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Urbanized
07-19-2013, 08:24 AM
I'm not a fan of making up districts for everything. I think it probably fits better with AA.
Agreed. And not only does it fit better, it is already within the LONGSTANDING boundaries of the Automobile Alley district, which is NOT limited to Broadway. Actually, 9th Street and even what is being called the Flatiron District are BOTH within the boundaries of the Automobile Alley district, for the purposes of the BID, design review, etc. it's not even up for debate.

PhiAlpha
07-19-2013, 08:26 AM
FYI: The Metropolitan - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=The+Metropolitan)

Pete
07-19-2013, 08:28 AM
It's in Auto Alley.

This map (in our Reference and Summary forum) shows the boundaries most commonly used.

The recent Midtown Plan did include AA as well; at the very least you could consider it a specific sub-set of Midtown, which otherwise is pretty massive on it's own.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/summary-reference-articles/3900d1372621440-map-urban-districts-okcdistricts3.jpg

PhiAlpha
07-19-2013, 08:32 AM
I'm all for a hybrid name... how about Deuce Alley... I kid, I think Auto Alley is a good district to lump it into. Not a lot of residential in that area so this could be a good way to start marketing a that aspect of AA.

On a side note, not in any way minimizing this announcement because it is awesome, but it's pretty cool that downtown residential announcements have become almost commonplace over the last year or so. We have to be averaging something close to one announcement a month. Who would've thought that was possible a few years ago?

BDP
07-19-2013, 08:37 AM
Anyone know Bomasada's track record for completing developments as proposed?

BDP
07-19-2013, 08:46 AM
paywall is always turned off if you read via cell phone ..

And you can read via desktop using the mobile subdomain, as well:

The Metropolitan will be largest single-housing project in downtown OKC | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/the-metropolitan-will-be-largest-single-housing-project-in-downtown-okc/article/3863714)

BDP
07-19-2013, 08:47 AM
Just FYI, full article is available via mobile subdomain:

The Metropolitan will be largest single-housing project in downtown OKC | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/the-metropolitan-will-be-largest-single-housing-project-in-downtown-okc/article/3863714)

Spartan
07-19-2013, 10:42 AM
Wow this development is financed, no TIF needed, ready to go. The boom is back.


The "NON" paywall rears its ugly head. Guess I'll have to sweat it out a couple more days to get the deets.

That's one reason why I feel this site has a public information responsibility to scoop and dissimenate info as freely as we should choose regardless of the Oklahoman

G.Walker
07-19-2013, 11:36 AM
Drove by Block 42 on my lunch, and looks like this project will use some of the same materials for facade, dark brick, gray aluminum/steel siding, if so, it will look pretty good exiting of S I-235 on Harrison Ave.

Spartan
07-19-2013, 03:56 PM
I am still fixated on the no TIF thing... Anyone else find that interesting?

soonerguru
07-20-2013, 01:57 PM
I am still fixated on the no TIF thing... Anyone else find that interesting?

It's great. Let's use the TIF for complicated projects, such as historical rehabs (like the Osler). Basically, it boils down to this: this company is liquid and they know they're going to make money on this project, and they don't want to wait around to start making some money, so they're ready to go. No TIF needed. They did need the assurance of a quiet zone, however, so you could argue that while they did not take TIF money they did benefit from OKC investment on the quiet zone.

The TIF is still a great tool for OKC.

Teo9969
07-20-2013, 05:46 PM
I honestly cannot see any way this ends in anything other than an explosion of investment in the 6th/Broadway/10th/235 block. The night-life in this district ought to become the best in OKC almost overnight.

If I were Steve Mason, I'd start finding a Restauranteur or some people who have some successful bars. With Iguana/S&B/Hillbilly's/Peloton already in the immediate area, no reason that more don't pop up in that area. It is the best area for OKC to have anything remotely similar to Austin's 6th St. (obviously it wouldn't be quite the same scale, and it would be a little more spread out).

Pete
07-20-2013, 05:52 PM
8th or really any area along the tracks would be the perfect place for a true bar district, as you don't have any real residential areas to worry about; or schools or churches for that matter.

Imagine 9th street X 10.

We seem to have tons of restaurants and not nearly enough BARS. I don't get it... McNellie's has been a smash success.

Spartan
07-20-2013, 07:39 PM
I'll second the shortage of BARS. OKC's bar scene is timid.

dankrutka
07-20-2013, 09:22 PM
More than just a lack of bars, the problem is a lack of concentrated bars. OKC has always lagged far behind other cities in local, urban bar districts.

Spartan
07-20-2013, 09:26 PM
More than just a lack of bars, the problem is a lack of concentrated bars. OKC has always lagged far behind other cities in local, urban bar districts.

We need to pick a street to close off at night.

Urban Pioneer
07-20-2013, 11:37 PM
An investment in pedestrian connectivity is seriously going to need to be considered to make it an easier wslk to Auto Alley. Right now, it reminds me of Joe Carter/Russell Perry and First Street. No sidewalks, broken asphalt, and ill designed/worn railroad crossings.

Twisted many an ankle walking back to our studio from The Spy at night.

OKCisOK4me
07-21-2013, 11:18 AM
BNSF has put in all new concrete crossings on the streets that weren't closed down as part of the future quiet zone updates. No concrete pads for sidewalks though...gotta use the street.

Spartan
07-21-2013, 11:41 AM
An investment in pedestrian connectivity is seriously going to need to be considered to make it an easier wslk to Auto Alley. Right now, it reminds me of Joe Carter/Russell Perry and First Street. No sidewalks, broken asphalt, and ill designed/worn railroad crossings.

Twisted many an ankle walking back to our studio from The Spy at night.

That's why the TIF thing surprises me. Similarly to the Maywood Park projects, a TIF should be used for comprehensive streetscape upgrades for this whole area.

CurtisJ
07-21-2013, 11:21 PM
deleted

bombermwc
07-22-2013, 06:46 AM
But why should the development be responsible for the scapes? If they don't want to mess with TIF funding and have that baggage, more power to them. The next step is to convince the city to make the changes. If the city wants to do something (ie a TIF district), then let the city do it.

It's not really fair to expect a TIF district any time a development comes along. When it's something as massive as Devon, that sort of influence in construction and taxes speaks. The smaller ones like this (even though it's not exactlly small), can't be expected to play the same ballgame.

Just the facts
07-22-2013, 06:57 AM
The TIF district already exists. This development is choosing not to tap any of those funds to assist with building it. However, the main purpose of a TIF district is to use tax dollars generated in the TIF to fix the public infrastructure in the TIF. The City needs to fix the sidewalks in that area.

edcrunk
07-22-2013, 07:39 AM
I honestly cannot see any way this ends in anything other than an explosion of investment in the 6th/Broadway/10th/235 block. The night-life in this district ought to become the best in OKC almost overnight.

If I were Steve Mason, I'd start finding a Restauranteur or some people who have some successful bars. With Iguana/S&B/Hillbilly's/Peloton already in the immediate area, no reason that more don't pop up in that area. It is the best area for OKC to have anything remotely similar to Austin's 6th St. (obviously it wouldn't be quite the same scale, and it would be a little more spread out).

I like the old java dave's building on 9th, but couldn't find a number to call... I'm wanting to open something soon.

metro
07-22-2013, 12:36 PM
So would this project be considered in Deep Deuce or AA?

Neither, it's the Flatiron district.

BoulderSooner
07-22-2013, 12:43 PM
Neither, it's the Flatiron district.

officially it is in AA

Urbanized
07-22-2013, 12:44 PM
No, it is Automobile Alley. What is commonly called the Flatiron District is technically a part of Automobile Alley for BID and other purposes anyway, but even if you consider Flatiron its own district, the northern boundary is 6th Street.

Urbanized
07-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Boulder beat me to it.

warreng88
07-23-2013, 01:13 PM
One area that I think will be really great due to The Metropolitan is Sixth street on either side of the railroad tracks. There is so much potential in those cool older buildings for restaurants shops with office space or apartments above. Callin Steve Mason! I found your next development!

Pete
09-13-2013, 10:40 AM
Some new renderings and site plans:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan5.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan7.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan8.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan9.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan10.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metropolitan11.jpg

Urbanized
09-13-2013, 10:41 AM
Man, that is quite large. Exciting. Is that a video wall of some sort, shown in the rendering with a screen cap of a Flaming Lips video? What would that be for?

Edit: oh, on closer review of the plans, it appears to be a billboard visible to southbound traffic on I-235. Is that an existing one (seem to recall one being located there), or a newly-proposed one?

AP
09-13-2013, 10:42 AM
Man, this is going to be really cool.

dankrutka
09-13-2013, 10:49 AM
This project has not created the buzz it deserves and that probably speaks to how much is happening in the core. Fantastic project.

soonerguru
09-13-2013, 10:54 AM
You gotta love the architect slipping Wayne Coyne into the rendering.

Love the way the complex interacts with the sidewalk and street; this is the kind of pedestrian-friendly urban design we've all been pining for but for some reason rarely get from local developers, who just don't seem to understand how to pull this off.

Great design, IMO. What a shocking change our city is in for in the next two or three years. The downtown we've envisioned where one can live, work and play is already here, but is going to be dramatically improved in the coming years. Exciting times for OKC.

To urbanized's point, this is just massive. How many units will this have? It looks like it could hold about a thousand residents.

Teo9969
09-13-2013, 11:05 AM
wiki says 330 units.

circuitboard
09-13-2013, 11:15 AM
This will be OKC's first real "big city" apartment complex in my opinion.

BoulderSooner
09-13-2013, 11:49 AM
This will be OKC's first real "big city" apartment complex in my opinion.

the edge will beat it to market

Pete
09-13-2013, 11:56 AM
This will be OKC's first real "big city" apartment complex in my opinion.

IMO Level already fits that description.

The Edge, Metropolitan and Steel Yard -- perhaps even Maywood I & II -- will be very similar.

dankrutka
09-13-2013, 12:04 PM
It will be interesting to see how places like Deep Deuce Apartments do with much more competition. I've heard for years that the apartments are run poorly, but they've been able to get away with it because there weren't a lot of other options. That isn't/won't be the case anymore. Of course, demand may stay high if the area continues to improve...

Pete
09-13-2013, 12:12 PM
DD Apartments are in the process of getting significant interior upgrades (granite,etc.) and also are generally much larger units than those in the newer complexes.

HangryHippo
09-13-2013, 12:25 PM
DD Apartments are in the process of getting significant interior upgrades (granite,etc.) and also are generally much larger units than those in the newer complexes.

Didn't Sid say the "upgrades" were quite the disappointment? My apologies Sid if I've attributed that sentiment to you in error.

BoulderSooner
09-13-2013, 12:54 PM
Didn't Sid say the "upgrades" were quite the disappointment? My apologies Sid if I've attributed that sentiment to you in error.

the other thought is that if somewhere like Deep deuce as some point no longer has enough demand as rental property .. they could sell them off as condos ..

BDP
09-13-2013, 12:55 PM
It will be interesting to see how places like Deep Deuce Apartments do with much more competition. I've heard for years that the apartments are run poorly, but they've been able to get away with it because there weren't a lot of other options. That isn't/won't be the case anymore. Of course, demand may stay high if the area continues to improve...

Hopefully they keep pace. One thing I do like about them is they were built in such a way that it feels more neighboodish than mega apartment complexish. The Edge and Level are kind of part of the neighborhood. DD apartments, with its foliage and set back sidewalks kind of feels like its own neighborhood. It feels more organic than it should, imo.

Teo9969
09-13-2013, 01:14 PM
the other thought is that if somewhere like Deep deuce as some point no longer has enough demand as rental property .. they could sell them off as condos ..

I've not been in the DD apts, but it does seem to me that that is a realistic and reasonable possibility given the way they were constructed. The same will not be true of Level at any point in the future based on the construction.

BoulderSooner
09-13-2013, 01:22 PM
I've not been in the DD apts, but it does seem to me that that is a realistic and reasonable possibility given the way they were constructed. The same will not be true of Level at any point in the future based on the construction.

not that it matters for a long time (regarding level) but why do say that?

Teo9969
09-13-2013, 01:46 PM
not that it matters for a long time (regarding level) but why do say that?

Because I imagine it to be very difficult to effectively divide level into coherent large residences. Connecting the different floors together would prove challenging if you wanted to do a multi-story residence. Providing the privacy different type of privacy you would expect of a residence would also seem to be difficult given the entrances to many of the units.

"never" was probably a little bit over the top...you could change nothing and just sell the units as they are now...I just think we're so far away from that being desirable in the OKC market that never feels about right.

Spartan
09-15-2013, 10:49 PM
It will be interesting to see how places like Deep Deuce Apartments do with much more competition. I've heard for years that the apartments are run poorly, but they've been able to get away with it because there weren't a lot of other options. That isn't/won't be the case anymore. Of course, demand may stay high if the area continues to improve...

Aside from the further posts to the contrary, it really doesn't matter because this is how urban real estate economics work. We need to stop expecting new supply to be quasi affordable and just let the market age and allow supply to evolve.

betts
09-16-2013, 12:40 AM
Because I imagine it to be very difficult to effectively divide level into coherent large residences. Connecting the different floors together would prove challenging if you wanted to do a multi-story residence. Providing the privacy different type of privacy you would expect of a residence would also seem to be difficult given the entrances to many of the units.

"never" was probably a little bit over the top...you could change nothing and just sell the units as they are now...I just think we're so far away from that being desirable in the OKC market that never feels about right.

In many cities, people buy apartments the size of those in Deep Deuce. If people want bigger, then they either creatively figure out how to combine apartments or they spend more per square foot at the Hill or the brownstones. If I were the owner, I'd condominiumize one building and see how it goes, rather than putting the entire complex up as for sale units. I think this whole love affair with rentals was created by the terrible economy and people's attitudes towards living downtown, which is changing. In addition, you've got people continually getting older and those who are used to living downtown when young might want to stay. I suspect at a lower price point than other for sale housing, condos at Deep Deuce would sell rapidly.

Teo9969
09-16-2013, 12:56 AM
In many cities, people buy apartments the size of those in Deep Deuce. If people want bigger, then they either creatively figure out how to combine apartments or they spend more per square foot at the Hill or the brownstones. If I were the owner, I'd condominiumize one building and see how it goes, rather than putting the entire complex up as for sale units. I think this whole love affair with rentals was created by the terrible economy and people's attitudes towards living downtown, which is changing. In addition, you've got people continually getting older and those who are used to living downtown when young might want to stay. I suspect at a lower price point than other for sale housing, condos at Deep Deuce would sell rapidly.

The problem I imagine with LEVEL being turned into for purchase, is that the demand won't exist because it will be difficult for them to offer the things a buyer downtown will want compared to other areas downtown.

As for the DDApts being turned into Condos, I think the gradual pace of that will only be natural as there will be people in leases for various amounts of time and varying vacancy rates. I wouldn't foresee just an overnight switch to Condos.

warreng88
09-16-2013, 08:54 AM
Is this all going to be built at once or in stages like The Steelyard? Do we know what the rents will be like or maybe what they have been like with some of Bomasada other developments?

Pete
09-16-2013, 09:01 AM
I am quite sure this will all be built at once, not in phases.

Praedura
09-16-2013, 09:29 AM
Phase 1: Building is constructed.
Phase 2: People move in.
Phase 3: Rainbows sprout and unicorns merrily prance down the street.

:)

Anonymous.
10-07-2013, 01:28 PM
Can't believe this project is only 3 months away. Very excited.

This thread deserves to be on page 1. lol

Pete
10-07-2013, 01:41 PM
Yep -- game changer and will really help Auto Alley and start to build a bridge into Deep Deuce as well.

There are just a bunch of rather large housing developments underway or getting ready to start: The Edge, Metropolitan, Maywood I & II, Mosaic, Steel Yard (E. Bricktown) and Mideke.

Hearing there will be another big one on 10th between Fassler Hall / Dust Bowl and Hadden Hall, and also St. Anthony seems to be working on a large residential development for some of the land it owns south of 10th.

That's a ton of new units in a very short period of time, and almost certainly most of them will be filled with younger people. It's really to fun to think about how that critical mass and the streetcar will spur even further development and really transform the central core.

Teo9969
10-07-2013, 01:54 PM
The Metropolitan immediately makes this area a viable entertainment district.

4566

This is so obviously the best chance OKC has at a Premier entertainment district in this city. It has already started with everything on 9th street + Peloton.

AP
10-07-2013, 01:54 PM
Hearing there will be another big one on 10th between Fassler Hall / Dust Bowl and Hadden Hall

Are you referring to the midtown lot at 10th and Hudson? Have you heard any details about it?

Pete
10-07-2013, 01:57 PM
Are you referring to the midtown lot at 10th and Hudson? Have you heard any details about it?

Yes, that's what I meant.

Just that it will be large but probably not start for at least another year because they are so busy with 1100 & 1101 Broadway, AA Parking Garage, Hotel Marion, Mayfair Apartments, The Osler and Fassler Hall / Dust Bowl.

warreng88
10-07-2013, 02:01 PM
I am still curious if this area can withstand the onslaught of apartments going up at such a rapid pace. Level is obviously filled up and Mosaic will be in the immediate area, but with the new Maywood apartments on 4th street, then Level East, The Metropolitan, The Steelyard, I hope all this growth can be sustained.

Teo9969
10-07-2013, 02:04 PM
I am still curious if this area can withstand the onslaught of apartments going up at such a rapid pace. Level is obviously filled up and Mosaic will be in the immediate area, but with the new Maywood apartments on 4th street, then Level East, The Metropolitan, The Steelyard, I hope all this growth can be sustained.

If I remember correctly, these complexes have some pretty long waiting lists.

ON EDIT: Also, there could easily be more demand down here if prices dropped and having more supply will help lower prices.

Pete
10-07-2013, 02:06 PM
All the current places have waiting lists and rents are going up, up, up...

I really think this will be a case where they will help each other rather than directly compete. The more people you get down there, the more energy and things to do.

If anything suffers, the rents will merely correct but I doubt that will happen. I think things are only going north from here, as there is still so much in terms of restaurants, bars, retail and office to come.


Remember OCU law is coming soon, the streetcar, lots of smaller office buildings in Midtown are starting to fill up, etc.

lasomeday
10-07-2013, 03:45 PM
All the current places have waiting lists and rents are going up, up, up...

I really think this will be a case where they will help each other rather than directly compete. The more people you get down there, the more energy and things to do.

If anything suffers, the rents will merely correct but I doubt that will happen. I think things are only going north from here, as there is still so much in terms of restaurants, bars, retail and office to come.


Remember OCU law is coming soon, the streetcar, lots of smaller office buildings in Midtown are starting to fill up, etc.

It will only hurt the suburban apartments.... I just see them building less or turning section 8.