View Full Version : Stillwater to Vote on $36,000,000 For Capital Improvements



Bunty
08-08-2013, 10:35 AM
I doubt if OSU students are going to like having .5 more in sales tax added on to everything they buy in Stillwater. But then college students hardly ever vote on anything. It will be up to the townspeople to decide. If they think their taxes are already high enough, they will probably vote NO.

http://www.stwnewspress.com/breakin...illion-in-upgrades-Voters-will-have-final-say

Stillwater councilors discuss city improvement plan Local News Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x1538943234/Stillwater-councilors-discuss-city-improvement-plan)

Spartan
08-08-2013, 10:43 AM
Sooo... Some ball fields, something vague about public safety, and something vague about public transit based on existing infrastructure.

People would probably like a half penny tax if it produced some MAPS-like results. This program was originally envisioned when Bartlett ran for mayor because he wanted to harness a MAPS-like program for Stillwater based on the extraordinary success in OKC.

This is not even close to being MAPS-like. Or even Vision-like, which was a watered down version of MAPS.

Bunty
08-08-2013, 03:16 PM
Try this link if first one above doesn't work: http://www.stwnewspress.com/breakingnews/x125811801/City-Council-approves-36-million-in-upgrades-Voters-will-have-final-say

It's somewhat similar to what was voted on and rejected from about 10 years ago, except for a new police station that was approved. So maybe the city manager didn't want to get too ambitious with the voters. What if the proposal was twice as big, meaning a 1 cent increase in city sales tax and a $180 property tax increase on a $100,000 house? It would probably only have half as much of a chance of passing. At any rate, Stillwater needs more civic greatness than having one of the best police stations in the state as pictured. Stillwater needs to build a real community center sooner or later. Trying to base one on an old middle school looks ridiculous.

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles28668.jpg

Just the facts
08-08-2013, 08:13 PM
Weaver said the city would look to improve any structure pertaining to public transportation

Does anyone know what structure he could possible be talking about?

Spartan
08-09-2013, 07:41 AM
Does anyone know what structure he could possible be talking about?

Probably... a road.

The Stillwater leadership doesn't really know any of the technical terms that make up a city. Weaver comes across like more of a good ole boy than a major university Finance VP.

OKCRT
08-09-2013, 09:39 AM
They should ask Daddy T-bone to foot the bill.

Spartan
08-09-2013, 09:42 AM
What's funny about that is i think the citizens of Stillwater covered a significant portion of the bill for raising the roof on GIA

Bunty
08-10-2013, 12:18 PM
They should ask Daddy T-bone to foot the bill.

Really. Pickens took out a lot of residential property off the tax rolls to clear the way for OSU's Athletic Village.

Stillwater High School plans to build an Athletic Village of its own on property it has already acquired to the north of it. But it won't be financially able to start construction for a few more years. Pickens ought to offer to help pay for it to get it started now. He also ought to help Stillwater in other ways. Who knows how many star high school athletes thinking about going to OSU turned it down, because they thought Stillwater was such a crappy town, compared to other places they were thinking about?

Spartan
08-14-2013, 07:42 AM
How in the hell does developing a high school athletic village make Stillwater a nicer town? Those houses north of Hall of Fame were ratholes and that housing stock is now being replaced by a boom in new housing development, most of which is more urban in nature.

You townies are absurd. OSU is forcing Stillwater to be a nice town, but it's not without objections from anyone without university ties.

This is why a Stillwater MAPS is a ghastly idea - lack of vision amongst the townies. Stillwater needs more development and redevelopment built to a higher standard, NOT a new police HQ, family baseball tournament fields, and a high school athletic village.

lasomeday
08-16-2013, 05:14 PM
Spartan.....You have no idea what you are talking about or the socioeconomic nature of Stillwater. Have you been to Stillwater since you were 10? It has come along way! Downtown is 10 times better than Main Street in Norman and has more housing than Main Street. It has a great urban vibe and a great since of community.

I would live in Stillwater any day over Cleveland.... wait I have!

soonerguru
08-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Spartan.....You have no idea what you are talking about or the socioeconomic nature of Stillwater. Have you been to Stillwater since you were 10? It has come along way! Downtown is 10 times better than Main Street in Norman and has more housing than Main Street. It has a great urban vibe and a great since of community.

I would live in Stillwater any day over Cleveland.... wait I have!

Not speaking for Spartan, but he did attend OSU, so I'm pretty sure he understands Stillwater.

Spartan
08-18-2013, 03:33 AM
Having transferred from one to the other in my day, not that I want to incite any rivalry in this thread, gives me a good comparative sense for what a college town should be. Norman has a lot of issues, too.

Lasomeday - our posts actually agree. Go back and re-read mine.

Bunty
10-21-2013, 11:27 AM
Spartan.....You have no idea what you are talking about or the socioeconomic nature of Stillwater. Have you been to Stillwater since you were 10? It has come along way! Downtown is 10 times better than Main Street in Norman and has more housing than Main Street. It has a great urban vibe and a great since of community.

I would live in Stillwater any day over Cleveland.... wait I have!
Some of the buildings downtown are undergoing extensive remodeling, a sight to see in a town with two Wal-marts and several large strip malls. Downtown, though, could use a high rise, or two. Maybe Stillwater National Bank, or a local energy company should build one.

Bunty
10-21-2013, 11:40 AM
You townies are absurd. OSU is forcing Stillwater to be a nice town, but it's not without objections from anyone without university ties.

This is why a Stillwater MAPS is a ghastly idea - lack of vision amongst the townies. Stillwater needs more development and redevelopment built to a higher standard, NOT a new police HQ, family baseball tournament fields, and a high school athletic village.

OSU, in moving its many gifts of art to the old downtown post office, is one way OSU is forcing Stillwater to be a nicer town.

Stillwater got it's fine new police station over 5 years ago. It was about the only item voters approved of on a list of capital improvement proposals.

If Stillwater population continues to grow at a significant rate, nearly 20% since 2000, decent development is bound to come. Further, if it votes YES Nov. 12 for $36,000,000 in capital improvement projects, it should help make Stillwater more attractive to developers as well as industry. More on that: Stillwater officials brief county officials on capital improvement plans Local News Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x862177270/Stillwater-officials-brief-county-officials-on-capital-improvement-plans)

Just the facts
10-21-2013, 12:05 PM
I would vote against Proposition 2 and replace it with a mass mailing that says "If you move far away from a fire station it will take the fire department long to reach you." - and leave it at that.

Bunty
10-21-2013, 12:49 PM
If replacing an old fire station with a newly relocated one will bring down the cost of fire insurance, they should point it out. If not, it may not be needed at such a high priority.

Plutonic Panda
10-21-2013, 03:11 PM
I would vote against Proposition 2 and replace it with a mass mailing that says "If you move far away from a fire station it will take the fire department long to reach you." - and leave it at that.trying to force people to live in a high-density environment?

Dubya61
10-21-2013, 03:53 PM
trying to force people to live in a high-density environment?

No. Trying to have people pay for the level of municipal support they are demanding.

Plutonic Panda
10-21-2013, 03:56 PM
No. Trying to have people pay for the level of municipal support they are demanding.So increase taxes a little bit if necessary, but don't spread fear propaganda to try and "force" people to live closer to the core where most public services are. It is common knowledge that if you live further way from a fire station, it will take longer for them to respond, any three year old could tell you that. We might as well send out letter that say it will take you longer to get to the grocer and restaurants if you live far out from the the city.

Just the facts
10-21-2013, 05:24 PM
So increase taxes a little bit if necessary, but don't spread fear propaganda to try and "force" people to live closer to the core where most public services are. It is common knowledge that if you live further way from a fire station, it will take longer for them to respond, any three year old could tell you that. We might as well send out letter that say it will take you longer to get to the grocer and restaurants if you live far out from the the city.

Good idea, I would support those mailing as well. Sadly, these same people just expect retail and city services to follow them where ever they live but cry when asked to pay for it. Meanwhile, the people who chose to live closer to the existing fire station - thus saving the city money on roads and services, get shafted when the fire station moves. Now those people have to pay for a new station, another fire truck, and get worse service. Then we get threads like "What happened to NW OKC". Well duh - THIS is what happened.

Plutonic Panda
10-21-2013, 05:28 PM
Why would you waste money sending a piece of mail with information in it everyone already knows?

Also, you blame sprawl and people wanting to live in a suburban environment for what happened to NW OKC, I blame lack of community pride and investment. There are plenty of urban areas in horrible disrepair and in the same state as The Village/Bethany and worse.

Just the facts
10-21-2013, 05:59 PM
I'll just leave at this - as I don't want to derail the thread anymore.

Bunty
10-21-2013, 06:35 PM
Meanwhile, the people who chose to live closer to the existing fire station - thus saving the city money on roads and services, get shafted when the fire station moves. Now those people have to pay for a new station, another fire truck, and get worse service. Then we get threads like "What happened to NW OKC". Well duh - THIS is what happened.

Too true. The fire station they want to close and move to a new one near the opposite corner of OSU is in a heavily urbanized part of Stillwater. I bet I would vote NO, if I lived in that neighborhood. Without that current fire station nearby, Eskimo Joe's and the Hideaway stand a bigger chance of burning down.

Pictured is fire station to be closed and and a new one built in a different location, if approved by vote of the people:

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicv/vfiles28689.jpg

onthestrip
10-21-2013, 07:21 PM
Seems pretty odd to want to demolish that campus fire station. I'd at least like to hear the reasons for it. It seems like it'd be a waste to tear down a historic building the easily serves the fire safety students as well as the dense, surrounding area.

CuatrodeMayo
10-21-2013, 08:54 PM
Seems pretty odd to want to demolish that campus fire station. I'd at least like to hear the reasons for it. It seems like it'd be a waste to tear down a historic building the easily serves the fire safety students as well as the dense, surrounding area.
Whoa! what? I missed the tear down part.

Bunty
10-21-2013, 09:39 PM
Whoa! what? I missed the tear down part.

So did I. But OSU may be faced with what to do with a vacated fire station.

onthestrip
10-21-2013, 11:00 PM
Reading some of the above posts I just assumed it would be torn down. I have no idea if that's the case so don't take my word.

HangryHippo
10-22-2013, 07:39 AM
That would be a real shame if OSU were to demolish that building. Surely a university known for its college of design could re-purpose such a facility.

Spartan
10-27-2013, 04:37 PM
This whole thing is a really, really bad idea.

Why is that no longer a good fire station anymore? Do people not live around campus? Are there no longer any fires in the central part of Stillwater? There are already other fire stations out in the suburban stretches of Stillwater.

I don't get it. I thought OSU had some kind of firefighting/emergency mgmt academic program that also used that facility.



OSU, in moving its many gifts of art to the old downtown post office, is one way OSU is forcing Stillwater to be a nicer town.

Stillwater got it's fine new police station over 5 years ago. It was about the only item voters approved of on a list of capital improvement proposals.

If Stillwater population continues to grow at a significant rate, nearly 20% since 2000, decent development is bound to come. Further, if it votes YES Nov. 12 for $36,000,000 in capital improvement projects, it should help make Stillwater more attractive to developers as well as industry. More on that: Stillwater officials brief county officials on capital improvement plans Local News Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x862177270/Stillwater-officials-brief-county-officials-on-capital-improvement-plans)

Can you explain how it will make Stillwater more attractive to developers and "industry" ??

Bunty
10-27-2013, 05:50 PM
This whole thing is a really, really bad idea.

Why is that no longer a good fire station anymore? Do people not live around campus? Are there no longer any fires in the central part of Stillwater? There are already other fire stations out in the suburban stretches of Stillwater.

I don't get it. I thought OSU had some kind of firefighting/emergency mgmt academic program that also used that facility.

Can you explain how it will make Stillwater more attractive to developers and "industry" ??

It's little different from the reason why United Airlines chose Indianapolis over Oklahoma City for a maintenance plant during the early 1990's. United told Oklahoma City officials that Indianapolis won because it offered a superior quality of life. And so Stillwater Mayor Bartley in commenting on the $36,000,000 project said, “Essentially, we are wanting to improve the quality of life”. OSU President Burns Hargis has said something similar.

It was said the fire station needed relocated near the opposite corner of OSU to better serve western Stillwater. At least from there, the fire trucks will be able to arrive quicker to fires in OSU student housing. OSU's president supports the whole plan. While at a local meeting he said what's good for Stillwater is good for Oklahoma State University: http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x134978549/Oklahoma-State-president-Our-Stillwater-is-about-pride

Bunty
10-29-2013, 09:06 AM
What the local opposition says: ?Our Stillwater? foes question city?s priorities Local News Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x703149739/-Our-Stillwater-foes-question-city-s-priorities)

venture
10-31-2013, 01:03 AM
Who would still use the United to IND example? That facility is long closed and dead.

Just the facts
10-31-2013, 05:40 AM
Who would still use the United to IND example? That facility is long closed and dead.

..and Indy is stuck with nearly a billion dollars in debt on the deal.

Spartan
11-04-2013, 04:28 PM
It's little different from the reason why United Airlines chose Indianapolis over Oklahoma City for a maintenance plant during the early 1990's. United told Oklahoma City officials that Indianapolis won because it offered a superior quality of life. And so Stillwater Mayor Bartley in commenting on the $36,000,000 project said, “Essentially, we are wanting to improve the quality of life”. OSU President Burns Hargis has said something similar.

It was said the fire station needed relocated near the opposite corner of OSU to better serve western Stillwater. At least from there, the fire trucks will be able to arrive quicker to fires in OSU student housing. OSU's president supports the whole plan. While at a local meeting he said what's good for Stillwater is good for Oklahoma State University: Oklahoma State president: ?Our Stillwater? is about pride Local News Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x134978549/Oklahoma-State-president-Our-Stillwater-is-about-pride)

I'm sorry, you're just regurgitating what Bartley says. I get it that he somehow thinks that this is quality of life and I was there when he was sworn in and talked about replicating OKC's success w MAPS as the best civic model. I understand what he thinks and I have met with him several times. The problem is that he is wrong and just because he is the mayor of a small town doesn't make him an expert on economic development or city planning. The last mayor Stillwater had certainly wasn't an expert on anything beyond groping cleavage.

In fact, this proposition does nothing for that. This is about the kind of amenity package you'd see on a ballot in Midwest City or Mustang, and I just kind of wish the mayor of Stillwater thought bigger than that, but apparently not. At a certain point, don't you wish that Oklahoma's best college town looked a little more like Lawrence, KS and a little less like a bad marriage between Mustang and MWC?

There is a fire station on SW 19th Avenue that serves western Stillwater. Monroe being completed should dramatically increase response times to the dorms. I still want to know what happens with the existing campus fire station when a new one is built. Wait for it...... tear it down for parking?

Bunty
11-04-2013, 06:17 PM
I'm sorry, you're just regurgitating what Bartley says. I get it that he somehow thinks that this is quality of life and I was there when he was sworn in and talked about replicating OKC's success w MAPS as the best civic model. I understand what he thinks and I have met with him several times. The problem is that he is wrong and just because he is the mayor of a small town doesn't make him an expert on economic development or city planning. The last mayor Stillwater had certainly wasn't an expert on anything beyond groping cleavage.

In fact, this proposition does nothing for that. This is about the kind of amenity package you'd see on a ballot in Midwest City or Mustang, and I just kind of wish the mayor of Stillwater thought bigger than that, but apparently not. At a certain point, don't you wish that Oklahoma's best college town looked a little more like Lawrence, KS and a little less like a bad marriage between Mustang and MWC?

There is a fire station on SW 19th Avenue that serves western Stillwater. Monroe being completed should dramatically increase response times to the dorms. I still want to know what happens with the existing campus fire station when a new one is built. Wait for it...... tear it down for parking?
I tend to agree that Stillwater needs to see bigger, but for what? To build a new community or convention center like Enid recently did? If so, a good site would be at Strickland Park, since there are a lot of hotels and restaurants within easy walking distance. But the land would have to be raised above flash flood level to deal with West Boomer Creek passing nearby. I think a nice convention center would be a good way for Oklahoma City and Tulsa organizations of like mindedness to come together.

People with interests or professions that compliment administering city government need to step and run for city council elections. Perhaps they fear they have too many skeletons in the closet. People who have traveled to see how other cities operate would help, too, while possibly providing some inspiration for change at home.

Spartan
11-04-2013, 06:20 PM
Instead of committing resources to a boardwalk and amphitheater (besides Lake Boomer already has really nice piers that feel like a boardwalk), I would work on a citywide bike path that follows Boomer Creek from downtown Stillwater to Lake Boomer.

Then why don't we finally do a Main Street streetscape? Last year they redid paving on just a few street corners. That's an example of how it has been patched up for decades, and in spite of that downtown has been wildly successful. It could be even more successful if it was positioned for more growth, which it is currently not.

The streetscape plan ought to help make the transition from Main and 7th (the epicenter of downtown) to the new/planned University Avenue extension. Duck needs several revamped pedestrian crossings, I'd even do pedestrian islands. Might as well do all of Duck between HOF and 6th while the time is right.

That's just a few examples of how I would spend the same or less money on making existing Stillwater things even better rather than borrowing plans from Mustang.

Bunty
11-04-2013, 07:01 PM
Instead of committing resources to a boardwalk and amphitheater (besides Lake Boomer already has really nice piers that feel like a boardwalk), I would work on a citywide bike path that follows Boomer Creek from downtown Stillwater to Lake Boomer.

The trails that dead end near Couch Park and Boomer Lake Park have been needed connected for years. This should have been brought up in the proposal.

Bunty
11-07-2013, 09:10 AM
The three propositions were debated for an hour Sat. night: Proposition forum centers on priorities Local News Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x2112916052/Proposition-forum-centers-on-priorities)

Bunty
11-12-2013, 06:43 PM
All three propositions are getting beat big time. The noticeable increase in tax hikes, including making Stillwater having one of the highest sales taxes in the state, and the belief not enough focus was on basic infrastructure were a couple factors working against.

Election Results Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/okelection)

Spartan
11-12-2013, 11:22 PM
I have a feeling voters would have approved the exact same tax increase if it were to be spent on good ideas. Look at OKC.