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Easy180
08-25-2013, 06:00 PM
About a month away from completion of our second home through a builder and thought it might be helpful to have a thread for helpful hints etc.

Just ran into something new that I wanted to share...Our home builder along with numerous other builders are putting wood over 3rd car garage (full garage in some cases) areas instead of brick to save a grand...Never really knew of this approach but I think it reeks of cheap on the front of your house no less...Spent $300 to get it bricked

Anyone else run into surprises or have recommendations for folks in the early stages or looking to build?

bluedogok
08-25-2013, 06:38 PM
It is common in Texas just to brick the front of the house, if the third car garage is offset I can understand the change in materials looks wise. The fully bricked house is a rarity anymore.

Up here in Colorado our house (built in 1999) is all siding as is most newer homes that aren't a half million and up.

Easy180
08-25-2013, 07:08 PM
I guess my tip would be to ask early on instead of just assuming they will brick above the entire garage...They also skimped above windows on the side and back but we weren't too concerned with those

I would also recommend ensuring they use metal poles instead of wood if you are throwing in a fence...Wood posts are a NIGHTMARE

WilliamTell
08-25-2013, 07:39 PM
-get what you want, dont let the builder talk you out of nice convenience features because they arent in their predetermined options list.

-dont pay for extra sod or a fence for 30 years, pay out of pocket or get them after closing

-check the house as much as you can and bother the crap out of them if something doesnt look right, we had spots of missing insulation and even a missing chimney cap that was allowing water in

bluedogok
08-25-2013, 07:50 PM
I guess my tip would be to ask early on instead of just assuming they will brick above the entire garage...They also skimped above windows on the side and back but we weren't too concerned with those

I would also recommend ensuring they use metal poles instead of wood if you are throwing in a fence...Wood posts are a NIGHTMARE
I would say that should be settled in the design phase, whatever is shown on plans/elevations is what should be built. If they aren't shown on the drawings, don't assume the material is going to be any different than shown. If you want something different, the drawings should reflect that, they are contract documents after all. Something written in a (non-drawing) contract may not make it to the field, the drawings should reflect what is supposed to be built.

BBatesokc
08-26-2013, 08:09 AM
My parents just bought a new Neal McGee home in Edmond in Cheyenne Ridge Villas (http://www.nealmcgeehomes.com/cheyenne-villas) and I'm shocked what a terrible builder and company they are - at least in my parent's situation and after talking to several of their neighbors (also Neal McGee homes). The structure of the home itself appears fine (I'm not a builder, so I really wouldn't know) but for $340K+ homes, they provide terrible customer service and seem to either be extremely cheap or simply don't know their job or their customers very well.

Speaking of brick, one of the homes in the cul-de-sac is stucco - after speaking to the new home owner I learned the builder (Neal McGee) was so inattentive to details that they used two different types of brick on the exterior and didn't catch it until it was done. Their solution? Just cover the house in stucco!

The builder also is totally inept when it came to drainage. They literally laid a french drain 'sock' on the ground next to the house and covered it with rock and called it acceptable. Didn't even dig a trench. The home inspector missed it during inspection. I happened to catch it only because I'm looking to do my own french drains at our home and I thought I could look at theirs for some 'expert' tips. I immediately saw it didn't even meet the basics of the DIY videos on YouTube. The inspector came back out and was so embarrassed about missing it he refunded the $500 inspection fee on the spot. Then they tried to claim they couldn't do it the way we wanted because of Edmond code issues. Come to find out, there were no code issues.

The list of details they either totally ignored or poorly executed is staggering. My parents have lived in the house a couple of months now and their punch list of to-dos hasn't even been addressed yet - hearing the same complaints from other neighbors. Even though they promised to address them all after closing.

This would be my biggest suggestion - Do not close until EVERYTHING is done to your satisfaction, regardless of how much pressure the builder puts on you.

My parents home is no mansion, but at right at $340K I think there is a level of expectation that should be met when building and selling to clients in this price range.

Bad drainage, unprofessional sprinklers and cheap, cheap landscaping was probably their biggest and most expensive issue - beyond that was just tons of little things a house in that price range should include..... for example: dimmers on light switches, electrical outlets in the floor in large living areas, canister lights in vaulted ceiling should point straight down and not with the angle of the ceiling, overspray on ceilings from crown moldings, plenty of wall electrical outlets, lights in closets, more than just a single light bulb in the garage, etc.

I blame most of it on nepotism and stinginess - the realtor was the builder's daughter and the 'designer' was another daughter. Both lied constantly to me and my parents and blamed each other and the only time daddy stepped in was to be a bully to the buyers.

Even when they closed (I had to get the key as my parents lived in Austin) I had to go to their office and they just handed over a set of keys - no "Thank you for buying your new home from us" or anything. Get to the home and no flowers, or card welcoming the new home buyer - instead, I had to immediately clean because the floor was covered in dirt from workers going in and out at the last minute. Come to find out, the house wasn't even locked!

Maybe I'm expecting too much, but I know people who've bought less expensive homes that were made to feel more welcome and thanked for their business. -which in turn often results in excellent reviews and recommendations.

Regardless, I think hiring an outside designer is well worth it if you want all the niceties included before you move in so your new home isn't in a constant stage of upgrading.

Some things my parents added that I think lots of home owners would enjoy....

1.) Full home audio - in their case they have 8 zones that can be controlled from the TV, a smart phone/tablet or individually from wall displays in each room. Its really nice to have purchased music, radio or TV audio in any room you choose (even in the back patio and front yard).
2.) All LED lights. Really like the light they put off and the ability to completely control the diffusion and in some cases even the color of the light itself.
3.) Electrical outlets not only on each exterior wall but also in strategically placed areas of the front and back yard. They had the entire perimeter of their property outlined with electrical so landscape lighting and outlets can be placed anywhere they want.
4.) French drains - no more pools of water anywhere around the exterior of the house.
5.) Security cameras - much cheaper to install during construction - gives great piece of mind. They had 16 cameras installed and could have saved a couple thousand dollars if they'd done it during construction as opposed to after.
6.) We personally love boulders as part of landscaping. If you think you would too, have these brought in during construction - saves a lot of money on installation (fences are not up yet and lawns don't have to be repaired).

SoonerDave
08-26-2013, 08:28 AM
One of the ugly lessons some people learn the hard way about builders is that building in nicer, upscale additions with presumably "name" builders is anything but a guarantee of quality in materials or workmanship. In fact, I've seen many cases where some relatively unscrupulous builders leverage the assumption that "if I'm buying in here, the builders must be elite," when they're not. I've seen very expensive homes in very expensive areas built with really shoddy attention to all those factors, but once you close, heaven help you trying to get anything fixed.

Some residential land developers will strictly control the builders to whom they will sell their lots specifically for this reason. I've been a part of two developments whose owners would not sell lots to two specific developers (whom I won't name here) because they had a reputation for building garbage. Another builder constructed interior walls on non-standard 24" centers to save a buck on framing lumber, and didn't properly structure a covered patio on one of his homes. It was sagging nearly a foot front-to-back less than a month after it was completed.

I personally think custom-building a home is the way to go, because a builder can appoint a spec home to the nines and the average person won't have a clue what's behind the walls. I've built two homes, and was particularly anal about nearly every aspect of construction right down to the floor plans I drew to the number of outlets on the outside and inside walls. And even at that, there were things I missed. Fortunately, my builder (who, unfortunately, has long since passed away) appreciated the fact that I was a bit more educated about home construction than the average customer, and he didn't mind my attention to detail. I wanted an oversize electrical service box, Cat-5 wiring (which was a big deal 15 years ago) and ethernet drops in every room, plywood rather than OSB decking, excavated footings, and that's just for starters. The point is educate and specify when you build.

I spec'ed out two pages of detail and additions that I stapled to the real estate contract along with my floor plans, and I would strongly encourage anyone building a home right now to educate themselves as much as possible about the process of building a home, right down to the type of foundation being poured, the grade of lumber being used, the experience level of his subs, the kinds of amenities you want (such as appliances), and even to the point of ensuring his HVAC contractor performs a Manual J heat load calculation on the home when assessing the size of AC that it requires. IMO, you cannot over-detail a construction contract. Everything is negotiable. Never assume that this switch or that fixture is a "given" in "that kind" of home. If you want something, nail it down in the contract with as much specificity as possible. If your builder starts to balk at something like that, I'd consider looking elsewhere. More specificity should give a builder/businessman more confidence in you as a customer, not less.

Its going to get really tough over the next few months to get good builders, as I suspect we're already being flooded with fly-by-night contractors to build up new homes in replacement for all the tornado damage. Its only a matter of time before we start hearing stories about how Crooked Builder X threw up a piece of garbage, took the insurance check from some poor soul, and disappeared into the night to leave the homeowner holding the bag for all the crappy problems he left behind.

Be very, very careful!

bluedogok
08-26-2013, 10:56 PM
It's even worse with the large, national builders, they use the same crews whether it is a $150,000 tract home or million dollar mansion unless specialty trades are involved. I have seen things in new multi-million dollar homes that I wouldn't accept in my $250,000 home but then my business is also punching out building projects so maybe I see things that that other people might not notice. I know that when I did drawings for Brent Gibson he had a few builders that he liked to work with and felt they did quality work, there were others that he discouraged clients from using. He wasn't the only one that I heard the same names from.

okcboomer
08-27-2013, 06:30 AM
Are there any good web sites out there that rank home builders? Looking at buying an already built home, and would love to get my hands on some good info.

loveOKC
08-29-2013, 03:52 PM
I would also like to see info on Homebuilders

WilliamTell
08-29-2013, 04:45 PM
see the a floor plan / exterior / brick type in person before committing to something. just because it looks good on paper or a design studio the final product may not be exactly what you had in mind.

BBatesokc
08-29-2013, 05:05 PM
I highly recommend builders or designers that can offer a 3D walk-thorugh of your design. Helps alot with more visual people.

Servicetech571
09-01-2013, 07:57 PM
From an energy savings prospective make sure the house is tighhtly insulated (use spray foam if budget allows). Put ductwork inside conditioned space, not in a hot attic!! Install HVAC equipment about 1/2 the normal size for the sqft of the house and enjoy energy savings for the life of the building.

stick47
09-03-2013, 07:22 AM
Use a lot of tile on the floors instead of carpet. Helps keep the house cool in the Summer. (1200sf of tile in our home) Cellular shades are very good at reducing radiant heat through windows. High roofs & ceilings also help keep the house cool.

BBatesokc
09-03-2013, 04:25 PM
Use a lot of tile on the floors instead of carpet. Helps keep the house cool in the Summer. (1200sf of tile in our home) Cellular shades are very good at reducing radiant heat through windows. High roofs & ceilings also help keep the house cool.

Carpet is just completely gross. Haven't had it in years and plan never to again. They did a TV special on carpet and randomly went into homes in different cites - modest homes, luxury homes, pets, no pets, kids, no kids - it was always the same..... the carpet was just a petri-dish of nastiness, regardless how often you vacuumed or professionally cleaned.

We do a combination of tile and either real or laminate wood. You can see when its dirty/clean and, yes, it is cooler to the touch.

SoonerDave
09-03-2013, 04:50 PM
Use a lot of tile on the floors instead of carpet. Helps keep the house cool in the Summer. (1200sf of tile in our home) Cellular shades are very good at reducing radiant heat through windows. High roofs & ceilings also help keep the house cool.

Maybe, maybe not. High roofs/ceilings increase the total volume of air that must be heated/cooled by your HVAC system. More air to heat/cool, more gas/elec (as apropos) to get the job done. Exacerbated if rooms with higher ceilings are along south or west exposures, esp. in summertime.

stick47
09-03-2013, 05:21 PM
I might agree on the ceiling part of your theory (though you haven't convinced me) but I surely will disagree on the roof part. The more dead space between you and the shingles on your roof, the less heat that will be transferred into your climate controlled living area.
We went from a home with 8 ft ceilings and an attic above that was maybe 5 ft high to one with 10 & 11 ft ceilings and an attic over 16 ft high. The new house is 2.3 times larger than the old house but the summer electric bills are averaging 25% less.

Servicetech571
09-03-2013, 06:59 PM
Spray foam insulate and it won't matter about attic height. Installed correctly Spray Foam just works, ask anybody who has had it done.

stick47
09-03-2013, 07:12 PM
Spray foam payout didn't work for us.

SoonerDave
09-03-2013, 07:42 PM
I might agree on the ceiling part of your theory (though you haven't convinced me) but I surely will disagree on the roof part. The more dead space between you and the shingles on your roof, the less heat that will be transferred into your climate controlled living area.
We went from a home with 8 ft ceilings and an attic above that was maybe 5 ft high to one with 10 & 11 ft ceilings and an attic over 16 ft high. The new house is 2.3 times larger than the old house but the summer electric bills are averaging 25% less.

Sorry, stick, but it isn't a theory. A room of a given length and width and, say, an 8' ceiling height has a smaller volume of air to cool/heat compared to a room of the same width and height but a 10' ceiling. That air has to be moved and cooled, and to do that work requires more energy for more volume. That is, a 10x10 room that's 8' high has 800 cu ft of air to cool. A 10x10 room of 10' height has 1000 cu ft of air to cool. Reducing the temperature of the 1000 cu ft space takes more energy than reducing the temperature of the 800 cu ft space by the same amount.

The space between you and the shingles isn't at all "dead space." The attic space acts as an insulator that, in turn, heats the ductwork (limits heat loss, at least). A higher-pitched roof (say 10/12) will enclose a greater volume of space than, say a more conventional 7-pitch, and create a much more efficient "oven" as it were to heat that ductwork. That attic space can heat in the summer to the outside temp plus 30-40 degrees, and a higher-pitched roof encloses an even greater volume of air heated to that temperature. That's why so many HVAC types are really encouraging folks to put their ductwork inside the conditioned cavity of the home, with spray foaming being an ideal option toward that objective.

The savings you are seeing are not because you have more conditioned space, but almost certainly due to a number of factors in tandem, not the least of which is almost certainly a vastly improved central AC unit leading to less power consumption, superior insulation and building leading to less heat transfer, better quality windows and sealing, better insulated ceiling vents or ducts, different shingle color/materials, perhaps even foam insulation, and a properly-sized compressor, to name only a few factors.

And, as ServiceTech has said, spray foam insulation trumps all. :)

stick47
09-03-2013, 07:55 PM
SD you're certainly entitled to have your own opinions.
For now I'll put you down in the "low pitch roofs do not have hotter attics than a steep pitch roofs" club.

RadicalModerate
09-03-2013, 08:28 PM
One of the "takeaways" from a conference on this sort of stuff that I once attended was voiced by a person who makes a VERY good living designing "house systems" for maximum efficiency and comfort (condensed version): It is [stupid] to run ductwork outside of the conditioned air envelope (e.g. under the slab or in the attic).

If you think about it, he was right. Furr downs/duct chases are inexpensive.
The energy required for conditioning air is not.
It's sort of a "thinking inside the box" deal.

Oh (from my own personal observations/experience in the field):
Never skimp on the foundation. Never.
Or drainage considerations. No matter how complex they may be.

CuatrodeMayo
09-03-2013, 08:34 PM
Hire an architect.

RadicalModerate
09-03-2013, 08:37 PM
Hire an architect.
Who hires energy consultants.
(and engineers where advisable)

(and be sure that the framers understand how to square a corner and crown all the studs.)

SoonerDave
09-04-2013, 01:13 PM
SD you're certainly entitled to have your own opinions.
For now I'll put you down in the "low pitch roofs do not have hotter attics than a steep pitch roofs" club.

As I said, it isn't a matter of "my own opinion." It is a fact that a larger volume of air requires more energy to cool than a smaller volume of air by the same amount - not sure which part of that you're taking to be opinion. If the converse were true, we'd all seek to build infinitely large homes that would take asymptotically approaching zero energy to cool...

RadicalModerate
09-04-2013, 01:26 PM
Here's a tip based on remodeling experience (in the past, for others):
Design-in bathrooms that will allow for AT LEAST 30" wide doors (rather than the "traditional" 24" doors).
Although a personal residence is not subject to ADA standards, one can at least get a wheelchair through a 30" door without major modification of the entire bathroom to allow access. And very few people ever expect to wind up needing a wheelchair . . . including YOU.

(in my humble opinion this simple concept should have been built into minimal building codes a long, long time ago.)

Possible Objection:
"OMG, Trevor . . . We lost 6" out of two closets!!! Whatever shall we do???"
"There, there, Buffy . . . All is not lost . . ."

loveOKC
09-04-2013, 01:28 PM
This is all great information, So who is going to put all this information together in a step by step format for novices like myself :wink:. I really want to build a house but would prefer having this kind of knowledge before I begin my quest.

RadicalModerate
09-04-2013, 01:33 PM
Ever tune into This Old House or The Mike Holmes Exposé Hour (disclaimer: He's Canadian, eh? =)

Sorry . . . This is serious stuff.

Step 1: After you buy the lot upon which your dream house is going to sit, pay for a detail-oriented soil and drainage survey. (In order to know what type of foundation will spare you a lot of future grief/wasted money.) Or, better yet, pay for this before you buy the lot!

Step 2: (to follow after that there other stuff . . .)

Edited to Add (from a couple of now nearly antique presentations of the past):
In order to maximize the chances for success regarding your project, be sure to balance The Big Five:
Function, Form, Feasibiltiy, Financing and Faith.

("ad lib"/segue not directly in line with what is visually shown on the screen shot of the PowerPoint slide):

We all know that--for some "mysterious, cosmic" reason--Seven (7) is a better number of checklist items about which to be concerned. Yet, the 5th item, above, helps you deal with the other two: (6) (click) [Foul]-ups and (7) (click) Frustration.

P.S. Whatever "wisdom" about actually building a house I may have was gleaned from 35 years experience in the field. It isn't something you can get an App for . . . at least not yet! =)

loveOKC
09-04-2013, 02:07 PM
Ever tune into This Old House or The Mike Holmes Exposé Hour (disclaimer: He's Canadian, eh? =)


P.S. Whatever "wisdom" about actually building a house I may have was gleaned from 35 years experience in the field. It isn't something you can get an App for . . . at least not yet! =)

Here is your million dollar idea.

RadicalModerate
09-04-2013, 02:21 PM
Obviously, I'm not in this for the money . . . =)

Suggested Viewing:
Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (Cary Grant, et.al)
The Money Pit (Tom Hanks? etc.)
Lots of PBS stuff (that was a shameless plug for CommieBroadcasting)

Suggested Reading:
The Honeywood File/The Honeywood Settlement by H.B. Creswell*
(c. 1926 British architect/lawyer/homebuilder "parodiary". A classic and hits all the bases.)

Oh! Forgot to mention that I am a TechnoLuddite . . . =)

*http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16489424-the-honeywood-file

SoonerDave
09-04-2013, 02:34 PM
Great stuff, Rad.

I certainly don't have 35 years of homebuilding experience, but I watched my mom and dad (both engineering types, my dad particularly so) build a home and my dad wrestle with the builder over a variety of specifics he wanted done a certain way, and with a few exceptions, did - like steel reinforcement over a covered patio, larger compressor than the builder wanted to install, larger elec circuit service box. Years later, saw some of the notes and calculations my dad had done - especially the heat loss calcs for AC computation - and realized there was so much that goes into home building no one person could possibly remember or comprehend it all. I took what I could from my folks' experience into the two homes I built, and fortunately developed a pretty good working relationship with my builder such that we only had a few dustups over issues.

The most important thing to keep in mind for any prospective home builder or buyer is to remember that spec homes used for showpieces are essentially useless in telling you what went into the home in terms of materials and skill. Some unscrupulous home companies will deck out a spec home to the nines because that's what impresses younger and/or less-construction-educated consumers, and leave them holding the bag and the mortgage for a dump of problems.

A friend of mine just went through the UBuildIt process and I loved the (frequent) invites to his job site to watch construction unfold. I was able to actually offer him some useful insights along the way, which felt really good. And I was very impressed with virtually every sub he used - the framing was some of the best, most precise work I've seen in most any home, to go along with some of the best quality lumber I've seen in home framing, too. That's almost certainly how I'd go about it were I to build another home in the near future (which, hopefully, isn't likely).

Get good, reputable subs; ensure your HVAC does a Manual-J load calc on the home to get a right-sized AC compressor; never skimp on garage electrical outlets, and get a commercial-grade service box if you can. I'm not yet a fan of the flexpipe used in the water lines, but I fear copper lines are either becoming cost-prohibitive or falling into disfavor for other reasons. Be sure the builder uses excavated (dug) footings for the stemwall. I like post-tensioned slabs in some circumstances, and they're becoming increasingly popular (in fact they may be standard or even code in some parts of Texas, but I'm not sure about that).

Like Rad said, there are so many variables, you'll never conquer them all. But if you can hit the biggies, you'll be that much better off when building is completed...

As an aside, I'm really concerned we're about to see (or are already seeing) the fly-by-night operators crawling in on the backs of cockroaches to start throwing up tinfoil homes for a pretty penny in response to all the tornado devastation. A retired builder acquaintance of mine told me he was getting calls that generated enough work for him to come out of retirement for a year or two and build some houses for folks, and he's the kind of builder (one of the few) I'd probably trust to build my home sight unseen. Almost :).

RadicalModerate
09-04-2013, 03:01 PM
The "quality-mindedness" of each member of each subcontractor's crew is what makes the difference in how the natural resources comprising a house result in either a possession worth paying for or a pile of wasted trees/etc. (that you will still be paying for, one way or another).

They--those tradesmen/tradeswomen--are the real "homebuilders".
Not the barber, banker, or elevated flipper who knows a little bit about shuffling imaginary money.
(no quote/brag. simply something that i just made up. yet true.)

Personal Aside: i got so personally picky one time, while i was on the lower end of the learning curve and high up on a scaffold--one about which OSHA would most certainly have voiced some qualms--in regard to fitting some (friggin') gable studs that the Master Carpenter i was working for had to say, "It's close enough, dammit. We ain't building a damn piano here."
(except he pronounced it "pie-ann-ee".)

P.S. to SoonerDave: Ever hear the old joke about "The Engineer and The Malfunctioning Guillotine"? =)

P.P.S. to loveOKC: Suggested Reading 2: "House" by Tracy Kidder (google it) (it confirmed everything good about learning to be a REAL Carpenter that i had already glimpsed on the journey to that goal. Now I prefer cooking. =)

BlackmoreRulz
09-04-2013, 03:32 PM
Stay away from the corporate builders, their prices may be cheaper but so are most of their subs....

SoonerDave
09-04-2013, 05:15 PM
Stay away from the corporate builders, their prices may be cheaper but so are most of their subs....

Unfortunately, this is good advice more often than not.

Even if the corporate builders aren't shifty, you have a tough time dealing with the same person any two times in a row; they deal with lowest-common-denominator/lowest-bid subs and often materials. You're just better off dealing with a builder directly if at all possible.

ctchandler
09-04-2013, 06:22 PM
RM,
I have 24" bathroom doors and most of the new wheel chairs are designed to remove the large wheels (which are not needed in the home) and do go through a 24" door. I have experience in this area. Of course, if you have the opportunity to build a home with larger doors, it's still much more convenient.
C. T.

Design-in bathrooms that will allow for AT LEAST 30" wide doors (rather than the "traditional" 24" doors).
Although a personal residence is not subject to ADA standards, one can at least get a wheelchair through a 30" door without major modification of the entire bathroom to allow access. And very few people ever expect to wind up needing a wheelchair . . . including YOU."

bluedogok
09-04-2013, 08:57 PM
Here's a tip based on remodeling experience (in the past, for others):
Design-in bathrooms that will allow for AT LEAST 30" wide doors (rather than the "traditional" 24" doors).
Although a personal residence is not subject to ADA standards, one can at least get a wheelchair through a 30" door without major modification of the entire bathroom to allow access. And very few people ever expect to wind up needing a wheelchair . . . including YOU.

(in my humble opinion this simple concept should have been built into minimal building codes a long, long time ago.)

Possible Objection:
"OMG, Trevor . . . We lost 6" out of two closets!!! Whatever shall we do???"
"There, there, Buffy . . . All is not lost . . ."
My wife is a Universal Design advocate, her job in Austin was for a non-profit and she ran the universal design/accessible home modification program for them, so I have heard a lot of the issues. I'm mainly commercial architecture so I deal with the ADA (or TAS when doing projects in Texas) constantly. Her attitude is that if you are building new there is absolutely no reason to build your home for accessibility, especially as the population ages and people live longer. One of the things they worked with a lot was modifications to keep people in their homes as they aged. She designed her parents house in Monahans (which sold last month) while her mother was fighting cancer and having the accessibility built in helped after her father had his first stroke 9 years ago. He was able to live in the house until early this year after bladder cancer surgery, he never got well enough after that to return home before passing in June. When we do build a new house it will be designed using universal design principles....of course I will HAVE TO design it that way :)

She did deal with some of the national builders on new homes, especially in the DFW and Houston areas.Their whole scheme is a base model house and then pile on the extras, that is how they operate. Any changes from the norm they charge you for, in her work of dealing with contractors all the time the nationals are good about charging you but not giving you any credits. They would say they couldn't give a credit on slab items when the lot hadn't even been scraped yet, change a door opening size required another up charge when there weren't even studs on-site yet. Just be wary of builders charging for things like this.


RM,
I have 24" bathroom doors and most of the new wheel chairs are designed to remove the large wheels (which are not needed in the home) and do go through a 24" door. I have experience in this area. Of course, if you have the opportunity to build a home with larger doors, it's still much more convenient.
C. T.
I hate 24" doors and have no accessibility issues, I see no reason to have them anywhere. Maybe a linen closet or something would the only use for them.

ctchandler
09-05-2013, 07:18 AM
Bluedogok,
But, what do you do if it's what you have? I don't particularly like 24" doors, but I have to live with what I have or buy another house. I haven't looked at new houses in quite a while, maybe they don't build 24" doors anymore.
C. T.
I hate 24" doors and have no accessibility issues, I see no reason to have them anywhere. Maybe a linen closet or something would the only use for them.

SoonerDave
09-05-2013, 07:23 AM
A given builder, when given an arbitrary floor plan, does what's called a "take-off" of that plan to estimate his construction cost - materials, labor, land, etc. He then adds his profit margin, and that becomes his quote/bid to the customer. Estimates vary widely based on covenants that mandate certain foundation types, building/exterior materials or building styles, so the same "take-off" of a given plan may price differently for different areas. Corporate building companies take that one step further - they buy up a bunch of lots in an area, draw up or use (as an example) three to five "fixed" floor plans for that area, and establish a known fixed price for each plan that they can more or less take to the bank, buy materials in bulk (for building, say, five houses at once rather than one or two at a time). As a result, such builders are often loathe to depart much if at all from those plans, because it screws up their pricing/business model and consequent pricing margin. And they'll charge you out the wazoo to deviate, all coupled with the fact that they will often have very high churn rate on their subs, because they're often lowest-bid contractors.

That's why IMHO its infinitely preferable to avoid the areas where a "corporate" building entity has landed, and deal directly with a builder who can either build on your own lot, or can buy a lot to build your home. You can then negotiate the details on the floor plan and the construction materials and amenities you want more to your preferences rather than those of the corporate builder.

SoonerDave
09-05-2013, 07:38 AM
Bluedogok,
But, what do you do if it's what you have? I don't particularly like 24" doors, but I have to live with what I have or buy another house. I haven't looked at new houses in quite a while, maybe they don't build 24" doors anymore.
C. T.

I can't think of too much new construction (and when I say "new," I'm thinking in the last couple of decades, so caveat emptor :) ) that would purposely design-in a 24" door as a major thoroughfare unless it was an afterthought, eg closet cubbyhole, garage storage enclosure, etc. Heck, the plans I drew had 30" interior doors everywhere and 36" doors on the outside (which I thought was code, but won't swear to that).

If you've got 24" doors, your only options are to assess the potential to refit the opening for a wider door and see if something like a 30" door would fit. Then you've got the hassles of some demo work and refinishing, but I'm guessing most places with a 24" door already likely won't have the space to accommodate a wider opening...

cattleman
09-05-2013, 12:53 PM
Be your own owner-builder. Its a lot of work and takes longer to complete the build but that's what I did and got exactly what I wanted at a much cheaper price.

ctchandler
09-05-2013, 01:00 PM
SoonerDave,
I don't have any doors that I would consider "major thoroughfare", but my front door is 3'0". I think the bedroom doors are 2'6" and both bathroom doors are 2'0". I don't see a way to expand the bathroom doors, but if I ever need a wheelchair, I have one that I described above, the large wheels come off and it easily goes through a 24" opening.
C. T.
I can't think of too much new construction (and when I say "new," I'm thinking in the last couple of decades, so caveat emptor :) ) that would purposely design-in a 24" door as a major thoroughfare unless it was an afterthought, eg closet cubbyhole, garage storage enclosure, etc. Heck, the plans I drew had 30" interior doors everywhere and 36" doors on the outside (which I thought was code, but won't swear to that).

If you've got 24" doors, your only options are to assess the potential to refit the opening for a wider door and see if something like a 30" door would fit. Then you've got the hassles of some demo work and refinishing, but I'm guessing most places with a 24" door already likely won't have the space to accommodate a wider opening...

RadicalModerate
09-05-2013, 01:09 PM
Be your own owner-builder. Its a lot of work and takes longer to complete the build but that's what I did and got exactly what I wanted at a much cheaper price.

Yes. There is a grain of truth in this.
However, unless one has years and years of experience in the trades one will be learning from one's own mistakes rather than those of others.
Plus it's more difficult to get qualified subs scheduled-in when you need them. (If one tries to do one's own plumbing, electrical and HVAC one is either a very skilled, multi-talented, licensed, tradesperson or a fool).

P.S.: They still build 24" doors. A lot of them are still used on bathrooms rather than only on closets or some sort. As noted, above, this should have been a Building Code Violation since the mid-80's but unto this very day it is not.


If you've got 24" doors, your only options are to assess the potential to refit the opening for a wider door and see if something like a 30" door would fit. Then you've got the hassles of some demo work and refinishing, but I'm guessing most places with a 24" door already likely won't have the space to accommodate a wider opening...

When you are talking about a "standard" bathroom with a 24" door you are talking about a complete demo of the exisiting bathroom--including that pesky, expensive plumbing under the slab--to gain the 6+" required to install a (minimum) 30" door in its place. And, in addition to that, there may be some load bearing walls to consider. Just sayin' . . .

Much easier to move a string line or a chalk line over a few inches before anything goes under or on top of the slab.

And then there is re-tiling and re-painting to consider . . .
7ZwOGVWqHAw

Easy180
03-08-2014, 03:29 PM
Doesn't fit on here perfectly but wanted to get thoughts on what to do. Next door neighbor's house is finally done and sod just went in over there. Last few days he has flooded a portion of my back yard cause of his heavy water sprinkling. I understand he is just doing what I did 3 months ago to get the sod to take but should I complain or wait a couple weeks when he should dial it down?

ctchandler
03-08-2014, 04:05 PM
Easy180,
If it's not causing you real problems, I would suggest waiting a few weeks. It's not worth a bad relationship for a minor nuisance.
C. T.
Doesn't fit on here perfectly but wanted to get thoughts on what to do. Next door neighbor's house is finally done and sod just went in over there. Last few days he has flooded a portion of my back yard cause of his heavy water sprinkling. I understand he is just doing what I did 3 months ago to get the sod to take but should I complain or wait a couple weeks when he should dial it down?

ylouder
03-08-2014, 07:17 PM
wait, we've all been there.

Easy180
03-08-2014, 08:44 PM
I hear ya both and was leaning that direction so will wait. If he is still doing it in May I will saunter over and ask if he needs help adjusting his zone times lol

RadicalModerate
03-08-2014, 10:15 PM
Sue The Developer and The Builder.
Hire a Good Lawyer. Don't try to DIY.
If possible, involve the EPA and The Army Corps of Engineers.

(and consider striding over rather than sauntering over. then, think again and simply approach, in a friendly, non-confrontational manner with your goal firmly in mind. =)

hey . . . ya' asked fer sum thoughts . . .
and you had me at the [wasting water] part. =)

(edited to add: "Good Fences Make Good Neighbors. Stolen Water Is Difficult to Sell Illegally.")

stick47
03-09-2014, 07:51 AM
If the neighbor is actually in the process of moving in and all the work that goes with that I'd let it slide for sure. If that isn't the case I'd think a good neighbor would have explained what he was trying to do and apologized in advance for all the water. I believe with these situations that once your personal rights are ignored you need to then take a proactive approach in regards to your relationship with said "neighbor" (who doesn't act like a neighbor).

Easy180
03-16-2014, 08:39 AM
The fun continues. He watered yesterday for some damn reason in advance of last nights tsunami...I now have a large lake on my north side

Anyone have any ideas on what can be done landscaping wise, pump etc to alleviate the situation? I cannot have a huge muddy mess over there for years to come.

Garin
03-16-2014, 02:55 PM
The fun continues. He watered yesterday for some damn reason in advance of last nights tsunami...I now have a large lake on my north side

Anyone have any ideas on what can be done landscaping wise, pump etc to alleviate the situation? I cannot have a huge muddy mess over there for years to come.

You're obviously lower than he is if you have a stockade fence you can dig a trench along the fence about 10" deep get some heavy plastic bury one end of it staple the other end to the fence to create the lake on his side. However if he notices whats going on he can turn you in for stopping the natural flow and drainage. We have had a lot of neighbors that have done this in our neighborhood or you could ask him to go in half for a french drain or another solution. I would go talk to him and express the concern cause he truly may have no clue he's doing it. You have a problem regardless with your drainage so sooner or later you're going to have to spend money to fix it.

RadicalModerate
03-17-2014, 06:30 AM
There is a technical difference between a "French drain" and a surface water control system and it sounds like you need the latter. A question: is the area where the ponding is occurring higher or lower (in elevation) than the adjacent roadway?

mobstam
03-17-2014, 08:53 AM
I'm not in position to build a house just yet (would like to in the next 5 years or so), but I would like to educate myself on the process as much as I can.

Could someone explain the to me difference between a traditional slab foundation and a post-tension slab foundation? What are the benefits/drawbacks of each?

RadicalModerate
03-17-2014, 09:16 AM
Basically, a post-tensioned slab has less chance of cracking, to an unacceptable degree, due to the active clay soil we have around here. It is also a lot more expensive than a regular slab. The key thing is to have a thorough soil survey done prior to designing your foundation/floor. This costs money, too, but it is a very good investment to make on the front end of the building project that can save you boatloads of money and stress later.

CuatrodeMayo
03-17-2014, 09:31 AM
Keep in mind that unlike a traditional slab, you can't cut up a post-tensioned slab to install plumbing when remodeling. Cutting through a cable and hurt and even kill people. Even drilling holes requires caution and ground-penetrating radar.

RadicalModerate
03-17-2014, 09:45 AM
Keep in mind that unlike a traditional slab, you can't cut up a post-tensioned slab to install plumbing when remodeling. Cutting through a cable and hurt and even kill people. Even drilling holes requires caution and ground-penetrating radar.

Excellent point! Since foundation waterproofing measures have improved so much over the years, perhaps it's time to start building houses with basements and crawlspaces rather than slabs on grade. You could have a built-in storm shelter plus easier access to plumbing drains, etc. Of course that nasty old "initial cost" thing raises its ugly head again . . . And then there is what seems to be a callous disregard for the basics of effective drainage measures on the part of some developers and homebuilders. Please note that I said "some" =).

Easy180
03-17-2014, 10:25 AM
There is a technical difference between a "French drain" and a surface water control system and it sounds like you need the latter. A question: is the area where the ponding is occurring higher or lower (in elevation) than the adjacent roadway?

I would say it is higher than the roadway out front as my driveway slopes down. I guess I just need to have something put in to get it out to the front of the house as it's not going anywhere right now.

SoonerDave
03-17-2014, 10:28 AM
I think post-tensioned slabs are now part of the homebuilding code in some (?) parts of Texas.

Just for info's sake, a conventional/traditional slab is literally that - a simple concrete slab poured within what's called a stemwall. Traditional "monolithic pours" are often reinforced by various techniques such as a mesh material or wired rebar. But even the best traditional slab will almost invariably develop hairline cracks at the corners. That's because as the water evaporates from the concrete during the drying process, the slab shrinks away from the stemwall and, in effect, you have discrete "masses" of concrete trying to "shrink" away from each other - hence the cracking.

A post-tensioned slab is kind of a "next generation" version of a concrete foundation. The slab is strengthened rather drastically by the placement of dozens of steel cables that extend beyond the edges of the stemwall and then mechanically placed under extreme tension, then anchored in place. The concrete is then poured, bonds to the sleeving material of the tension cables, and then the cables themselves are filled with material that bonds the cables to the sleeving. This makes the slab incredibly strong, and resistant to shifts in underlying soil. The caveat is that care must be taken to ensure the cable ends are sealed/waterproofed, as any moisture into the cabling can cause long-term corrosion.

The downside is, as others have noted, that you can't just cut up a PT slab. Think of a garage door coil spring - cut that sucker and you'll see the energy release as that spring EXPLODES with a thunderous BANG. Same idea applies here - huge loads are applied to the cables that then puts the concrete under compression.

It is more expensive, as you might expect, but a lot of builders are moving toward it.

Garin
03-17-2014, 10:37 AM
Basically, a post-tensioned slab has less chance of cracking, to an unacceptable degree, due to the active clay soil we have around here. It is also a lot more expensive than a regular slab. The key thing is to have a thorough soil survey done prior to designing your foundation/floor. This costs money, too, but it is a very good investment to make on the front end of the building project that can save you boatloads of money and stress later.

Post tension is actually cheaper, You typically see around here only production homes doing them, I have seen some very large custom homes that have used them though take Stoops new home it is on a post tension slab. Most guys are using them for the money savings.

RadicalModerate
03-17-2014, 10:53 AM
I would say it is higher than the roadway out front as my driveway slopes down. I guess I just need to have something put in to get it out to the front of the house as it's not going anywhere right now.

What you might consider are some "collection boxes" located in the area of the ponding connected to tight lines allowing the water to move out to the curb where it should be in the first place. Some careful checking of the relative grades, some digging, and permits for the curb or sidewalk cuts/drilling for the pipes correctly directing the water will be required. You lawn will be temporarily disturbed by these activities but it will get over it.

Suggest to your water wasting neighbor that it would only be fair for him (or her or them) to share the cost.

RadicalModerate
03-17-2014, 10:58 AM
Post tension is actually cheaper, You typically see around here only production homes doing them, I have seen some very large custom homes that have used them though take Stoops new home it is on a post tension slab. Most guys are using them for the money savings.

I would agree with you if the "money saving" is based on long term projections rather than immediate cost.
All of the "production homes" I ever had anything to do with seemed to involve "remesh" (worthless) rather than #3 rebar in the slab.
(btw: I wasn't the "foundation contractor/sub" at the time. I was only a fledgling framer. =)