Design to be unveiled today...

Hyperloop Design For High-Speed Transportation Between Los Angeles And San Francisco To Be Unveiled On Monday (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12/hyperloop-design_n_3741899.html)


Twice as fast as an airplane, cheaper than a bullet train and completely self-powered: that's the mysterious transportation system that inventor and entrepreneur Elon Musk is promising to reveal design plans for Monday.

It sounds outrageous but I have learned to never doubt Elon Musk.....

Just some historical context - the first NYC subway was pneumatic - and that was 140 years ago.

Beach Pneumatic Transit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit)

Anyhow - we don't have a trillion dollars to build it so big deal. If he can do it on his own dime - more power to him.

Here is some preliminary info:

Hyperloop | Blog | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/hyperloop)

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf

I want to know how to make something that looks like it will mostly be bridges or subterranean be cheaper than at grade, since typically those are the most expensive parts per mile of current transit systems.

That is my question also. Prefab tubes only save so much....

It appears that the width of the twin tubes would be a little over twenty feet, about the width of the pavement on a two lane road. With a comparatively light load, well below highway loads, the piers should also be considerably smaller. Those two factors alone will make for a considerable difference in cost per mile.

If it happens awesome, if it doesn't...then hopefully what is learned can be applied elsewhere. Regardless, it is great o have innovator like this still around to keep us evolving. It may not be flying cars or hoverboards...but it could definitely be better. I think for proof of concept trials they need to find an area between two large cities that is mostly flat to give it a go. Somewhere like Chicago-St. Louis or Houston-Dallas.

I agree with the sentiments of other. If this was anyone else, it wouldn't be on the news and if it was, we'd all be rolling our eyes. But this is Elon Musk. We've all learned not to laugh at the guy. He seemingly does the impossible, over and over.

I just watched a hangout where he said he'd like to work on supersonic vertical-take airplanes next. Elon Musk and Sir Richard Branson Hangout on air - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Vy9y_YSpYxA)

Like all brilliant inventors, you sort of think he's got to fail pretty miserably eventually. Don't know if it is going to be on the Hyperloop or what but I'm sure not betting against him.


"I think I kind of shot myself by ever mentioning the Hyperloop," he said. "I don't have any plans to execute, because I must remain focused on SpaceX and Tesla."

He's just throwing ideas out there. He currently has no plans to develop it further. Probably an engineers way of having fun when they have spare time.

I would like to see this developed on a smaller scale though like on a large college campus. Similar to the Jetsons or the turbolift on Startrek. lol

He's just throwing ideas out there. He currently has no plans to develop it further. Probably an engineers way of having fun when they have spare time.

I would like to see this developed on a smaller scale though like on a large college campus. Similar to the Jetsons or the turbolift on Startrek. lol

Well one thing he is doing it putting all the ideas out as "open source" so others can build on it.

Well one thing he is doing it putting all the ideas out as "open source" so others can build on it.

He's putting what out there as open source? The idea of pushing people through a pneumatic tube has been around for centuries. They built one in New York City 140 years ago. To be honest, he is borderline delusional if he thinks he is the first person to come up with this idea. What is he going to do next - devise a system of sails to catch wind so we can sail around the world without carbon based power and then make it "open source" so others can figure how to do it?

At least Dean Kamen actually made his 'revolutionary' mode of transportation.

He's putting what out there as open source? The idea of pushing people through a pneumatic tube has been around for centuries. They built one in New York City 140 years ago. To be honest, he is borderline delusional if he thinks he is the first person to come up with this idea. What is he going to do next - devise a system of sails to catch wind so we can sail around the world without carbon based power and then make it "open source" so others can figure how to do it?

At least Dean Kamen actually made his 'revolutionary' mode of transportation.

Here are 57 pages to start with. :) http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf

Okay- my mistake. I thought Elon was proposing something serious. I understand now that this is a joke. My guess is he got drunk and passed out, woke up during the opening credits of Futurama, mistook it for a vision, and passed out again - and thus awoke in the morning with the idea of the Tube Transport System.

If he is serious, I suggest he watch about 2 hours of tunnel boring machines on the Discovery Channel and then revise his cost estimates accordingly. You couldn't lay a 20 foot wide path of gravel from LA to San Fran for his cost estimate.

Okay- my mistake. I thought Elon was proposing something serious. I understand now that this is a joke. My guess is he got drunk and passed out, woke up during the opening credits of Futurama, mistook it for a vision, and passed out again - and thus awoke in the morning with the idea of the Tube Transport System.

If he is serious, I suggest he watch about 2 hours of tunnel boring machines on the Discovery Channel and then revise his cost estimates accordingly. You couldn't lay a 20 foot wide path of gravel from LA to San Fran for his cost estimate.

I saw an interview where he was talking about the problems that made him think about this, most of the issues he talked about were the same ones that lead planners back to traditional urban design, I think the main difference was his origin of looking at the problems was all the likely issues around the 'high' speed rail that has a best case scenario of under performing at a higher price compared to most HSR around the world.

Like a lot of technologies, I am expecting this is something that may look good on paper to someone who likes the concept till you get further along in the development process. Also it sounded like he was musing more into the technical than the cost side of things.

Okay- my mistake. I thought Elon was proposing something serious. I understand now that this is a joke. My guess is he got drunk and passed out, woke up during the opening credits of Futurama, mistook it for a vision, and passed out again - and thus awoke in the morning with the idea of the Tube Transport System.

If he is serious, I suggest he watch about 2 hours of tunnel boring machines on the Discovery Channel and then revise his cost estimates accordingly. You couldn't lay a 20 foot wide path of gravel from LA to San Fran for his cost estimate.

But if it's all imaginary money anyways what does it matter?
(as soon as i saw "Hyperloop" i was hooked. then i saw "Tesla" somewhere in the text. someone needs to invent a new "Godwin's Law" for good ol' Nicola . . . sorry . . . that didn't sound "Visionary" at all . . . he might have awakened somewhere in the middle of the Terry Gilliam Classic, "Brazil" =)

I would bet that there are a bunch of rich and stupid people willing to invest in Hyperloop.
(again: suggested reading: "The Mark Inside" Amy Reading)

I wonder if they got this idea from Polar Express. If you remember, the elves took a pneumatic tube to the Town Square for the send off for Santa Claus.

Why don't "THEY" compromise and come up with an App for this?

Since this seems to be a proposal related to connecting LA with SF . . .
Would an earthquake along the route be simple "tubulance" or perhaps a more aggravating and expensive occurance?

When The Peers review it, I sure hope that they are looking to define the parameters of turbulance rather than tubulance. Hopefully, all of this will be completed before the launch of the first Starship Enterprise . . .(it will be equipped with "Transporters" that will make the Hyperloop as outmoded as 8-Track tapes and Segways).

I'll tell you what Sid, I am willing to wait and see how this pans out. Peer review (if it happens) will be interesting. There are a lot of technical and social issues that need to be resolved and mitigated before a single glass tube is depressurized. In the mean time, I am waiting to hear how his battery swap plan is going to be scalable to match the capacity of a typical gas station - but that is a discussion for another thread.

Kerry... I'm suspecting a bad box of Wheaties was picked up at the grocery store. This does not sound lke the typical you.

Anything that can challenge and motivate more thought and research in rail should be applauded, not viciously rejected.

Your posts come across like the people who post on NewsOK about public transit.

Let's just say I have my doubts in economic feasibility, technical capabilities, and social responsibility.

The technology to make this feasible and cost-effective may not exist, and this project may not be completed in our lifetimes (or EVER). But we'll be rewarded by what is learned and accomplished in the process. This is reminiscent of the US manned spaceflight program in the 1960s, beginning with President Kennedy's challenge, "Ask not..." Even if we never put a man on the moon, look at what was learned and accomplished through Mercury, Gemini and Apollo.

I saw this on the noon newscast on KFOR today but it wasn't the first time I had seen renderings. I actually saw the concept on my StumbleUpon app as far back as 6 months ago. Sounds pretty awesome but cost wise, highly unlikely.

He addresses this in the alpha document with the suggestion of using independent pylons for risers. Shows at least hypothetically how much resonance each could withstand.

I'm not a seismologist and I look forward to peer review to determine the validity of his solution.


Ooooh ooooh, I am a seismologist!! There are various things you can do to protect the pylons. One would be to put them on a float like many large buildings. So, when the surface waves come through, the ground will shake but the pylon will only slightly move. The other idea (although only theoretical because I've never seen it implemented) is to surround the base of the pylons with rings of varying widths and consisting of material with various seismic velocities. Designed properly, this will cause the waves to bend away from the pylons. This would have to have a relatively large footprint, however, given the general amplitude/frequency of earthquake energy.

The real fear would be running this across an active fault line (and California has a lot of them) like the San Andreas. Look at some of the aerial images of this fault where streams are cut and separated by 1000's of feet. Could you imagine riding in the tunnel when that fault slips and there is nothing but empty air because the tube has been segmented?

...and they can build a Turbinomics building next to each pressure relief port to make use of all the discarded air! I feel a shiver up my leg!

When you're talking about 1mm worth of clearance, even the slightest shake will cause a crash. There are also issues with heat from the friction of even 1/1000 an atmosphere. The amount of water he's requiring the car to take to keep things cool is crazy...and having to keep the steam on-board. There's a pressure disaster waiting to happen. And if you do have hull breach, you're in practical vacuum with no escape hatches in the tubes. He doesn't yet have a solution for that (although i can think of several ways to isolate the area and "vent" in outside air. Not to mention the fact that if it gets stuck, it can't get going again. Unless they have some sort of booster onboard, it's screwed. The linear drive is 2 miles long, so you can't exactlly carry that onboard.

Aside from technical and costs issues, the main drawbacks on time and hassle for flying direct to the destination is security and optionally baggage checking, especially on short hops like LAX to SFO where HSR might be done first. While for the most part trains have had low security compared to airports, something like this probably forces that to change.