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Just the facts
08-14-2013, 08:15 AM
To keep all the Walmart discussion out of the other threads I thought we could have one just for them.

I am starting to wonder if the days of Walmart might be numbered. When I used to drive to Atlanta (3 years ago) I went through Waycross, GA almost every week. At one time Waycross was a booming town with a surprising large downtown for a community it's size. This was because Waycross was the center of a large farming area and everyone came to downtown to shop. Then Walmart built a store on the edge of town and downtown died. I remember driving through and seeing the Walmart parking lot full and then driving by downtown Waycross and see abandoned building with boarded up windows. It made me sad. Why would people destroy their own town to save a few dollars on stuff that was cheaply made?

My kids have a karate event in Waycross this Saturday so I am taking them up for the day. The wife asked what I was going to do with my few hours of time and I told her I was going to downtown and take some pictures of the old abandoned buildings. Concerned for my safety she asked me to show her the area on Google Earth. To my surprise, downtown Waycross has been revitalized and now looks really nice; on-street parking, businesses in all the store fronts, new downtown streets and sidewalks, pedestrian friendly intersections, historic street light etc... They even have 4 downtown restaurants now. Now my wife is thinking about going with me.

I am starting to wonder if Walmart will be able to survive in small town America if these communities restore the civic pride they once had. All I know is this - for the first time in my life I am actually looking forward to going to Waycross, GA.

bchris02
08-14-2013, 08:30 AM
I'm not sure if its this way in all markets, but in OKC, Wal-Mart locations are always understaffed and poorly stocked. I don't see their days as numbered yet though. There are too many markets where Wal-Mart has little or no real competition. Most people I know shop there because its convenient and its cheaper plus in OKC they have taken over the way they have many smaller markets. Most people who don't shop at Wal-Mart do so on principle, especially in OKC where its difficult to avoid.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 08:44 AM
We will see if this is a trend I guess but it is safe to say that most small towns were sucker punched by Walmart. Town leaders had visions that Walmart was going to save their towns but all Walmart really did was kick their historic downtowns into their graves. Now some of these small towns are crawling up out of the grave, dusting themselves off, and fighting back.

It's not just Waycross either - other rural towns in the region here are rediscovering their collective civic pride. Check out Stark, FL. I haven't been there in 15 years but the last time I was there downtown was totally abandoned. Now every nearly store is full and they are sporting a sidewalk cafe.

I'm not saying Walmart will be gone in a year (as their parking lots are still full) but I just like where this is going. If Walmart loses small town America that could spell trouble for them.

Bunty
08-14-2013, 08:48 AM
Downtown stores could try surviving better in the presence of big box stores by getting involved in merchandising and services that Wal-Mart wants no part of, such as used merchandize, jewelry repair, bars, nice restaurants, etc. Maybe that's how they did it in Waycross, perhaps along with making downtown a BID (Business Improvement District), meaning downtown business owners had their taxes raised.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 08:59 AM
Since Waycross is just outside the Jacksonville media market I am not sure how they did it but I know the rebuilding of the public realm wasn't free. I agree that if big box retailers would join the effort to bring local downtowns back to life huge progress could be made. Walmart could play a role but it goes against everything their company believes in.

Bunty
08-14-2013, 09:03 AM
Since Waycross is just outside the Jacksonville media market I am not sure how they did it but I know the rebuilding of the public realm wasn't free. I agree that if big box retailers would join the effort to bring local downtowns back to life huge progress could be made. Walmart could play a role but it goes against everything their company believes in.

So a Wal-mart on one side of downtown and a Home Depot on the other wouldn't drive the little stores in between out of business from the big boxes drawing people downtown? If so, maybe the big box stores feel they don't owe the little stores any favor. Wal-Mart wants the little stores in its front, so you have to go to Wal-Mart to get to them.

bchris02
08-14-2013, 09:14 AM
We will see if this is a trend I guess but it is safe to say that most small towns were sucker punched by Walmart. Town leaders had visions that Walmart was going to save their towns but all Walmart really did was kick their historic downtowns into their graves. Now some of these small towns are crawling up out of the grave, dusting themselves off, and fighting back.

It's not just Waycross either - other rural towns in the region here are rediscovering their collective civic pride. Check out Stark, FL. I haven't been there in 15 years but the last time I was there downtown was totally abandoned. Now every nearly store is full and they are sporting a sidewalk cafe.

I'm not saying Walmart will be gone in a year (as their parking lots are still full) but I just like where this is going. If Walmart loses small town America that could spell trouble for them.

One thing about rural America is you once had to drive to larger cities/towns to go to Kmart/Target/TG&Y for even basic staples or buy from the local mom/pop store at a much higher price (if they had what you needed in stock). Wal-Mart brings what was once big-town conveniences to the small town. While Wal-Mart has become a symbol of low-class, rural America, superstores like that used to be non-existent there. While I can definitely see some small boutique towns fighting back, I doubt that is happening in a majority of the cases. Americans are addicted to Wal-Mart.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 09:18 AM
So a Wal-mart on one side of downtown and a Home Depot on the other wouldn't drive the little stores in between out of business from the big boxes drawing people downtown?

I don't think so. If that was the case no retailers would ever locate in a shopping mall or strip shopping center with other stores selling the same items near by. In actuality, the modern shopping mall does exactly what you just described. They put large anchors on the ends, a public feature in the center (usually a fountain, gazebo, or stage) with smaller retailers lining the path in between (with a unified 'streetwall' I might add). BTW - did you know that the stores lining the faux public realm at center court are the most expensive to rent, which is why they are often occupied by jewelry stores, and store near the anchors are the cheapest to rent, which is why they are occupied by pet stores, places selling baseball caps, eye glass stores, and used game dealers (gamestop).

Retailers need to differentiate themselves from each other but when they locate next to each other the whole is greater than the parts. How many places can you buy a shirt at in Penn Sq. mall? If you need a shirt where are you most likely to go if you want options to pick from?

What Walmart did was essentially create their own downtown from a 'goods' stand point, but then they put it on the edge of town with a large parking lot - but what Walmart can't compete with is the sense of place and civic pride an actual downtown can provide - in fact, for many rural towns they killed both of those ideas for a generation.

Stew
08-14-2013, 09:52 AM
As a consumer I've spent a lot of money at Walmart over the years but quite frankly since the 2007 recession Walmart has taken a nosedive, at least in the OKC area. Somewhere along the way they lost me as a customer. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a while. I'm sure others feel the same way. It's a shame too because there was a time when Walmart rocked.

bchris02
08-14-2013, 10:11 AM
As a consumer I've spent a lot of money at Walmart over the years but quite frankly since the 2007 recession Walmart has taken a nosedive, at least in the OKC area. Somewhere along the way they lost me as a customer. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in a while. I'm sure others feel the same way. It's a shame too because there was a time when Walmart rocked.

I agree. Wal-Marts in OKC are some of the worst I've seen as far service, cleanliness, and being well stocked. I wonder why that is the case. My guess is that it has to do with the lack of competition here. Yes there are alternatives but they are negligible and aren't making Wal-Mart sweat at all.

Bunty
08-14-2013, 10:19 AM
I don't think so. If that was the case no retailers would ever locate in a shopping mall or strip shopping center with other stores selling the same items near by. In actuality, the modern shopping mall does exactly what you just described. They put large anchors on the ends, a public feature in the center (usually a fountain, gazebo, or stage) with smaller retailers lining the path in between (with a unified 'streetwall' I might add). BTW - did you know that the stores lining the faux public realm at center court are the most expensive to rent, which is why they are often occupied by jewelry stores, and store near the anchors are the cheapest to rent, which is why they are occupied by pet stores, places selling baseball caps, eye glass stores, and used game dealers (gamestop).


Muskogee and Lawton have enclosed shopping malls downtown. I haven't been to either one in a long time. So I wonder if the presence of their malls have done more harm than good to their downtowns.

kelroy55
08-14-2013, 11:10 AM
I agree. Wal-Marts in OKC are some of the worst I've seen as far service, cleanliness, and being well stocked. I wonder why that is the case. My guess is that it has to do with the lack of competition here. Yes there are alternatives but they are negligible and aren't making Wal-Mart sweat at all.

I have several choices here but I prefer Krogers or Albertsons over Wal-Mart.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 12:01 PM
Muskogee and Lawton have enclosed shopping malls downtown. I haven't been to either one in a long time. So I wonder if the presence of their malls have done more harm than good to their downtowns.

Hold on - you changed one of the criteria there. Enclosed shopping malls generally hurt businesses outside the mall because they steal pedestrian from the sidewalk, a real public realm, and put them in the fake public realm of the center court and mall corridor (which closes when the mall closes and isn't owned by the public at all). It has generally been accepted that enclosed downtown malls turned out to be bad ideas - in fact, based on the vast number of abandoned malls over the last 30 years the entire concept of an indoor might have been a bad idea.

Very interesting article on the rise and fall of the shopping mall.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/arts-and-lifestyle/2012/07/shopping-mall-turns-60-and-prepares-retire/2568/

kelroy55
08-14-2013, 12:20 PM
Anyway back on topic I think Wal-Mart provided something consumers wanted and if there was room for a store in the downtown area they might have built it there. It's the same thing Lowes and Home Depot have done to the old hardware stores.

Teo9969
08-14-2013, 12:32 PM
Are Walmart's days numbered?

Well...I mean, they can only go down from being the #1 Fortune 500 company after overtaking Exxon last year...

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 01:08 PM
What was the #1 company 20 years ago? Hint, their initials are GM. Wal-mart wasn't even in the top 500 back then.

kelroy55
08-14-2013, 01:13 PM
What was the #1 company 20 years ago? Hint, their initials are GM.

The difference is when the economy turns bad people don't buy cars but they still have to buy food and at cheap prices so WM is safer than GM.

Stew
08-14-2013, 01:15 PM
What was the #1 company 20 years ago? Hint, their initials are GM. Wal-mart wasn't even the top 500 back then.

Well it was AT&T so I'm not sure of the tie in to your clue.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 01:27 PM
According to this database it was General Motors.

FORTUNE 500: 1993 Archive Full List 1-100 (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_archive/full/1993/)

Stew
08-14-2013, 01:33 PM
According to this database it was General Motors.

FORTUNE 500: 1993 Archive Full List 1-100 (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_archive/full/1993/)

According to this link it was AT&T. The World's Biggest Companies Over the Past 20 Years-Kiplinger (http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/investing/T052-S001-the-world-s-biggest-companies-over-the-past-20-yea/index.html)

Regardless though I get your point. I think another good example is how quickly sears fell from the top.

kelroy55
08-14-2013, 01:35 PM
According to this database it was General Motors.

FORTUNE 500: 1993 Archive Full List 1-100 (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_archive/full/1993/)

It also depends on what #1 you were talking about. GM profits in your link were -23,498.3 million. I agree with both you and Stew, you can be on top and then in a few years sink.

Teo9969
08-14-2013, 01:52 PM
The point is that in the midst of the emergence/renaissance of Urbanism, Wal-Mart is not only maintaining, it is growing.

And I don't know if anyone has paid attention, but the distance between #1/#2 and #3 is massive.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 01:59 PM
Well, actually.....

Wal-Mart sales decline: America?s largest retailer is slipping as customers move upscale and online. - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/05/wal_mart_sales_decline_america_s_largest_retailer_ is_slipping_as_customers.html)


No company likes to admit problems, but yesterday’s quarterly earnings report from Wal-Mart featured a remarkable amount of excuse-making, even by corporate standards. The company surprised analysts by reporting a 1.4 percent quarterly decline in comparable-store sales across the United States. In other words, Wal-Mart’s American stores sold less stuff this past quarter than the quarter before. Wal-Mart blamed this drop on essentially everything under the sun except people not wanting to shop at their stores:

Teo9969
08-14-2013, 02:04 PM
You're going to bring a quarterly report to a large scope discussion?

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 02:11 PM
A 1000 mile journey starts with a single step.

Teo9969
08-14-2013, 02:23 PM
LOL.

well, we'll see

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 03:02 PM
As I said earlier - Walmart is not going to tank over night - if it ever does. What I find most interesting is that Walmart started with a base of rural small towns in southern states, and it is these very towns that finally re-investing in themselves. Couple that with places like DC which basically prevented Walmart from implementing their business strategy inside the DC city limits and we will see what happens. I think Walmart has reported 2 quarters of declining sales this year.

BBatesokc
08-14-2013, 03:18 PM
Personally I don't get all the Walmart hate. They employ a lot of people, pay decent wages for the work required and give the majority of consumers what they want - variety, and acceptable quality for a low price.

These mom and pop shops everyone is so nostalgic over don't have a workshop of magic elves that crank out some far superior product. In most cases the items these tiny local stores sold were the exact same product Walmart sells - only Walmart carries a wider variety of products and sells them cheaper.

Because of the variety and low price they also attract a type of shopper I'm not real keen on bumping into while going about my day, but that's just the reality of it and why I tend to shop at 7am.

I worked for Walmart many, many years ago and they treated me fine and gave me opportunities to advance and even pay part of my school.

Did they crush a lot of small mom and pop shops? Yep, but that's capitalism and you don't get to pick and choose when its applied. The little guy has plenty of room to succeed even with the Walmarts - some recognize what it takes and other don't.

I probably shop at Walmart twice a week (at least) and I'm thankful for them.

(FYI - The video below is from a cable program and does contain foul language and some nudity. Some viewers may find this offensive, while others may find it mandatory)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A473rAQjsZc

Roger S
08-14-2013, 03:29 PM
Personally I don't get all the Walmart hate. They employ a lot of people, pay decent wages for the work required and give the majority of consumers what they want - variety, and acceptable quality for a low price.



But it's so hip to hate Walmart.

Personally I try and support local as much as I can but it all comes down to convenience for me. If I need something and I can drive a mile to the Walmart and get it... Well I'm driving to the Walmart.

Unfortunately for Walmart I live closer to a Crest than I do the Neighborhood Market..... So the Crest wins most of the time..... Crest really only loses when I get a craving for a big container of Utz Cheese Balls. :tongue:

jerrywall
08-14-2013, 04:07 PM
Personally I don't get all the Walmart hate. They employ a lot of people, pay decent wages for the work required and give the majority of consumers what they want - variety, and acceptable quality for a low price.

I don't have Wal-Mart hate, but I do think they are bad for a community, and what good they provide doesn't offset the bad they contribute. When Wal-Marts were rare, having them in town (ala kingfisher many years ago) they could be a boon to the local economy, bringing in folks from many miles around to shop. Now, they're so prevalent that they don't really bring new business into a community, but they do send their profits out of the community.

Additionally, Wal-Mart workers make almost 30% less than other major retailers. Considering the amount of employees Wal-Mart has, that has a chilling effect on wage growth in the market.

As far as "capitalism", I'm all for that, but cities need to quit giving economic incentives to Wal-Mart. That's not capitalism. If Wal-Mart can't compete against the little local shops without tax incentives and rebates, then maybe THEY'RE doing something wrong.

BBatesokc
08-14-2013, 04:29 PM
Additionally, Wal-Mart workers make almost 30% less than other major retailers.

Where is that number coming from? I've seen averages of 7-11% less (even higher if you just compare it to an individual store like Costco) but never as high as 30% on average. Their corporate website claims the average full time wage is $12.78.

I realize many of their employees are not full time, but if you're working part time and trying to raise a family you need a reality check.

bchris02
08-14-2013, 04:41 PM
I don't have Wal-Mart hate, but I do think they are bad for a community, and what good they provide doesn't offset the bad they contribute. When Wal-Marts were rare, having them in town (ala kingfisher many years ago) they could be a boon to the local economy, bringing in folks from many miles around to shop. Now, they're so prevalent that they don't really bring new business into a community, but they do send their profits out of the community.

Additionally, Wal-Mart workers make almost 30% less than other major retailers. Considering the amount of employees Wal-Mart has, that has a chilling effect on wage growth in the market.

As far as "capitalism", I'm all for that, but cities need to quit giving economic incentives to Wal-Mart. That's not capitalism. If Wal-Mart can't compete against the little local shops without tax incentives and rebates, then maybe THEY'RE doing something wrong.

I agree. I honestly don't mind Wal-Mart in areas where it is simply one of many options. I do however despise when they completely take over and dominate the market.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 05:39 PM
If Walmart pay is so great why do they encourage their employees to go on state and federal assistance programs to supplement their income? Walmart simply uses government programs as part of their total compensation package for their employees by paying their employees just below the qualification threshold. No one in their right mind can call that free market capitalism.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 06:51 PM
I am posting this here for anyone that wants to watch it. It is not a left-wing hit piece and it is not a right-wing hit piece - even though it has been accused of being both. It basically just documents how the Walmart business model works. The video quality is kind of crappy but it is available on Netflix instant view for those wanting to watch it in HD.

Favorite quote: We start talking about quality of life and they start talking about cheap underwear.

Walmart: The High Cost of Low Prices

Jazb24Q2s94

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 07:03 PM
I realize many of their employees are not full time, but if you're working part time and trying to raise a family you need a reality check.

That is one of the problems - the local jobs that were lost were capable of raising a family on. Explain how trading a job that a person can raise a family on for 2 jobs that people can't raise a family is good for anyone.

BBatesokc
08-14-2013, 08:54 PM
That is one of the problems - the local jobs that were lost were capable of raising a family on. Explain how trading a job that a person can raise a family on for 2 jobs that people can't raise a family is good for anyone.

I don't believe for one second a cashier at some mom and pop joint that went out of business was being paid substantially more money.

I worked for Walmart and managed to pay my bills just fine. I also knew being a cashier was for the young or the retired.

If you're gonna raise a family, I suggest you put forth more effort than to be a cashier or stock shelves. People can take that however they want, but to expect someone to make $30,000+ a year for a Walmart level menial position is crazy IMO.

Stew
08-14-2013, 09:31 PM
I don't believe for one second a cashier at some mom and pop joint that went out of business was being paid substantially more money.

I worked for Walmart and managed to pay my bills just fine. I also knew being a cashier was for the young or the retired.

If you're gonna raise a family, I suggest you put forth more effort than to be a cashier or stock shelves. People can take that however they want, but to expect someone to make $30,000+ a year for a Walmart level menial position is crazy IMO.

Why is it crazy to expect somebody working for one of the largest companies in the history of mankind in one of the wealthiest countries in the history of mankind to make a livable wage? Cashiers working at grocery stores in Germany do, why is it not possible here? JMHO.

ThomPaine
08-14-2013, 09:38 PM
Why is it crazy to expect somebody working for one of the largest companies in the history of mankind in one of the wealthiest countries in the history of mankind to make a livable wage? Cashiers working at grocery stores in Germany do, why is it not possible here? JMHO.

For the same reason we don't have a workable national healthcare plan, or high speed rail, or decent roads.

soonerguru
08-14-2013, 10:01 PM
If there's one thing that irks me to no end, it is Wal-Mart apologists. Fine, if you want your crappy cheap Chinese stuff and it's convenient, go for it, but don't go bragging about Wal-Mart being a good corporate citizen. It is a vile company.

RadicalModerate
08-14-2013, 10:09 PM
I'm not sure why . . . But this just popped into my frame of reference:
O4ne13Zft9Q
Who's who within the context of this discussion?

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 10:16 PM
Why is it crazy to expect somebody working for one of the largest companies in the history of mankind in one of the wealthiest countries in the history of mankind to make a livable wage? Cashiers working at grocery stores in Germany do, why is it not possible here? JMHO.

Last week the City of Washington DC passed an ordinance that companies the size of Walmart have to pay $12/hour. The average Walmart store makes something like $100 million per year and they were going to open 3 in DC. Walmart said they were not going to open the stores if the ordinance passes. You would think for $300 million a year Walmart could pay $12/hr - but I guess not.

RadicalModerate
08-14-2013, 10:23 PM
Well . . . that's one way to keep Walmart from running down the neighborhood.

just out of curiosity . . . is Washington D.C. a city?
like, doesn't The City of Washington District of Columbia sound a little goofy?

soonerguru
08-14-2013, 10:24 PM
Last week the City of Washington DC passed an ordinance that companies the size of Walmart have to pay $12/hour. The average Walmart store makes something like $100 million per year and they were going to open 3 in DC. Walmart said they were not going to open the stores if the ordinance passes. You would think for $300 million a year Walmart could pay $12/hr - but I guess not.

Good. Wal-Mart has been desperate to enter that market -- as well as NYC -- for years. If they don't want to pay the people, tough.

CaptDave
08-14-2013, 10:24 PM
I am posting this here for anyone that wants to watch it. It is not a left-wing hit piece and it is not a right-wing hit piece - even though it has been accused of being both. It basically just documents how the Walmart business model works. The video quality is kind of crappy but it is available on Netflix instant view for those wanting to watch it in HD.

Favorite quote: We start talking about quality of life and they start talking about cheap underwear.

Walmart: The High Cost of Low Prices

I thought the segment where the town officials said WalMart essentially extorted infrastructure from the town by threatening to build the Supercenter just outside the city limits was most indicative of the type of scum running Walmart today. They would still be getting the customers and avoid paying any taxes to the town. And killing the local businesses and downtown in the process. I think Sam Walton has rolled a milion miles in his grave......

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 10:28 PM
I worked for Walmart and managed to pay my bills just fine. I also knew being a cashier was for the young or the retired.

If you're gonna raise a family, I suggest you put forth more effort than to be a cashier or stock shelves. People can take that however they want, but to expect someone to make $30,000+ a year for a Walmart level menial position is crazy IMO.

Big deal, 25 years ago I went to a public high school in California. I wouldn't send my kids to one today. The average Walmart employee makes $15,576 per year based on a 34 hour work week - which has since been lowered to 29 hours resulting in a full time job earning $13,285 per year.

My fellow right-wingers can't on one hand complain that the Obama recovery is all low paying part time jobs and then on the other hand laud Walmart for job creation. It's laughable. Here in Florida there are more full-time (29 hours or more per week) Walmart employees on food stamps than any other company and Walmart is the largest in employer in 33 states - anyone care to guess in how many of those states Walmart employees are also at the top of food stamp recipient list? If not for taxpayer funded social programs people couldn't afford to work at Walmart.

RadicalModerate
08-14-2013, 10:30 PM
I heard somewhere that Sam's grave was opened so a stake could be driven through his heart to make sure he couldn't come back . . .
sg4iICHsOYc

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 10:32 PM
I thought the segment where the town officials said WalMart essentially extorted infrastructure from the town by threatening to build the Supercenter just outside the city limits was most indicative of the type of scum running Walmart today. They still getting the customers and avoid paying any taxes to the town. And killing the local businesses and downtown in the process. I think Sam Walton has rolled a milion miles in his grave......

Pretty freaking disgusting wasn't it. Of course, I have no love for the Ace Hardware guy at the beginning either - he did is own part to kill his little hometown city center long before Walmart showed up.

Bunty
08-14-2013, 10:33 PM
Last week the City of Washington DC passed an ordinance that companies the size of Walmart have to pay $12/hour. The average Walmart store makes something like $100 million per year and they were going to open 3 in DC. Walmart said they were not going to open the stores if the ordinance passes. You would think for $300 million a year Walmart could pay $12/hr - but I guess not.

Is Target already there and paying close to $12 an hour? If so I'm sure Target is happy to be protected from new competition.

CaptDave
08-14-2013, 10:34 PM
I heard somewhere that Sam's grave was opened so a stake could be driven through his heart to make sure he couldn't come back . . .

Yeah - opened by his kids and people running the company today so he wouldn't come back for them.

RadicalModerate
08-14-2013, 10:35 PM
"Ed . . . Zacary" . . . =)

Did you hear or read the report that at one of the first big corporate get-togethers after the demise of St. Sam that the family and the overpaid suits actually hired a medium to attempt to channel his spirit? Bet that wouldn't happen today.

soonerguru
08-14-2013, 10:36 PM
Is Target already there?

Yes, there's a target in Columbia Heights, Northwest.

RadicalModerate
08-14-2013, 10:44 PM
If you think about it, blame for planting the seed for all this can be pointed at Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger for opening the door to trade with China and promoting what has become The Global Economy in which the "lifestyle" of the population will be gradually reduced to equal/the lowest common denominator. In other words, "The Great Leveling".

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 10:49 PM
There is one Walmart inside the beltway and six Targets. If you want to laugh and throw-up in your mouth at the same time compare any of the six Targets to the Walmart store. I don't know if I have ever seen a parking lot that big between the street and the building and I have been to the parking lot at the Magic Kingdom. It has a 1000' setback from the street.

Just the facts
08-14-2013, 10:51 PM
If you think about it, blame for planting the seed for all this can be pointed at Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger for opening the door to trade with China and promoting what has become The Global Economy in which the "lifestyle" of the population will be gradually reduced to equal/the lowest common denominator. In other words, "The Great Leveling".

Dang it - where is that like button?


The guy from Ace Hardware made a great a point about that. China was able to short-cut the whole market building process by dealing directly with Walmart. They were a one-stop importer for China.

CaptDave
08-14-2013, 10:58 PM
Dang it - where is that like button?


The guy from Ace Hardware made a great a point about that. China was able to short-cut the whole market building process by dealing directly with Walmart. They were a one-stop importer for China.

Yet when WalMart really started their rapid expansion 20 years ago or so, they loved to wrap themselves in the flag and claim the "Made in the USA" products they were selling was alturistically keeping Americans employed. Wonder what happened to that alturism? My guess is a few of those exalted "job creators" got greedy.

RadicalModerate
08-14-2013, 11:00 PM
How many centuries of history does China have? There were Dynasties that lasted longer than the entire history of the U.S.A. Historians of the future will write that "the communist experiment" was an anomoly. In Chinese.

What makes me think about stuff like this was reading some "Histories of Eastern Civilizations" textbooks in an introductory class in college, team-taught by some "younger" prof who looked like a fat Dennis Miller with glasses and an old, old guy who at one time was a U.S. "advisor" to Chaing Kai Shek (sp). I remember there were about three pages in the whole book about the Assyrians or Hittites or Whateverites that had empires that lasted 800 to 1000 years.

Say! How about the bozos occupying the seats of power in The City of Washington District of Columbia make Walmart register as an agent of a foreign government? =)

soonerguru
08-14-2013, 11:19 PM
One thing worth adding to the discussion: Target isn't much better than Wal-Mart as far as its corporate citizenry is concerned. It's just damned lucky to have such an egregious competitor to make it look like the "good" choice. It does offer nicer stores and more stylish products, though, even if they're also manufactured in Asian sweat shops.

BBatesokc
08-15-2013, 05:30 AM
Why is it crazy to expect somebody working for one of the largest companies in the history of mankind in one of the wealthiest countries in the history of mankind to make a livable wage? Cashiers working at grocery stores in Germany do, why is it not possible here? JMHO.

I didn't say they shouldn't make a livable wage - I said if you're gonna try and raise a family on a Walmart menial job then you best think again. Why does it matter how big the company is? The task you're being paid for is the task you're being paid for. Really curious how much people here think a cashier or stocker should be paid? Personally I have no problem with it being a $9-$10/hr starting wage and maxing out somewhere around $12. You wanna make more? Make yourself more valuable to the company and move up to something else, they promote from within. If being a cashier is the extent of your ability, then so be it. But don't think you're going to raise yourself, and some kids on that $10-$13/hour.

Attack walmart all you want, but show me this cashier/stocker 'Promise Land.' Do Target, Lowes, Home Depot, Braums, etc. pay so much higher for the same job? I know Costco gets koddos for their wages, but certainly for all this hatred towards Walmart that must mean cashiers across the street make $20/hr.

What about all these lovely local eateries we all talk about - are their cashiers getting 40-hour weeks, full health insurance and $15/hr salaries to start?

BBatesokc
08-15-2013, 05:53 AM
Big deal, 25 years ago I went to a public high school in California. I wouldn't send my kids to one today. The average Walmart employee makes $15,576 per year based on a 34 hour work week - which has since been lowered to 29 hours resulting in a full time job earning $13,285 per year.

My fellow right-wingers can't on one hand complain that the Obama recovery is all low paying part time jobs and then on the other hand laud Walmart for job creation. It's laughable. Here in Florida there are more full-time (29 hours or more per week) Walmart employees on food stamps than any other company and Walmart is the largest in employer in 33 states - anyone care to guess in how many of those states Walmart employees are also at the top of food stamp recipient list? If not for taxpayer funded social programs people couldn't afford to work at Walmart.

I guess I missed the part where all these people were forced to work at Walmart. Oh right, Walmart ran all the $40,000/yr cashier jobs out of town - what a joke.

If someone wants to have a job where they are done for the week at only 29-hours and $13,000/yr then unless you can show me otherwise - that was their choice.

By my calculations a single person would not qualify for foodstamps in Oklahoma with a full time Walmart job (maximum income of $1,180 to qualify). I'm guessing all these foodstamp recipients are indeed trying to raise an entire family on their cashier job (thus raising the maximum allowable income) and apparently don't have a working spouse or spouse at all. Nothing wrong with being a cashier, I respect anyone who is willing to hold a job, but its simply unrealistic to think you can raise yourself and a couple of kids (or more) on such a menial job.

Could Walmart pay more? Certainly. Are they obligated to? No.

People pick and choose what to be outraged by and that's fine. Personally, I don't see where Walmart is not a direct reflection of our society - we want selection, we want convenience, we want cheap and we want it now. We don't care if we really need it or what impoverished nation it came from or what the impact was to get it to the shelf so we could buy it and probably throw it away weeks or months later. Sorry, but that's virtually all of us and Walmart is simply filling that 'greed/need.' If Americans were really upset with Walmart then Walmart would cease to exist - yet they make billions.

Just the facts
08-15-2013, 07:51 AM
If someone wants to have a job where they are done for the week at only 29-hours and $13,000/yr then unless you can show me otherwise - that was their choice.


You are missing the point. Walmart hires people at 40 hours per week, then they start cutting their hours. To make up for the lost income they help sign their employees up for government programs. They keep doing this until they quit or are working 29 hours. If they quit, they get the next person and repeat the process. If you are happy with Walmart using taxpayer dollars to supplement their compensation program then by all means keep shopping at Walmart.

But it isn't just the hours worked that makes Walmart a bad company. They extort tax dollars from many of the communities they are in. Just look at Choctaw. If the towns don't pay up for whatever reason Walmart locates just outside the city limits. As some towns have learned, just when the tax rebates are about to expire and the local towns start to reap the benefit of selling their soul, Walmart moves out of town anyhow - sometimes just right across the street outside the city limits - leaving behind blight in the form of a 100,000 sq foot abandoned building and 10 acres of parking.

I'm not advocating Walmart be made illegal - I am advocating that people stand up for their towns and communities and stop shopping there because it is the right thing to do.