the sport/street, cruiser, touring and dual-sport areas, if any of those float your boat. Go read some reviews on-line. They are a darling of motorcycle magazines. Unfortunately you'll presently have to go out of state to get a new one, but it's easy (I did), and good local service is available.

Don't buy something just because "that's what everyone else rides". Motorcycles at their very essence are about individualism. Get the bike that is right for you, take your time to figure out what that is, and listen to your inner voice, not just recommendations from others (me included). And for goodness' sake, take an MSF class (the one at OSU-OKC is excellent) and get your endorsement BEFORE you buy, and never act like the squid hooligans in that video.

Teo9969
10-02-2013, 10:10 AM
The bikers should have got his license plate and called 911, not go after a man and his family. I've had several close calls on the bike and felt like going after the person but commom sense took over.

I could have even understood maybe 2 or 3 guys taking off after him just to make sure they know where he went...but 20+ bikes?

Urban Pioneer
10-02-2013, 11:34 AM
Mob mentality. Plus there is often "pack mentality" too. I've never actually seen anything destructive happen in the groups I rode with, but I have definitely observed (and participated) in "group moods". When your with friends and you ride in a pack, particularly on rockets, a huge element of bonding kicks in if you ride in tight formations. Kinda have to trust the guy or girl next to you when they are 4 feet away going 100mph +

I don't think the NYC rally mob attack is necessairly the result of that, but the psych aspect in group riding can be interesting.

kevinpate
10-02-2013, 11:55 AM
...but 20+ bikes?

Never underestimate the power of group think from the rank and file when Major Stupidity is running the event.

kelroy55
10-02-2013, 12:17 PM
Never underestimate the power of group think from the rank and file when Major Stupidity is running the event.

again from what I've read this group had a major dose of stupidity to begin with. I'm just grateful it wasn't a bunch of Harley riders lol

BBatesokc
10-02-2013, 01:19 PM
Thank God there was a video.......

I can certainly imagine the discussion going against the SUV driver if there hadn't been one.

The fact one of the idiots posted the video under the context he did - as if the SUV driver was in the wrong - tells you where their mind was.

If there hadn't been a video posted I can hear it now..... "We were all just out for a casual ride with friends, when out of nowhere came this insane man in his Range Rover. He hit one of our riders on purpose and then ran those down that tried to come to his aid. We simply followed to make sure he didn't kill anyone and to ID him for police. When he did stop he jumped out of his car like a mad man and began banging his own head into the ground. Good thing we were all there and surrounding him or someone could have been hurt!"

BoulderSooner
10-02-2013, 01:23 PM
reports (who knows if true) that the SUV driver clipped a bike rider with his side mirror and that sparked the entire deal ..

BBatesokc
10-02-2013, 01:35 PM
reports (who knows if true) that the SUV driver clipped a bike rider with his side mirror and that sparked the entire deal ..

Wouldn't change my opinion. Accidents happen..... doesn't justify the response.

jerrywall
10-02-2013, 02:58 PM
Wouldn't change my opinion. Accidents happen..... doesn't justify the response.

Yeah, gosh. The idea that private citizens would take it upon themselves to practice vigilante behavior.

:p

BBatesokc
10-02-2013, 03:02 PM
Yeah, gosh. The idea that private citizens would take it upon themselves to practice vigilante behavior.

:p

Pretty pathetic if someone felt attacking a man with his wife and child was justified 'vigilante' behavior over a fender-bender.

There is a huge difference between taking existing laws into one's hands and ignoring the law and enacting your own - which is what they did.

Teo9969
10-02-2013, 03:17 PM
reports (who knows if true) that the SUV driver clipped a bike rider with his side mirror and that sparked the entire deal ..

Given that that was true, you still don't surround a car and force that drivers hand. It's physically threatening if not life threatening. Sure a few of the bike riders could *follow* this guy to make sure that he had to face his crime...but stalking the guy is totally uncalled for.

jerrywall
10-02-2013, 03:40 PM
Pretty pathetic if someone felt attacking a man with his wife and child was justified 'vigilante' behavior over a fender-bender.

There is a huge difference between taking existing laws into one's hands and ignoring the law and enacting your own - which is what they did.

It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

BBatesokc
10-02-2013, 03:52 PM
It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

Sorry, wasn't meaning my response as directed at you. But I know some have had that opinion on other sites.

Surrounding the vehicle in the initial scene 'may' border on overreacting by driving through the crowd - but the reports I read say the crowd was hitting his car and slashing the tires..... that's a whole new level of stupid.

tomokc
10-02-2013, 04:18 PM
It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

GOPR2900 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUod6IWpnppkLNGbMk-fLMdw&feature=player_embedded&v=5ukdkgLYYbw) I post this video because the original one in this thread has been removed.

Jerry, it appeared to me that the SUV driver was stopped and boxed in by the motorcyclists who were trying to drag him out of the car. At 0:26 the motorcyclist slows in front of the SUV (brake checks), is struck from behind, and the SUV stops. At 0:45 the SUV is stopped and surrounded, and at least one motorcyclist is trying to open the door. At 0:50 the SUV takes off, driving over who- and whatever was in front of him. He wasn't trying to kill them, he was trying to escape. Later at 5:05 he is stopped again, but with fewer motorcyclists in front of him as another person actually succeeds in opening the door. The SUV then takes off again. At 6:15 the SUV stops for the third time, is blocked by other cars without any means of escape, and the motorcyclists break into the car, drag the motorist out and assault him.

I see it differently than you do. The motorist didn't run over the motorcyclists except when he was stopped and they were trying to tear him out of his car. Only when stopped for the third time - when he couldn't get away - did they accomplish what he feared they would do all along. As security expert Manuel Gomez said in my post #39, “you have the right to defend yourself, by hook or by crook.” The motorcyclists had more than numbers on their side, he said: “Superior weapons, because they were using their helmets. All he’s got is a cellphone and a vehicle. Take them out. Whatever you have to do. Figure it out later.”

jerrywall
10-02-2013, 04:29 PM
The whole thing to me just seems like one big cluster-you-know-what.

Teo9969
10-02-2013, 04:30 PM
It was a joke.

However, to clarify. They didn't attack the man with his wife and child before he tried to kill a few of them. From the look of the video, they restrained/contained him (which was still stupid, but that seems to be the initial vigilante action) after he clipped one of them and them left the scene of the incident. Then he ran over several of them (escalating the situation) and then they continued to escalate it further. A lot of stupidity on all sides.

A group surrounding and stopping a car in the middle of a freeway *is* an attack. They didn't need to touch the car at all. There simply is no argument against this very basic concept.

FromTtown
10-02-2013, 05:19 PM
It is totally the guy in the SUVs fault. How dare he protect his family. No one has a right to eff with bikers at all as they DO own the road. If you have a family then you have no right to be safe once you leave your house. How can all of you people defend this idiot driving the SUV? I hope you guys are all beaten to a pulp by bikers here in OKC. That would be some awesome news coverage, roving gangs of bikers in OKC beating up families that get in their way in their oversized SUVs. I know some bikers personally and they wouldn't hesitate to beat someones ass for no reason. I hope you guys get to meet them.

FromTtown

jerrywall
10-02-2013, 05:27 PM
A group surrounding and stopping a car in the middle of a freeway *is* an attack. They didn't need to touch the car at all. There simply is no argument against this very basic concept.

I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

jerrywall
10-02-2013, 05:28 PM
It is totally the guy in the SUVs fault. How dare he protect his family. No one has a right to eff with bikers at all as they DO own the road. If you have a family then you have no right to be safe once you leave your house. How can all of you people defend this idiot driving the SUV? I hope you guys are all beaten to a pulp by bikers here in OKC. That would be some awesome news coverage, roving gangs of bikers in OKC beating up families that get in their way in their oversized SUVs. I know some bikers personally and they wouldn't hesitate to beat someones ass for no reason. I hope you guys get to meet them.

FromTtown

Well, you can act like a jerk all you want, but no one here is saying this is the guy in the SUVs fault. My only point is that the whole thing is a cluster, and I think every party involved has at least *some* culpability.