So who are we getting? I still hope Frys Electronics or another Tech-Brand would put a Big-Box store here like they have in Dallas. Hard to say though, 90,000 sq feet would fit a lot of retailers. It sounds like a suburban big box retailer, meaning we are not going to get a halfway decent grocery store in midtown or downtown, but I could be wrong. Even if we had a Walmart in midtown, I would be all for it, the homeland on 18th/classen is terrible. If I had money I would have bought have bought a block or so west of the midtown area and turned it into a premier grocery store long ago. Land is still dirt cheap and would fill the void of folks from deep deuce, Midtown, and Uptown. The Belle-Isle walmart is pretty much the only option for a good part of the core in regards to food/groceries.

So who are we getting? I still hope Frys Electronics or another Tech-Brand would put a Big-Box store here like they have in Dallas. Hard to say though, 90,000 sq feet would fit a lot of retailers. It sounds like a suburban big box retailer, meaning we are not going to get a halfway decent grocery store in midtown or downtown, but I could be wrong. Even if we had a Walmart in midtown, I would be all for it, the homeland on 18th/classen is terrible. If I had money I would have bought have bought a block or so west of the midtown area and turned it into a premier grocery store long ago. Land is still dirt cheap and would fill the void of folks from deep deuce, Midtown, and Uptown. The Belle-Isle walmart is pretty much the only option for a good part of the core in regards to food/groceries.

Be careful what you wish for. We may get a Wal-Mart Supercenter on the new Boulevard that looks just like the Belle Isle one. It may be convenient but it would ruin the core's chance of ever getting the kind of retail most want downtown.

I agree though about having another tech store. Best Buy is all that's left in OKC. Their competitors CompUSA, Circuit City, PC Club, and Ultimate Electronics all fell one by one.

Be careful what you wish for. We may get a Wal-Mart Supercenter on the new Boulevard that looks just like the Belle Isle one. It may be convenient but it would ruin the core's chance of ever getting the kind of retail most want downtown.

I agree though about having another tech store. Best Buy is all that's left in OKC. Their competitors CompUSA, Circuit City, PC Club, and Ultimate Electronics all fell one by one.

Unless you count Conn's who sometimes have good sales. Staples, who has aggressive retail pricing for technology, and even Office Depot and OfficeMax can sometimes beat Best Buy prices on any given weekend. I use this site to compare (http://www.salescircular.com/ok.shtml)...all the sales circulars stripped down to the place, model and price...on all kinds of items.

Unless you count Conn's who sometimes have good sales. Staples, who has aggressive retail pricing for technology, and even Office Depot and OfficeMax can sometimes beat Best Buy prices on any given weekend. I use this site to compare (http://www.salescircular.com/ok.shtml)...all the sales circulars stripped down to the place, model and price...on all kinds of items.

Oh yeah I forgot about Conn's. I've only been in there once and was followed around by the sales people the entire time. It seemed like a pretty cool store though.

Yeah Staples/Office Depot are great stores for low-end technology.

Oh yeah I forgot about Conn's. I've only been in there once and was followed around by the sales people the entire time. It seemed like a pretty cool store though.

Yeah Staples/Office Depot are great stores for low-end technology.

I like Staples for their pricing on peripheral items like external hard drives, monitors, cables, printers...they can almost always beat Best Buy with use of their frequent coupons.

In Austin we pretty much only bought appliances at Conn's. They just seem to have an odd product mix.

I know that I got spoiled with Fry's in Austin, Micro Center is an acceptable substitute but I still wish we have Fry's here in Denver.

Conn's reminds me very much of HHGregg on the east coast.

Conn's reminds me very much of HHGregg on the east coast.
I hadn't thought about that but it really does. Conn's is out of Beaumont, Texas so they are all over Texas.

So, we still have no idea in regards to Pete's original question?

Actually talking about Walmart and the idea that it might keep other grocers out of OKC is on topic.

Not quite, you might want to check this thread out if you want to talking about Walmart keeping other grocers out of OKC.

http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/34446-quality-grocery-stores-okc-3.html#post672375

Not quite, you might want to check this thread out if you want to talking about Walmart keeping other grocers out of OKC.

http://www.okctalk.com/ask-anything-about-okc/34446-quality-grocery-stores-okc-3.html#post672375

I'm well aware of that thread. It doesn't change my point in the least.

Soooooo do we know which retail is coming in?

Pete...does "West Coast Retailer" mean what you are hearing would be only WA, OR, and CA based chains looking for 90,000 sq. feet space? Or could that also mean a chain with a large West Coast presence with a headquarters in a neighboring state?

I would love to have an REI. I find that the employees there tend to have a lot more knowledge than the staff at Academy. They also tend to have a lot more camping, survival gear which I really like. We have Academy, Bass Pro, and Dick's which I sort of put in that category, but really REI is off on it's own. I think with the watersports we have here, we can support an REI. I imagine we get one sooner rather than later, regardless if this is their attempt to come.

We all have retailers that we wish for. I think at this point trying to guess is like shooting into the wind. As soon as there is something more to go on than a "west coast retailer" then some educated guesses can be made.

What is the word on this????

I would love to have an REI. I find that the employees there tend to have a lot more knowledge than the staff at Academy. They also tend to have a lot more camping, survival gear which I really like. We have Academy, Bass Pro, and Dick's which I sort of put in that category, but really REI is off on it's own. I think with the watersports we have here, we can support an REI. I imagine we get one sooner rather than later, regardless if this is their attempt to come.
I wish we had Academy up here to go along with the other sporting goods retailers we have (Sports Authority which is based here, Dick's, Big 5, REI, Bass Pro, Gander Mountain and soon to open Cabela's), for some things it is just hard to beat Academy.

I wish we had Academy up here to go along with the other sporting goods retailers we have (Sports Authority which is based here, Dick's, Big 5, REI, Bass Pro, Gander Mountain and soon to open Cabela's), for some things it is just hard to beat Academy.

Very true. I'd like us to get a Cabela's, but really I think REI would be a better fit.

Very true. I'd like us to get a Cabela's, but really I think REI would be a better fit.

Not saying that REI isn't looking at OKC, but I'm fairly sure they aren't the "mystery retailer" that Pete mentioned at the start of this thread. The newest REI stores that are being opened are less than 30,000 sq. ft...no where near the 90,000 sq. ft. space being scouted.

I've heard the possible "West Coast" retailer scouting space that size in OKC and Tulsa is a grocery store chain (not Safeway). I'll post more info as soon as I get better confirmation.

Not saying that REI isn't looking at OKC, but I'm fairly sure they aren't the "mystery retailer" that Pete mentioned at the start of this thread. The newest REI stores that are being opened are less than 30,000 sq. ft...no where near the 90,000 sq. ft. space being scouted.

I've heard the possible "West Coast" retailer scouting space that size in OKC and Tulsa is a grocery store chain (not Safeway). I'll post more info as soon as I get better confirmation.

Is 90,000 sq feet to large for a Trader Joe's?

Is 90,000 sq feet to large for a Trader Joe's?

According to Pete, 90,000 Sq. ft. is "way to big" for a Trader Joe's.

According to Pete, 90,000 Sq. ft. is "way to big" for a Trader Joe's.

I have no idea what to guess then. If its a grocery chain from the west coast but not Safeway or Trader Joe's, what else could it be?

I know the real estate person that is showing them properties. He will not say who it is. I know him pretty well and he will not say anything until it is a done deal. He has said the same things as Pete. 90000sf in okc and Tulsa. I will ask him again this week how it went.

Are choosing between Tulsa and OKC or going in both markets?

Now I'm really curious. I am starting to think maybe its Costco, coming into Oklahoma with slightly smaller stores. We'll see though.

I hope Costco doesn't downsize their stores.

I got the impression from him that they are looking at both markets. I asked him if it was Costco and he said no, but then again he would not say who it was so it could be. It has been a couple of weeks so I will ask him again.

Whoever it is, Tulsa will get the better store...Bass Pro for example...I hope it is REI

I think it is too big to be REI. I could be wrong though.

I have no idea what to guess then. If its a grocery chain from the west coast but not Safeway or Trader Joe's, what else could it be?

Trader Joe's is opening a new store in Boca Raton, FL right at 12,500 sq. ft. Again, it's not them scouting space that large.

I posed an earlier question for Pete and await a response from him. I believe the retailer scouting the spaces in OKC and Tulsa is quite possibly a grocery store chain with a large West Coast presence, but is not headquartered on the West Coast. I was actually in California last week at one of these stores. They are in a rapid eastward expansion mode, and their stores are typically 90,000 to 92,000 Sq. Ft. in size. They also have shown the proclivity to lease existing space in big box centers as opposed to building new stores in some cases. If I'm correct, this retailer could really be a real competitor and low price alternative to Wal-Mart in this market. (I know that won't be good news to the crowd who loves the trendy grocery chains with the high prices.) I'm still looking into getting more solid and substantive info on this. But don't rule out Costco either...

Is it a possibility it's someone who wants other retail on either (or one) side to help pay the mortgage and that's where the 90,000 SF comes into play? Kind of like a person who buys a duplex, lives in one side, and the other pays the mortgage on the duplex? That would open up a lot of other possibilities as to who the mystery retailer is. I don't know and really just typing out loud.

Sav-A-Lot maybe? They came into Little Rock a few years ago and have done a pretty good job competing on the bottom end. Anything that puts a dent in Wal-Mart's dominance is a good thing in my opinion. A lower Wal-Mart marketshare may pave the way for an eventual entrance of a quality, middle of the road grocery chain currently lacking in this market.

We all have retailers that we wish for. I think at this point trying to guess is like shooting into the wind. As soon as there is something more to go on than a "west coast retailer" then some educated guesses can be made.

No, the rules of a message board is that you speculate, speculate and then speculate some more.

Is it a possibility it's someone who wants other retail on either (or one) side to help pay the mortgage and that's where the 90,000 SF comes into play? Kind of like a person who buys a duplex, lives in one side, and the other pays the mortgage on the duplex? That would open up a lot of other possibilities as to who the mystery retailer is. I don't know and really just typing out loud.

Retailers arent in the business of being landlords. And they generally arent in a position where they need to offset costs by building additional space to rent. The local 7-11 chains may do this but a big box, national retailer wont.

Piecing together various bits of information (as only we can do here on OKCTalk!) I've got a new name that seems to fit the profile, i.e. a West Coast retailer looking for approximately 90,000 sq. ft. in OKC and Tulsa -- and one that has been keeping a very tight lid on their plans.

WinCo Foods is based in Boise, ID and has been on an aggressive expansion bent. They have just opened a ton of new locations in California and are getting ready to open two locations in the DFW area, with more to come.

Typical store size is right around 90,000 sf and their expansion pattern is to go into a new area, set up a new distribution center, then expand rapidly around it. Although no new distribution facility has been announced for OK/TX, it seems very likely one is on the way. And if it is, that would put OKC right in it's range.'

Also, I'm hearing they have their sights set on OK, CO & NM in addition to North Texas.


Unfortunately, they are yet another deep discount, warehouse grocer. However, they seem like an excellent operator and are very popular where they open.

They are certainly not afraid to go head-to-head with Walmart. They are employee-owned, so a very different model than WM.


WinCo Foods (http://www.wincofoods.com/)

WinCo Foods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinCo_Foods)

6b3xza2cZaM

Should complete well against Sam's. Like I've said, this isn't the kind of grocery store OKC needs but its still great nonetheless because it will give Wal-Mart some much needed competition. Wal-Mart may now be forced to step up their game and start offering the service and selection they do in other markets.

I can really see them snatching up abandoned Homeland and Buy for Less locations.

Piecing together various bits of information (as only we can do here on OKCTalk!) I've got a new name that seems to fit the profile, i.e. a West Coast retailer looking for approximately 90,000 sq. ft. in OKC and Tulsa -- and one that has been keeping a very tight lid on their plans.

WinCo Foods is based in Boise, ID and has been on an aggressive expansion bent. They have just opened a ton of new locations in California and are getting ready to open two locations in the DFW area, with more to come.

Typical store size is right around 90,000 sf and their expansion pattern is to go into a new area, set up a new distribution center, then expand rapidly around it. Although no new distribution facility has been announced for OK/TX, it seems very likely one is on the way. And if it is, that would put OKC right in it's range.'

Also, I'm hearing they have their sights set on OK, CO & NM in addition to North Texas.


Unfortunately, they are yet another deep discount, warehouse grocer. However, they seem like an excellent operator and are very popular where they open.

They are certainly not afraid to go head-to-head with Walmart. They are employee-owned, so a very different model than WM.


WinCo Foods (http://www.wincofoods.com/)

WinCo Foods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinCo_Foods)

6b3xza2cZaM

Thanks Pete. I still haven't got any solid confirmation on this just yet, but I think WinCo is definitely the retailer looking at OKC and Tulsa. I also received a PM from another member who guessed WinCo as well. While they are a Warehouse deep discounter, the stores are really nice and literally blow away Wal Mart. You wont get a Sams or Costco feel in these stores. They are very clean and organized, and their produce is excellent. Plus, you are not forced to buy in bulk.

I'll post any new info I can get.

Is 90,000 sq feet to large for a Trader Joe's?
Both the Boulder and Denver stores are around 14,000 sf, the Denver location will have a 3,740 sf wine shop (their only license in the state). They announced a new store yesterday in Greenwood Village (South Metro).

7News - Construction begins at future site of Trader Joe's in Denver; store to open by year's end (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/front-range/denver/construction-begins-at-future-site-of-trader-joes-in-denver-store-to-open-by-years-end)
Denver Business Journal - Goodbye, Applebee's; hello, Trader Joe's (http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/morning_call/2013/05/goodbye-applebees-hello-trader-joes.html)

In the Wiki on WinCo is said they operated stores as Cub Foods until 1999, Cub Foods used to be in the Denver market back in the 90's, so I guess they are familiar with this market. Seems the original Cub is part of the SuperValu group that acquired Alberston's and then spun them off to Cerebrus this year.

If this is true, it is an enormous disappointment. Yet another "no frills" lowest price store. Seriously, how many low budget options do we need in the metro? I went to one of these stores in Boise, Idaho this year. It was awful. Please, can't we just get another Whole Foods or two? I'm giving up on anything else...

If this is true, it is an enormous disappointment. Yet another "no frills" lowest price store. Seriously, how many low budget options do we need in the metro? I went to one of these stores in Boise, Idaho this year. It was awful. Please, can't we just get another Whole Foods or two? I'm giving up on anything else...

I am with you on this. If you've lived in OKC you're entire life I can see being satisfied with the options here, but if you've lived anywhere else it can be quite an adjustment. There is enough upper-middle and upper-income areas in OKC to support higher-end options. On the bright side, this is likely to give Wal-Mart some serious competition. If it is indeed Wal-Mart that is keeping better grocers out, then anything that can cut their marketshare is a good thing. The OKC grocery scene didn't get to the state that its in overnight so I think its unreasonable to expect a Kroger or an H-E-B to come in overnight and save the day.

Both the Boulder and Denver stores are around 14,000 sf, the Denver location will have a 3,740 sf wine shop (their only license in the state). They announced a new store yesterday in Greenwood Village (South Metro).

7News - Construction begins at future site of Trader Joe's in Denver; store to open by year's end (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/front-range/denver/construction-begins-at-future-site-of-trader-joes-in-denver-store-to-open-by-years-end)
Denver Business Journal - Goodbye, Applebee's; hello, Trader Joe's (http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/morning_call/2013/05/goodbye-applebees-hello-trader-joes.html)
they are familiar with this market. Seems the original Cub is part of the SuperValu group that acquired Alberston's and then spun them off to Cerebrus this year.


The new Greenwood Village store is to be about 10,000 SF while the Dallas store will be about 18,000 but will also include the wine/liquor store.

I am with you on this. If you've lived in OKC you're entire life I can see being satisfied with the options here, but if you've lived anywhere else it can be quite an adjustment. There is enough upper-middle and upper-income areas in OKC to support higher-end options. On the bright side, this is likely to give Wal-Mart some serious competition. If it is indeed Wal-Mart that is keeping better grocers out, then anything that can cut their marketshare is a good thing. The OKC grocery scene didn't get to the state that its in overnight so I think its unreasonable to expect a Kroger or an H-E-B to come in overnight and save the day.

Ugh no kidding. Where's my knight and shining armor. Trader Joes? Kroger? HEB, Central Market, helllllloooo??? This is a major quality of life thing that is lacking for me in OKC. I'd be far more satisfied with the city.

I'm with you guys, I just don't lose the sleep over it that you fellas do. When they eventually allow wine and full strength beer in stores, then you'll see a push from outsiders.

I'm with you guys, I just don't lose the sleep over it that you fellas do. When they eventually allow wine and full strength beer in stores, then you'll see a push from outsiders.

I still haven't given up hope that someday Costco might come to the OKC area.

I still haven't given up hope that someday Costco might come to the OKC area.

Costco is definitely looking at OKC; I think they'll be here in the next few years.

WinCo: Low-Key, Low-Cost Grocer Called 'Wal-Mart's Worst Nightmare' | TIME.com (http://business.time.com/2013/08/07/meet-the-low-key-low-cost-grocery-chain-being-called-wal-marts-worst-nightmare/)

This sounds just like what OKC needs. [/sarc]

Just when you thought people would set their sights a little higher than Walmart - they set them lower.

I have no interest in either.

complain all you want, but you're looking at a company who offers low prices and treats their people right, what's not to like?

oh, unless you're so hoity toity that you just shop at Whole Foods and Farmers Markets all in the name of hipsterness.

get over yourselves. if this store is near me, we'll probably shop there for most items.

The new Reasors stores in the Tulsa area are very nice, similar to Kroger and HEB. I'm surprised they haven't expanded into the OKC market.

Looks like a nice place. However, as new competition enters the market it will likely mean local competitors will close. Oklahoma City is a growing city however, there is not enough people here to keep ten chains and local mom and pop operations in business especially at time when more and more people are skipping the grocery store and going the take out or fast food route.

Say what you want about Crest (which is is getting better by the day), Homeland and Buy For Less. At the end of the day your money is going right back into the local economy. Winco is out of Boise, Idaho and ultimately your money would be leaving the state.

Employee owned is not always what it's cracked up to be. Often to see the benefit of employee owned you have to work their several years. Most people working in grocery stores are only their until something better comes along.

If your not happy with the local options, start communicating with the local companies and befriend the management teams at your local stores. You would be surprised how quick things will change. I know Crest and some Homeland locations love feedback. Crest will special order items and add services if enough people show interest. Crest happens to be my favorite because everybody is so friendly and the staff appears to get along like a big happy family. My favorite thing about Crest is that everybody is expected step up when the store gets busy. Stock people double as cashiers and baggers not to mention everybody knows where everything is located.

So is it going to be Winco or is this just speculation?

The new Reasors stores in the Tulsa area are very nice, similar to Kroger and HEB. I'm surprised they haven't expanded into the OKC market.

Reasor's are nice, but Wal-Mart has an over 60% marketshare in OKC. Its very risky for a new grocer to enter a market in that environment. Winco doesn't look like the kind of grocer most here have been asking for, but its a step in the right direction because it will challenge Wal-Mart's dominance. The Wal-Mart crowd isn't going to leave Wal-Mart for a trendy supermarket. There is talk of Reasor's opening in Edmond but the NIMBY's are fighting it so I will believe it when I see it. In my opinion, the lack of good grocery options in OKC is a pretty big problem for the city but its also one that's unlikely to change any time soon.



Looks like a nice place. However, as new competition enters the market it will likely mean local competitors will close. Oklahoma City is a growing city however, there is not enough people here to keep ten chains and local mom and pop operations in business especially at time when more and more people are skipping the grocery store and going the take out or fast food route.

Say what you want about Crest (which is is getting better by the day), Homeland and Buy For Less. At the end of the day your money is going right back into the local economy. Winco is out of Boise, Idaho and ultimately your money would be leaving the state.

Employee owned is not always what it's cracked up to be. Often to see the benefit of employee owned you have to work their several years. Most people working in grocery stores are only their until something better comes along.

If your not happy with the local options, start communicating with the local companies and befriend the management teams at your local stores. You would be surprised how quick things will change. I know Crest and some Homeland locations love feedback. Crest will special order items and add services if enough people show interest. Crest happens to be my favorite because everybody is so friendly and the staff appears to get along like a big happy family. My favorite thing about Crest is that everybody is expected step up when the store gets busy. Stock people double as cashiers and baggers not to mention everybody knows where everything is located.

I think WinCo will take more out of Wal-Mart's marketshare than they will out of Crest, Homeland, or Buy for Less. OKC is so saturated with Wal-Marts that for most people it's the closest and most convenient options, so people who support places like Crest or Buy For Less do it for other reasons.

complain all you want, but you're looking at a company who offers low prices and treats their people right, what's not to like?

oh, unless you're so hoity toity that you just shop at Whole Foods and Farmers Markets all in the name of hipsterness.

get over yourselves. if this store is near me, we'll probably shop there for most items.

Agree. And if you're needing something so much better than Walmart because of principal or are so concerned with vaguely-defined high quality, you probably can afford to drive to the ONE store that fits your ideal. In fact, imagine the networking you can do as you (properly coiffed-up and dressed to the nines) promenade around the ideal store that is so-not-Walmart (or WinCo), perhaps even buying something.
As for me, I'll continue to patronize Walmart for those things they sell at a better price, Crest for my regular grocery needs on my way home, and specialty stores for other particular needs (wants).

So our grocery market is going even more downscale?

So our grocery market is going even more downscale?

It's difficult to get any worse than it already is, but this could go one of two ways. WinCo could come in and really eat away at Wal-Marts marketshare, in turn making the market more attractive to better grocers. Or, they could come in and hurt Homeland, Crest, and Buy For Less moreso than Wal-Mart, maybe forcing one of them out which would make our market much worse (if that's possible) than it already is. I think the first option is more likely as WinCo's target customer is the same as Wal-Mart, the concerned with the lowest price and nothing else.

So our grocery market is going even more downscale?

Unfortunately that's the way it needs to go first. Someone is going to have to break up Wal marts dominance. The only way to do that in this market is to be price competitive. the only way to beat Wal Matt on price is to be similar.

It would be much easier for Whole Foods or other decent grocers to open up here after Wal Mart's market share has been diluted.

I wouldn't open a medium to high-quality grocery store in this market with WM's 60% market share. But I would if it were 40%. Even if there was more competition, I could focus on pushing WinCo out and not trying to push Wal Mart out.

Divide and conquer.

Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

I thought I saw an article just his last week that ALDI is looking to put in a few more stores in the OKC metro area. They are owned by the same German family that owns Trader Joes. Hopefully wont keep them from putting in a Trader Joes. There is an ALDI on 19th street in Moore now. Here is an article about them. (It was linked to previous article posted about winco)

Trader Joe's and Aldi: German-Owned Sister Supermarkets Setting Trends | TIME.com (http://business.time.com/2013/07/29/how-two-german-owned-sister-supermarket-brands-became-hot-trendsetters-in-the-u-s/)

I thought I saw an article just his last week that ALDI is looking to put in a few more stores in the OKC metro area. They are owned by the same German family that owns Trader Joes. Hopefully wont keep them from putting in a Trader Joes. There is an ALDI on 19th street in Moore now. Here is an article about them. (It was linked to previous article posted about winco)

Trader Joe's and Aldi: German-Owned Sister Supermarkets Setting Trends | TIME.com (http://business.time.com/2013/07/29/how-two-german-owned-sister-supermarket-brands-became-hot-trendsetters-in-the-u-s/)

Aldi is at a level well below even Wal-Mart, nothing at all to get excited about. Small towns with a population of less than 10,000 have had them for years. Having them won't keep Trader Joe's out, they appeal to entirely different markets even though run by the same company.


Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

I agree, but Wal-Mart has killed retail in this city at all levels. OKC has the retail selection of a small town thanks to the big boys in Bentonville. Diluting Wal-Mart's marketshare will make the market more attractive and that is really what this city needs. For grocery, with a 60% Wal-Mart marketshare, no H-E-B or Kroger is going to set foot here.